Thread: Back and Ready to Attack !!

Im as "scattered" as you jenny, never counted a calorie in my life, rather watch paint dry. I just eat well and train hard, much more fun.

Originally Posted by Pylon

Hey, you're ahead of most people. Nothing to apologize for!

Thanks P!

Originally Posted by omerta2010

I like to call this "Controlled Chaos"glad I'm not the only one.

I like that term

Originally Posted by Built

10% more than what she was eating now will bring her calories from 1300 to 1430.

Jenny's 140 lbs and (she just said) 15% bodyfat, so she's carrying 119 lbs lean mass (same as me!). Her maintenance should surely be about 15 times her bodyweight, which works out to 2100. If she's been at 1300 a day for a long time, she's going to have to creep those calories up slowly or she won't partition well - it'll all go to fat stores at first. A thousand calories a day over what she's been eating, that's going to put a few pounds of fat on her in a week, no question. It will however slow down, eventually. The transition from extreme cutting to bulking really needs to be slow. I'd probably go to 1500 for the first week, then 1700 for another week, then 2000 for a few weeks and then creep them up slowly while she figures out what maintenance is. But she's not tracking calories, so this is pretty much an academic exercise on my part.

I'm not on a time-crunch either. I just like to eat as much as possible, and train as little as possible.

Ah, so you might not have been as low as 1300 then! THANK GOD!

That's the dream, yep. That's what I want too.

I meant with such low calories. I didn't realize you were the same size as I am, and have the same lean mass that I do. I am by no means tiny with 119 lbs of lean - I can't get jackets or blouses or jeans to fit anymore because I'm so muscular. You either run into the same problems, or you're a lot taller than I am LOL!

That's not what I meant. I wanted to know what your maintenance calories are. Mine at 140 are about 2200 and I'm older and less active than you are, so surely yours are higher than 2300, and that's what you said you were bulking at. Hence my question.

What's more important to you Jenny - the pukey feeling, or results. I'm not being facetious here, there are a lot of people who find they must choose between enjoying their workouts, and getting the results they desire.

You were 140, then dieted and trained like crazy on 1300 calories a day and remained 140, and you are still 140? Honey, you need a better scale!

I'm sure I didn't interpret this right. How long were you dieting, and what was your start weight?

How do you play with them if you're not counting them? How do you tell?


Not really. It seems like a lot of light-weight, high-rep metabolic and isolation work and an inappropriate diet to support your goals.

It does seem planned out though.

The numbers and crap like that are my specialties. That's my favourite part. Ask anyone. I've set up training and diet for more people than I'll likely ever meet.
[/QUOTE]
I haven't shared my knowledge with you yet. You gain knowledge when you ask questions. So far, I've only asked YOU questions.[/QUOTE]

And I like to train as much as possible and eat moderate amounts

Your right in that I could have been eating more than 1300 calories. I believe that I dropped down to 1300 for the last two weeks of the 9 week diet down. Before that I was around 1600 - 1800 for a few weeks and 1800 - 2100 for 4 weeks. Honestly if you had not asked me what my calories were in this forum I would have never known.

Yes sometimes I have a hard time getting shirts to fit my back and arms BUT I am totally ok with that. The annoying part is finding pants that fit the thighs and booty without falling off of my waist. My tailor obviously loves me

Results are more important to me and I have cut down my volume but it was important to me to try out each workout to see how it fit .. and adjust from there. Therefore I will be sticking to around 12-15 sets per workout and just lifting as hard as I can.

I started this new journey in May at 150lbs and dieted down to 145lbs and dropped to 140lbs for the shoot. I am bouncing around between 140 and 145 now. I plan on competing around 147ish in April but want to be considerably leaner. If I have to get up to 160lbs to do that I will .. although I wont like it. lol.

I play with my calories given my hunger levels, recovery levels and how I look and feel. Basically add and take out foods but I am keeping it loose and somewhat unstructured right now until I start with my trainer October 1st.

Originally Posted by davegmb

Im as "scattered" as you jenny, never counted a calorie in my life, rather watch paint dry. I just eat well and train hard, much more fun.

Thanks D

you two girls are the same sizes? Oh, well then by all means stand next to each other, rip your clothes off, and we'll assess who's bigger, then put each others clothes on to see if you really are the same size. I believe this is a great experiment in theory and the majority of us would like to see this come to light-strictly for scientific purposes.

Jugg's all about science.

Jenn, how tall are you?

Originally Posted by Built

Jugg's all about science.

Jenn, how tall are you?

I was curious about this as well, though I thought I read it in her old journal.

I am at 158lbs standing 5'6, so the fact that you guys are heavier than I expected defiantely gives me motivation. I haven't seen any scale loss since I started, except for the past week. My thoughts were it was because I was losing some fat, but gaining so much muscle, so I basically sat around 165 for a month and a half.

Anyway, sorry to derail, I just wanted to say I appreciate the honesty, its very encouraging.

Call me the professor...



Built has by far, gone through the most amazing transformation in terms of being heavy to BUILT

Originally Posted by Muscle_Girl

I was curious about this as well, though I thought I read it in her old journal.

I am at 158lbs standing 5'6, so the fact that you guys are heavier than I expected defiantely gives me motivation. I haven't seen any scale loss since I started, except for the past week. My thoughts were it was because I was losing some fat, but gaining so much muscle, so I basically sat around 165 for a month and a half.

Anyway, sorry to derail, I just wanted to say I appreciate the honesty, its very encouraging.

Muscle Girl, I'll continue this with you by PM and return the discussion back to JennB.

Originally Posted by juggernaut

you two girls are the same sizes? Oh, well then by all means stand next to each other, rip your clothes off, and we'll assess who's bigger, then put each others clothes on to see if you really are the same size. I believe this is a great experiment in theory and the majority of us would like to see this come to light-strictly for scientific purposes.

Leave it to JUGS to make a comment like that. lol. Nice angle buddy

Originally Posted by Built

Jugg's all about science.

Jenn, how tall are you?

I am 5'9

Originally Posted by Muscle_Girl

I was curious about this as well, though I thought I read it in her old journal.

I am at 158lbs standing 5'6, so the fact that you guys are heavier than I expected defiantely gives me motivation. I haven't seen any scale loss since I started, except for the past week. My thoughts were it was because I was losing some fat, but gaining so much muscle, so I basically sat around 165 for a month and a half.

Anyway, sorry to derail, I just wanted to say I appreciate the honesty, its very encouraging.

That cannot be my old journal because I was never 158lbs I dont think...and I certainly wasnt ever 5'6 ... well a long long time ago I was
MG give it time and make some adjustments and I am sure you will see some changes. Are you relying soley on the scale or do you take body measurements and pics as well? The measurements help when the scale doesnt move like you want it to.

MG was saying she's 158 @ 5'6"

your weight is really great for that height Jenny. I'm 5'9" also but notttttt so ideal a weight.

and so true about measurements. i lost two pant sizes before my weight moved much when i started really working out.

I rely on the scale. It never lies. I weigh daily empty, naked and unfed. If the scale doesn't move in a week, I'm eating too much, flat out.

Originally Posted by Little Wing

MG was saying she's 158 @ 5'6"

your weight is really great for that height Jenny. I'm 5'9" also but notttttt so ideal a weight.

and so true about measurements. i lost two pant sizes before my weight moved much when i started really working out.

Ooooh my bad

I love when the pant sizes start dropping!!

Originally Posted by Built

I rely on the scale. It never lies. I weigh daily empty, naked and unfed. If the scale doesn't move in a week, I'm eating too much, flat out.

We will agree to dissagree here. If you start a journey at a low percentage of bodyfat and train hard and gain some muscle and you lean out the scale will not move much. If I have my before and after photos I would show you that at 140lbs pre-diet down and 140lbs post-diet down I DID NOT look the same. Its not so cut and dry unfortunately.

I'm more muscular now than I was when I started too, only I started out obese.

Point-in-time to point-in-time, no, the scale won't tell you shit. That's why for anyone looking to lose fat, weighing daily is so critical.

Women gain muscle very slowly, but fat gain happens FAST. Similarly, fat loss happens fast, too, or at least, it can. You follow trends for that one.

For example, suppose a fat woman starts dieting and training. She weighs herself daily, empty, naked and unfed. If the scale doesn't go down and it's been a week, she's probably eating too much. If it's been two weeks, she's eating too much, period. No matter how much muscle she thinks she's gaining, she can only gain at most about a pound a month, and that's only in the initial stages. But fat can drop at one or two (or more, if she's very fat) pounds a week at first.

So you track.

You lose three pounds overnight, that's water.
You lose three pounds in two weeks, that's fat. You keep doing that, some of it will be muscle, but most of it will be fat.

For a lean woman on a bulk, same deal. Track daily, monitor your gains, look at the trend line. After that first initial week, when you reglycogenate and probably fill up your colon a bit, you gain more than about four pounds a week, you're probably going to get too fat.

You gain three pounds overnight, that's water.
You gain three pounds in two weeks, that's fat. You keep doing that, some of it will be muscle, but most of it will be fat.

This myth of "the scale lies" has got to be put into perspective. The trend the scale tells is not a lie, and if you want to consistently meet your goals, you need to learn how to interpret trends.
With such a small potential for muscle gain, most of our weight-change, up OR down, will be fat. Because of how quickly our weight can fluctuate due to hormone status, for women, daily tracking is crucial.

Originally Posted by Built

The trend the scale tells is not a lie, and if you want to consistently meet your goals, you need to learn how to interpret trends.

Well put. And it can be applied in lots of areas of life!

Originally Posted by juggernaut

you two girls are the same sizes? Oh, well then by all means stand next to each other, rip your clothes off, and we'll assess who's bigger, then put each others clothes on to see if you really are the same size. I believe this is a great experiment in theory and the majority of us would like to see this come to light-strictly for scientific purposes.

Listen to the Professor!

Originally Posted by Built

I'm more muscular now than I was when I started too, only I started out obese.

Point-in-time to point-in-time, no, the scale won't tell you shit. That's why for anyone looking to lose fat, weighing daily is so critical.

Women gain muscle very slowly, but fat gain happens FAST. Similarly, fat loss happens fast, too, or at least, it can. You follow trends for that one.

For example, suppose a fat woman starts dieting and training. She weighs herself daily, empty, naked and unfed. If the scale doesn't go down and it's been a week, she's probably eating too much. If it's been two weeks, she's eating too much, period. No matter how much muscle she thinks she's gaining, she can only gain at most about a pound a month, and that's only in the initial stages. But fat can drop at one or two (or more, if she's very fat) pounds a week at first.

So you track.

You lose three pounds overnight, that's water.
You lose three pounds in two weeks, that's fat. You keep doing that, some of it will be muscle, but most of it will be fat.

For a lean woman on a bulk, same deal. Track daily, monitor your gains, look at the trend line. After that first initial week, when you reglycogenate and probably fill up your colon a bit, you gain more than about four pounds a week, you're probably going to get too fat.

You gain three pounds overnight, that's water.
You gain three pounds in two weeks, that's fat. You keep doing that, some of it will be muscle, but most of it will be fat.

This myth of "the scale lies" has got to be put into perspective. The trend the scale tells is not a lie, and if you want to consistently meet your goals, you need to learn how to interpret trends.
With such a small potential for muscle gain, most of our weight-change, up OR down, will be fat. Because of how quickly our weight can fluctuate due to hormone status, for women, daily tracking is crucial.

This makes sense, however it doesn't account for the human and emotional factor.

Everyone I help goes through points in time in which the scale doesn't budge for sometimes weeks at a time, and if I tell them it's all about the scale and the trend even if it's still going down but just not as fast as before they get twice as frustrated and eventually quite.

So I push them to take measurements and notice of how their clothes are feeling as a way to show them that they are still making progress. And the ones that do stay motivated and listen to the advice on diet changes and eventually push through.

It takes a really strong and motivated person to just use the scale to strictly judge and try not to overstress on the times you hit a plateau on the scale and then make drastic changes that are many times an overcompensation or end up being unhealthy.

Just my honest opinion, take it for what you wil.

Originally Posted by juggernaut

you two girls are the same sizes? Oh, well then by all means stand next to each other, rip your clothes off, and we'll assess who's bigger, then put each others clothes on to see if you really are the same size. I believe this is a great experiment in theory and the majority of us would like to see this come to light-strictly for scientific purposes.

I'll assist the professor with the analysis.

Originally Posted by omerta2010

I'll assist the professor with the analysis.

Piss off...this is my own fantasy-I mean experiment!

Tuesday, August 17 2010 (35 weeks out)

Training Summary: The adjusted workout program is going great this week. I am trying to get use to the lower volume and it leaves me a little unsatisfied when I leave the gym BUT I know that it will all be worth it in the end.

Shoulders
Arnold Presses: 22.5lbs x 14 / 25lbs x 10 (PB)
Upright BB Rows: 60lbs x 6 x 3
DROP DOWNS: Machine Laterals (single arm): 40lbsx30lbsx20lbs max reps
Cable Rears (love them): 7.5kgs x 10 x 3
Smith Military Presses: 40lbs 9 bar x 6 / 5 x 2

Favorite Part of Training - The arnold press PB
Changes for next week - up laterals weight and starting weight for Arnolds

Nutrition Summary: Food was a bit off because I was running around with my mother who is in town and I wasnt prepared .. no excuses .. bad on my part. I am pumped to have found some wicked supplements and have almost everything for my training now ... other than a wicked gym bag that I am lusting over .. but at $110 I have made this a goal gift to myself when I secure one more client this month !!

Pre-workout: Muscle Techs fruit punch Nano Vapor (mmmm good)
Intra-workout: Anabolic OD in fruit punch (tasty)
Post-workout: Waxy Maze with my Banana Cream Protein (tolerable)
*I also take 2 BCAAs pre and post workout

Deal of the Day - $20 tub of the Anabolic OD !! Woot WOOT !!
Victory of the Day - Hanging out with my mother and not blowing up at her once !! Trust me when I say that is a MAJOR feat for me
Favorite Food of the Day - my pre-workout drink .. sad I know lol
Least Favorite Food of the Day - tough steak
Diet Tip of the Day - new favorite green veggie ... spinach gomae !!

Daily Summary:
Highs of the Day - having a solid supplement and training program made just for me that is working well thus far
Lows of the Day - my sister being sad and me having a sore back from over doing it on squats Sunday with no spotter
Advice to Myself - Stay true to who I am and what I believe in .. take others advice into consideration and be gracious and appreciative BUT in the end I am responsible for my future ... so make it work !! (that part was from Project Runways Tim Gunn )

Originally Posted by JerseyDevil

Listen to the Professor!

Professor of what?

Originally Posted by omerta2010

This makes sense, however it doesn't account for the human and emotional factor.

Everyone I help goes through points in time in which the scale doesn't budge for sometimes weeks at a time, and if I tell them it's all about the scale and the trend even if it's still going down but just not as fast as before they get twice as frustrated and eventually quite.

So I push them to take measurements and notice of how their clothes are feeling as a way to show them that they are still making progress. And the ones that do stay motivated and listen to the advice on diet changes and eventually push through.

It takes a really strong and motivated person to just use the scale to strictly judge and try not to overstress on the times you hit a plateau on the scale and then make drastic changes that are many times an overcompensation or end up being unhealthy.

Just my honest opinion, take it for what you wil.

I like your opinion O .. thumbs up buddy

Originally Posted by omerta2010

I'll assist the professor with the analysis.

Professors always need assistants.

Originally Posted by juggernaut

Piss off...this is my own fantasy-I mean experiment!

Apparently he doesnt need help !! lol

I LOVE THE NEW JOURNAL LOOK! This is rockin'!

Like I'm an expert... BUT Smith Military? Drop the damn Smith and do free standing BB presses. So much better, because Dad said so!

Originally Posted by JerseyDevil

Like I'm an expert... BUT Smith Military? Drop the damn Smith and do free standing BB presses. So much better, because Dad said so!

OMG What is with the Smith haters in here !!! lol
The reason for the Smith Military is because its the last exercise to exhaust the delts and I give all I have left. I promise that the next routine will have Militarys sans Smith THANKS DAD

Originally Posted by JerseyDevil

Like I'm an expert... BUT Smith Military? Drop the damn Smith and do free standing BB presses. So much better, because Dad said so!

what he said...you just cant compare!

Originally Posted by JennyB

OMG What is with the Smith haters in here !!!

My old training partner used to use the smith on everything. Once I went on my own and based much on freeweights and Hammer Machines I started to grow considerably more. Plus the smith always gave me some ache or pain because of the plane of motion. Guess that's why I like dumbbells.

Originally Posted by omerta2010

My old training partner used to use the smith on everything. Once I went on my own and based much on freeweights and Hammer Machines I started to grow considerably more. Plus the smith always gave me some ache or pain because of the plane of motion. Guess that's why I like dumbbells.

I like DBs more as well but I also know that the smith does has its place and time. HATER #2

Originally Posted by juggernaut

what he said...you just cant compare!

HATER I totally agree BUT as a last exercise it forces me to keep some form and still push some heavy weight

Originally Posted by JennyB

I like DBs more as well but I also know that the smith does has its place and time. HATER #2

Have you tried the hammer stength ones?

But yes I agree it has a time and place, just not in my workout.

Originally Posted by omerta2010

Have you tried the hammer stength ones?

But yes I agree it has a time and place, just not in my workout.

No hammer strength ones .. but good alternative .. going to try them next week .. I appreciate you gettin on me in a respectful and helpful manner

Smith doesnt like you anyways lol

Have a good night O

Try Oly bar corner presses. You'll never want to do Smith presses again. Plus you'll age better. Believe me when I tell you to be good to your shoulders; you'll miss them when they are gone. I'd seriously consider ditching upright rows, while you're at it. Arnies however, are the bomb. If you're in the mood sometime, try a superset of Arnies with laterals, 8 of each. Killer pumps as a finisher.

Ever try cleans?