Originally Posted by kyoun1e

I've got to read this site.

So what you're saying is that the ratio would remain the same...whether you're bulking fast or slow. That would seem to make sense.

I guess what I'm recognizing is the "risk" to your non-professional type who doesn't quite have the discipline to "shift gears" after a fast bulk and into a cutting phase. I've got to think there are a ton of novices out there who bulk and then unfortunately stay bulky due to their lack of discipline.

Just seems like it would be easier to bulk slowly and then maybe back off slightly if you aren't happy with the fat gain vs. bulking and then really having to cut big time. yep, your on the money. Lyle reccomends cutting once you hit the 15%bf mark, as above this level you dont partition your calories very well.

In my mind, staying just a couple hundred calories above maintenance could potentially reduce that risk.

KY

Originally Posted by kyoun1e

Thanks much.

I've been trying to "find" my maintenace for two months now. I re-jiggered my diet starting in Feb. I've had a hard time ratcheting up the calories to encourage muscle growth due to a lousy diet for years. For Feb, I averaged 2,782 calories -- I gained nothing. Then in March, I upped this to 3,200 -- again, I gained nothing. My weigh has pretty much remained constant at 208.

So, it's April 1. I'm thinking of bumping it up to 3,400 and seeing if this can start the gaining process. Even if it's just a little, fine. Slow is fine. I don't want to gain too much fat.

We'll see how the body responds to 3,400 for a week.

210 lbs by May 1?

KY

Originally Posted by kyoun1e

Got leaner while over maintenance?

I don't get it.

What's odd, to answer your question, I do feel a bit leaner. Definitely stronger. Even though I'm at the same weight.

Originally Posted by kyoun1e

Got leaner while over maintenance?

I don't get it.

What's odd, to answer your question, I do feel a bit leaner. Definitely stronger. Even though I'm at the same weight.

Originally Posted by danzik17

You won't lose fat while over maintenance for the most part. What most people are referring to as getting leaner on a slow bulk is maintaining your body fat while putting on muscle. If you maintain a constant bodyfat level but increase muscle then your BF % has decreased, hence you have leaned out.

Originally Posted by kyoun1e

From Lyle McDonald's literature:

"If you use the fat loss variant, you should be losing a pound or more of fat per week, while gaining some muscle. At the very least you’ll maintain muscle without loss which can be an improvement for most people. "

Losing fat and gaining muscle?

That's a hell of a claim. Again, something I keep hearing is impossible from the "Make a choice...cut or bulk...crowd."

This doesn't sound like a bulking diet though that's for sure. I'm surprised I haven't seen more about UD2 on these threads more. The promise of this diet is great. Would be very interested in hearing more.

For now, I'm going to try and identify the 200-300 calories above maintenance level and continue to train in April. Maybe the UD2 would be the perfect switch come May to lean out and gain muscle for summer.

KY

Originally Posted by danzik17

What you're saying is true. You cannot gain muscle while in a caloric deficit. What you maybe haven't realized is that for 1-2 days each week of UD2.0, you are eating WAY over maintenance (I eat over double mine). Think of it as putting a mini-bulk at the end of each week of dieting.

Speaking from experience, I started UD2.0 at 168 and I am still at 168 roughly. But I am a leaner 168.

Originally Posted by kyoun1e

So the net-net at the end of the week sounds like you are eating over maintenance...no?
You have certain amount of carbs that are required once you do the math. I can help on that after you show me your initial setup.

But the net result would be different than your normal bulk.

I obviously need o read the book.

This thread is going off topic at this point, but a couple more questions on UD2:

1. Is the diet strict? In other words, do you need to change your life to deal with it?
A given measurement of how strict the diet is, is an opinionated statement, which I would fail to answer because I dont know your lifestyle. I own a gym, have a family and I'm a social person. I loved it because it was structured.
I will say it didnt affect me much, however there times where self control was needed.


2. Workout Routine: Full body? 3-4 days per week?
Full body, four times a week, different rep schemes each time.

From the sounds of it, this diet/routine sounds like the perfect plan for somebody who has already bulked up, but now wants to maintain, get ripped, and if they're lucky, gain muscle mass.
It can work either way. I did for cutting for my last contest and did it as a bulk. I should add that even though Lyle didnt mention it in his book, you NEED to use digestive enzymes because of the sheer quantity of carbs.


KY

Originally Posted by juggernaut

in your example, you're adding more calories. That's it. be more specific.