Fat loss diet [Forum Archive]

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Fat loss diet

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Posted by: sagejx

Hey!

I am 17 years old,about 18% bf and wanna get down to about 10%,with min. mass loss.
I've been training for almost 8 months and I've lost quite a lot of weight but these last layers of fat just won't go away!

Here's my diet:

7am: cottage cheese+bread+tomatoes
10am(at school) : sandwich made of {chicken breast+bread} + almonds
12am(at school): sandwich made of {chicken breast+bread} + banana
3pm: chicken breast+cheese+veggies
6pm(pre-workout): omlette+almonds
8pm(post-workout): protein shake
---
total: aprox. 2200calories, 207g protein, 122g fat,100g carb, 15g fiber

How does it look?THanks!

Posted by: Jodi

It looks like an awful lot of bread. How about switching 1st meal to Oatmeal and get rid of the bread.

What kind of bread are you eating?

Posted by: Unreal

Do you burn more then 2200 calories a day? If so you will lose weight on that diet. If not adjust.

Posted by: sagejx

It somewhat sucks because I can't take much food with me ,to school.Here's the info about the bread I eat;/100g : 250 cal,9g protein,5g fiber,50g carbs.

I should be eating around 3.000cal/day to maintain my current w8,I guess I cut enough calories

Posted by: Jodi

But what kind of bread is it?

Posted by: sagejx

It's some multigrain bread made in Europe,I doubt that the name would ring any bells.

By the way, an oatmeal breakfast would contain lots of carbs(I'd just add more grams of carb to my diet) and not so many g of protein , as the cottage cheese does! Should I mix some egg whites in that oatmeal?

Posted by: sagejx

oh snap weekend carb-load due to being somewhat sick

Still waiting for ur feedback!

Posted by: Built

If you eat fewer calories than you require you will lose weight. Your protein and fat are sufficient.

Train short and heavy 3-4 times a week using heavy compound movements (squats, deads, bench, cleans, chins). Follow your workouts with 20 minutes of moderate-intensity cardio if you like.

Posted by: the nut

What do you weigh?

Posted by: sagejx

84kg and 1,83m

Posted by: Built

Quote:

Originally Posted by sagejx

84kg and 1,83m

185 lbs and 6' tall for the 'Merkans.

sagejx, your maintenance has to be close to 2800 calories a day, right? 2200 will work fine.

You are trying to get down to 10% from 18% - assuming you're right about your bodyfat level, you have about 152 lbs of lean mass and you'll hit 10% at around 170 lbs, so let's shoot for that for now, okay? You're going to be fairly thin, but shouldn't look scrawny at that weight and at your age.

You planning a bulk for the fall?

Posted by: sagejx

Actually I don't know whether I'll bulk or not

I'm and endomorph-mezomorph so a bit of muscle mass comes naturally

Being fit is the ultimate goal!
here are my stats(I haven't grown at all in these 8 months):

neck: 41cm
chest: 104cm
abs: 90cm
biceps: 36cm
calves: 42cm
quads:56cm

Posted by: Built

You've got good calves, but your tummy holds your bodyfat, doesn't it? Yep, you're a boy.

Get that off, and then slowly add some size in the fall. You're going to feel skinny once you get the tummy off, I guarantee it.

Posted by: the nut

Quote:

Originally Posted by sagejx

Hey!

I am 17 years old,about 18% bf and wanna get down to about 10%,with min. mass loss.
I've been training for almost 8 months and I've lost quite a lot of weight but these last layers of fat just won't go away!

Here's my diet:

7am: cottage cheese+bread+tomatoes
10am(at school) : sandwich made of {chicken breast+bread} + almonds
12am(at school): sandwich made of {chicken breast+bread} + banana
3pm: chicken breast+cheese+veggies
6pm(pre-workout): omlette+almonds
8pm(post-workout): protein shake
---
total: aprox. 2200calories, 207g protein, 122g fat,100g carb, 15g fiber

How does it look?THanks!

Personally, I'd go with about 2400 cal/ day. 230g pro 185g carb 85g fat

Cut the bread and almonds at 10am and make it a big salad. Something like field greens, spinach, tomato, cuke, mushrooms, small amount of cheese or nuts with olive oil based dressing.

Put some oats and some fruit yogurt in the PWO shake, minimal fat.

Try to burn around 400-500 per workout 4 -5 times per week.

I like to go with circuit training when cutting, 4 times a week. Mostly compound movements, each muscle 2 times a week. I finish every workout with with 15 mins of high intensity intervals on the treadmill or at the track. On off days I usually walk at a decent pace for an hour. One day a week I do nothing.

Good Luck.

Posted by: Built

The nut, what do you do on this plan to prevent muscle-loss? Because I'm not seeing it. Circuits four days a week while running a singnificant caloric deficit... he'd lose more fat if he trained less and ate less.

Posted by: sagejx

Here's something odd: I gained almost 2 kilos in 2 days of not eating straight

I hope it's only water

Posted by: the nut

There's no way he saving muscle on 100 carb a day and no carbs after workout, he has to up his carbs if he wants to build muscle. Do the math. Anaerobic and cardio workout is only about 400 - 500 cal per workout. It's a go hard, and go home workout to raise metabolism and target fat. And since he's been eating 2200 calories a day, but not loisng fat, I'm willing to bet his metabolism is slow right now.

Posted by: Built

Quote:

Originally Posted by the nut

There's no way he saving muscle on 100 carb a day and no carbs after workout, he has to up his carbs if he wants to build muscle. Do the math. Anaerobic and cardio workout is only about 400 - 500 cal per workout. It's a go hard, and go home workout to raise metabolism and target fat. And since he's been eating 2200 calories a day, but not loisng fat, I'm willing to bet his metabolism is slow right now.

I save muscle just fine on less than 100g carb a day and no carb post workout, and I've got a LOT less test than you two.

He's also not building ANY muscle, carbs or not - he's CUTTING.

Cardio won't raise metabolism once you're done - but you're right it WILL burn fat. Unfortunately, it will also burn muscle. He needs something to maintain muscle to go along with this, and the way you're suggesting, there's catabolism without anabolism.

Seriously, you're better off dieting the weight off, and training short and heavy to maintain muscle while you ride out the deficit.

Posted by: sagejx

By the way,after I finish the workout I have a protein shake and after that sleep.Should I also eat let's say a protein bar-9pm? Here's the info about this unpopular local protein bar : 280cal,20g protein,24g carb.

Posted by: Built

I'm really not a fan of protein bars - they're shitty candy bars with a bit of protein.

How about food? I usually eat cottage cheese with a few nuts and a chunk of fruit at bedtime.

Posted by: bigsahm21

First of all...

Cottage cheese + Bread + Tomatoes?

Haha but seriously, listen to what Built says she knows her shit. Only thing I would do is target your carbs more around your workout, at least pre-workout. You don't need carbs in the AM, contrary to popular belief, if you're working out in the PM.

Posted by: Built

Oooh, yes, good call on the carbs. Before and or immediately after you train, depending on how you feel. For some, after works perfectly. For others, carbs after training "turns on" appetite. Try it both ways, see how you feel.

Posted by: sagejx

I could eat carbs all day long

What's wrong with Cottage cheese + Bread + Tomatoes ?

yummy...

;post-workout - I guess I could eat a fruit!

hm I think I should eat the omlette+almonds at 7am(12g carb) and cottage cheese+bread(27g carb) at 6pm .

Posted by: sagejx

update: this is getting really odd; 4 days not eating str8- almost 3 kilos gained ! damn

Posted by: Built

Water.

Start drinking a gallon of it a day. It'll help you release the bloat.

Posted by: the nut

OK.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

I save muscle just fine on less than 100g carb a day and no carb post workout, and I've got a LOT less test than you two.

I think you're a bad comparison to him. But regardless of the carb debate, aren't we really talking calories here. In the grand scheme of things thats what matters. Sufficient protein, carb, and fat can effect diets in their own specific ways, but calorie surplus when bulking or deficit when cutting is the main goal. I chose to up them for available energy during the day.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

He's also not building ANY muscle, carbs or not - he's CUTTING.

Semantics. It's pretty common knowledge that without the use of anabolics, it's almost impossible to gain muscle mass while dropping body fat at the same time, unless you are an obese beginner. I wasn't suggesting he was on a bulk.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

Cardio won't raise metabolism once you're done - but you're right it WILL burn fat. Unfortunately, it will also burn muscle. He needs something to maintain muscle to go along with this, and the way you're suggesting, there's catabolism without anabolism.

From the studies I've read about, you couldn't be more wrong. There plenty of studies cited here. I have never read that HIIT is any more catabolic than moderate cardio. And there are a lot of articles suggest anabolic properties of HIIT, however I have not seen specific studies done. I can tell you my legs and abs have never looked better, since I started HIIT. This is why I would suggested more slow digesting carbs and fat, which research shows, will cause him to burn carbohydrate and fat for fuel, while "saving" as much muscle as possible.

I calculated his maintenance at 2400 calories, medium level BMR plus activity for his weight. But I think when you look what I suggested compared to your suggestions, they're not that different.

He's at 2200 cal / day. Go with 4 workouts / week followed by 20 mins moderate cardio. I'm put the energy output at about 200 cal/ workout, 40 - 45 mins. So that's 15,400 calories in and 800 calories out via exercise, every week. Not counting BMR thats 14,600 calories / week.

I suggested 2400 cal / day. Go with 4 circuits / week followed by 15 mins HIIT. Let's say 250 cal / workout, 30-35 mins. With the 2 one hour walks that would be approx 700 calories. That's 16,800 calories in and 1,700 calories out. Grand total of about 15,100.

Our suggestions were off by 70 calories a day, and with the energy expenditure in mine, that extra won't go to waste. I do believe once he gets going on this program he would need to up the calories to 2800 - 3000 calories, due to an increase in BMR.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

Seriously, you're better off dieting the weight off, and training short and heavy to maintain muscle while you ride out the deficit.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

There are certainly more people who cut the way you're stating, but I'm not fan. I personally worry about a decrease in metabolism when using big calorie deficits. I prefer a moderate, if any calorie deficit and intense, metabolism increasing workouts. Reason being, when I come of diets I easily keep gains and results.

I assumed he'd been doing this diet while losing the weight he mentioned. I was looking to give him a kick start geared to attack belly fat. If that's not the case and you're just starting your original plan, then give it a shot. It's definitely one way of going about things. Whichever way you chose, I wouldn't worry about a minimal loss of muscle. Your main goal is to lose the gut. So cut now, and clean bulk in the winter, as built suggested.

Train well!

Posted by: Built

Quote:

Originally Posted by the nut

Eat fewer calories than you require, you will lose weight.

You may find carbs energizing, but hypocaloric, while overfat and relatively insulin-resistant (we all become more insulin sensitive as we lean out) they tend to promote hunger.

Quote:

Originally Posted by the nut

I was responding to this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by the nut

he has to up his carbs if he wants to build muscle.

I merely reminded you that he's cutting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by the nut

My sweet, save it for the choir - I just published an article, "Daredevils are Shredded", that goes into excruciating detail on the benefits of HIIT.

I'm also a big fan of FI - I've chatted with him for years.

The studies cited aren't mentioned in the context of running a significant caloric deficit.

I wanted to know what your plan is for muscle-retention. I do HIIT while cutting and on a deficit, myself. Hell, those are my abs in my 'tar, and HIIT was part of that success.

But so was eating a shitload of protein, sufficient fats, not running too strong of a caloric deficit and oh yeah, lifting heavy assed weights four days a week in low rep, low volume workouts.

THAT was what I meant. You had him doing circuits and HIIT, which is great, but won't preserve muscle mass under the deficit he's running.

Quote:

Originally Posted by the nut

I calculated his maintenance at 2400 calories, medium level BMR plus activity for his weight. But I think when you look what I suggested compared to your suggestions, they're not that different.

I don't calculate maintenance, I track it. But MY maintenance is 2200 and I'm a middle-aged woman who weighs a buck forty soaking wet. 2400 seems low.

Quote:

Originally Posted by the nut

He's at 2200 cal / day. Go with 4 workouts / week followed by 20 mins moderate cardio. I'm put the energy output at about 200 cal/ workout, 40 - 45 mins. So that's 15,400 calories in and 800 calories out via exercise, every week. Not counting BMR thats 14,600 calories / week.

I suggested 2400 cal / day. Go with 4 circuits / week followed by 15 mins HIIT. Let's say 250 cal / workout, 30-35 mins. With the 2 one hour walks that would be approx 700 calories. That's 16,800 calories in and 1,700 calories out. Grand total of about 15,100.

Our suggestions were off by 70 calories a day, and with the energy expenditure in mine, that extra won't go to waste. I do believe once he gets going on this program he would need to up the calories to 2800 - 3000 calories, due to an increase in BMR.

How about he just eats less, keeps the protein high, keeps the fats as high and the carbs as low as he needs for satiety, trains low-rep and heavy and sees how his losses come along before we toss the whole shooting match at him, hey?

I never consider the caloric deficit due to exercise. I honestly pretend it burns NOTHING. It's easier to tweak plans that way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by the nut

You may not be a fan, but the research disagrees with you.

L. McDonald mentions this in Rapid Fat Loss:
"Exercise and weight loss
You’ve probably heard, read or seen that you must exercise to lose weight/fat, or that
exercising will drastically improve the amount or rate of weight or fat loss. It’s important,
once again, to make a distinction between weight and fat loss, as you’ll see in a second.
People obviously can and do lose weight all the time without exercise (keeping the weight
off is a separate issue I’ll come back to below) so exercise certainly isn’t required by any
stretch. Whether or not programs that include exercise are optimal, better or more
effective is an entirely different debate.
The question I want to address here is whether or not exercise has much of an effect on
the rate of weight loss. For the most part, exercise has, at best, a small effect. Some studies
find that it increases the total weight loss slightly while most find little to no effect. As I’ll
mention below, some studies find that exercise can actually reduce the total weight loss
(note: as discussed previously in this book, not the same as fat loss)."

He goes on to suggest lifting weights to preserve LBM while running a deficit works the best. Note that he says this under the context of losing fat as quickly as possible - so even, or especially under a very strong deficit, heavy lifting provides the stimulus required to maintain muscle.

My question to you was simply to ask what you intended to add to ensure our friend here doesn't lose any more muscle than he has to.

Personally, I find it a LOT easier to just eat less than to try to exercise it off. But then, I'm a woman. In women, appetite increases with exercise intensity.

Posted by: Jodi

Quote:

Eat fewer calories than you require, you will lose weight.

best advice you'll get! Calorie in - calorie out!

Posted by: the nut

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

My sweet, save it for the choir - I just published an article, "Daredevils are Shredded", that goes into excruciating detail on the benefits of HIIT. .

LINK?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

The studies cited aren't mentioned in the context of running a significant caloric deficit.

THAT was what I meant. You had him doing circuits and HIIT, which is great, but won't preserve muscle mass under the deficit he's running.

Agreed. I was attempting to put him at maint. I used 13x his bodyweight for a lower BMR, you used 15x for a higher BMR. Also, why I think he's to need more calories the further along he went with this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

I don't calculate maintenance, I track it. But MY maintenance is 2200 and I'm a middle-aged woman who weighs a buck forty soaking wet. 2400 seems low.

Again, I had to guess on this, neither of us know exactly without knowing for sure. From the looks of your avi, you probably have a much higher BMR, relative to his and your bodyweights.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

Which is why I said this.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by the nut

I assumed he'd been doing this diet while losing the weight he mentioned. I was looking to give him a kick start geared to attack belly fat. If that's not the case and you're just starting your original plan, then give it a shot. It's definitely one way of going about things. Whichever way you chose, I wouldn't worry about a minimal loss of muscle. Your main goal is to lose the gut. So cut now, and clean bulk in the winter, as built suggested.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

I never consider the caloric deficit due to exercise. I honestly pretend it burns NOTHING. It's easier to tweak plans that way.

And, it works for you. So why would you change.

Quote:

Originally Posted by calalily1972

best advice you'll get! Calorie in - calorie out!

I agree 100%, but calorie out includes exercise, no?

Posted by: Built

Quote:

Originally Posted by the nut

And, it works for you. So why would you change.

It works in the worst case. I was fat for twenty years while I tried to exercise it off. If this works for me, it'll work for ANYBODY.

Quote:

Originally Posted by the nut

I agree 100%, but calorie out includes exercise, no?

Sort of. Once you're doing it regularly, it's a sunk cost. I don't consider it at all. I mean, it does create a deficit, but less and less over time - certainly while running a deficit, you have to watch it with the volume. Simply put you diet off the weight, and do stuff to maintain lean mass. If you choose to exercise off some of the weight, you better really pay attention to the stuff that maintains lean mass - keep protein high, don't run too strong of a caloric deficit, lift heavy and short at least a few times a week… (and/or run AAS!)

Being young and male helps a lot, too. All that test…so awesome for recovery and muscle-retention... <sigh>

Quote:

Originally Posted by the nut

LINK?

It's in my sig, hon.

Posted by: Robertooo

Im a 26yr old male and have been on Lyle McDonald's Rapid Fat Loss diet (which Built refers to) over the past 6 weeks. Starting weight 209lbs with a body fat of 32%. Im now at 182lbs with a body fat of 23%. I know body fat percentages because i have done DEXA scans. Thats 4.5lbs/wk. The diet is high protein, low fat/carbs. Not using any supplements either.

No cardio is done on the diet, just two low-rep high-weight workouts a week as detailed in the diet. When you are running such a calorie deficit the marginal impact of cardio is really irrelevant. I also do a weekly refeed (ie, once a week, 5 hours long) to partially rebalance metabolism, and help maintain the LBM.

Posted by: Built

The shit works. How's your hunger and your energy, Robertooo?

Posted by: Robertooo

My hunger is fine, I don't have any cravings. Typically I will have egg whites in a protein shake in the morning, then mid morning a big bowl of broccoli (i love the stuff) that gets me to lunch where i have chicken/prawns, then mid arvo i have some celery sticks, dinner i have more prawns/chicken and then at night i have casein protein + egg whites in a shake. I am drinking a lot, at least 1.5L every 2-3 hours during the day and i will have a few cups of green tea maybe a coffee as well. Also have a multi, 10 fish oil tabs, and calcium - when i said i dont have supplements i meant no ECA stacks.

Energy is also fine, im pumping out weights at the gym that ive never done before. I find it hard to sleep at night because I have too much energy!

Posted by: sagejx

I'm also considering this diet:

7am: oatmeal+omlette
10am: cottage cheese+bread
workout,then shake
1pm: chicken breast+banana
3pm: chicken breast+veggies+peanuts
6pm: chicken breast+almonds
9pm: yogurt
----------------------------
aprox. 2400cal,250g protein,100g fats,150g carb

Posted by: Built

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robertooo

My hunger is fine, I don't have any cravings. Typically I will have egg whites in a protein shake in the morning, then mid morning a big bowl of broccoli (i love the stuff) that gets me to lunch where i have chicken/prawns, then mid arvo i have some celery sticks, dinner i have more prawns/chicken and then at night i have casein protein + egg whites in a shake. I am drinking a lot, at least 1.5L every 2-3 hours during the day and i will have a few cups of green tea maybe a coffee as well. Also have a multi, 10 fish oil tabs, and calcium - when i said i dont have supplements i meant no ECA stacks.

Energy is also fine, im pumping out weights at the gym that ive never done before. I find it hard to sleep at night because I have too much energy!

Isn't it ridiculous? I hear this so often from people doing PSMF. So strange.
Glad it's working so well for you!

Quote:

Originally Posted by sagejx

I'm also considering this diet:

7am: oatmeal+omlette
10am: cottage cheese+bread
workout,then shake
1pm: chicken breast+banana
3pm: chicken breast+veggies+peanuts
6pm: chicken breast+almonds
9pm: yogurt
----------------------------
aprox. 2400cal,250g protein,100g fats,150g carb

That'll work if it's comfy for you. Get in a few more servings of vegetables. Maybe some broccoli with your AM omelette, a salad with your 1 PM chicken...

Posted by: sagejx

yeah I'll eat veggies whenever I can

and I must create a chicken farm as soon as possible

Posted by: Robertooo

Don't forget the alternative protein sources! I've recently gone into calamari + prawns! You can have more than just chicken

Built - yeah its fantastic. Im going into a 2 week break at the end of this week, and will continue on the diet for another 4 weeks post that. Hopefully then im at 15% bodyfat and will then move onto UD2.0 until i hit 11-10% bodyfat. I wanted to know, do you have any experience with a bulk on UD2.0?

Posted by: sagejx

After having read the "Too Much Protein, Eaten Along With Fat, May Lead To Insulin Resistance" article I kinda changed the whole plan

meh:

7am: oatmeal+banana
10am: cottage cheese+bread
workout,then shake
1pm: chicken breast+banana
3pm: omlette+bread
6pm: chicken breast+almonds
9pm: yogurt
----------------------------
aprox. 2400cal,210g protein,80g fats,230g carb

too much carb?I think that it should work pretty fine,I normally need about 425g of carb.This way I'll avoide those moments when the need for carb makes me suffer! Tryin' to keep stuff balanced...

Posted by: the nut

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robertooo

Im a 26yr old male and have been on Lyle McDonald's Rapid Fat Loss diet (which Built refers to) over the past 6 weeks. Starting weight 209lbs with a body fat of 32%. Im now at 182lbs with a body fat of 23%. I know body fat percentages because i have done DEXA scans. Thats 4.5lbs/wk. The diet is high protein, low fat/carbs. Not using any supplements either.

No cardio is done on the diet, just two low-rep high-weight workouts a week as detailed in the diet. When you are running such a calorie deficit the marginal impact of cardio is really irrelevant. I also do a weekly refeed (ie, once a week, 5 hours long) to partially rebalance metabolism, and help maintain the LBM.

How much of a deficit are you running?

Posted by: Built

Quote:

Originally Posted by sagejx

After having read the "Too Much Protein, Eaten Along With Fat, May Lead To Insulin Resistance" article I kinda changed the whole plan

...

You are dieting. You WANT insulin resistance when you're cutting - it protects lean mass.

Posted by: sagejx

Hey guys.

I've been doing a lot of tests to see my protein needs and most of them say that a 17 yr old male, weighing 186lbs, 6 feet tall,that does moderate weight training /3 times a week should be having about 170g of protein/day ;

What do you guys think? I do not do any other exhausting activites,except for moderate weight training 3 times a week;

Thanks again

Posted by: Built

Tests? What kinds of tests?

Posted by: nkira

You mean formula's & number crunching, Right? For the test's DEXA is only one that gives accurate results, easy & economical too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sagejx

Hey guys.

I've been doing a lot of tests to see my protein needs and most of them say that a 17 yr old male, weighing 186lbs, 6 feet tall,that does moderate weight training /3 times a week should be having about 170g of protein/day ;

What do you guys think? I do not do any other exhausting activites,except for moderate weight training 3 times a week;

Thanks again

Posted by: nkira

Great Progress man

got to try Lyle McDonald's Rapid Fat Loss diet, wonder if I can do that with the routine built gave me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robertooo

Posted by: sagejx

Mostly everything you can find on google under the search "daily protein calculator". Built,what do you think?What should my ratios like?I am mostly sedentary,except for those 3 days.

Posted by: Built

Quote:

Originally Posted by nkira

Great Progress man

got to try Lyle McDonald's Rapid Fat Loss diet, wonder if I can do that with the routine built gave me.

NO YOU CAN NOT.

Please read Lyle's book. He's very clear on this topic.

sagejx, it's all in the link in my sig on "getting started".

Posted by: P-funk

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

NO YOU CAN NOT.

Please read Lyle's book. He's very clear on this topic.

sagejx, it's all in the link in my sig on "getting started".

Agree 100%. Lyle's books are highly specific with regard to his recommendation for what you do - diet and exercise - and how you do it. It is best to stick to his plan and not cherry pick from a bunch of different sources, as there is good reason for why he set it up that way.

patrick

Posted by: nkira

Accepted 100%

Posted by: sagejx

meh my latest routine looks like this:

7am: milk+grain cereals+banana
10am: cottage cheese+bread
1pm: chicken breast+bread
4pm:chicken breast+bread+almonds
7pm: boiled eggs+bread
------
2400 cal, 215g protein,220g carb,76g fat

*yes ,I like eating bread

Posted by: Built

LOL - get in a few servings of green leafies, okay?

Macro-wise, you're fine. How do you feel, and what are your goals?

Posted by: danzik17

Just make sure it's multigrain or whole wheat bread, not that white bread garbage. No nutrients whatsoever in white bread for the most part and it digests SO quickly you'll be hungry again in 20 minutes.

Posted by: nkira

I just hate white bread, once you get used to whole wheat or the multigrain you'll never touch the white one's.

Posted by: sagejx

Still trying to lower my bf,once this Easter carb-eating mania is over I'll be on the right track

bran bread for the win

Posted by: C6zo6

Quote:

Originally Posted by the nut

OK.....

I think you're a bad comparison to him. But regardless of the carb debate, aren't we really talking calories here. In the grand scheme of things thats what matters. Sufficient protein, carb, and fat can effect diets in their own specific ways, but calorie surplus when bulking or deficit when cutting is the main goal. I chose to up them for available energy during the day.

Semantics. It's pretty common knowledge that without the use of anabolics, it's almost impossible to gain muscle mass while dropping body fat at the same time, unless you are an obese beginner. I wasn't suggesting he was on a bulk.

From the studies I've read about, you couldn't be more wrong. There plenty of studies cited here. I have never read that HIIT is any more catabolic than moderate cardio. And there are a lot of articles suggest anabolic properties of HIIT, however I have not seen specific studies done. I can tell you my legs and abs have never looked better, since I started HIIT. This is why I would suggested more slow digesting carbs and fat, which research shows, will cause him to burn carbohydrate and fat for fuel, while "saving" as much muscle as possible.

I calculated his maintenance at 2400 calories, medium level BMR plus activity for his weight. But I think when you look what I suggested compared to your suggestions, they're not that different.

He's at 2200 cal / day. Go with 4 workouts / week followed by 20 mins moderate cardio. I'm put the energy output at about 200 cal/ workout, 40 - 45 mins. So that's 15,400 calories in and 800 calories out via exercise, every week. Not counting BMR thats 14,600 calories / week.

I suggested 2400 cal / day. Go with 4 circuits / week followed by 15 mins HIIT. Let's say 250 cal / workout, 30-35 mins. With the 2 one hour walks that would be approx 700 calories. That's 16,800 calories in and 1,700 calories out. Grand total of about 15,100.

Our suggestions were off by 70 calories a day, and with the energy expenditure in mine, that extra won't go to waste. I do believe once he gets going on this program he would need to up the calories to 2800 - 3000 calories, due to an increase in BMR.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

There are certainly more people who cut the way you're stating, but I'm not fan. I personally worry about a decrease in metabolism when using big calorie deficits. I prefer a moderate, if any calorie deficit and intense, metabolism increasing workouts. Reason being, when I come of diets I easily keep gains and results.

I assumed he'd been doing this diet while losing the weight he mentioned. I was looking to give him a kick start geared to attack belly fat. If that's not the case and you're just starting your original plan, then give it a shot. It's definitely one way of going about things. Whichever way you chose, I wouldn't worry about a minimal loss of muscle. Your main goal is to lose the gut. So cut now, and clean bulk in the winter, as built suggested.

Train well!

Your suggesting so much work for nothing...Why not simply follow what built has mentioned and DIET while on a CUT. What is the point in eating the same, but hoping you are burning off a certain amount of calories to lose body fat? You will never know exactly how many calories your burning through exercise...But, you will be able to find out how many calories you need to lose, or maintain your current weight. This is obviously a much easier approach in peoples everyday lives. Not everyone has time to go lift and do some cross fit training and run 1.5 miles to burn those extra 180 calories!! lol...Dieting seems so much more simple...

I don't think you need to worry about dieting a few hundred calories being metabolic...

Also, with all these numbers your posting about HIS maintenance calories, etc...If he ISN'T losing weight, why would you tell him to eat more? You don't know what his maintenance calories are, your not him. Just because you researched it and named the typical numbers, doesn't mean HIS body losses or gains weight with those calculations. They are simple guidelines to get one started. Not factually evident results for mankind to follow.

Everyone is different and has to experiment on themselves to find out his/her caloric goals.

Why you would train harder and not diet to lose weight is beyond me...That's like having the choice to run a mile in a straight line, or doing it zigzag...

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Fat loss diet

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