Thread: Natural versus Enhanced: It makes a difference.

Behar is 5'5" and competed at about 165 lbs., fwiw.

cutler should never win in mr olympia unless they change mr olympia to Mr Freak . All the current olympia BB cannot come close to people in the 60's 70's and 80's like serge nubret, samir bannout, lee haney, frank zane,etc....they had a shape not just an inflated trunk with some mass stuck on top of it with no shape, no transition between a body part and the other , olympias today look like a fabricated cartoon character.

I think Jay is a great champion, and at the cost of going off on a tangent, I just want to say that Cuts is the extreme. When he got started...scratch that. When he REALLY got started (2001) with his runner-up at the O, bodybuilding was very much mass monster dominated. You had Coleman at the top, a couple years later Ruhl would win the NOC, you still had Nasser in the mix; Jay needed to come in big as a house. So putting Jay next to anyone, I think you really see that contrast.

A tougher call would be Ronny Rockel or Dexter Jackson for the enhanced vs. a Skip Lacour or a Jeff Willett for the naturals. Clearly one group has larger muscles, and while both groups are cut, I don't think a natural can dry out as rigidly as someone taking diuretics (asparagus only goes so far).

To Bjg -- I was on a plane back from FL last night, and I was reading the latest Ramblin Freak column (in MD), and Greg was talking about gear, Arnold, and the 70's Gold's crew. He said they were natural year-round, save for 3months prior to the competition when they'd go see their doctor. It was a different time, with different nutrition, but Jay is as much a champion as Arnold. Natural or not, we need to show the champions some respect. They didn't write the rules, they just play by them (the ones in stone and the ones implied...).

Speaking of rambling..I'm doin it! I don't think we need all bodybuilding to be "natural," but I also DO think that Natural bodybuilding is a very marketable. And most women, would prolly want to go home with Jeff as opposed to Jay. If women like it, men will buy it.

Women loved Motley Crue, so men liked Motley Crue. If you don't get it, it's ok, just make sure to buy anything Vince, NIKKI, Tommy, or MICK record

natural bodybuilding rules!

i did not say arnold and others in the 70's were not on steroids and i do respect the efforts of jay but as far as pure body looks are concerned i think the way they are judging now is not right at all....olympia is not anymore about beauty and symmetry and shape..it is becoming about freaks and the looks of mr olympias for the last few years are really not what bodybuilding is all about and they send the wrong messages to the young new bodybuilders

^^^^ bjg, did you catch any of the Flex Pro show?

The judges totally trashed -- well, relegated to fifth place -- Eduardo Correa, a bodybuilder whose physique harkens back to the '90s. Correa's conditioning was insane, no distended gut, and not syntholed out of all human proportions.

Not a natty, of course, but if you object to competitors lacking "beauty and symmetry and shape" then you'd be a good bet as a Correa fan as he's got all three in spades.

Originally Posted by Curt James

^^^^ bjg, did you catch any of the Flex Pro show?

The judges totally trashed -- well, relegated to fifth place -- Eduardo Correa, a bodybuilder whose physique harkens back to the '90s. Correa's conditioning was insane, no distended gut, and not syntholed out of all human proportions.

Not a natty, of course, but if you object to competitors lacking "beauty and symmetry and shape" then you'd be a good bet as a Correa fan as he's got all three in spades.

He just needs a little more size on his legs- especially the hamstrings. Otherwise , he was the most peeled athlete on the stage .. I think the judging was laughable .. Seriously demoralizing the Flex Pro. They need to reevaluate the judges. These guys have been on the same panel for years!!!!

You know what? I asked more than once who was on the judges panel -- no replies. Lee Thompson is supposed to be on one of the radio shows to discuss the show. I wonder if he was the head judge.

Whatever. They'll never satisfy everyone, obviously, but, Jesus, Correa merited much more than fifth.

just saw correa ...not bad at all ,you are right he got robbed....i mean personally i am fed up with these distended guts and syntholed guys really it is becoming a joke.

Originally Posted by bjg

just saw correa ...not bad at all ,you are right he got robbed....i mean personally i am fed up with these distended guts and syntholed guys really it is becoming a joke.

legs are fine

arms are fine.

does this guy claim to be all natural?

Originally Posted by Curt James

^^^^ No, certainly never heard him make that claim.

We've entered reasonable thread drift mode at this point. I guess the thread was flawed from the beginning by including Cutler. Still, it's the comparison from juiced to allegedly non-juiced that was the point so I couldn't exclude Jay due to assumed AAS use.

What a waist of a good category. It would seam that people would come here to learn how to naturally build a decent body instead AAS bashing in every topic. effing elitist.

Originally Posted by Powermaster

What a waist of a good category. It would seam that people would come here to learn how to naturally build a decent body instead AAS bashing in every topic. effing elitist.

The boldfaced bit is the goal, Powermaster. I can't just delete every instance of AAS bashing or ban those who disagree. There will be a bit of give and take but hopefully more respect will be displayed between this seeming Hatfield versus McCoy gathering in the future.

Jason Ferruggia encourages lifters to workout intensely, briefly, and with focus on recovery. I've never read any pro AAS message from him -- just hard work and proper recovery.

Do you have any favorite authors or topics you'd like to see covered in this subforum?

Thanks for posting.

absolutely agree.

Are there any good youtube videos that highlight the difference between "natural" and "enhanced" bodybuilders?
I could not find any.

yes,it's hard to find.