Becoming a MASS MONSTER

Double D · 10-20-2009, 01:17 PM

Alright so YM is going to not be so happy, but I am getting back into the bodybuilding state of mind again....urgh.

Heres the plan for 10 weeks:

Day 1
-Flat DB Bench
-Incline BB Bench
-Dips
-Flat Flies
-Cable Crossovers

Day 2
-Pullups
-DB Row
-Pulldowns (Different grip than used with pullups)
-Bent Over Rows
-Bent Over Flies
-Shrugs

Day 3
-Back Squats
-Lunges
-Extensions
-SLDL
-Leg Curls
-2 types of calve raises

Day 4
-Seated DB Shoulder Press
-Arnold Presses
-Upright Rows
-Side Raises
-Ab Work

Day 5 (All Supersets)
-BB Curl---CGBP
-DB Preacher---DB Extensions
-Hammer Curls---Rope Extensions
-Farmer Walks---Reverse Curls---Kickbacks

Days 6 and 7 are off

Periodzation:

Weeks 1-3: 3x10-12; RI-60 secs, Tempo is 3/1/X
Weeks 4-6: 4x8; RI-90 Seconds, Tempo is 4/1/X
Weeks 7-9: 4x6; RI-120, Tempo Controlled

yellowmoomba · 10-20-2009, 02:24 PM

WHAT ?????????????

Double D · 10-20-2009, 04:21 PM

lol....so then todays routine:

Flat DB
70'sx12 (Tempo 3/1/x)-3 sets
RI-You go I go (so more like 45 secs)

BB Incline
155x10 (Tempo 3/1/x)
135x10 (Tempo 3/1/x)-2 sets
* I was feeling very girlie here!

Dips
BW+25x6 (Tempo 3/1/x)
BWx12 (Tempo 3/1/x)-2 sets

Incline DB Flies
35'sx12 (Tempo 3/1/x)-3 sets

Cable Crossover from High Pulley
25x10 (Tempo 3/1/x)-3 sets

Decline Situp with 30lbs overhead
10
8
6

Romain Chair Stiff leg-ups
10
10

YUCK!

Archangel · 10-20-2009, 04:31 PM

OMG, can you say VOLUME??? Where are your rest days to recover and grow??? My body hurts just readin your routine, Best Wishes my Friend, you know I', just givin you a hard time!!!

Double D · 10-20-2009, 04:40 PM

Only hitting one muscle group a week....there will be ample time to recover. Besides its been ages since I have done this type of routine, it should work out well.

Stewart14 · 10-20-2009, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archangel

OMG, can you say VOLUME??? Where are your rest days to recover and grow??? My body hurts just readin your routine, Best Wishes my Friend, you know I', just givin you a hard time!!!

I wanna throw this out to you archie, since I know you are always preaching rest and recovery. If I do an exercise let's just use the bench press for example, and then do that same exercise let's say 2 days or so later, I ALWAYS exceed what I did the first day, and feel stronger doing it. this is a pattern that works for me, I can go maybe every other day with some exercises (UP TO A POINT) and make incredible progress, as opposed to doing the exercise, and then waiting a set amount of time for the so called RECOVERY to kick in.

I just wanna know what you think about them apples

Case in point. I did barbell curls for my last three workouts (cause I screwed up my plan). the first workout I got 2 sets of 5 with 115. The NEXT DAY, I came back and got 2 sets of 6 with 115. then 2 days later, I got 120 for a set of 6 reps, felt strong too. that flies in the face of recovery, you know?

Archangel · 10-20-2009, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malley

Only hitting one muscle group a week....there will be ample time to recover. Besides its been ages since I have done this type of routine, it should work out well.

Best Wishes my Friend!!! Not tryin to ruffle anyone here, I sincerely hope for the best for each of you!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stewart14

I wanna throw this out to you archie, since I know you are always preaching rest and recovery. If I do an exercise let's just use the bench press for example, and then do that same exercise let's say 2 days or so later, I ALWAYS exceed what I did the first day, and feel stronger doing it. this is a pattern that works for me, I can go maybe every other day with some exercises (UP TO A POINT) and make incredible progress, as opposed to doing the exercise, and then waiting a set amount of time for the so called RECOVERY to kick in.

I just wanna know what you think about them apples

Case in point. I did barbell curls for my last three workouts (cause I screwed up my plan). the first workout I got 2 sets of 5 with 115. The NEXT DAY, I came back and got 2 sets of 6 with 115. then 2 days later, I got 120 for a set of 6 reps, felt strong too. that flies in the face of recovery, you know?

I agree, UP TO A POINT like you said!!! Consider this, when you lift weights its like digging a ditch, your digging deeper and deeper, much like your muscles when you tear them down, now when does actual growth occur??? It's not when your working out (at the gym) right??? Its ONLY when the ditch (muscle) is completely full so why dig (work out) again until its full (recovered), thats my thinking on it, now I understand that you say your stronger when you do what you do, I agree and understand that, but even you said TO A POINT!!! So fly this one if you will, workout hard, intense and give yourself 3-4 days rest, trust me if you work hard enough, you will require those rest days, and then workout again, i guarantee you will BLOW what you did away!!!

Burner02 · 10-20-2009, 10:48 PM

Hey D! (old habits)

Let me know how this is gonna work!
I"m gonna go back to this type workout at the begining of month. Do it for a month and then go back to a 'planes' workout and/or the p-funk method of:
push something, pull something and then do something for legs for a couple months...

Double D · 10-20-2009, 10:58 PM

Heres the way I see it: If your doing something one way for a good period of time its time to switch things up.....hence periodzation. I have been working out 3-4 days a week, 10-20 mins each workout. So now I switch it up to 5 days a week at about 45 minutes each workout, but much less intense (Intense as work capacity and aerobic capacity). We will see how it goes. I am looking for size, I honestly dont care about strength on this one.

Burner02 · 10-20-2009, 11:33 PM

That's the way I'm looking at it. Take the month to build up mass, the next two to add strength/ and w/ shorter RI's...cut it up a little...if that makes sense.

Stewart14 · 10-21-2009, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malley

Heres the way I see it: If your doing something one way for a good period of time its time to switch things up.....hence periodzation. I have been working out 3-4 days a week, 10-20 mins each workout. So now I switch it up to 5 days a week at about 45 minutes each workout, but much less intense (Intense as work capacity and aerobic capacity). We will see how it goes. I am looking for size, I honestly dont care about strength on this one.

see, here's where I have a problem. You say you are looking for size...ok, well how much bigger do you actually think you're going to get? you're a natural lifter, you have a ceiling, and personally, for us naturals, I think it's more important to keep up the strength base and let the size part just take care of itself, as opposed to "training for size". I feel that's a fallacy created by people who are on steroids who can make those huge size gains by doing sets of 10-12 reps with a low to moderate weight.

you just benched 405, let me check to see if I can find any small people who can do this....ok, um nope, couldn't find any. Now, if you want to change things up to get more conditioned, or more strength endurance, then go for it, but I find to claim you are going to do sets of 12 for "size" is bogus, at least for people like us.

Double D · 10-21-2009, 10:46 AM

Well if thats the case the same goes for strength then right? I mean if thats your argument, then why lift for strength at all? By that I mean isnt there a ceiling for strength to?

Stewart14 · 10-21-2009, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malley

Well if thats the case the same goes for strength then right? I mean if thats your argument, then why lift for strength at all? By that I mean isnt there a ceiling for strength to?

of course there is a ceiling to strength, but I think the strength ceiling is a lot higher than the size ceiling, and I'm not talking about getting big by becoming a fat ass, but getting lean and big and muscular. All things being equal, I think you aren't going to get much bigger by doing a high rep routine in all honesty. I guess my main argument is that for a natural trainee, especially someone who has already reached some massive strength levels, dropping back to a fraction of that for more reps isn't going to accomplish much.

Of course, you know yourself better than I do, and whatever you think is gonna help you reach your goal, you go for it, but in my opinion I think you would be better off doing something with high volume and moderate to heavy weight if you want more usable size, something like 10x3 with 60 seconds rest between sets with 80% of 1rm. That will get you big and strong, I would do that exclusively, but it totally drains me and with 2 little ones at home, sleep is a premium, so I can't recover from it right now. But if you look in my gallery, the pic of me with my son in the stroller was when I was doing a routine like that, and i did look pretty big

Triple Threat · 10-21-2009, 12:01 PM

How are you now compared to that picture?

Double D · 10-21-2009, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple Threat

How are you now compared to that picture?

Round about the same. I'm a bit leaner, but thats what I was trying to do then.

Stewart14 · 10-21-2009, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple Threat

How are you now compared to that picture?

its probably close, but I know I have to be leaner overall now cause in that pic i was around 225 and now i am around 212.

I just can't do a heavy high volume program right now with the kids, I've tried to start it up a few times recently, and it just knocked me out, I felt like shit 3 days into it. I'll definitely go back to it in the future when the kiddies get older and I can have a more normal life (wait a minute, I have two kids, my life will never be normal again).

OK, maybe I'll just stick to the low volume I am doing now forever

Double D · 10-21-2009, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stewart14

its probably close, but I know I have to be leaner overall now cause in that pic i was around 225 and now i am around 212.

I just can't do a heavy high volume program right now with the kids, I've tried to start it up a few times recently, and it just knocked me out, I felt like shit 3 days into it. I'll definitely go back to it in the future when the kiddies get older and I can have a more normal life (wait a minute, I have two kids, my life will never be normal again).

OK, maybe I'll just stick to the low volume I am doing now forever

awww.....I answered Trips question he was asking you. I didnt know if you realized that my reps are decreasing week to week? I really like working with tempos, it seems to make me stronger.

Archangel · 10-21-2009, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stewart14

its probably close, but I know I have to be leaner overall now cause in that pic i was around 225 and now i am around 212.

I just can't do a heavy high volume program right now with the kids, I've tried to start it up a few times recently, and it just knocked me out, I felt like shit 3 days into it. I'll definitely go back to it in the future when the kiddies get older and I can have a more normal life (wait a minute, I have two kids, my life will never be normal again).

OK, maybe I'll just stick to the low volume I am doing now forever

Can I suggest a HIT routine???

JerseyDevil · 10-21-2009, 05:07 PM

This is a great discussion! Keep it going. My genetics and strength suck, unlike you guys.

My 2 cents... I try not to over analyze things, but I am with Stewart on this one.

At 53, lowering the weight and increasing reps to the 10-12, or even 13-15 range, does absolutely nothing for size, for me. It does seem to make me harder though, with all others things being equal.

On the other hand, making a concerted effort to concentrate on low rep stuff, without a doubt increases my strength.

Triple Threat · 10-21-2009, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archangel

Can I suggest a HIT routine???

Double D · 10-21-2009, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerseyDevil

This is a great discussion! Keep it going. My genetics and strength suck, unlike you guys.

My 2 cents... I try not to over analyze things, but I am with Stewart on this one.

At 53, lowering the weight and increasing reps to the 10-12, or even 13-15 range, does absolutely nothing for size, for me. It does seem to make me harder though, with all others things being equal.

On the other hand, making a concerted effort to concentrate on low rep stuff, without a doubt increases my strength.

Well if you like at my program as a whole you will notice its not just 10-12 reps, theres a tempo also. Along with the weeks to come I get to 6 reps. So I just switch things up before my body adapts. If people say drop high reps all together, what does that leave us with? Just low reps all the time?

JerseyDevil · 10-21-2009, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stewart14

see, here's where I have a problem. You say you are looking for size...ok, well how much bigger do you actually think you're going to get? you're a natural lifter, you have a ceiling, and personally, for us naturals, I think it's more important to keep up the strength base and let the size part just take care of itself, as opposed to "training for size". I feel that's a fallacy created by people who are on steroids who can make those huge size gains by doing sets of 10-12 reps with a low to moderate weight.

you just benched 405, let me check to see if I can find any small people who can do this....ok, um nope, couldn't find any. Now, if you want to change things up to get more conditioned, or more strength endurance, then go for it, but I find to claim you are going to do sets of 12 for "size" is bogus, at least for people like us.

I was referring to this post..

Double D · 10-21-2009, 05:38 PM

Back Squat-Tempo 3/1/x. 60 sec ri
225x12
245x12
275x10

DB Lunges-Tempo and ri the same
50'sx10 per leg
40'sx10 per leg (2 sets)

Leg extensions-Tempo and ri the same
3 sets, no clue on weight

SLDL-Same tempo and ri
185x10 (3 sets)

Leg Curls-Same tempo and ri

PUKEY!
160x10 (3 sets)

Stewart14 · 10-21-2009, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malley

Well if you like at my program as a whole you will notice its not just 10-12 reps, theres a tempo also. Along with the weeks to come I get to 6 reps. So I just switch things up before my body adapts. If people say drop high reps all together, what does that leave us with? Just low reps all the time?

low reps FTW!!!

I get nothing out of high reps, nada, zilch, except a very tired man. My new program is short and sweet and keeping me fresh. My strength is going up very rapidly on this.

now this isn't a knock on high volume because like I said, I would be doing it if I didn't have the kids, but it's a knock on high rep volume...complete waste of time for us. High weight, high volume managed with low reps and high sets NOT to failure, now that is the way to go, but this is your journal DD, err Malley, so I'll stop shitting in it now and wish you luck in what you do and cheer you on, even though I disagree

Double D · 10-21-2009, 06:49 PM

lol.....do you think maybe its possible that the reason you never saw any progress with these types of reps maybe because you never stuck to it long enough? You normally start on something new and only last 1-2 weeks or so then back to the same ole. Now dont get me wrong I have done the same thing with Crossfits for a very long time, along with lifting heavy. Thats what I enjoy the most, but in this case I am going to log my measurements and go from there.

Stewart14 · 10-21-2009, 07:23 PM

yes definitely log your measurements, I am still curious at heart. BUT, you have to note if you do anything differently, such as eating more while doing this. See, I can see that this type of routine could make you hungrier, therefore you might eat more, therefore, you might grow more, and then attribute it to this workout.

You would have to do an experiment in the future where you did exclusively low rep high weight training with the same diet as you had for the higher rep training and see what the results would be

Burner02 · 10-22-2009, 01:32 AM

I'm liking this...getting some good info, fellas. Stew! looking SWOLE!

Double D · 10-22-2009, 04:13 PM

Everything with a tempo of 3/1/x

Seated Shoulder Press
60'sx12
65'sx10 (2 sets)

Arnold Presses
40'sx10 (3 sets)

Upright Rows
80x10
70x12 (3 sets)

Side Raises
20'sx10 (3 sets)

One arm Shurgs
135x10 (3 sets)

Calve Raises on Leg Press
10 platesx12 (5 sets)

Archangel · 10-22-2009, 05:11 PM

Good lookin workout my Friend!!! NICE DB Presses!!!

yellowmoomba · 10-22-2009, 06:17 PM

That's a lot of shoulder work

10-20-2009, 01:17 PM	#1
Double D Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 10,459 Photos: 1	Becoming a MASS MONSTER Alright so YM is going to not be so happy, but I am getting back into the bodybuilding state of mind again....urgh. Heres the plan for 10 weeks: Day 1 -Flat DB Bench -Incline BB Bench -Dips -Flat Flies -Cable Crossovers Day 2 -Pullups -DB Row -Pulldowns (Different grip than used with pullups) -Bent Over Rows -Bent Over Flies -Shrugs Day 3 -Back Squats -Lunges -Extensions -SLDL -Leg Curls -2 types of calve raises Day 4 -Seated DB Shoulder Press -Arnold Presses -Upright Rows -Side Raises -Ab Work Day 5 (All Supersets) -BB Curl---CGBP -DB Preacher---DB Extensions -Hammer Curls---Rope Extensions -Farmer Walks---Reverse Curls---Kickbacks Days 6 and 7 are off Periodzation: Weeks 1-3: 3x10-12; RI-60 secs, Tempo is 3/1/X Weeks 4-6: 4x8; RI-90 Seconds, Tempo is 4/1/X Weeks 7-9: 4x6; RI-120, Tempo Controlled

10-20-2009, 02:24 PM	#2
yellowmoomba YM Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Michigan Posts: 6,283 Photos: 2	WHAT ????????????? http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/on...-bag-work.html "You are born small and weak... you die small and weak... how you look in between is up to you."

10-20-2009, 04:31 PM	#4
Archangel High Intensity Freak Elite Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Intensity Island Posts: 10,529 Photos: 4	OMG, can you say VOLUME??? Where are your rest days to recover and grow??? My body hurts just readin your routine, Best Wishes my Friend, you know I', just givin you a hard time!!! "I can do ALL things through Christ, who strengthens me" - Philippians 4:13 "For NOTHING is impossible with GOD" - Luke 1:37

10-20-2009, 10:48 PM	#8
Burner02 Super Hero in Training Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Kabul, Afghanistan Posts: 29,642	Hey D! (old habits) Let me know how this is gonna work! I"m gonna go back to this type workout at the begining of month. Do it for a month and then go back to a 'planes' workout and/or the p-funk method of: push something, pull something and then do something for legs for a couple months... Success leaves clues. People who produce outstanding results do specific things to create those results Nobody cares what you did yesterday or what you are going to do tomorrow. What is important is what you are doing NOW to solve our problem THERE IS NO TOMORROW! - Appollo Creed

10-20-2009, 11:33 PM	#10
Burner02 Super Hero in Training Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Kabul, Afghanistan Posts: 29,642	That's the way I'm looking at it. Take the month to build up mass, the next two to add strength/ and w/ shorter RI's...cut it up a little...if that makes sense. Success leaves clues. People who produce outstanding results do specific things to create those results Nobody cares what you did yesterday or what you are going to do tomorrow. What is important is what you are doing NOW to solve our problem THERE IS NO TOMORROW! - Appollo Creed

10-20-2009, 04:21 PM	#3
Double D Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 10,459 Photos: 1	lol....so then todays routine: Flat DB 70'sx12 (Tempo 3/1/x)-3 sets RI-You go I go (so more like 45 secs) BB Incline 155x10 (Tempo 3/1/x) 135x10 (Tempo 3/1/x)-2 sets * I was feeling very girlie here! Dips BW+25x6 (Tempo 3/1/x) BWx12 (Tempo 3/1/x)-2 sets Incline DB Flies 35'sx12 (Tempo 3/1/x)-3 sets Cable Crossover from High Pulley 25x10 (Tempo 3/1/x)-3 sets Decline Situp with 30lbs overhead 10 8 6 Romain Chair Stiff leg-ups 10 10 YUCK!

10-20-2009, 04:40 PM	#5
Double D Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 10,459 Photos: 1	Only hitting one muscle group a week....there will be ample time to recover. Besides its been ages since I have done this type of routine, it should work out well.

10-20-2009, 10:58 PM	#9
Double D Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 10,459 Photos: 1	Heres the way I see it: If your doing something one way for a good period of time its time to switch things up.....hence periodzation. I have been working out 3-4 days a week, 10-20 mins each workout. So now I switch it up to 5 days a week at about 45 minutes each workout, but much less intense (Intense as work capacity and aerobic capacity). We will see how it goes. I am looking for size, I honestly dont care about strength on this one.

10-21-2009, 10:46 AM	#12
Double D Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 10,459 Photos: 1	Well if thats the case the same goes for strength then right? I mean if thats your argument, then why lift for strength at all? By that I mean isnt there a ceiling for strength to? Last edited by Double D : 10-21-2009 at 11:19 AM.

10-21-2009, 12:01 PM	#14
Triple Threat End of the world Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lost Posts: 10,444 Photos: 6	How are you now compared to that picture?

10-21-2009, 05:07 PM	#19
JerseyDevil GO Buckeyes! Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Southern, NJ Posts: 5,586	This is a great discussion! Keep it going. My genetics and strength suck, unlike you guys. My 2 cents... I try not to over analyze things, but I am with Stewart on this one. At 53, lowering the weight and increasing reps to the 10-12, or even 13-15 range, does absolutely nothing for size, for me. It does seem to make me harder though, with all others things being equal. On the other hand, making a concerted effort to concentrate on low rep stuff, without a doubt increases my strength.

10-21-2009, 05:38 PM	#23
Double D Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 10,459 Photos: 1	Back Squat-Tempo 3/1/x. 60 sec ri 225x12 245x12 275x10 DB Lunges-Tempo and ri the same 50'sx10 per leg 40'sx10 per leg (2 sets) Leg extensions-Tempo and ri the same 3 sets, no clue on weight SLDL-Same tempo and ri 185x10 (3 sets) Leg Curls-Same tempo and ri PUKEY! 160x10 (3 sets)

10-21-2009, 06:49 PM	#25
Double D Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 10,459 Photos: 1	lol.....do you think maybe its possible that the reason you never saw any progress with these types of reps maybe because you never stuck to it long enough? You normally start on something new and only last 1-2 weeks or so then back to the same ole. Now dont get me wrong I have done the same thing with Crossfits for a very long time, along with lifting heavy. Thats what I enjoy the most, but in this case I am going to log my measurements and go from there.

10-21-2009, 07:23 PM	#26
Stewart14 Weapon of Choice Elite Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: in my home gym Posts: 3,604 Photos: 2	yes definitely log your measurements, I am still curious at heart. BUT, you have to note if you do anything differently, such as eating more while doing this. See, I can see that this type of routine could make you hungrier, therefore you might eat more, therefore, you might grow more, and then attribute it to this workout. You would have to do an experiment in the future where you did exclusively low rep high weight training with the same diet as you had for the higher rep training and see what the results would be http://futuretrainer.blogspot.com/ --My new blog!!

10-22-2009, 01:32 AM	#27
Burner02 Super Hero in Training Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Kabul, Afghanistan Posts: 29,642	I'm liking this...getting some good info, fellas. Stew! looking SWOLE! Success leaves clues. People who produce outstanding results do specific things to create those results Nobody cares what you did yesterday or what you are going to do tomorrow. What is important is what you are doing NOW to solve our problem THERE IS NO TOMORROW! - Appollo Creed

10-22-2009, 04:13 PM	#28
Double D Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 10,459 Photos: 1	Everything with a tempo of 3/1/x Seated Shoulder Press 60'sx12 65'sx10 (2 sets) Arnold Presses 40'sx10 (3 sets) Upright Rows 80x10 70x12 (3 sets) Side Raises 20'sx10 (3 sets) One arm Shurgs 135x10 (3 sets) Calve Raises on Leg Press 10 platesx12 (5 sets)

10-22-2009, 05:11 PM	#29
Archangel High Intensity Freak Elite Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Intensity Island Posts: 10,529 Photos: 4	Good lookin workout my Friend!!! NICE DB Presses!!! "I can do ALL things through Christ, who strengthens me" - Philippians 4:13 "For NOTHING is impossible with GOD" - Luke 1:37

10-22-2009, 06:17 PM	#30
yellowmoomba YM Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Michigan Posts: 6,283 Photos: 2	That's a lot of shoulder work http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/on...-bag-work.html "You are born small and weak... you die small and weak... how you look in between is up to you."

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