The NHE and ONE - cut and bulk

cytrix · 08-30-2002, 10:57 AM

TCD Do you split your carb ups into 2 meals, as in the body builders NHE eating plan? You are loosing body fat nicely, even though you eat a lot of carbs on youe carb load - I am wondering,m if I could eat mre or should eat more - I stick with 1g/lb lean mass right now, because I am afraid I won't loose otherwise. What do you think would be a good amount for me? By the way, I LOVE YOUR JOURNAL! I hope you get your Y soon.

Robboe · 09-01-2002, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cytrix
TCD Do you split your carb ups into 2 meals, as in the body builders NHE eating plan? You are loosing body fat nicely, even though you eat a lot of carbs on youe carb load - I am wondering,m if I could eat mre or should eat more - I stick with 1g/lb lean mass right now, because I am afraid I won't loose otherwise. What do you think would be a good amount for me? By the way, I LOVE YOUR JOURNAL! I hope you get your Y soon.

Thanks, it's cool you're benefitting from it. It makes these time-taking updates worth it.

I split it into three meals. eventually, i think i'll drop the liquid carbs and just focus on real food. It'll prolly drop my total carb load down to the 220g region, cause there's just so much food you can pack in without feeling natious. Not sure when i'll complete that transaction though, since i'm only doing this for a further 7 weeks, i think.

As far as your carb loading goes, let me get back to you in a few minutes. I got a PM asking about the benefits of carbloads and i think you benefit from reading it. Carb loads actually assist your efforts. Trust me, I'm a doctor*

Well, London was ace. I've basically had a three day 'refeed'. Friday was a piss-take as far as food consumption goes. I ate a hella lot. Saturday is much of a blur, but i was getting into one of the bridesmaids, that much i remember.

I'm planning on getting my scanner from upstairs so i can post some photos up for you all to glimpse my annoyingly handsome, good self. There are actually some stills from the wedding on the net, courtesy of the official video director, who was constantly in your face. Unfortunately you can't really see me on any of the given stills, so there's little point linking them. I also have some other photos from recent outings and events that i'm gonna try and scan in. We'll see how it goes (ie we'll see how lazy i am).

Today my cals aren't gona be high as such, but they're certainly not in dieting region. Nor have i been on NHE for these days, too many carbs. But i'm back to the grind tomorrow diet wise and i re-start my campaign with a treat of squats and stiffs. What a beautiful combo.

More in a bit.

* Blatant lie.

Robboe · 09-01-2002, 12:50 PM

Ok, here's a snip from a PM from last week:

Quote:

Firstly, one carb load, which is relatively small by all standards, since you're only able to pack in so many in any one sitting without being natious, is not gonna reset your metabolism.

Personally, this whole metabolic shifting thing to me holds no water. I personally think (and this is my thoughts, which mean absolutely nothing as far as fact and/or science go) that the body prefers burning fat over carbs for the most part, but will happily burn carbs if it's getting the bulk of it's calories from them. I think Rob has included the 'metabolic shift' is for a few reasons: Firstly, it's got a fancy name, which dumb people think as 'magical' (a bit like ketosis is a 'magical' evirnoment) so there's the phychological aspect ie people will stick to something more if they think it's something special (ie it's not, you just eat less calories on it, so it works).

Secondly, it depletes glycogen quicker so you feel shittier for a less prolonged amount of time (depleting is an awful experience).

Thirdly, it makes people feel awful for a short time, so being on the regular downcycles feels better in comparison, thus they feel happier to know the 'worst' is over. And usually stick to it.

Also, you drop a shit load of water, take great heart from this as weightloss and stick to it (another phychological thing).

But few carbs slows conversion of T4 (inactive thyroid hormone) to T3 (the active hormone), T3 being a thyroid (and thus calorie) boosting hormone - ie more T3, more calorie expenditure via thyroid. A short carb load every few days either keeps the conversion happening, or may even 'upregulate' the T3 levels to higher than they were (doubtful, since any cal deficit drops leptin, and leptin pulls down thyroid and other things in cascading effect). Thus, carb loading is beneficial.

It also fills muscle glycogen stores so your weight training efforts don't suffer too much, and the insulin gets the IGF-1 involved, potentially either repairing and restoring muscles or building upon them.

The carb loads are also at night, before bed. This means you can realistically only eat so much before bed time, so you'll never really go over the top. I'd guess about 200-300g max in such a short space of time.

So, the carb loads aren't really gonna set you burning carbs preferentially again, not in such small amounts (by comparison). But like i said earlier, i'm doubtful you can really 'reset' your metabolism like that, purely from surroundings alone. I'd guess it's more of a genetic thing ie we're programmed to get the bulk of our energy from fat/protein anyway. (think primitive man etc...)

That cleared stuff up?

w8lifter · 09-01-2002, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy

Trust me, I'm a doctor*

Saturday is much of a blur, but i was getting into one of the bridesmaids, that much i remember.

* Blatant lie.

cytrix · 09-01-2002, 05:58 PM

Hey TCD, i'm glad you had a good time. What do you think regarding the amount of carbs I should eat, to maximally refill glycogen stores, but still keep fat loss at maximum levels too. Should it be based on your lean body weight in lbs? Rob doesn't really go into this.

Btw, are you gonna carb load after 3 days now, although you had carbs for three days straight?

Robboe · 09-02-2002, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cytrix
Hey TCD, i'm glad you had a good time. What do you think regarding the amount of carbs I should eat, to maximally refill glycogen stores, but still keep fat loss at maximum levels too. Should it be based on your lean body weight in lbs? Rob doesn't really go into this.

Btw, are you gonna carb load after 3 days now, although you had carbs for three days straight?

Well, to 'maximally refill' glycogen stores, requires full glycogen supercompensation. Basically, think the weekend on a CKD. That's how to do it. But then again, that's totally off limits with this diet.

Your carb loads are to just keep things running and provide a bit of glycogen for your training.

Rob doesn't go into it because this is supposed to be an easy diet to follow for the average (lazy) person, and countning and weighing stuff is something that most just can't be arsed with. Thus, the carb loads are just how much you can eat in 1-2 meals before bed.

I'm actually going to a house warming this friday, so there'll be no carb loads until that day, when i'll just count the beer as a carb load. I think i'll try and squeeze some rice or oats in there somewhere too. We'll see how it goes.

Robboe · 09-02-2002, 12:59 PM

Ok, did legs today. The Toon are playing Liverpool in a mo, and it's on TV so this'll be a quicky.

Squats: 160k [352] - 3
160k - 2
140k - 3
dropped: 100k - 8
dropped: 60k - 6

SLDLs: 172.5k [379.5] - 4! (A PR, had to really push for rep 4).
160k - 3 / 140k - 6

Hack machine: 75k - 4
60k - 5

Did some calf work and then finished.

I was suffering from some weird sharp stabbing hunger pains throughout this workout, which was well annoying.

I'm moving back into NHE mode and it's quite annoying. This depleting malarkey is such a nonce around. I've actually upped my volume a tad to waste some glycogen so i can get back to how i was quicker. Some may think crazy, but then again, that's them. And i'm ace.

And that's that.

hardasnails1973 · 09-02-2002, 05:15 PM

On carb load Chicky whats is your opinon of using ALA say like 1.5 grams ? ANy commnets I would like to hear.

Thanks hardasnails

Robboe · 09-03-2002, 01:29 PM

Well, i don't really know that much on ALA.

What i do know, is that it's an excellent anti-oxidant.

There's also the statement that it aids glucose uptake by muscle cells in muscles via the GLUT4 receptor. Of course fat also has this receptor, so from what i can gather, it also aids glucose uptake in fat cells. Whether this is totally true, i'm unsure. I'm also unsure whether this is a good (cause it may help with refeeding) or bad thing.

Robboe · 09-03-2002, 01:35 PM

My legs are hella sore from yesterday. Hams ad lower back especially. And yes, i realise my lower back ain't my legs, so no smart ass comments.

I trained push earlier. Good fun t'was.

Bench: 2 sets, first using 102.5k [225.5] for 5 reps. This actually equalled a PR, which is good in the sense that i'm still gaining strength bit by bit, but also bad cause a bench of that amount...sucks, basically. Compared to my other lifts anyway.

Weighted dips: 2 sets, first with 43.75k [96.25] for 4 reps. One down from last week. My first bench set musta knocked it outta me.

Decline machine press: just one set with 235k [517] for 7 reps, which, although i hit failure, is a lower weight than i'm used to usually using. (my god that sounds like a funny sentence with all those 'us').

Inclined flyes: 2 sets, first with 38k DB's, but i only got 3 reps so i dropped it a bit. Second set i used the 32k's. I got 6 and finished when those little black dots in my eyes told me the set was done.

Side laterals: 3 sets.

CGBP: 2 sets. Seem to be stuck on my heaviest weight with this. Most likely from so much pre-fatigure from other presses. Not something i'm worried about right now.

Again, you'll notice the higher than usual volume for me, since i'm trying to drop some glycogen to make this transition quicker. This also means no standard carb load tonight. No real carbs till friday actually.

cytrix · 09-03-2002, 04:44 PM

[quote]Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy

Well, to 'maximally refill' glycogen stores, requires full glycogen supercompensation. Basically, think the weekend on a CKD. That's how to do it. But then again, that's totally off limits with this diet.

Your carb loads are to just keep things running and provide a bit of glycogen for your training.

Rob doesn't go into it because this is supposed to be an easy diet to follow for the average (lazy) person, and countning and weighing stuff is something that most just can't be arsed with. Thus, the carb loads are just how much you can eat in 1-2 meals before bed.

Doc

, so what is a good amount to take in? I think w8 and DP's carb up meal come to about 1g/lb bodyweight. I thought, maybe it would be even better to base it on lean weight? How much total do you takein - I am asking, since you are loosing body fat and eating probably more than that, which will probably help you with your weight training.
Do you gain lean mass the way you do it, allthough you're also using EC and doing a lot of cardio?
Did you get your Y yet?

w8lifter · 09-03-2002, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy

this'll be a quicky.

Mmmm...quicky

Robboe · 09-04-2002, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cytrix
Doc

, so what is a good amount to take in? I think w8 and DP's carb up meal come to about 1g/lb bodyweight. I thought, maybe it would be even better to base it on lean weight? How much total do you takein - I am asking, since you are loosing body fat and eating probably more than that, which will probably help you with your weight training.
Do you gain lean mass the way you do it, allthough you're also using EC and doing a lot of cardio?
Did you get your Y yet?

Well, since there's no actual figure for it, why not just go with their carb up idea and see how it goes.

When i do a proper carb up i prolly take in about 250-300g, with the first 100g coming from liquid carbs. I haven't done a proper carb up for a week and a bit though, since the wedding and such has gotten in the way. I also jiggle a social life at the same time as dieting, so beer swilling usually gets classed in my carb ups.

I may be taking in more, but also note that i am bigger than you (not gloating, just stating fact). No real mass gain, no. As much as you'd like to, you don't add muscle in calorie deficit. Even though i cycle high calorie days in there, the anabolic effect really only maintains what i've built.

I only use Ephedrine once a week right now, since i haven't got many left. I'm currently on the hunt for some though. Hopefully i'll be able to take it more regularly when i do. I also only take the caf + L-Tyrosine combo just before any cardio. I'm currently off the cardio till maybe next monday night. I'd think about doing some on saturday morning to try and burn off some of the previous night's beer, but i'll have to see how i feel.

No Yohimbine yet, no. I'm thinking it might be stuck in customs. I hope it comes soon.

DOMS update: ouch.

Well, just my legs and lower back still. No real soreness in my chest, delts or tris - just basic fatigue.

No cardio cause of this soreness.

Pull tomorrow.

Twin Peak · 09-04-2002, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy

No Yohimbine yet, no. I'm thinking it might be stuck in customs. I hope it comes soon.

Chicken, Y is not something I am familiar with and I really liked your peice on it. Is this something that is readily available, like at a GNC? If so I am headed there in a bit and may pick some up.

What are the proper doses?

Robboe · 09-04-2002, 02:04 PM

I'm glad you liked it.

However, it is only a minor part of a larger article on thermogenic drugs and their effects on the body i'm writing for wbb.

I have a few ideas for other articles too. One i'm writing up right now is about dieting basics and how dieting effects the body and why getting lean and staying there is such a bastard. I'll send you a link when it's up.

I'm not sure if it's available at GNC, purely because there's no GNC's anywhere near where i live. The closest is about 1000 miles in your direction

I know you can get yohimbe from health shops over there (i think), but just like ephedra, if you want the potent part (like ephedrine) then try and find yohimbine.

www.1fast400.com is a place where you can get it cheap, orally and/or transdermally. In fact, it's uite a good website overall.

For dosing and such, check a thread i posted in for Cytrix. I'll bump it up for you in a sec.

The doses differ between orals and transdermals, depending on which route you take.

Twin Peak · 09-04-2002, 02:21 PM

Thanks. I saw Yohimbe in GNC but not Yohimbine.

Robboe · 09-05-2002, 01:20 PM

Trained back today.

I can't be bothered to type up actual numbers, but the session was decent.

WG chins, BB rows, DB shrugs and i was done.

I must remember to weigh in tomorrow morning, cause my usual saturday morning weigh in is no gonna happen.

I'm off to a house warming party. I start drinking at 5pm tomorrow, to do some pre-house-warming pub warming lol.

Should be fun.

Robboe · 09-06-2002, 08:15 AM

I weighed in 4lbs heavier today.

Last week i was 200.5lbs. Today i weighed 204.5lbs.

Reasons?

1. Last weekend's away trip. Definately supercompensated glycogen. I definately spilled over. I know this cause on monday the fat around my abs was actually sore. I've had this feeling a few times before actually, usually the day after a total binge day (ie high carbs + high fat - sometimes 2 cheesecakes during this time lol. Ahh...those were the days...) So i'm still holding some from then.

2. Weighing in so close to the weekend. I've only been back in calorie deficit for 4 days before this, so i wasn't expecting to be lower in weight. Tonight i'm drinking, so that'll most likely effect my weight further so i didn;t see much point in waiting any longer before weighing in.

Incidentally, this was my fifteenth weigh in since beginning dieting. It really has flew, i can assure you. Great for me actually. This diet has been much better than my last.

Since starting this diet (not NHE, just dieting in general) 15 weeks ago, i was 220lbs, considering last week's weight and not today's, that's 19.5lbs lost. And i doubt much, if any of it is muscle. If there was, i'd say 2-3lbs max. Which i'm extremely pleased about.

This week i've felt quite brilliant too. I attribute this to last weekend's leptin boosting and the lack of cardio this week. Definately feel better for it all round. Cardio will start up again soon though, if not tomorrow (depending on how rough i feel) then definately monday night after work.

I'm sitting here trying to think of things to do to take my mind off food. Whenever i know a carb load or a 'cheat' is coming up, for some reason i just wanna start it there and then, y'know. Like thinking, "i'm gonna fuck up anyway, so why not start now?"

I've had this feeling loads of times. But once i start, i know i'll just wanna keep on going and it'll push my cals for the day way too high. Especially with the drink. I'll also eat so much i'll feel uncomfortable and bloated for the rest of the day.

Just gotta take my head off it.

Robboe · 09-06-2002, 08:27 AM

Just had a few strawberries and i feel much better now.

kuso · 09-06-2002, 08:30 AM

I thought you were already feeling "brilliant"?

Robboe · 09-06-2002, 09:03 AM

Energy wise and well being, i am.

But when i know i'm gonna cheat it gets tough.

Even when i know i'm going out drinking or whatever, i still try to keep myself in fat burning mode as much as possible. I look at drinking or carb loading as more of fat burning halting, rather than adding fat.

ponyboy · 09-06-2002, 09:32 AM

Do you think the alcohol consumption may be lingering in your system causing some of the differences you noted?

Just interested in your thoughts on booze and how long the effects remain in the system, because I have read varying reports. How much, if at all could this be affecting thing on your end?

Robboe · 09-06-2002, 10:14 AM

I doubt it.

what is alcohol's half-life?

4 hours or so (or is it 8?) for every unit (ie pint or shot or glass of wine).

Even though i drank a shitload over the weekend (friday and saturday), i don't think it's still gonna be in me now.

I also dropped a lot of water over monday, tuesday and wednesday, although clearly not all of it. This i put more down to intramuscular glycogen than alcohol, although your theory is a perfectly valid one.

I do try to keep the boozing to once a week. Sometimes more if i'm not dieting. last bulk i was going out like 2-3 nights a week every week for like 7 weeks lol. Great fun, but i got fat.

Speaking of which, the house warming is soon, but we're meeting up at the corner house to do some pub-warming before we set off.

So...hasta la vista.

Robboe · 09-07-2002, 06:36 AM

No cardio today.

It's nearly 1:30pm, i've been up for a few hours and i've yet to eat.

I'm in a good mood though. I had a shower and stood infront of the mirror afterwards and had a proper look at myself.

I gotta admit, i'm probably the leanest i've been since i was a skinny little whipper snapper of about 6 years old (i've been hella fat for a huge portion of my life, hence, why i got into lifting).

From what i can see, my areas with most fat, as expected, are my lower ab region, just under my pectorals (nipple area, kinda) and lower back/glutes/hamstrings area.

Of course i'm holding bits of fat everywhere, but these have the most density of deposits. I wish this fucking Yohimbine HCL would get here. I've exchanged a few emails with Mike (1fast400) and we think it's actually been locked up. I've no idea why though, cause i don't think it's illegal over here. It's damn annoying.

If i was to stop cutting right now, i'd be pleased with how i've done. 14-15 weeks have flew by and i've stuck by the diets well. No full on cheat day, although i've managed to still enjoy my food. I'm not getting ready for a contest so i see no point in trying to get down that far. It's just a stress for my body that i don't need, and i'd prolly end up sacrificing muscle needless in the attempt. I'm quite excited about the next few weeks though.

The cardio will start back up this monday, i've promised myself. I've had a good break from it and let my body sort itself out. I also do legs tomorrow morning which i'm quite looking forward to.

Last night i started my carbs at about 4:30pm, having a small amount of dextrose with whey, and some creatine and CLA. Then sneaked a dream ice cream bar

and had about 2 bowls of museli and 3 weetabix. T'was nice. I'm actually debating in my head the point of carbing up on 'clean' carbs when food i like (ie cereals) seem to do just a good a job. It's not like i'm basing my entire diet around them, just filling myself with them bi-weekly and going to bed. It's not like they're gonna spur on any cravings, since i'm asleep by the time the insulin levels are falling and the ghrelin and NPY levels are rising. And i am one of the train beliving that a calorie is just a calorie (although they cause different effects, this could be a good concept for a debate or article --- just thinking on my feet [or seat] here), so i'm still undecided right now. Of course, there's only 5-6 weeks of dieting left for me, so i'm thinking it's not gonna matter much in the long run anyway. I'll be finished dieting by the time i've made my mind up lol.

Last night i also manged to have a takeaway too. Bag of chips and a slice of pizza. It really pisses me off. I know for a fine fact that the chances of anything eaten while under the influence has more potential to be stored as fat (since the body views alcohol as a toxin it must get rid of, thus, puts all other metabolism aside [ie stores it for later] and focuses on ridding the body of this toxin) and yet when i'm pissed i just think "fuck it" and eat anyway. Grr! lol.

Drank a shit load last night too. Someone just had to get the shot glasses out...

~~Many drinking games followed~~

My mate also has a pull up bar in his doorway, so we were being stupid with that. Twice i managed to bang my elbow off the chain's-sticky-outy-bit-of-metal and give myself a dead arm and hit my funny bone. It's still hurting today actually.

Funny story: some blonde bint friend of my mates was there. She was off her tits with the drink and getting more from the dial-a-drink service (they deliver alcofrol to anywhere at anytime - for a slightly higher price, naturally) and she'd bumped into me so many time that night. So as she walked past with her 20 squid bottle of vodka, i tripped her. Not with intent though, but fortunately, she fell straight into a walk, hit her head and smashed her vodka all over. So fitting. I was well chuffed lol. Daft cow.

I think i'm gonna try and eat now. I popped an ECA for fun earlier, to see how it would effect me. I feel kinda full of energy and yet totally fucked lol. This is paradoxical. Or something...

I'm listening to 'relation of command' by at the drive-in as i write this, and i promise it's totally tits. If you have kazaa, DL some of the music. Fucking genius. Especially 'quarantined'. If i ever compete, i wanna pose to that track.

Ok, i'm done droning on.

Wow, that's a lot of writing!

Yanick · 09-09-2002, 10:05 AM

Quote:

And i am one of the train beliving that a calorie is just a calorie (although they caus

09-02-2002, 12:59 PM	#127
Robboe Designer Supplements Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Newcastle Posts: 5,151	Ok, did legs today. The Toon are playing Liverpool in a mo, and it's on TV so this'll be a quicky. Squats: 160k [352] - 3 160k - 2 140k - 3 dropped: 100k - 8 dropped: 60k - 6 SLDLs: 172.5k [379.5] - 4! (A PR, had to really push for rep 4). 160k - 3 / 140k - 6 Hack machine: 75k - 4 60k - 5 Did some calf work and then finished. I was suffering from some weird sharp stabbing hunger pains throughout this workout, which was well annoying. I'm moving back into NHE mode and it's quite annoying. This depleting malarkey is such a nonce around. I've actually upped my volume a tad to waste some glycogen so i can get back to how i was quicker. Some may think crazy, but then again, that's them. And i'm ace. And that's that.
	Being held down by The Man

09-03-2002, 01:29 PM	#129
Robboe Designer Supplements Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Newcastle Posts: 5,151	Well, i don't really know that much on ALA. What i do know, is that it's an excellent anti-oxidant. There's also the statement that it aids glucose uptake by muscle cells in muscles via the GLUT4 receptor. Of course fat also has this receptor, so from what i can gather, it also aids glucose uptake in fat cells. Whether this is totally true, i'm unsure. I'm also unsure whether this is a good (cause it may help with refeeding) or bad thing.
	Being held down by The Man

09-03-2002, 01:35 PM	#130
Robboe Designer Supplements Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Newcastle Posts: 5,151	My legs are hella sore from yesterday. Hams ad lower back especially. And yes, i realise my lower back ain't my legs, so no smart ass comments. I trained push earlier. Good fun t'was. Bench: 2 sets, first using 102.5k [225.5] for 5 reps. This actually equalled a PR, which is good in the sense that i'm still gaining strength bit by bit, but also bad cause a bench of that amount...sucks, basically. Compared to my other lifts anyway. Weighted dips: 2 sets, first with 43.75k [96.25] for 4 reps. One down from last week. My first bench set musta knocked it outta me. Decline machine press: just one set with 235k [517] for 7 reps, which, although i hit failure, is a lower weight than i'm used to usually using. (my god that sounds like a funny sentence with all those 'us'). Inclined flyes: 2 sets, first with 38k DB's, but i only got 3 reps so i dropped it a bit. Second set i used the 32k's. I got 6 and finished when those little black dots in my eyes told me the set was done. Side laterals: 3 sets. CGBP: 2 sets. Seem to be stuck on my heaviest weight with this. Most likely from so much pre-fatigure from other presses. Not something i'm worried about right now. Again, you'll notice the higher than usual volume for me, since i'm trying to drop some glycogen to make this transition quicker. This also means no standard carb load tonight. No real carbs till friday actually.
	Being held down by The Man

09-04-2002, 02:04 PM	#135
Robboe Designer Supplements Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Newcastle Posts: 5,151	I'm glad you liked it. However, it is only a minor part of a larger article on thermogenic drugs and their effects on the body i'm writing for wbb. I have a few ideas for other articles too. One i'm writing up right now is about dieting basics and how dieting effects the body and why getting lean and staying there is such a bastard. I'll send you a link when it's up. I'm not sure if it's available at GNC, purely because there's no GNC's anywhere near where i live. The closest is about 1000 miles in your direction I know you can get yohimbe from health shops over there (i think), but just like ephedra, if you want the potent part (like ephedrine) then try and find yohimbine. www.1fast400.com is a place where you can get it cheap, orally and/or transdermally. In fact, it's uite a good website overall. For dosing and such, check a thread i posted in for Cytrix. I'll bump it up for you in a sec. The doses differ between orals and transdermals, depending on which route you take.
	Being held down by The Man

09-04-2002, 02:21 PM	#136
Twin Peak Peak Physiques™ Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NY Posts: 7,967	Thanks. I saw Yohimbe in GNC but not Yohimbine.
	www.DesignerSupps.com INTELLIGENT DESIGN™...lands on 1/1/2007 www.intelligentdesignmag.com

08-30-2002, 10:57 AM	#121
cytrix Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: chicago, il , usa Posts: 287	TCD Do you split your carb ups into 2 meals, as in the body builders NHE eating plan? You are loosing body fat nicely, even though you eat a lot of carbs on youe carb load - I am wondering,m if I could eat mre or should eat more - I stick with 1g/lb lean mass right now, because I am afraid I won't loose otherwise. What do you think would be a good amount for me? By the way, I LOVE YOUR JOURNAL! I hope you get your Y soon.

09-01-2002, 05:58 PM	#125
cytrix Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: chicago, il , usa Posts: 287	Hey TCD, i'm glad you had a good time. What do you think regarding the amount of carbs I should eat, to maximally refill glycogen stores, but still keep fat loss at maximum levels too. Should it be based on your lean body weight in lbs? Rob doesn't really go into this. Btw, are you gonna carb load after 3 days now, although you had carbs for three days straight?

09-02-2002, 05:15 PM	#128
hardasnails1973 www.Bodyfactoryllc.com Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Pa Posts: 1,740	On carb load Chicky whats is your opinon of using ALA say like 1.5 grams ? ANy commnets I would like to hear. Thanks hardasnails

09-03-2002, 04:44 PM	#131
cytrix Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: chicago, il , usa Posts: 287	[quote]Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy Well, to 'maximally refill' glycogen stores, requires full glycogen supercompensation. Basically, think the weekend on a CKD. That's how to do it. But then again, that's totally off limits with this diet. Your carb loads are to just keep things running and provide a bit of glycogen for your training. Rob doesn't go into it because this is supposed to be an easy diet to follow for the average (lazy) person, and countning and weighing stuff is something that most just can't be arsed with. Thus, the carb loads are just how much you can eat in 1-2 meals before bed. Doc , so what is a good amount to take in? I think w8 and DP's carb up meal come to about 1g/lb bodyweight. I thought, maybe it would be even better to base it on lean weight? How much total do you takein - I am asking, since you are loosing body fat and eating probably more than that, which will probably help you with your weight training. Do you gain lean mass the way you do it, allthough you're also using EC and doing a lot of cardio? Did you get your Y yet?

09-05-2002, 01:20 PM	#137
Robboe Designer Supplements Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Newcastle Posts: 5,151	Trained back today. I can't be bothered to type up actual numbers, but the session was decent. WG chins, BB rows, DB shrugs and i was done. I must remember to weigh in tomorrow morning, cause my usual saturday morning weigh in is no gonna happen. I'm off to a house warming party. I start drinking at 5pm tomorrow, to do some pre-house-warming pub warming lol. Should be fun.
	Being held down by The Man

09-06-2002, 08:15 AM	#138
Robboe Designer Supplements Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Newcastle Posts: 5,151	I weighed in 4lbs heavier today. Last week i was 200.5lbs. Today i weighed 204.5lbs. Reasons? 1. Last weekend's away trip. Definately supercompensated glycogen. I definately spilled over. I know this cause on monday the fat around my abs was actually sore. I've had this feeling a few times before actually, usually the day after a total binge day (ie high carbs + high fat - sometimes 2 cheesecakes during this time lol. Ahh...those were the days...) So i'm still holding some from then. 2. Weighing in so close to the weekend. I've only been back in calorie deficit for 4 days before this, so i wasn't expecting to be lower in weight. Tonight i'm drinking, so that'll most likely effect my weight further so i didn;t see much point in waiting any longer before weighing in. Incidentally, this was my fifteenth weigh in since beginning dieting. It really has flew, i can assure you. Great for me actually. This diet has been much better than my last. Since starting this diet (not NHE, just dieting in general) 15 weeks ago, i was 220lbs, considering last week's weight and not today's, that's 19.5lbs lost. And i doubt much, if any of it is muscle. If there was, i'd say 2-3lbs max. Which i'm extremely pleased about. This week i've felt quite brilliant too. I attribute this to last weekend's leptin boosting and the lack of cardio this week. Definately feel better for it all round. Cardio will start up again soon though, if not tomorrow (depending on how rough i feel) then definately monday night after work. I'm sitting here trying to think of things to do to take my mind off food. Whenever i know a carb load or a 'cheat' is coming up, for some reason i just wanna start it there and then, y'know. Like thinking, "i'm gonna fuck up anyway, so why not start now?" I've had this feeling loads of times. But once i start, i know i'll just wanna keep on going and it'll push my cals for the day way too high. Especially with the drink. I'll also eat so much i'll feel uncomfortable and bloated for the rest of the day. Just gotta take my head off it.
	Being held down by The Man

09-06-2002, 08:27 AM	#139
Robboe Designer Supplements Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Newcastle Posts: 5,151	Just had a few strawberries and i feel much better now.
	Being held down by The Man

09-06-2002, 08:30 AM	#140
kuso Um......get rooted! Elite Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: aka ( o Y o ) Posts: 15,033 Photos: 15	I thought you were already feeling "brilliant"?

09-06-2002, 09:03 AM	#141
Robboe Designer Supplements Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Newcastle Posts: 5,151	Energy wise and well being, i am. But when i know i'm gonna cheat it gets tough. Even when i know i'm going out drinking or whatever, i still try to keep myself in fat burning mode as much as possible. I look at drinking or carb loading as more of fat burning halting, rather than adding fat.
	Being held down by The Man

09-06-2002, 09:32 AM	#142
ponyboy Training Trainer Elite Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Running around somewhere Posts: 2,608 Photos: 1	Do you think the alcohol consumption may be lingering in your system causing some of the differences you noted? Just interested in your thoughts on booze and how long the effects remain in the system, because I have read varying reports. How much, if at all could this be affecting thing on your end?
	Today I can do what others will not so that tomorrow I will do what others cannot. The difference between winners and losers is that winners do things that losers don't want to do.

09-06-2002, 10:14 AM	#143
Robboe Designer Supplements Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Newcastle Posts: 5,151	I doubt it. what is alcohol's half-life? 4 hours or so (or is it 8?) for every unit (ie pint or shot or glass of wine). Even though i drank a shitload over the weekend (friday and saturday), i don't think it's still gonna be in me now. I also dropped a lot of water over monday, tuesday and wednesday, although clearly not all of it. This i put more down to intramuscular glycogen than alcohol, although your theory is a perfectly valid one. I do try to keep the boozing to once a week. Sometimes more if i'm not dieting. last bulk i was going out like 2-3 nights a week every week for like 7 weeks lol. Great fun, but i got fat. Speaking of which, the house warming is soon, but we're meeting up at the corner house to do some pub-warming before we set off. So...hasta la vista.
	Being held down by The Man

09-07-2002, 06:36 AM	#144
Robboe Designer Supplements Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Newcastle Posts: 5,151	No cardio today. It's nearly 1:30pm, i've been up for a few hours and i've yet to eat. I'm in a good mood though. I had a shower and stood infront of the mirror afterwards and had a proper look at myself. I gotta admit, i'm probably the leanest i've been since i was a skinny little whipper snapper of about 6 years old (i've been hella fat for a huge portion of my life, hence, why i got into lifting). From what i can see, my areas with most fat, as expected, are my lower ab region, just under my pectorals (nipple area, kinda) and lower back/glutes/hamstrings area. Of course i'm holding bits of fat everywhere, but these have the most density of deposits. I wish this fucking Yohimbine HCL would get here. I've exchanged a few emails with Mike (1fast400) and we think it's actually been locked up. I've no idea why though, cause i don't think it's illegal over here. It's damn annoying. If i was to stop cutting right now, i'd be pleased with how i've done. 14-15 weeks have flew by and i've stuck by the diets well. No full on cheat day, although i've managed to still enjoy my food. I'm not getting ready for a contest so i see no point in trying to get down that far. It's just a stress for my body that i don't need, and i'd prolly end up sacrificing muscle needless in the attempt. I'm quite excited about the next few weeks though. The cardio will start back up this monday, i've promised myself. I've had a good break from it and let my body sort itself out. I also do legs tomorrow morning which i'm quite looking forward to. Last night i started my carbs at about 4:30pm, having a small amount of dextrose with whey, and some creatine and CLA. Then sneaked a dream ice cream bar and had about 2 bowls of museli and 3 weetabix. T'was nice. I'm actually debating in my head the point of carbing up on 'clean' carbs when food i like (ie cereals) seem to do just a good a job. It's not like i'm basing my entire diet around them, just filling myself with them bi-weekly and going to bed. It's not like they're gonna spur on any cravings, since i'm asleep by the time the insulin levels are falling and the ghrelin and NPY levels are rising. And i am one of the train beliving that a calorie is just a calorie (although they cause different effects, this could be a good concept for a debate or article --- just thinking on my feet [or seat] here), so i'm still undecided right now. Of course, there's only 5-6 weeks of dieting left for me, so i'm thinking it's not gonna matter much in the long run anyway. I'll be finished dieting by the time i've made my mind up lol. Last night i also manged to have a takeaway too. Bag of chips and a slice of pizza. It really pisses me off. I know for a fine fact that the chances of anything eaten while under the influence has more potential to be stored as fat (since the body views alcohol as a toxin it must get rid of, thus, puts all other metabolism aside [ie stores it for later] and focuses on ridding the body of this toxin) and yet when i'm pissed i just think "fuck it" and eat anyway. Grr! lol. Drank a shit load last night too. Someone just had to get the shot glasses out... ~~Many drinking games followed~~ My mate also has a pull up bar in his doorway, so we were being stupid with that. Twice i managed to bang my elbow off the chain's-sticky-outy-bit-of-metal and give myself a dead arm and hit my funny bone. It's still hurting today actually. Funny story: some blonde bint friend of my mates was there. She was off her tits with the drink and getting more from the dial-a-drink service (they deliver alcofrol to anywhere at anytime - for a slightly higher price, naturally) and she'd bumped into me so many time that night. So as she walked past with her 20 squid bottle of vodka, i tripped her. Not with intent though, but fortunately, she fell straight into a walk, hit her head and smashed her vodka all over. So fitting. I was well chuffed lol. Daft cow. I think i'm gonna try and eat now. I popped an ECA for fun earlier, to see how it would effect me. I feel kinda full of energy and yet totally fucked lol. This is paradoxical. Or something... I'm listening to 'relation of command' by at the drive-in as i write this, and i promise it's totally tits. If you have kazaa, DL some of the music. Fucking genius. Especially 'quarantined'. If i ever compete, i wanna pose to that track. Ok, i'm done droning on. Wow, that's a lot of writing! Last edited by The_Chicken_Daddy : 09-07-2002 at 06:41 AM.
	Being held down by The Man