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**mattrage** · 03-31-2011, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by slow-90lx

Subb'd

With your diet Matt, I would be starving.

i am

**Built** · 03-31-2011, 05:00 PM

I'm half your size and I'D be starving. mattrage, you want me to move this thread to a journal or something?

**mattrage** · 03-31-2011, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by Built

I'm half your size and I'D be starving. mattrage, you want me to move this thread to a journal or something?

if you feel like it would be more appropriate...

**Built** · 03-31-2011, 05:15 PM

Let me know if you can't re-name it.

**mattrage** · 03-31-2011, 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by Built

Let me know if you can't re-name it.

it appears i can not... or im not smart enough to do it..lol

does this mean i have to post my workouts and such in here now? lol

**Built** · 03-31-2011, 05:51 PM

No, but you may if you wish.

**mattrage** · 03-31-2011, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by Built

No, but you may if you wish.

ok..lol ive never been very good at logging but i may try it once i get my gear and new diet

**XYZ** · 04-01-2011, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by Built

For cutting, absolutely - and I understand there's a cycling protocol for that.

Regarding doctors and the way they usually dose thyroid, let me remind you how they usually dose male HRT. Ask most doctors, and they'll go by the PDR recommendation: 200 mg testosterone IM every 2 weeks (yep, one 200mg shot every two weeks, for enanthate or cyp. That'll work well, hey?)
"For replacement therapy in the hypogonadal male, 200 mg should be administered intramuscularly every two weeks."
MAXIMUM DOSE
400 mg per month.
(You can read the product monograph for cyp here: monograph)

Believe it or not, thyroid replacement is usually done with even LESS responsibility. I'll spare you the soap box, but there are entire support fora dedicated to the (largely female) population of hypothyroid individuals trying to find appropriate care. It is so bad out there, that many give up and self-medicate, just like what we see in the male HRT population.

I'm not a very big person, and I take 100 mcg synthroid, 15mcg cytomel, and 90mg desiccated thyroid for my thyroid HRT.

T4 has about 1/4 the activity of T3.
Desiccated (natural) thyroid has a blend of T4, T3, T2, calcitonin and whatever else was in the pig's thyroid. One grain = 60mg for this drug; this dose contains 38mcg T4 and 9mcg T3. I take 90mg, which works out to something close to 30mcg T3.

100mcg synthroid is roughly equivalent to 25mcg T3. Add that to the 30 that comes from the 90mg desiccated and the 15mcg T3 I take as cytomel and my daily dose works out to about the equivalent of 70mgc T3 - and even on that, I have to watch my diet like a hawk or I gain too much weight. If I took it all at once, I'd have heart palpatations but if I took a smaller dose, I'd fall asleep by 2 in the afternoon every day.

CT, can we agree that thyroid is a very complicated drug to use? Its effects seem even more variable among individuals than are those of androgens. I like what thyroid can do, but I've learned through personal experience to respect it, if you know what I mean.

I now return you all to your regularly scheduled cycle question. Sorry for the partial threadjack - I'm very glad CT objected to the notion of permanent thyroid shutdown and that opened up a whole other can of worms. lol

Yes we can, and that should have been pointed out from the beginning. Like I've stated before, everyone is different.

I also agree with you about TRT Drs., I actually went to TRT 3 years ago and knew all about the half lifes, different esters and everything else, the endo I went to see told me 300mg every month, and that there was only one estered testosterone and they all have the same half lives.......That was the last visit to him ever. I did finally did find someone who knew WTF was up and have been happy since, but I agree with you that MOST in the field of TRT don't have the slightest clue.

We can disagee Built, it's just because we're both passionate about the lifestyle and all of the things that come along with it.

**Built** · 04-01-2011, 11:39 AM

Thank you CT. The only objection I had was your assertion of an appropriate replacement level based on what you were told by a physician.

That would be like ME telling YOU that 300mg test dosed once a month is replacement level male HRT because of what your former endo told you.

Thyroid "normal" levels are even harder to ascertain than testosterone "normal" levels - in part, because of what happens to the various hormones involved with replacement. Thyroid replacement is USUALLY T4 (Synthroid), which is then expected to deiodinate peripherally into T3. T3 requires no such conversion, and its effect is fast. One single dose of 25mcg daily might be the highest dose most people can tolerate all at once, but nowhere near what it needs to be to achieve euthyoroid status. T3 needs to be multi-dosed; most physicians prefer to dose their patients as infrequenctly as possible (case in point, your former TRT doctor wanting to dose you with 300mg test in one monthly shot) because they feel it enhances compliance. Hubby's on 600mg testosterone per month. He pins 75mg twice a week, and at that dose and pinning frequency he's replaced to the top end of normal, but that wouldn't have happened on one big shot a month, right? Same thing.

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