2009 Boston Red Sox [Forum Archive]

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2009 Boston Red Sox

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Posted by: soxmuscle

Projected Roster:

Boston

CF Jacoby Ellsbury
2B Dustin Pedroia
DH David Ortiz
1B Kevin Youkilis
RF J.D. Drew
LF Jason Bay
3B Mike Lowell
SS Jed Lowrie
C Jason Varitek

Bench: Rocco Baldelli, Chris Carter, Nick Green, George Kottaras

Josh Beckett
Jon Lester
Daisuke Matsuzaka
Tim Wakefield
Brad Penny

Jonathan Papelbon
Justin Masterson
Hideki Okajima
Takashi Saito
Manny Delcarmen
Javier Lopez
Ramon Ramirez

Julio Lugo takes over for Green when he gets back from his injury.

Posted by: soxmuscle

Jed Lowrie hit a grand slam off Oliver Perez in Boston's 9-3 win over the Mets on Saturday.
Lowrie ends the spring as Boston's best hitter, finishing at .343/.400/.657 with three homers and 16 RBI. Hopefully, that would have been enough to earn him a starting job regardless of what happened with Julio Lugo. If he keeps producing, he deserves to play over Lugo once the veteran makes it back in mid-April.

***

Min0, take notes.

Posted by: min0 lee

That was against Oliver Perez, an average pitcher.

He has good games but then he has his games where he can't get anyone out.

Not discrediting Lowrie but Perez may be sent to the minors soon if he keeps this up.

Posted by: soxmuscle

I'm just busting your balls...

Posted by: I Are Baboon

Opening Day postponed to 4:05 tomorrow.

Eff the rain and eff Paul O'Neil.

Posted by: IainDaniel

The one and only good thing about a shitty dome.

Posted by: calalily1972

And I'm working from home today so I could watch it

Posted by: IainDaniel

Trade you your rain for my snow

Posted by: min0 lee

All is not lost, I believe the Yankee game will go on today if it stops raining.

Posted by: shiznit2169

The first week or two of baseball should ALWAYS open up in the south/west and dome stadiums. April is known for rain so these schedule makers are morons.

The sox should have opened up at the Trop in Tampa and then we'd actually have a game to watch. Now i have to wait another 24 hours.

Posted by: I Are Baboon

Quote:

Originally Posted by min0 lee

All is not lost, I believe the Yankee game will go on today if it stops raining.

I am actually looking forward to watching it. That's one good thing about the Yankees reloading...it gives me something to watch when the Red Sox are not on.

Posted by: min0 lee

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Are Baboon

I am actually looking forward to watching it. That's one good thing about the Yankees reloading...it gives me something to watch when the Red Sox are not on.

Posted by: I Are Baboon

Quote:

Originally Posted by min0 lee

Hey, I didn't say I cheer for them. Quite the opposite, in fact.

Posted by: min0 lee

CC looks like a gamble long term.....if he lets his weight get out of control I see big problems.

Posted by: calalily1972

Grrr.... I'm so pissed right now. I would have actually gone to work today and taken tomorrow out if I'd known

Posted by: min0 lee

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiznit2169

The first week or two of baseball should ALWAYS open up in the south/west and dome stadiums. April is known for rain so these schedule makers are morons.

The sox should have opened up at the Trop in Tampa and then we'd actually have a game to watch. Now i have to wait another 24 hours.

It's been raining here all day long, TV has to much power...this is their idea.

Posted by: soxmuscle

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiznit2169

The first week or two of baseball should ALWAYS open up in the south/west and dome stadiums. April is known for rain so these schedule makers are morons.

The sox should have opened up at the Trop in Tampa and then we'd actually have a game to watch. Now i have to wait another 24 hours.

It makes no sense to me either.

Posted by: min0 lee

Quote:

Originally Posted by soxmuscle

It makes no sense to me either.

This is the Red Sox you are talking about.

Posted by: soxmuscle

The schedule makers as a whole. Every year, the way it's done seems silly.

I'm watching the Reds/Mets game right now and it looks like a mid-December Bengals/Jets game with what the fans are wearing.

Posted by: min0 lee

Quote:

• A reminder that Opening Day doesn't always come with warm weather. The season opener between the White Sox and Royals was postponed Sunday because the forecast in Chicago called for snow Monday. Mark Buehrle will have to wait another day before taking the mound for the White Sox.

Isn't the weather better in KC?

Posted by: I Are Baboon

2-4, soxmuscle. WTF?

Posted by: min0 lee

Doesn't mean anything, it's still early.

Posted by: IainDaniel

zactly... Jays are 5-2 and will be lucky to finish above 500

Posted by: I Are Baboon

2-5 and Jon Lester has gotten lit up twice.

WTF.

Posted by: I Are Baboon

I have both Jon Lester and Chien Ming Wang on my fantasy team. Yesterday was not a good day.

Posted by: min0 lee

The Rays look tough..

Posted by: soxmuscle

Boy, what a good time to be without a lap top.

There's some definite drama that we're missing out on here with me on the DL, Min0

Posted by: min0 lee

Oh yeah.

Posted by: soxmuscle

I will say though...

I'm not terribly concerned with the way the seasons started. Obviously, I'd prefer them to be 8-0, pitching lights out and scoring runs at will, but that isn't in the deck of cards.

Still 154 more games left - win one in Oakland, get back on the right track and sweep Baltimore at home and their right back at five hundred.

Finally, the Beckett suspension from today is a complete fucking joke. Joe West, the umpire who called the game, said this:

“He took too long delivering the ball,” said crew chief Joe West. “Abreu called time, which is normal. Then Beckett, in the middle of throwing the ball, threw the ball. They should throw the ball, rather than risk an injury.

“Did he throw it up and in? Yeah. Do we believe he threw it at Abreu? No. Would we have warned him had both benches not emptied? Probably not, but because both benches emptied, we did issue a warning,” explained West.

...And then Yankee fan, Bob Watson who somehow still has his cock so deep inside Bud Selig despite showing ridiculous bias on numerous occasions goes against the opinions of the umpires who called the game and doled out a suspension only to Beckett and the Red Sox.

Beckett has had one lackluster inning in his two starts this year, but making him angry and hungry really doesn't bother me.

Posted by: soxmuscle

And last but not least, Derek Jeter has been absolutely pitiful thus far which is just icing on the cake.

.207 .258 .310 .568
This line just cracks me up - you'd think he'd be leading off for the Red Sox with those kind of disgusting numbers.

Posted by: min0 lee

Quote:

Originally Posted by soxmuscle

Finally, the Beckett suspension from today is a complete fucking joke. Joe West, the umpire who called the game, said this:

“He took too long delivering the ball,” said crew chief Joe West. “Abreu called time, which is normal. Then Beckett, in the middle of throwing the ball, threw the ball. They should throw the ball, rather than risk an injury.

“Did he throw it up and in? Yeah. Do we believe he threw it at Abreu? No. Would we have warned him had both benches not emptied? Probably not, but because both benches emptied, we did issue a warning,” explained West.

It was definitly intentional.

Quote:

Originally Posted by soxmuscle

And last but not least, Derek Jeter has been absolutely pitiful thus far which is just icing on the cake.

.207 .258 .310 .568
This line just cracks me up - you'd think he'd be leading off for the Red Sox with those kind of disgusting numbers.

The Red Sox W-L record cracks me up even more.

Posted by: soxmuscle

So you think he was trying to hit Abreu in the head? Haha.

You're not allowed to make fun of the record, Iain sure. Not when the Yanks are only a game up on the Sox right now...

Posted by: min0 lee

Quote:

Originally Posted by soxmuscle

So you think he was trying to hit Abreu in the head? Haha.

You're not allowed to make fun of the record, Iain sure. Not when the Yanks are only a game up on the Sox right now...

I didn't see the throw, do you have a link.

Posted by: soxmuscle

YouTube Video

He was in the middle of the wind up when the umpire stood up and while Abreu may have muttered it, he didn't leave the batters box nor did he put up his hand to signal time.

I'm fine with the fines, but if I'm in charge, (even Yankees) I would have a hard time suspending anybody unless the situation got completely out of hand like the Pistons/Pacers game a while back.

Posted by: min0 lee

Why throw at his head?

Posted by: soxmuscle

Ha

Posted by: min0 lee

5 games is harsh, but to think that he gave him so much time because he is a Yankee is a bit loony.
He may have more of an allegiance to the Astros than the Yankees.

Posted by: min0 lee

Throw at a jerk, he's now gone but he was a good guy while he was here and in Phillie.
Beckett is an ass.

Posted by: soxmuscle

Quote:

Originally Posted by min0 lee

5 games is harsh, but to think that he gave him so much time because he is a Yankee is a bit loony.
He may have more of an allegiance to the Astros than the Yankees.

Loony? My foot.

2003: Red Sox-Yankees ALCS
On 10/12/03, tempers flared after the longtime rivals exchange beanballs in the 4th inning of ALCS Game 3 at Fenway Park. Pedro Martinez hit Karim Garcia in the shoulder with a pitch in the top of the inning. In the bottom half, Manny Ramirez took umbrage at a high fastball from Roger Clemens, barking at him and taking several steps toward the mound with bat in hand. As the benches cleared, Yankees bench coach Don Zimmer headed straight for Martinez, who was in front of Boston's dugout, and attacked him. Pedro sidestepped Zimmer, who lost his balance and toppled over, though replays suggested Martinez had pushed him down. Watson fined Martinez ($50,000), Ramirez ($25,000), Garcia ($10,000) and Zimmer ($5,000), but exonerated Clemens. Zimmer fought back tears while issuing an apology through the media prior to Game 4:
"I'm embarrassed at what happened. I'm embarrassed for the Yankees‚ the Red Sox‚ the fans‚ the umpires and my family." Watson took no action against Garcia or Yankees reliever Jeff Nelson for what Boston police described as an "unprovoked attack" on a Sox grounds crew member who was stationed in the bullpen. Yankees president Randy Levine demanded an apology from the Red Sox for a lack of security in the outfield seats, prompting derision from Red Sox CEO Larry Lucchino:
"I think that once again, perhaps an incomplete knowledge of the facts, if I can put it diplomatically, might be at the root of Mr. Levine's comments," Lucchino said. "But we'll leave it to Major League Baseball to address the inflammatory comments."

2004: A-Rod vs Tek
On 7/24/04, benches cleared at Fenway after Bronson Arroyo hit Alex Rodriguez in the left arm with an inside pitch. Rodriguez barked at Arroyo while slowly making his way to first base, then veered left off the baseline and toward the mound. When Jason Varitek stepped between them the third baseman redirected his anger toward Boston's catcher. The pair converged, with Rodriguez lunging his arms toward Varitek's head while the Sox' captain shoved his mitt into the face of his adversary. In the ensuiwng melee, Yankees pitcher Tanyon Sturtze pulled Gabe Kapler from the scrum in a choke hold, prompting Trot Nixon and David Ortiz to rush to Kapler's defense and restrain Sturtze. Umpires ejected Varitek, Kapler, Rodriguez, and New York's Kenny Lofton.
Watson doled out penalties to Varitek (4 games/$2,000), Kapler (3 games/$1,000), Nixon (3 games/$1,000), Curt Schilling ($500) and Ortiz ($500). Yankees penalized included Rodriguez (4 games/$2,000), Sturtze (3 games/$1,000) and Lofton ($500).

2007: The Francona Rule
Late in the season, at Watson's direction, MLB mandated that managers could no longer wear a team pullover instead of a uniform jersey top or jacket. The controversy stemmed from an August 29, 2007 incident in which an MLB representative was sent into the Red Sox dugout in the middle of a game at Yankee Stadium to verify that Red Sox manager Terry Francona was wearing the proper attire. Francona had donned the loose-fitting fleece pullovers instead of more constrictive clothing due to circulatory issues. The intrusion came in the bottom of the second inning with the Yankees batting and Derek Jeter on second base. Francona's spoke to reporters after the game:

"Unless that [expletive] RSA can keep Jeter close, he needs to stay out of the dugout," Francona said. "That was about as embarrassed as I've been in a long time for baseball."

Later, Watson himself entered the dugout to address the matter with Francona:

"Get out of the dugout during the game," Francona firmly told Watson, who left.

The loose-fitting pullover worn by Terry Francona is officially licensed MLB apparel, but is considered a "nightshirt" (and illegal attire for managers and coaches) by MLB Vice President Bob Watson.

During the postgame press conference, Francona expanded on his answers:
"I've never seen anything like that before in my life," he said. "Middle of the game you've got the fashion police. This is incredible. He made me show him [the jersey]. I was sort of in a hurry because I thought Jeter was going to steal third. I was trying to do my job. "I didn't ask to appeal. I think the cursing I did to the guy going up the tunnel was probably appeal enough." The next day, an MLB public relations staffer attempted to minimize the issue:
"We just wanted to enforce what is stipulated in the uniform regulations that apply to players, managers, and coaches," MLB spokesman Mike Teevan wrote in an e-mail. "The regulations state that the jersey has to be worn at all times during a game. We try to enforce the rule across the board, so the issue has not been limited to Terry, although we have discussed it with him before. "The timing was an issue, and it's something we will avoid going forward." While Watson did not comment on the matter, his superior at MLB voiced his understanding of Francona's objections:
"Terry got upset, and he was within his rights to be upset," MLB executive vice president Jimmie Lee Solomon told ESPN.com. "He's in the middle of a game and he has a lot of things on his mind, and the agent should have shown a little better judgment by waiting until there was no action. The timing was unfortunate. And it will not happen again." Three months passed before Watson issued MLB's edict in choice terms:
"There's going to be, for lack of a better term, a Francona Rule,” Watson said. “You can only wear your uniform top or jacket. You can't wear your nightshirt, or whatever it is. You can wear it before games, or after games, but not during games. You have to have your uniform top at all times." Other incidents involving Watson and the Red Sox:

Suspended Trot Nixon (4 games/$2,000) and Frank Castillo (4 games/$1,500) for their roles in a 5/5/02 incident against the Devil Rays. Nixon was accused of intentionally flinging his bat toward pitcher Ryan Rupe, who had hit Nomar Garciaparra and Shea Hillenbrand with pitches earlier in the 1st inning. Castillo was cited for intentionally hitting Randy Winn with a pitch in the top of the 4th. Before issuing his edict, Watson consulted with Devil Rays manager Hal McRae but not Grady Little.

Suspended Frank Castillo (5 games) for making physical contact with third base umpire Bill Welke, who had called a balk just before Castillo yielded a run-scoring double against the Padres in San Diego on 6/19/02. Castillo then yelled "That's your [expletive] run" at Welke, prompting the umpire to eject him. Castillo charged the umpire and then inadvertently stepped on his foot. The penalty doled out by Watson contrasts starkly with the handling of Alex Rodriguez (then with the Rangers), who was ejected after inadvertently contacting an umpire the previous month but faced no suspension.

Fined Frank Castillo ($750) for a 7/18/02 incident against the Devil Rays in Tampa Bay. It began when Tampa Bay's Tanyon Sturtze hit Manny Ramirez, who'd homered and doubled the day before, in the back with a first-inning pitch. Castillo retaliated by plunking Brent Abernathy in the shoulder with one out in the third, prompting warnings to both benches. With two outs in the 9th, Esteban Yan uncorked a fastball into Ramirez's shoulder, hitting him just under his chin. Sox players jumped to the top step of the dugout, with several shouting at Yan and his Tampa Bay teammates. Umpire Tim Welke then ejected Yan and Devil Rays manager Hal McRae. Watson also fined Sturtze $750, but imposed no penalty whatsoever on Yan. Upon receiving word that Yan had been spared the rod, Castillo unleashed his venom on Watson:

"This time it's [expletive] ridiculous," Castillo said. "The [expletive] guy who is doing this, he must have it in for me or something because it's a [expletive] joke. That's outrageous. The [expletive] guy is a [expletive] idiot."

Fined Pedro Martinez ($1,000) for hitting Tampa Bay's Ben Grieve in the back with a pitch on 7/25/02 at Fenway Park. Pedro alleged he was fined for refusing Watson's request to publicly state that the pitch was accidental:

"Bob Watson wanted me to say I didn't do it on purpose," Martinez said. "He wanted me to lie to you guys. He wanted to make me look like a fool, and I'm not. Imagine Bob Watson doing the same thing I did and then saying, 'Oh, no, the ball slipped out of my hands.'" "I'm the most watched guy by the umpires. It's not the other team. Nobody complains, just the umpires and the league. I don't know who in the league is watching me so closely. They don't like my pants and they don't like my jersey."

Suspended Derek Lowe (5 games), Jason Varitek (4 games), Rey Sanchez (3 games) and pitching coach Tony Cloninger (2 games) while fining Shea Hillenbrand, Carlos Baerga, Doug Mirabelli, and Ugueth Urbina $500 apiece for their actions in a 7/27/02 brawl with the Orioles at Fenway Park. Manager Grady Little was fined $1,000 for telling reporters after the game that his team would continue to retaliate vigorously in beanball wars. Watson also suspends Baltimore's Willis Roberts (7 games) and Mevin Mora (4 games) while issuing $500 fines to Gary Matthews Jr. and fellow Orioles David Segui, Jeff Conine and Rodrigo Lopez. The fracas began after Lowe plunked Matthews on the hip in the 4th inning as retribution for Oriole starter Scott Erickson hitting Manny Ramirez on the shoulder with a pitch the previous inning. The benches cleared after Lowe made a derogatory comment to Matthews, prompting Matthews to charge the mound from first base. Umpires ejected Matthews, Cloninger, and Roberts. Sox pitcher Willie Banks suffered a minor right thumb injury while restraining Erickson, and Baltimore's Brook Fordyce sustained a bloody nose while scuffling with Cloninger. Erickson was not disciplined in any way for itting Ramirez or for his role in the melee.

Ordered Mike Timlin in April 2003 to cease and desist from wearing a camouflage T-shirt beneath his uniform, a gesture Timlin said was a show of support for the US armed forces in Iraq. Timlin said he would ignore Watson's edict:

"Bob Watson told me I couldn't wear camouflage out there," he said. "But it will always be on me when I'm pitching. You guys might not be able to see it, but it'll be there. "You get used to a shirt and guys have superstitions, but this is a little bit of a support for the American troops over there. They're doing way more in the world than I am when I'm playing baseball. Really, what we're doing is insignificant to what they're doing right now."

Suspended Grady Little (1 game) and fined him an undisclosed amount for a 6/27/03 incident. Little was ejected during Boston's 25-8 blowout of the Marlins after Hector Almonte threw behind Florida's Andy Fox in the 9th inning. Umpires had already issued warnings to both dugouts after Florida's Blaine Neal hit David Ortiz with a pitch in the 9th. Served without appeal.

Suspended David Ortiz (5 games/$250) following a 7/16/04 incident against the Angels at Fenway Park. In the course of arguing a call, Ortiz pushed Terry Francona into home plate umpire Matt Hollowell and was ejected. He then threw bats from the dugout onto the field, narrowly missing two other umpires. More here.

Took no action against the Yankees' Gary Sheffield following a 4/14/05 incident at Fenway Park involving two Fenway Park fans who interfered with his attempt to field a ball hit down the right field line.

Suspended Red Sox coach Ron Jackson and fined him an undisclosed amount for "excessive arguing" for leaving the dugout during an umpiring dispute on 4/14/05 at Fenway Park. Also fined Terry Francona for criticizing plate umpire Greg Gibson at his postgame press conference. Jackson did not appeal because there is no such process for coaches.

Suspended and/or fined Bronson Arroyo (6 games), Trot Nixon (2 games/$3,000), Terry Francona (3 games/$3,000) and David Ortiz ($500) in the wake of a 4/24/05 bench-clearing brawl with the Devil Rays at Tropicana Field. Four members of the Devil Rays were also fined and suspended; manager Lou Piniella had his fine reduced from $3,000 to $2,500 after speaking with MLB Director of Administration John McHale. Francona later questioned the fairness of the penalties meted out, while Nixon later questioned why MLB delayed for several weeks enforcement of the penalties assessed to Tampa Bay pitcher Dewon Brazelton.

Took no action against Terry Francona after he was ejected along with Cardinals manager Tony Larussa after a string of hit batsmen on both sides during a 6/7/05 game in St. Louis.

Suspended David Wells 6 games and fined him $2,500 for his actions in a 7/2/05 game at Fenway Park in which he waved his glove in disgust at plate umpire Larry Poncino, then turned his back to him and uttered profanity as Poncino returned to the plate, only to have second base umpire Chris Guccione toss him from the game. [Upheld on appeal].

Suspended Julian Tavarez 10 regular season days (not games) for his role in a 3/27/06 preseason brawl. It began when Tampa Bay's Joey Gathright was tagged out by Tavarez after being caught in a rundown between third base and home place, and escalated to Tavarez striking Gathright with his fists (photo sequence here. Served without appeal.

Met with Terry Francona on 3/31/06 to address an incident on 3/26/06 in which Josh Beckett had a verbal altercation with Ryan Howard of the Phillies during an exhibition game after the pitcher accused the slugger of showboating with a slow trot around the bases after homering. No suspensions or fines were issued.

Met with David Ortiz in Philadelphia on 3/31/06 to discuss concerns over inconsistent calling of balls and strikes by home plate umpires.

Suspended Yankees pitcher Joba Chamberlain two games and fined him $1,000 for "inappropriate actions" that involved throwing a pitch over the head of Kevin Youkilis at Yankee Stadium on 8/30/07. Served without appeal.

Suspended Coco Crisp 7 games for charging the mound after being hit by a pitch thrown by Tampa Bay's James Shields on 6/5/08. Reduced to 5 games on appeal. Also suspended were Jon Lester (5 games) and Sean Casey (3 games); neither appealed.

Posted by: soxmuscle

^ Thanks for making me read that in full, Min0.

Some of the stuff that has been done in the past is pretty remarkable.

It's one thing to make an MVP prediction about a guy who's had seven straight MVP caliber seasons and then hurts his wrist last year and is finally healthy heading into this season, it's another thing to be blatantly wrong with your facts.

I love you, but your Yankee jerking off and Red Sox hatred is far worse than the opposite of mine.

Posted by: soxmuscle

Quote:

Originally Posted by min0 lee

Throw at a jerk, he's now gone but he was a good guy while he was here and in Phillie.
Beckett is an ass.

I've always liked Abreu as a player.

Don't know much about him personally, but he always seems to have a smile on his face.

Calling Beckett an ass over that? Yikes.

Posted by: IainDaniel

Your on crack if you think he didn't deserve a suspension.

Was it for throwing the ball at abreu....no

It was for instigating the whole thing. Yipping and walking off the mound towards the batter.

And it needed to be a 6 game suspension so he would miss at least 1 start.

Posted by: soxmuscle

The MLB statement:

Boston pitcher Josh Beckett has been suspended for six games and fined by Major League Baseball, which determined he intentionally threw a pitch near the head of the Los Angeles Angels' Bobby Abreu last week.

Posted by: IainDaniel

I don't care what MLB is stating.... he deserved the suspension.

Just shut his mouth and pitch.

Posted by: soxmuscle

Watch the video.

Abreu says something, throws his arms up in the air and is about to charge after him when the umpire gets in his way.

Beckett walks over, the LA bench is ready to pounce (most notably Torii Hunter).

Beckett stops walking towards him and stands a good five feet away from him and the benches clear.

This should have been a non-issue and would have been if Bob Watson wasn't the one in charge.

Posted by: IainDaniel

Video was taken down by MLB

I saw no motion from Abreu.... I saw the umpire react like they would anytime a batter was thrown at by getting in between a batter and pitcher.

Posted by: soxmuscle

Quote:

Originally Posted by IainDaniel

I don't care what MLB is stating.... he deserved the suspension.

Just shut his mouth and pitch.

Same should be said for Abreu.

Shut up and hit.

Or if you're going to call time, actually step out of the box and/or throw up your hand to warn the pitcher.

That, or expect when he stops halfway through his motion for the ball to be thrown wildly.

He did neither of these things. Instead, he flailed his arms, shouted at Beckett and tried to approach the mound before the umpire behind home plate got in his way.

Posted by: soxmuscle

Quote:

Originally Posted by IainDaniel

Video was taken down by MLB

I saw no motion from Abreu.... I saw the umpire react like they would anytime a batter was thrown at by getting in between a batter and pitcher.

It's all over MLB dot com and Redsox dot com.

The umpire did his job, absolutely. That said, Abreu flailed his arms as he shouted something at Beckett and tried to advance towards the mound.

For the record, I don't think Abreu or anybody on the Angels should have been suspended.

I just happen to think Beckett got screwed here and the evidence from past incidents proves that.

Posted by: min0 lee

[quote=soxmuscle;1886502]^ Thanks for making me read that in full, Min0.

Quote:

Some of the stuff that has been done in the past is pretty remarkable.

Quote:

It's one thing to make an MVP prediction about a guy who's had seven straight MVP caliber seasons and then hurts his wrist last year and is finally healthy heading into this season, it's another thing to be blatantly wrong with your facts.

What are you talking about? /QUOTE]

I love you, but your Yankee jerking off and Red Sox hatred is far worse than the opposite of mine.

Sorry but I don't hate the Red Sox.....maybe Curt, it's the fans who get all bitchy about things.

Quote:

Manny Ramirez took umbrage at a high fastball from Roger Clemens

I remember that like it was yesterday and if you ever look at the pitch you'll notice it wasn't even close.
Go look at it, it's just Manny being Manny and looking for attention.

Posted by: min0 lee

Quote:

Originally Posted by soxmuscle

Same should be said for Abreu.

Shut up and hit.

Or if you're going to call time, actually step out of the box and/or throw up your hand to warn the pitcher.

That, or expect when he stops halfway through his motion for the ball to be thrown wildly.

He did neither of these things. Instead, he flailed his arms, shouted at Beckett and tried to approach the mound before the umpire behind home plate got in his way.

Your kidding right? Only person he asks is the umpire.
Sheezh, he I was pitching and he asked me for timeout I would bean him myself. Fag.

Posted by: soxmuscle

That's not the point, Min0.

This kind of shit happens on a regular basis. A player calls time halfway through his wind up, the umpire awards him the timeout, the pitcher tries to stop his motion and the ball goes to a place he didn't want it to go.

Don't flail your arms around and shout at the pitcher when that happens or if you do expect the person your trying to instigate shit with to approach you.

If this was little league and their was an umpire at the pitchers mound and not behind the plate, Beckett is the one who's stopped in his tracks and Abreu is the "ass" as you called him.

In that scenario, Abreu doesn't get suspended 6 games, 3 games or even 1 game. The likeliness of a fine is also low and even if their was one, Abreu has accumulated over $92 million dollars in per year MLB salaries alone and should have no problem giving a couple thousand to the league.

Posted by: soxmuscle

[quote=min0 lee;1886539]

Quote:

Originally Posted by soxmuscle

^ Thanks for making me read that in full, Min0.

Sorry but I don't hate the Red Sox.....maybe Curt, it's the fans who get all bitchy about things.

I remember that like it was yesterday and if you ever look at the pitch you'll notice it wasn't even close.
Go look at it, it's just Manny being Manny and looking for attention.

You may not hate the Red Sox, but your Yankee bias is second to none.

That pitch was in a similar spot to the Beckett/Abreu pitch the other day.

Manny overreacted, just like Abreu did. Beckett reacted just like Roger did.

The situations are actually quite similar.

Posted by: IainDaniel

I have no problem with the pitch being thrown at abreu.... that is part of the game in my book.

Sure no Angels got suspended....they lost 4 players that game. If Beckett got tossed like he should have, then there would have been no suspension.

Posted by: I Are Baboon

5 ER in 1 inning for Dice-K. Nice pop up by Ortiz with the bases loaded in the 10th. Seriously, get him the hell out of the three slot NOW.

I am not worried about the Red Sox, just frustrated.

Posted by: min0 lee

[quote=soxmuscle;1886570]

Quote:

Originally Posted by min0 lee

You may not hate the Red Sox, but your Yankee bias is second to none.

That pitch was in a similar spot to the Beckett/Abreu pitch the other day.

Manny overreacted, just like Abreu did. Beckett reacted just like Roger did.

The situations are actually quite similar.

Bullshit! Look at the film, it wasn't even close.

I don't like Clemson at all but that pitch he threw to Manny didn't even go over his head.

I am a baseball fan first, Met second and Yankee third. Surprised aren't you?

Posted by: min0 lee

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Are Baboon

5 ER in 1 inning for Dice-K. .

Red Sox place Matsuzaka on 15-day DL with 'arm fatigue'

Posted by: I Are Baboon

Tim Wakefield > CC Sabathia (aka fatass)

Posted by: I Are Baboon

Quote:

Originally Posted by min0 lee

Red Sox place Matsuzaka on 15-day DL with 'arm fatigue'

The WBC can fuck itself.

Posted by: min0 lee

Burnett > Tim Wakefield > CC Sabathia (aka fatass)

Posted by: I Are Baboon

That was a huge performance by Wake today though. The Sox bullpen was tired and we needed a good performance. Can't say we expected a complete game from Wakefield!

Posted by: soxmuscle

Min0,

I really feel like you haven't seen the Beckett/Abreu play.

The ball was nowhere near his head.

Posted by: IainDaniel

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Are Baboon

The WBC can fuck itself.

That is a lame excuse in my book.

Meanwhile many players get better starts to the season because of it.

Posted by: IainDaniel

Quote:

Originally Posted by soxmuscle

Min0,

I really feel like you haven't seen the Beckett/Abreu play.

The ball was nowhere near his head.

I think you are a Beckett homer.

Posted by: calalily1972

Tough beginning with the loses, Beckett on suspension and Dice-K on disabled list

Posted by: min0 lee

Bobby is still close to home...Beckett is close to touching home plate, he has a lot of rage in him.

Posted by: min0 lee

Quote:

For those who were dumbfounded by the fact that Boston Red Sox starter Josh Beckett was not thrown out of Sunday’s game against the Anaheim Angels for throwing at Bobby Abreu, there was some justice served Tuesday as Beckett was suspended for six games by Major League Baseball.

The incident took place after Abreu requested a timeout in his first-inning at-bat, which was granted by the home plate umpire, Paul Schreiber. Beckett went through with his delivery and proceeded to send a pitch high and tight, nearly hitting Abreu (video).

“I’ve never hit anybody in the head, and it’s not really on my list of stuff to accomplish,” Beckett said Sunday. “But people can think what they want to think. I know Bobby Abreu. He knows I’m not trying to hit him in the head.”

The league did not agree with Beckett’s assessment, saying his “aggressive actions” had “incited the bench-clearing incident.”

After the pitch and a puzzled reaction from Abreu, Beckett marched “menacingly toward the plate,” as written by Kevin Baxter of The Los Angeles Times, and began shouting at Abreu. The benches cleared and four Angels, including Manager Mike Scioscia, were ejected while Beckett was not even given a warning for the pitch.

The Angels’ hitting coach, Mickey Hatcher, was also suspended for one game and fines were handed out to Hatcher, Scioscia, outfielder Torii Hunter and reliever Justin Speier.

Mr. Soxmuscle, I thought better of you.

The pitch Clemens threw at Manny was a high and tight fastball which Posada caught now a pitcher has every right to not let a batter get to comfortable.

The Beckett pitch was over Bobby's head.....Varitech had no change of even catching the ball it was so far over his head.

To make matters even worse he charges the plate.

Talk about a homer.

You can roll the video and see for yourself.

Posted by: min0 lee

nearly hitting Abreu (video).

Posted by: I Are Baboon

Quote:

Originally Posted by IainDaniel

That is a lame excuse in my book.

and you smell like carrots.

Posted by: soxmuscle

Quote:

Originally Posted by IainDaniel

That is a lame excuse in my book.

Meanwhile many players get better starts to the season because of it.

Daisuke' arm is overworked, sore and effecting his season.

The WBC really serves no purpose - if Roy Halladay was in a similar situation, your opinion would be different.

Posted by: soxmuscle

Quote:

Originally Posted by IainDaniel

I think you are a Beckett homer.

Watch him tomorrow, should be lights out

Posted by: soxmuscle

Quote:

Originally Posted by min0 lee

Bobby is still close to home...Beckett is close to touching home plate, he has a lot of rage in him.

No shit Bobby is still close to home, the umpire stepped in his way blocking him from advancing much past home plate.

Rage

Posted by: soxmuscle

Quote:

Originally Posted by min0 lee

You can roll the video and see for yourself.

Whoa, whoa, whoa...

The two pitches are similar only because of the incidents.

Abreu (and Manny) wrongfully acted causing the pitchers (both Beckett and Clemens) to fire back.

Of course the plays are different, that's self explanatory. Beckett was stopped halfway through his wind up and had no control over his pitch, which is the only reason it came close to his head.

You're wrong here, Min0.

Posted by: min0 lee

Quote:

Originally Posted by soxmuscle

If you say so.

Posted by: soxmuscle

I don't mean it like that - All of the ESPN people agree with me, all of the Red Sox people agree with me and I believe even the Angels people agree with me.

There was nothing malicious about that play and there shouldn't be a suspension and you're in the minority with your thought process here that Beckett is this malicious person full of rage looking to head hunt.

Posted by: soxmuscle

Major League Baseball now has overruled that shithead Watson and will reduce the suspension so that he won't miss any time.

"Josh Beckett had his suspension reduced from six games to five games, meaning he won't miss a scheduled start.
Beckett wanted to appeal the suspension for throwing at the Angels Bobby Abreu based on principle as he doesn't agree with it, but the Red Sox would rather just get it over with now that it means he won't miss any real time. With the Red Sox having Thursday off, Beckett will make his next start Saturday on six days' rest."

Posted by: min0 lee

Suspension on pitchers are a joke.

This maniac is a menace to society and should be banned before he hurts any more innocent players.

Posted by: shiznit2169

Quote:

Originally Posted by min0 lee

Suspension on pitchers are a joke.

This maniac is a menace to society and should be banned before he hurts any more innocent players.

Posted by: IainDaniel

Let me guess Leucic didn't deserve a suspension either?

Posted by: min0 lee

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiznit2169

I am being sarcastic dude.

Posted by: min0 lee

I always found it unfair how an everyday player will miss 4 games while a pitcher may not even lose a start.
Pretty stupid isn't it?

Posted by: shiznit2169

Quote:

Originally Posted by IainDaniel

Let me guess Leucic didn't deserve a suspension either?

No, it's the playoffs for christ sake. That lapierre bum instigated the fight coming after Lucic AT THE END OF THE GAME when they were losing 5-1. Obviously he wanted this to happen and Lucic couldn't keep his cool and checked him in the upper chest.

Hardly a "blow to the head", the media always makes it more serious than it was. So overblown.

Posted by: IainDaniel

YouTube Video

Hardly a blow to the head..... haha. you are on crack... First he cross checked another guy, then Lapierre came in(never instigated a thing), in which he practically took of his head (notice the helmet came off, that isn't from a chest shot.)

Playoffs or not, head shots deserve a suspension.

Watch the play again. He got 2 for the original cross check, and 5 mins for the cross check to the head.

Posted by: min0 lee

I think the Boston network does a lot of editing, that would how these guys don't see the obvious.

It's the Boston goggles syndrome.

Posted by: shiznit2169

lmao, i have seen worse hits than that. That is NOTHING. It's fricken hockey dude. It's ok, give Lucic the day off. Montreal has no chance this year.

Posted by: IainDaniel

I have played hockey my whole life and still do.... so don't give the "it's hockey line"

Lucic lost his cool... he even knows it.

You are correct that Montreal has no Chance. Montreal shouldn't even of made the playoffs. Florida or Buffalo would have made a better series out of it.

Posted by: I Are Baboon

Please keep the gay hockey talk in the gay hockey thread.

Posted by: I Are Baboon

My Sox/Yanks prediction for the first series of 2009: Sox sweep.

Posted by: min0 lee

It's going to be a good one, the Red Sox are hot right now.
Jaba has been so- so.

Posted by: I Are Baboon

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Are Baboon

My Sox/Yanks prediction for the first series of 2009: Sox sweep.

Posted by: min0 lee

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Are Baboon

Posted by: soxmuscle

the Red Sox are just so clearly the superior organization to the Yankees, it's not even funny.

look at the lack of depth that that team has while the Red Sox are able to rest guys here, trot out somebody there, etc.

God, it's nice being the best.

lets go for 12 tomorrow.

Posted by: min0 lee

They have been for the past few years and right now they are on fire.

I laughed when you said Ortiz will be the MVP but it looks like Youkillis will be instead if he keeps it up.

What an ugly yet effective swing.

What's going on with Ortiz??

Posted by: soxmuscle

He's got no power and he's been unable to catch up to pitches, even in the low 90's.

I wouldn't say he's "cooked" just yet, but he's been pretty ineffective in the third spot this year.

Youkilis, Lowell, Bay, Pedroia... they have plenty of MVP options that I wish were available on the website I made the prop bet on.

Posted by: min0 lee

You said Ortiz was the MVP.

Posted by: calalily1972

Nice little run for the Sox we have going here

Posted by: I Are Baboon

Quote:

Originally Posted by calalily1972

Nice little run for the Sox we have going here

Not too shabby. Better than losing a bunch of games I suppose.

Posted by: min0 lee

The Marlins also had a nice little run.

Posted by: I Are Baboon

Sox got pwn3d by Matt Garza last night.

Posted by: IainDaniel

Beckett got owned for the second straight outing.

Posted by: I Are Baboon

Quote:

Originally Posted by IainDaniel

Beckett got owned for the second straight outing.

He sucks.

Posted by: IainDaniel

Don't tell soxmuscle that, he would have his kids.

Posted by: Triple Threat

You're slipping, Iain. I'm surprised that you didn't have any comment about the final Red Sox pitcher last night.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IainDaniel

What no one wants to jump in here, and claim what a bush league move last night was putting nick swisher in to pitch?

Yanks are pathetic.

Posted by: IainDaniel

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple Threat

You're slipping, Iain. I'm surprised that you didn't have any comment about the final Red Sox pitcher last night.

I missed it.... Haven't really been home the last 4 days. Goddamn work.

Posted by: min0 lee

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple Threat

You're slipping, Iain. I'm surprised that you didn't have any comment about the final Red Sox pitcher last night.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IainDaniel

What no one wants to jump in here, and claim what a bush league move last night was putting nick swisher in to pitch?

Yanks are pathetic.

Quote:

Van Every was brought in from right field to pitch after reliever Javier Lopez gave up consecutive two-run doubles that hiked Tampa Bay's lead to 12-0 in the eighth.

Swisher and Van Every would be 1 and 2 on the Toronto Blue Jay pitching staff.

Posted by: I Are Baboon

Quote:

Originally Posted by min0 lee

Swisher and Van Every would be 1 and 2 on the Toronto Blue Jay pitching staff.

AHHHAHAHAHAHAHA.

The Blue Jays....lol

Posted by: IainDaniel

Hmmm. funny how the Jays have a better ERA then both the Red Sox and Yankees.

Well beating the Yanks wasn't really a surprise, they just oveypay a bunch of sorta has beens.

Posted by: I Are Baboon

Optimistic Blue Jays fans are cute. It's kind of like voting for Ron Paul...you know he's going to lose, but you vote for him anyway.

Posted by: IainDaniel

I think the Jays can make a good run for the wild card, Winning the Division is highly unlikely.

The Jays have the best record in MLB since Cito took over as manager. Amazing hitting manager.

Posted by: I Are Baboon

I liked Tampa Bay better when they sucked.

Posted by: min0 lee

I think Tampa will win the division.....not that I make predictions.

Posted by: min0 lee

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Are Baboon

Looks like they will sweep the whole year.

Posted by: I Are Baboon

David Ortiz fucking SUCKS.

Posted by: min0 lee

Mass. Suspect Not Allowed To Attend Red Sox Games

WORCESTER, Mass. (AP) -- A former middle school gym teacher facing child pornography possession charges has been denied a request to attend Boston Red Sox games.

Brian Rossi asked to be allowed to go to Red Sox games while he's under home confinement. A federal magistrate refused on Tuesday to relax the rules.

Rossi wears a monitoring device and is only allowed to leave home for court-approved medical and legal appointments. But he asked the judge if could attend 13 baseball games with family members because he bought the tickets before his February arrest.

He has pleaded not guilty to federal charges accusing him of possessing videos and printed images of boys ages 8 to 12 involved in sex acts.

Posted by: min0 lee

Soxmuscle as a young lad....

Posted by: IainDaniel

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Are Baboon

David Ortiz fucking SUCKS.

That is an understatement. 0-7 yesterday 3 strikeouts, and left 12 runners on base.

Posted by: I Are Baboon

I thought that anyone besides David Ortiz would be an improvement in the lineup. I was wrong. Rocco Baldelli has been just as bad.

This team ain't gonna win shit with Nick Green, Rocco Baldelli, and Jeff Bailey accounting for a third of the starting lineup.

Posted by: min0 lee

Ortiz hits his first homer

Posted by: I Are Baboon

haha...I lol'd.

Posted by: min0 lee

Ortiz hits his first homer

Good thing, I thought Mo Vaugh would never get a homer this year...oh wait... I meant Big Papi.

Posted by: min0 lee

let's Go Met's

Posted by: I Are Baboon

where's lovemuscle been?

Posted by: min0 lee

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Are Baboon

where's lovemuscle been?

He's taking big Papi's slump very hard.

I believe he is went to California to look for Manny.....Manny may have mistakenly taken Big Papi's medicine bag when he was traded...

Posted by: min0 lee

Thank god for PIP.

Youkillis can sure hit....but he has one of the ugliest batting stance I have ever seen. How does he hit the ball?

Posted by: min0 lee

To think they were trying to run V-tech out of town.

Posted by: min0 lee

I never noticed how fugly the Boston players, no wonder the Boston fans hate the Yankees.
Youk looks like a retard.
Pedoria looks like he came out the movie Deliverance.
Big Papi.....ughhhh

Probably why Dice K keeps throwing at pinup star Write.

Haters.

It's really sad to see Ortiz struggle like this.....his bat is super slow, he's missing pitches he used to crush. He also looks softer, not that he ever was an Adonis.

Posted by: min0 lee

What a dick Youk is, he gets hit only because he moved his hands into the pitch and then starts crying like a baby.

The pitcher has every right to throw inside...it wasn't even close.

Jeter and Alfonso both were sent to the hospital by Pedro (headhunter) and the Yankees never retaliated....that was soft of the Yankees though.

Posted by: I Are Baboon

Quote:

Originally Posted by min0 lee

I never noticed how fugly the Boston players, no wonder the Boston fans hate the Yankees.
Youk looks like a retard.
Pedoria looks like he came out the movie Deliverance.
Big Papi.....ughhhh

That's a very gay observation.

Just sayin'.

Posted by: shiznit2169

Quote:

Originally Posted by min0 lee

I never noticed how fugly the Boston players, no wonder the Boston fans hate the Yankees.
Youk looks like a retard.
Pedoria looks like he came out the movie Deliverance.
Big Papi.....ughhhh

Probably why Dice K keeps throwing at pinup star Write.

Haters.

It's really sad to see Ortiz struggle like this.....his bat is super slow, he's missing pitches he used to crush. He also looks softer, not that he ever was an Adonis.

It's baseball, not a fashion/modeling contest. I'd take a hard working "fudgy" (your words) Youkilis over pretty boy A-Rod any day.

Posted by: min0 lee

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiznit2169

It's baseball, not a fashion/modeling contest. I'd take a hard working "fudgy" (your words) Youkilis over pretty boy A-Rod any day.

You don't think much more fun watching a pretty face at bat?

A -rod has the prettiest eyes.

Who do you think is the cutest red sox? I bet you think V-tech......come on, fess up.

Posted by: min0 lee

And it's Fugly, short for f-cking ugly.

Posted by: shiznit2169

Quote:

Originally Posted by min0 lee

You don't think much more fun watching a pretty face at bat?

A -rod has the prettiest eyes.

Who do you think is the cutest red sox? I bet you think V-tech......come on, fess up.

Nah, Papelbon.

Posted by: min0 lee

Posted by: min0 lee

He needs to be banned from baseball, at least for the rest of the season.
Roid rage will do that.
Talk about your sore losers!

http://www.nypost.com/seven/05252009...0861.htmBoston Red Sox closer Jonathan Papelbon took out his frustrations on Post photographer Anthony Causi Saturday night, hurling a towel at the lensman after blowing a save opportunity against the Mets.

Papelbon had just surrendered a two-run homer to backup catcher Omir Santos -- leading to a 3-2 Amazin' victory -- when Causi had the audacity to do his job and photograph the closer as he sulked in the Sox dugout in the bottom of the ninth.

Papelbon screamed, "Don't take my f- - -ing picture," according to Causi, before throwing his towel at him

It should be noted: Papelbon missed Causi.

"I guess he missed with two pitches that night," Causi cracked.

Papelbon then stormed off to a corner of the dugout, hiding from the lensmen working in the first-base photographers well.

Causi contrasted Papelbon's behavior with that of Yankee closer Mariano Rivera. The fotog recalled taking a picture of Rivera last month at Fenway Park just after the ace reliever blew a save against Boston.

"He knew I was shooting him, and he didn't say a word," Causi said. "A true champion realizes you got to take the good with the bad."

Papelbon flipped out again moments later Saturday, screaming at umps over a close call at first base.

After cooling off, Papelbon took full responsibility for allowing Santos to win the game.

Posted by: min0 lee

Mariano would never act like this.

Posted by: P-funk

Papelbon is a baby. I can't stand that guy.

patrick

Posted by: shiznit2169

Papelbon is a passionate guy who cares about every game. Youkilis is the same way, he gets upset every time he gets an out. The redsox are a hard-working team and play day in and day out.

And the Yankees? Just a bunch of egotistical prima donnas who care about attention and their big fat paycheck.

Posted by: IainDaniel

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiznit2169

Papelbon is a passionate guy who cares about every game. Youkilis is the same way, he gets upset every time he gets an out. The redsox are a hard-working team and play day in and day out.

And the Yankees? Just a bunch of egotistical prima donnas who care about attention and their big fat paycheck.

I would like to see your opinion of Papelbon with those actions if he was a Yankee. I can bet they would be quite a bit different.

Posted by: I Are Baboon

Throwing towels is some pretty serious shit.

Posted by: I Are Baboon

By the way: First place.

Posted by: IainDaniel

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Are Baboon

Throwing towels is some pretty serious shit.

I don't really care. But I know if he was in a Yankee uniform, he would be getting blasted.

Posted by: min0 lee

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiznit2169

This is about the Mets and Red Sox.

Posted by: IainDaniel

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Are Baboon

By the way: First place.

I know sigh. 7 Straight losses. Bats have just disappeared.

Posted by: min0 lee

This is one tough division.

Posted by: I Are Baboon

Quote:

Originally Posted by IainDaniel

I don't really care. But I know if he was in a Yankee uniform, he would be getting blasted.

I'd hate the hell out of him if he were a Yankee.

Posted by: shiznit2169

Quote:

Originally Posted by IainDaniel

I would like to see your opinion of Papelbon with those actions if he was a Yankee. I can bet they would be quite a bit different.

But he's not a Yankee so your argument is irrelevant. No ifs ands or buts!

Posted by: IainDaniel

Sure it does = homer syndrome.

Posted by: min0 lee

I used to be a homer when I was younger.

Some guys are hard to root for.

I hated Vince Colemans guts when he played for the Mets.

Posted by: Triple Threat

Quote:

Originally Posted by min0 lee

It's really sad to see Ortiz struggle like this.....his bat is super slow, he's missing pitches he used to crush. He also looks softer, not that he ever was an Adonis.

Actually Ortiz is a darker version of Adrian Adonis from the old WWF.

Posted by: I Are Baboon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple Threat

Actually Ortiz is a darker version of Adrian Adonis from the old WWF.

I think somebody slapped the "Goodnight Irene" on his bats.

Posted by: min0 lee

In the academy award-winning classic Cocktail, Coughlin tells young Flanagan, "Everything ends badly, otherwise it wouldn't end." It's the single greatest yearbook quote ever. Hell, it may be the greatest movie quote ever. Either Coughlin was the Thoreau of bartending, or Thoreau the Coughlin of writing. One or the other.

We reached the "ending badly" point with David Ortiz five weeks ago. Remember in Superman II when Clark Kent gave up his superpowers so he could be with Lois Lane -- lesson No. 184 on how women ruin everything -- and then a bully beat the crap out of the suddenly mortal superhero in a diner? That's been Big Papi since Opening Day. What makes it stranger is that he still looks like Big Papi. Same bulky build. Same goofy beard. Same happy smile. Same batting stance. This isn't like the Ultimate Warrior returning after the then-WWF's first steroids scandal with a jarringly smaller physique. Everything looks the same with Ortiz, only Mario Mendoza has switched brains with him.
At first, we Sox fans thought we were just watching an early-season slump. Then three weeks passed and we started worrying. The guy couldn't hit the ball out of the infield. His bat was so slow he had to cheat on fastballs; even then, he couldn't catch up. One swing a night made him look like the drunkest batter in a beer league softball game. Look, I've seen slumps. This was different. This was the collapse of a career.

The steroid whispers started quickly. By late April, every conversation I had with a Sox fan seemed to include a "We need to mail Papi some HGH" joke. It was an easy leap for a couple of reasons: First, his power numbers leapt like Obama's Q rating from 2003 to 2007. Second, he's Dominican, and more than a few of his brethren -- Sammy Sosa, Miguel Tejada, Guillermo Mota -- have been in the center of PED controversies. Third, they sell steroids over the counter in the DR like they're Bubblicious. And fourth, baseball has reached a depressing point in which power hitters are presumed guilty until proven innocent.

When Manny Ramírez was suspended for trying to jump-start ovaries he didn't have, many Sox fans (including me) assumed we had our unhappy answer for Papi's demise. We braced for Ortiz to be linked to a bombshell headline that began with the words "Former Sox Clubhouse Attendant … " But one thing nagged at me: He wasn't belting bombs that were dying at the warning track like so many other former 'roiders. He just looked old. It reminded me of watching Jim Rice fall apart in the late '80s, when he lost bat speed overnight the way you and I lose a BlackBerry. That was painful too.

By mid-May, I was pondering another theory: Maybe Papi was older than he claimed. In Seth Mnookin's book Feeding the Monster, he recounts the story of how Boston nearly blew the chance to acquire Ortiz because they were concerned that he was much older than the media guide said. GM Theo Epstein asked Bill James to study Papi's numbers, and when James concluded the peaks and valleys were consistent with a man of Ortiz's stated age, they rolled the dice. The rest is history.

Well, what if James was wrong? How many Latin players have been exposed for lying about their ages in the past few years? Hell, one of Papi's best friends -- Tejada -- was found to have cut two years off his birth certificate when he was 17, er, 19 … you get the point. Watching Papi flounder now, I'd believe he's really 36 or 37 (not 33) before I'd believe PEDs are responsible. In a recent game in Minnesota, he couldn't catch up to an 89 mph fastball. Repeat: 89 mph!

That's what happens to beefy sluggers on their way out: Their knees go, they stiffen up, bat speed slows and, in the blink of an eye, they're done. Beefy sluggers are like porn stars, wrestlers, NBA centers and trophy wives: When it goes, it goes. You know right away.

So that's my theory. I think he's old(er). You may think something else. Whatever the case, it's clear that David Ortiz no longer excels at baseball. This has been banged home over and over again for two solid months. It's ruined the season for me thus far. The best way I can describe Fenway during any Papi at-bat is this: It's filled with 35,000 parents of the same worst kid in Little League who dread every pitch thrown in the kid's direction. There is constant fear and sadness and helplessness. Nobody knows what to do.

It's been a sports experience unlike anything I can remember. Red Sox fans refuse to turn against Ortiz. They just can't. They owe him too much for 2004 and 2007. It's like turning on Santa Claus or happy hour. Every Ortiz appearance is greeted with supportive cheers, every Ortiz failure is greeted with awkward silence. The fans are suffering just like he is. Only when he left 12 men on base against Anaheim on May 14 did I receive a slew of angry e-mails from back home, but even those tirades centered more around Terry Francona's steadfast refusal to drop Ortiz in the order. I cannot remember another Boston athlete stinking this long, and this fragrantly, without getting dumped on.

Really, that's a tribute to what he means to his fans and how delightful it was to watch him play. His career might be over (notice I left the door open; I'm such a sap), but Ortiz has reached the highest level an athlete can reach: unequivocal devotion. Sox fans love him the same way you love an ailing family member. In the end, at his bleakest point, he's brought out the best of an entire fan base. He has inspired dignity and emotion and loyalty. The fans could have sped his demise (and saved a few games) by booing until Francona benched him. They didn't. How often does that happen?

We live in a world in which all entertainment is chewed up and spat out. We milk public figures like cows, and when they're out of milk, we tip them over and move on. Quickly. It's not just that we need to see everything "jump the shark" that bothers me. It's also that so many of us are gleeful about pointing out that something or someone we once loved has outlived his usefulness. The demise of Big Papi played out in an old-school way: real devotion, and in the end, people refusing to let go.

Including me. I still watch every Ortiz at-bat thinking, This is the one. When he belted his first bomb of the season, I clapped like everyone else and pumped my fist. Yes! He's back! The Fenway crowd cheered as if it were Game 7, demanded a curtain call and showered him with love. This was the single strangest sports moment I've ever seen: Fans going absolutely bonkers for something that once was a routine act. Turned out, it was Papi's only homer of the first eight weeks. So it really was a curtain call. By May's end, Francona had dropped him to sixth in the order. Barring a miraculous return of bat speed, he'll be benched or released soon. It'll hurt, and I'm going to feel bad. I already do. Coughlin was right.

Posted by: min0 lee

The Red sox still have a better team, even though the Yanks are playing well now.

Posted by: I Are Baboon

Quote:

Originally Posted by min0 lee

The Red sox still have a better team, even though the Yanks are playing well now.

I want to believe that.........

If the Sox rotation can get their shit in order, we're in business. It's a shame that Clay Buchholz is stuck in the minors. He is lights out right now.

Posted by: min0 lee

The biggest advantage they have is the bullpen.

Posted by: min0 lee

I will say this is the loosest I have seen the Yankees in a long time, not since they went on the World series run have they shown to have so much fun.

Posted by: I Are Baboon

Quote:

Originally Posted by min0 lee

I will say this is the loosest I have seen the Yankees in a long time, not since they went on the World series run have they shown to have so much fun.

It's the locker room circle jerks.

Posted by: soxmuscle

The Red Sox are a big bat away from being a legit World Series contender.

The Yankees are a bullpen arm (probably 2) away from being a legit World Series contender.

Posted by: I Are Baboon

Quote:

Originally Posted by soxmuscle

The Red Sox are a big bat away from being a legit World Series contender.

and have the resources/trade bait to get said bat.

Posted by: min0 lee

Quote:

Originally Posted by soxmuscle

The Red Sox are a big bat away from being a legit World Series contender.

The Yankees are a bullpen arm (probably 2) away from being a legit World Series contender.

I still think they are the team to beat even without Ortiz.
They have the Yankees number.

Posted by: I Are Baboon

Quote:

Originally Posted by min0 lee

They have the Yankees number.

1-800-GAY-HOMO

Posted by: min0 lee

Just because they look pretty that doesn't make them gay. Hater.

Posted by: min0 lee

With Smoltz looming, will Red Sox cash in Penny?

John Smoltz's final minor-league rehab start was rained out last night, so instead he'll take the mound at Triple-A today and also push back his Red Sox debut slightly. Here's what manager Terry Francona had to say about his impending arrival:

After he pitches, we'll sit down with Smoltzy and just make sure we're all on the same page. When I say on the same page, he's been tremendous. We are on the same page. But, again, when you activate somebody, there has to be another move. He understands that. Our next move is to wait for him to get done pitching, sit down with him, see how he comes through his start, and then we'll go from there.

In other words, the Red Sox's rotation is already filled with five veteran starters and one of them--or perhaps more accurately Brad Penny--will likely be given the boot for Smoltz. Of course, Penny shut out the Yankees for six innings last night and afterward replied "I don't want to do that" when asked about possibly moving to the bullpen to make room in the rotation for Smoltz.

On the other hand Smoltz indicated last week that he'd be willing to fill whichever role the Red Sox ask of him, so convincing him to work his way into the rotation gradually by perhaps skipping starts or working as a reliever could be an option if the team wants to delay a decision on Penny (and see first hand what type of stuff Smoltz has these days).

Another option is, of course, trading Penny. He certainly hasn't been great so far, but Penny has a 4.10 ERA and 38/9 K/BB ratio in 48.1 innings since a poor April and there are obviously plenty of teams that could use him in their rotation. If the various rumors are true the Red Sox have definitely been shopping Penny around, but the situation is complicated somewhat by the fact that he can veto any trade through Monday.

Unless they can find good value in a trade for Penny the Red Sox may be best off keeping both pitchers around for a while, provided that Smoltz was truthful about his role flexibility. Assuming that Smoltz will jump right into the mix and remain healthy for the rest of the season is far from safe and there's no reason to give up an asset like Penny for a rotation switch that may not even prove to be a significant upgrade.

Posted by: I Are Baboon

Ugly game today, but the Sox took 5 of 6 from two playoff contenders. You can't be too upset about that.

Posted by: soxmuscle

What's frustrating is that Terry Francona decided to rest the entire team for no apparent reason. It looked like a triple-a line up out there today and it basically made certain that Beckett had to have his best stuff, something I think Tito thought he'd have.

For as good of a manager as he is, sometimes he can be frustrating as hell.

Why can't they all be like Belichick?

Posted by: min0 lee

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Are Baboon

Ugly game today, but the Sox took 5 of 6 from two playoff contenders. You can't be too upset about that.

The Yankees don't count.

Posted by: min0 lee

Quote:

Originally Posted by soxmuscle

Why can't they all be like Belichick?

Francona's a real good manager, I really don't think he needs to be like Belicheck and cheat.

Posted by: min0 lee

Dustin pedroia can play, love his hustle.

Posted by: min0 lee

Ortiz is breaking out of the slump.

Posted by: soxmuscle

Quote:

Originally Posted by min0 lee

Ortiz is breaking out of the slump.

Those MVP jokes better stop if he continues this

Posted by: min0 lee

Quote:

Originally Posted by soxmuscle

Those MVP jokes better stop if he continues this

There's still that first place finish for KC.

Posted by: I Are Baboon

Props to Nick Green. While he certainly isn't the long term solution at shortstop, he's proving to be a real nice plug until Jed Lowrie returns. Green is now hitting .292 and is getting better defensively at a position he had never played before. He's only made one error in his last 25 games. He's been a nice upgrade over Julio Lugo.

Posted by: min0 lee

Papelbon's save ties Stanley

Quote:

Papelbon got the final out with two on to earn his 132nd career save, tying Bob Stanley for the most in Red Sox history.

Impressive when you come to realize he hasn't been playing that long.

Posted by: Triple Threat

One of the Boston stations did a piece on him and there was speculation that if he remains a closer, he'd be a threat to the all-time saves record. Of course, a player needs to be on a good team to have a chance at getting saves. It's not like a KC reliever will ever get that record.

Posted by: I Are Baboon

So much for the best bullpen in baseball.

Orioles rally for stunning 11-10 win over Boston - MLB - Yahoo! Sports

Posted by: Triple Threat

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Are Baboon

So much for the best bullpen in baseball.

Orioles rally for stunning 11-10 win over Boston - MLB - Yahoo! Sports

Damn, I wish I had stayed up to watch that!

Posted by: min0 lee

Unreal, the Yanks can't even win a game against Boston yet the Soxmuscle's team beats Boston.
Sox must know something.

Posted by: I Are Baboon

So long, Julio Lugo. It was inevitable.

Lugo designated for assignment - Extra Bases - Red Sox blog

Posted by: min0 lee

Red Sox trade for Adam LaRoche in deal with cash-strapped Pirates

Posted by: min0 lee

Lugo traded for Donuts.

Posted by: I Are Baboon

Friggin Red Sox.

Posted by: Triple Threat

Thank you Jonathan Papelblown. Cough up a 3 run lead in the 9th.

Just what the Yankees needed on a night CC was getting lit up like a Christmas tree.

Posted by: I Are Baboon

Papelbon will be gone in two season and Daniel Bard will be the new sheriff in town.

Posted by: min0 lee

Congrats to Jim Rice on making to the hall of fame.

It was long overdue though.

Posted by: min0 lee

Red Sox upset by Daisuke Matsuzaka going public with comments
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS (CP) – 23 hours ago
BOSTON — Boston Red Sox manager Terry Francona said the club is disappointed that sidelined pitcher Daisuke Matsuzaka went public with his concerns on how the team is handling his training techniques.
Matsuzaka was 1-5 with an 8.23 earned-run average before going on the 15-day disabled list June 21 with a mild strained right shoulder. Last season, he was 18-3 with a 2.90 ERA.
Matsuzaka met with the team last Friday and is continuing his conditioning at Boston's spring-training complex in Fort Myers, Fla. Dice-K expressed his concern to a Japanese newspaper, and news of the interview broke in Boston on Tuesday.
He's in the third season of a US$52 million, six-year contract.

Posted by: min0 lee

Red Sox land All-Star slugger Victor Martinez from Indians

Read more: Red Sox land All-Star slugger Victor Martinez from Indians

Epstien does it again.

I feel bad for the Cleveland fan....every year they give away a good player.

Posted by: min0 lee

Suffering from 'roid rage'

By Dan Shaughnessy, Globe Columnist | July 31, 2009
David Ortiz lied to you. It seems safe to say that his entire Red Sox career is a lie.
And those life-changing Red Sox championships of 2004 and 2007? Are they forever tainted?
You bet.
A New York Times report yesterday disclosed that the names of Ortiz and Manny Ramírez appear on a list of players who tested positive for performance-enhancing drugs in 2003. A few hours after the news broke, Ortiz hit a game-winning home run in an 8-5 victory over the Oakland A’s at Fenway Park. Then he confirmed that the news report is accurate, and said he was going to look into the matter and have more to say later.
Red Sox Nation is stunned and saddened. Boston fans have taken great pleasure in harpooning the Yankees and their fans since the Sox’ historic comeback against the Bronx Bombers in the 2004 American League Championship Series. It was tons of fun to ridicule 21st century Yankee steroid cheats Roger Clemens, Gary Sheffield, Andy Pettitte, and Jason Giambi. When Alex Rodriguez was outed last winter, it was a national holiday for Red Sox hubris.
Now this.
What can Sox fans say in the wake of this news? It reminds me of a scene in “The Sting’’ when con man Henry Gondorff (Paul Newman) gets himself into a high-stakes poker game with a raft of rich guys, including big-time gangster Doyle Lonnegan. Demonstrating masterful sleight of hand, Gondorff makes off with the pot. After the carnage, a frustrated Lonnegan tells his associate, “What was I supposed to do? Call him for cheating better than me in front of the others?’’
That’s pretty much the best argument for Sox fans now.
Our cheaters were better than your cheaters.
Nothing else flies. For the longest time the Sox flew under the radar of the steroid cloud. Big names fell, but the BoSox remained clean. The infamous Mitchell Report, compiled by former Maine senator George Mitchell, who happens to be Red Sox team “Director’’ (fifth from the top on the team masthead), barely acknowledged the existence of the Boston ball club as an MLB franchise. When Ramírez was caught cheating this spring, it was easy for Sox fans to contend that Manny didn’t start juicing until he went to the Dodgers.
Now this. Big Papi, everybody’s favorite, is on the list of those who tested positive for PEDs in 2003 - which just happens to be the year that his career magically turned around.
Ortiz was an average player when the Sox picked him up before the 2003 season. He’d been a big strikeout guy with the Twins. He could hit an occasional homer, but had a big hole in his swing. He started the 2003 season on the bench, playing behind Jeremy Giambi.
Overnight he became a baseball Rambo. He was the Dominican Babe Ruth. He was the greatest clutch hitter in Sox history. He got all the big hits in 2004. In 2006, he hit 54 home runs, bouncing Jimmie Foxx from the Sox record book.
He wrote a book. He opened a restaurant. He kissed babies. He was the heart of the team. He was a gentleman and a gamer. We all loved him.
He was also outspoken about steroids.
This is what Ortiz said in Fort Myers, Fla., last Feb. 16: “I know that if I test positive for using any kind of substance, I know that I’m going to disrespect my family, the game, the fans, and everybody, and I don’t want to be facing that situation. So what would I do? I won’t use it . . . you test everybody three, four times a year and that’s about it. You do what you got to do. Yeah, whatever they say. Ban them for a whole year.’’
It got headlines. Ortiz says one-year ban for players who test positive. It played well to the masses.
And now David Ortiz looks like one of the television evangelists who gets caught in a seedy motel with a hooker.
How could he have been so stupid? Or bold? He must have known. Players who tested positive in 2003 must have been told by the players association. Certainly, the PA should have destroyed the results, just like Nixon should have burned the tapes, but there was never any assurance the names would not leak. And there are still 100 guys who should be nervous about tomorrow and the next day. Hopefully, none of them have made comments like Ortiz made in Florida.
The timing and the numbers are particularly damning for Big Papi. He was ordinary before 2003. Then he cheated. Then he was great. Now there is testing and he is less than ordinary. You don’t need Jose Canseco to connect the dots.
As for Manny, what is left to say? When he got caught this year, Sox fans wanted to believe he started cheating after he left Boston. Now his entire career is flushed down the toilet. Along with Ortiz.
It’s horrible.
No more innocence.
No more fairy tales.
The 2004 Red Sox really were Idiots. Just like the Yankees and everybody else.
Our cheaters were better than their cheaters.
Yahoo.

Posted by: Triple Threat

Quote:

Originally Posted by min0 lee

Red Sox land All-Star slugger Victor Martinez from Indians

Certainly a good pickup for Boston.

Posted by: calalily1972

I'm so glad this is a much better game than last night! I cried last night. Just horrible!

Posted by: min0 lee

It's a good one.

Francona knew his chances with Smoltz were slim.

Posted by: calalily1972

It's too bad his career is probably over but OMG I wished we got rid of him 1 day sooner.

Posted by: min0 lee

At least they kept Billy Traber.

Posted by: calalily1972

OMG what a stressful and intense game!

Posted by: min0 lee

I had to step away from the screen a few times.

Posted by: calalily1972

Incredible game but I'm

we lost again tonight.

Posted by: min0 lee

Quote:

Originally Posted by soxmuscle

the Red Sox are just so clearly the superior organization to the Yankees, it's not even funny.

Posted by: IainDaniel

Quote:

Originally Posted by min0 lee

HAHAHA love it.

Posted by: min0 lee

The Yankees were never as bad as he made them out to be.

I love to come back to old threads and prove him wrong....I think he's still mad at me for it.

I really like this going back and forth with him, he is knowledgeable but his hatred blinds him and I think he relies too much on Fantasy baseball for info.

Posted by: min0 lee

Posted by: I Are Baboon

Jason Bay has gone nuclear this week. It's about time that ass bandit is hitting again.

Posted by: min0 lee

He was hurt wasn't he?
He was a good pick up for Boston.

Posted by: IainDaniel

yes he was/is

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