The Leptigen II Avantage.....

DaMayor · 06-09-2003, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Twin Peak
Doesn't matter, stick to what you are doing.

Really? This stuff must be good!

By the way, did we ever determine the duration of this test?

DaMayor · 06-09-2003, 01:49 PM

Twin Peak · 06-09-2003, 02:04 PM

No fair, you edited that after I read it.

I am guessing 4 weeks.

DaMayor · 06-09-2003, 02:48 PM

Good.

DaMayor · 06-10-2003, 08:32 AM

Has Par located the infamous missing components?

DaMayor · 06-12-2003, 12:27 PM

E'Hem.....

Twin Peak · 06-12-2003, 12:53 PM

Patience is not your forte, I see. You'd think you were paying for this.

DaMayor · 06-12-2003, 01:24 PM

Ah! A RESPONSE!

So, for those whom might also be interested in the product........

Any News?

Robboe · 06-12-2003, 01:25 PM

For fucks sake man - you've barely been dieting a fortnight. You can probably make leaps and bounds in the next 4 or so weeks without much problem.

DaMayor · 06-12-2003, 01:34 PM

Buddy, and I use this term loosely, I've been dieting a while longer than that....

Care to expound on the 'leaps and bounds' theory for the boys and girls?

Robboe · 06-12-2003, 01:45 PM

Apologies - i was under the impression you started dieting for this experiment.

'Leaps and bounds' - you can lose fat quite consistently for the first 4-6 weeks of a diet before running into any "real" problems.

DaMayor · 06-12-2003, 01:51 PM

I have been dieting for the past three to four weeks, however, more seriously this week than the previous two. Unfortunately, "leaps and bounds" is not the case....I'm stalled right out of the gate. (Hence the sense of urgency re: Lep II arrival) Par for the course. No pun intended, Avant fans.
Of course, I could probably spend more time concentrating on consistency rather than tweaking and second guessing.

Robboe · 06-12-2003, 02:06 PM

Stalled straight away?

You close to your setpoint or something?

DaMayor · 06-12-2003, 02:32 PM

Well, not losing any 'weight'...let's put it that way. Weighed yesterday just out of curiosity...gained a couple....from where I have no idea.
Close to my set point? Hell, I hope not!
Initially, I was working with a bastardized version of a CKD....High fat/Moderate protein w/ carb up during the weekend. This was the trouble, I believe....carb ups weren't clean enough (included a few cool ones) work outs lacked motivation, I wasn't recording things accurately....just a slovenly program.
Week two... tightened things up considerably...
Week three... began perusing this site and others, looking for my own personal SKD/CKD....rather, the best ratios......the missing link. Found the 'CKD' post here by one of the Mods, can't remember who...Mr. X and some chick.........anyway, I was giving this serious consideration until I spoke to a couple of folks here, who basically talked me out of it. The ratios fluxuated with little explanation as to why.
I've since been using a ~65%fat/~35%protein ratio, Zero carbs, no veggies.....getting ready to eliminate caffeine altogether, as well as alcohol (both are actually very limited) and have tweaked my suppliment program to include increases in chromium, fish oil, etc.

Robboe · 06-12-2003, 04:45 PM

Do you have problems sticking to diet?

Also, what gave you the idea to jump feet first into a low carb diet? Why didn't you stick with carbs, protein and fat (and fibre) and just adjust calories for a few weeks until you felt that the only remaining obvious step was to drop carb intake?

Robboe · 06-12-2003, 04:47 PM

Also, chromium (piccolinate) ain't really that great unless you already have existing blood sugar issues.

Fish oils are great.

Definately quit "drinking", but there's nothing wrong with a glass or two of red wine (or white if you lick that side of the stamp) during carb loads/refeed days.

Caf has benefits for fat loss also, but can be a bit two faced cause it causes cellular dehydration to a certain degree.

DaMayor · 06-12-2003, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
Do you have problems sticking to diet?

Also, what gave you the idea to jump feet first into a low carb diet? Why didn't you stick with carbs, protein and fat (and fibre) and just adjust calories for a few weeks until you felt that the only remaining obvious step was to drop carb intake?

I gave the Atkins diet a try, about a year ago, and with very good results.....12-14lbs. in a couple of weeks. Of course, at the time I didn't realize that most of this was water....Nor did I care to consider that when I quit smoking it would all be for nil.
The more "balanced" approach just didn't seem to do it....I stayed at the same weight for months, regardless of how I manipulated my w/o routine or macros.

Since then, I just attempted to read more, Lyle mainly, and alter my approach every now and then. The only thing that has interfered with my dieting is the frustration that comes with not knowing, or understanding why my system doesn't respond......Of course, this is often my own fault for expecting immediate results and making changes before the old body has a chance to acclimate to the current program. Live and learn, I suppose.

DaMayor · 06-12-2003, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
Also, chromium (piccolinate) ain't really that great unless you already have existing blood sugar issues. I agree, but I figured it wouldn't kill me....immediately. Secondly, my Doc felt that I might be insulin resistant, so I thought it might help

Fish oils are great. Yes they are. TP has been encouraging me to increase my intake..

Definately quit "drinking", but there's nothing wrong with a glass or two of red wine (or white if you lick that side of the stamp) during carb loads/refeed days. Recently, any "drinking" I would do was done during a single day of the week.....call it a "carb up" or what you may.

Caf has benefits for fat loss also, but can be a bit two faced cause it causes cellular dehydration to a certain degree.
I only take in about two cups a day now.....A few years ago I could drink a gallon a day.

Thanks for your input.

Robboe · 06-13-2003, 05:04 AM

When you tried your balanced diet and seemed to get nowhere, were you tracking calories everyday as well? And making dietary amendments (i.e. removing calories) when your weight went down?

DaMayor · 06-13-2003, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
When you tried your balanced diet and seemed to get nowhere, were you tracking calories everyday as well? And making dietary amendments (i.e. removing calories) when your weight went down?

Yes, I was tracking cals, macros, etc.....I never really reached a point where I felt confident to make any (deductive) amendments. I was staying pretty much at the same weight, or noted only minor fluxuations in weight....1-2lbs. in either direction over the course of several months. (I attributed this to fluid mainly)
Keep in mind, however, that I had spent a great deal of time re-setting my metabolism, and was initially conservative in any attempt to reduce cals. I wanted to do it right..........."right" however, is a term with a broad interpretation, depending on whose advice you're following.

Robboe · 06-13-2003, 12:51 PM

You should have dropped calories. For a week or so, it's an ideal situation, because it takes a few days for your body to realise this enough to drop leptin secretion, which is what really slows progress.

During these few days, your brain thinks you're slightly hypoglycaemic (cause of the lower calories) and so does stuff to promote fat burning - ideal!

Of course, it is when leptin drops quite low when this stops and fat burning enzymes, thyroid etc.. are slowly switched "off" and fat storing enzymes etc... are switched "on".

So like i said, generally, you can make quite good progress in the first four or so weeks of a cut before progress plateaus.

If you're so paranoid about losing muscle, then lower calories so ensure 1-2lbs weight loss for the first few weeks but include a refeed once a week.

Oh yeah - if you DO have insulin issues, you may wanna check whether LG is ok for you.

DaMayor · 06-13-2003, 01:16 PM

This is true. However, I really wasn't concerned with muscle loss as much as I was with damaging my metabolism again. I have since gotten over this paranoia, although I don't have any intentions of dieting haphazardly either.
My remark regarding insulin may have been a bit off base. The insulin issue came up about a year and a half ago. I was getting a routine physical, during which I complained to the Doc about having a hard time losing weight. The Doc, a younger, enthusiastic, well read individual, who I later determined might tend to go a bit overboard at times, made the comment that I might have an insulin related problem. Of course, diabetes is the latest and greatest issue, so he had been studying up a bit and was anxious to share the information. Not to mention the fact that I was then on the Atkins diet, smoked, worked in an office, sat on my ass all day, had no work-out routine in place......Basically killing myself. Secondly, the reason I wasn't experiencing any results via the Atkins plan was simply due to the fact that I wasn't doing it properly!

Currently, I'm doing a 65%/0/35% diet @20% caloric deficit....presently day 5. I am in ketosis,finally, showing light to moderate ketones per the ketostix, and will expect to have lost 1 lb. this week. If I can get the ball rolling like I did once before, I think I can lose 1-2 lbs. per week easily. Oh, I won't carb-up this weekend because I really didn't show any signs of ketosis until yesterday. So my plan was to carb up this coming weekend, then do weekly carb ups after that.
As far as reducing cals as my weight drops, I was hoping to do that while using the Leptigen II in hopes that the deficit would be more readily accepted by my system. (TP- insert reference to my stubborness here)

Whew! Can I babble or what!

Robboe · 06-13-2003, 02:00 PM

Well, you don't need ketone production to drop fat. You need a calorie deficit.

Regardless, what is this about you previously "damaging" your metabolism?

DaMayor · 06-13-2003, 02:38 PM

When I was self employed.....Ha! Now that's funny, considering that as of today I am again self employed...I digress...
Anyway, the type of work I did required a lot of travel time to each customer, a great deal of work/ no opportunity to stop while I was there, and travel home afterwards. I might eat a bite in the a.m., although this was a rarity. So, my day consisted of Coffee, work, and usually an unhealthy supper. I basically trained myself to work with very little fuel in the tank.
The first time I logged my dietary stats, I found that I was eating maybe ~1200 cals on a good day.....and drinking 20 gallons of caffeine laden diet drinks.
Needless to say, when I took my current (actually ex-) "office" job, and quit smoking, the shit really hit the fan.

DaMayor · 06-13-2003, 07:02 PM

Finally! Signs of progress! Weighed in on Monday, 242lbs. ...........weighed this afternoon...237. I realize that some of this is water, but I'll take it anyway.

Robboe · 06-13-2003, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DaMayor
When I was self employed.....Ha! Now that's funny, considering that as of today I am again self employed...I digress...
Anyway, the type of work I did required a lot of travel time to each customer, a great deal of work/ no opportunity to stop while I was there, and travel home afterwards. I might eat a bite in the a.m., although this was a rarity. So, my day consisted of Coffee, work, and usually an unhealthy supper. I basically trained myself to work with very little fuel in the tank.
The first time I logged my dietary stats, I found that I was eating maybe ~1200 cals on a good day.....and drinking 20 gallons of caffeine laden diet drinks.
Needless to say, when I took my current (actually ex-) "office" job, and quit smoking, the shit really hit the fan.

That much caffeine is bad, yes.

How long did this practise keep up?

("Fucking up metabolism" is something greatly exaggerated by the way. You can't do it permanently cause the body is basically too smart.)

And what would you estimate your bf% to be at right now?

DaMayor · 06-14-2003, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
That much caffeine is bad, yes.

How long did this practise keep up?

("Fucking up metabolism" is something greatly exaggerated by the way. You can't do it permanently cause the body is basically too smart.)

And what would you estimate your bf% to be at right now?

I did this for about 3-1/2 to 4 years.....

I am not sure what my BF is currently.....I'm sure it is much higher than I would estimate it to be.....so I won't estimate.
We'll try to get this checked out this week, I'm very curious as to what it is.

06-09-2003, 02:04 PM	#33
Twin Peak Peak Physiques™ Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NY Posts: 7,967	No fair, you edited that after I read it. I am guessing 4 weeks.
	www.DesignerSupps.com INTELLIGENT DESIGN™...lands on 1/1/2007 www.intelligentdesignmag.com

06-12-2003, 12:53 PM	#37
Twin Peak Peak Physiques™ Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NY Posts: 7,967	Patience is not your forte, I see. You'd think you were paying for this.
	www.DesignerSupps.com INTELLIGENT DESIGN™...lands on 1/1/2007 www.intelligentdesignmag.com

06-12-2003, 01:25 PM	#39
Robboe Designer Supplements Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Newcastle Posts: 5,151	For fucks sake man - you've barely been dieting a fortnight. You can probably make leaps and bounds in the next 4 or so weeks without much problem.
	Being held down by The Man

06-12-2003, 01:45 PM	#41
Robboe Designer Supplements Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Newcastle Posts: 5,151	Apologies - i was under the impression you started dieting for this experiment. 'Leaps and bounds' - you can lose fat quite consistently for the first 4-6 weeks of a diet before running into any "real" problems.
	Being held down by The Man

06-12-2003, 02:06 PM	#43
Robboe Designer Supplements Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Newcastle Posts: 5,151	Stalled straight away? You close to your setpoint or something?
	Being held down by The Man

06-09-2003, 01:49 PM	#32
DaMayor Dan's the Man! Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Here. Posts: 5,318

06-09-2003, 02:48 PM	#34
DaMayor Dan's the Man! Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Here. Posts: 5,318	Good.

06-10-2003, 08:32 AM	#35
DaMayor Dan's the Man! Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Here. Posts: 5,318	Has Par located the infamous missing components?

06-12-2003, 12:27 PM	#36
DaMayor Dan's the Man! Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Here. Posts: 5,318	E'Hem.....

06-12-2003, 01:24 PM	#38
DaMayor Dan's the Man! Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Here. Posts: 5,318	Ah! A RESPONSE! So, for those whom might also be interested in the product........ Any News?

06-12-2003, 01:34 PM	#40
DaMayor Dan's the Man! Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Here. Posts: 5,318	Buddy, and I use this term loosely, I've been dieting a while longer than that.... Care to expound on the 'leaps and bounds' theory for the boys and girls?

06-12-2003, 01:51 PM	#42
DaMayor Dan's the Man! Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Here. Posts: 5,318	I have been dieting for the past three to four weeks, however, more seriously this week than the previous two. Unfortunately, "leaps and bounds" is not the case....I'm stalled right out of the gate. (Hence the sense of urgency re: Lep II arrival) Par for the course. No pun intended, Avant fans. Of course, I could probably spend more time concentrating on consistency rather than tweaking and second guessing.

06-12-2003, 02:32 PM	#44
DaMayor Dan's the Man! Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Here. Posts: 5,318	Well, not losing any 'weight'...let's put it that way. Weighed yesterday just out of curiosity...gained a couple....from where I have no idea. Close to my set point? Hell, I hope not! Initially, I was working with a bastardized version of a CKD....High fat/Moderate protein w/ carb up during the weekend. This was the trouble, I believe....carb ups weren't clean enough (included a few cool ones) work outs lacked motivation, I wasn't recording things accurately....just a slovenly program. Week two... tightened things up considerably... Week three... began perusing this site and others, looking for my own personal SKD/CKD....rather, the best ratios......the missing link. Found the 'CKD' post here by one of the Mods, can't remember who...Mr. X and some chick.........anyway, I was giving this serious consideration until I spoke to a couple of folks here, who basically talked me out of it. The ratios fluxuated with little explanation as to why. I've since been using a ~65%fat/~35%protein ratio, Zero carbs, no veggies.....getting ready to eliminate caffeine altogether, as well as alcohol (both are actually very limited) and have tweaked my suppliment program to include increases in chromium, fish oil, etc. Last edited by DaMayor : 06-12-2003 at 02:55 PM.

06-12-2003, 04:45 PM	#45
Robboe Designer Supplements Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Newcastle Posts: 5,151	Do you have problems sticking to diet? Also, what gave you the idea to jump feet first into a low carb diet? Why didn't you stick with carbs, protein and fat (and fibre) and just adjust calories for a few weeks until you felt that the only remaining obvious step was to drop carb intake?
	Being held down by The Man

06-12-2003, 04:47 PM	#46
Robboe Designer Supplements Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Newcastle Posts: 5,151	Also, chromium (piccolinate) ain't really that great unless you already have existing blood sugar issues. Fish oils are great. Definately quit "drinking", but there's nothing wrong with a glass or two of red wine (or white if you lick that side of the stamp) during carb loads/refeed days. Caf has benefits for fat loss also, but can be a bit two faced cause it causes cellular dehydration to a certain degree.
	Being held down by The Man

06-13-2003, 05:04 AM	#49
Robboe Designer Supplements Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Newcastle Posts: 5,151	When you tried your balanced diet and seemed to get nowhere, were you tracking calories everyday as well? And making dietary amendments (i.e. removing calories) when your weight went down?
	Being held down by The Man

06-13-2003, 12:51 PM	#51
Robboe Designer Supplements Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Newcastle Posts: 5,151	You should have dropped calories. For a week or so, it's an ideal situation, because it takes a few days for your body to realise this enough to drop leptin secretion, which is what really slows progress. During these few days, your brain thinks you're slightly hypoglycaemic (cause of the lower calories) and so does stuff to promote fat burning - ideal! Of course, it is when leptin drops quite low when this stops and fat burning enzymes, thyroid etc.. are slowly switched "off" and fat storing enzymes etc... are switched "on". So like i said, generally, you can make quite good progress in the first four or so weeks of a cut before progress plateaus. If you're so paranoid about losing muscle, then lower calories so ensure 1-2lbs weight loss for the first few weeks but include a refeed once a week. Oh yeah - if you DO have insulin issues, you may wanna check whether LG is ok for you.
	Being held down by The Man

06-13-2003, 01:16 PM	#52
DaMayor Dan's the Man! Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Here. Posts: 5,318	This is true. However, I really wasn't concerned with muscle loss as much as I was with damaging my metabolism again. I have since gotten over this paranoia, although I don't have any intentions of dieting haphazardly either. My remark regarding insulin may have been a bit off base. The insulin issue came up about a year and a half ago. I was getting a routine physical, during which I complained to the Doc about having a hard time losing weight. The Doc, a younger, enthusiastic, well read individual, who I later determined might tend to go a bit overboard at times, made the comment that I might have an insulin related problem. Of course, diabetes is the latest and greatest issue, so he had been studying up a bit and was anxious to share the information. Not to mention the fact that I was then on the Atkins diet, smoked, worked in an office, sat on my ass all day, had no work-out routine in place......Basically killing myself. Secondly, the reason I wasn't experiencing any results via the Atkins plan was simply due to the fact that I wasn't doing it properly! Currently, I'm doing a 65%/0/35% diet @20% caloric deficit....presently day 5. I am in ketosis,finally, showing light to moderate ketones per the ketostix, and will expect to have lost 1 lb. this week. If I can get the ball rolling like I did once before, I think I can lose 1-2 lbs. per week easily. Oh, I won't carb-up this weekend because I really didn't show any signs of ketosis until yesterday. So my plan was to carb up this coming weekend, then do weekly carb ups after that. As far as reducing cals as my weight drops, I was hoping to do that while using the Leptigen II in hopes that the deficit would be more readily accepted by my system. (TP- insert reference to my stubborness here) Whew! Can I babble or what! Last edited by DaMayor : 06-13-2003 at 01:31 PM.

06-13-2003, 02:00 PM	#53
Robboe Designer Supplements Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Newcastle Posts: 5,151	Well, you don't need ketone production to drop fat. You need a calorie deficit. Regardless, what is this about you previously "damaging" your metabolism?
	Being held down by The Man

06-13-2003, 02:38 PM	#54
DaMayor Dan's the Man! Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Here. Posts: 5,318	When I was self employed.....Ha! Now that's funny, considering that as of today I am again self employed...I digress... Anyway, the type of work I did required a lot of travel time to each customer, a great deal of work/ no opportunity to stop while I was there, and travel home afterwards. I might eat a bite in the a.m., although this was a rarity. So, my day consisted of Coffee, work, and usually an unhealthy supper. I basically trained myself to work with very little fuel in the tank. The first time I logged my dietary stats, I found that I was eating maybe ~1200 cals on a good day.....and drinking 20 gallons of caffeine laden diet drinks. Needless to say, when I took my current (actually ex-) "office" job, and quit smoking, the shit really hit the fan.

06-13-2003, 07:02 PM	#55
DaMayor Dan's the Man! Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Here. Posts: 5,318	Finally! Signs of progress! Weighed in on Monday, 242lbs. ...........weighed this afternoon...237. I realize that some of this is water, but I'll take it anyway.