DaMayor

Seem to be holding at the 236-7 mark.....which is good, considering that this is the first consistent "loss" I've experienced in the past several months. I'll weigh in again today, so we'll see.
Of course, I've been doing more manual labor in the 90+ degree heat, so it may again be water to some extent.

...........By the way, my previous comment wasn't meant to sound sarcastic, I'm just surprised how calm I still feel after consuming carbs. It's actually quite nice.

DaMayor

235.........

DaMayor

Alright, here's the deal. For the past few weeks I've been on a CKD. Now, there was some weight loss noted during the first week (which I assumed was mainly water weight) followed by slowed progress during week two. Thus far this week, there has been no change.
Due to my recent "career change", I am doing a lot more manual labor and a lot less sitting around, which makes it very difficult to make it through the first three (carb depletion) days of my current diet.
As a result, and due to a question posed earlier in this journal, I am considering changing to a more "balanced" diet. Of course, I will do so at a ~20% caloric deficit. This will serve two purposes.....first, I will stay more hydrated and probably more energetic during the day. Secondly, a diet that consists of lean meats, vegi's, and a very limited amount of slow burning carbs is much much easier to sell to the family. (I have had relatively good success in converting my wife to such a diet, and if we're both on it together we'll be more likely to stick with it)
Leptigen II is soon to arrive.......I need your collective input!!
(Give TP and TCD a break, guys and gals!)

Thanks.

Jodi

I think its a great idea DM! I have great success with them and still keep alot of energy.

What are you looking at 50/30/20 P/F/C ??

Essence EFA

DaMayor

That's pretty much what I had in mind. I'd like to get the majority of fat from fish oil,flax,olive oil, etc. as opposed to the poor quality fats found in some SKD's.

By the way, I didn't want to give CKD's a negative rap.... But during the summer months, I can eat a truckload of vegtables as opposed to the massive amounts of fat needed to get into ketosis. Yes, yes, Rob, I know ketone production isn't necessary, but it seems to be a factor for me personally. In other words, I haven't had much success when ketones aren't present.

Jodi

Very cool! I love my veggies too. I like making veggie and shrimp kabobs on the grill

CKD is not a bad diet at all, its a difficult plan to follow for some and if not done properly can be a waste of time. JMHO!!

Now, I'm not saying you did it improperly just with a family I can see how it would be easier to go with a more balanced plan.

Essence EFA

Robboe

Personally, and maybe this is just me and you may have some insulin-related issues, I would go isocaloric, still using the more satieting carbohydrate sources. Keep the calorie deficit and gauge weight loss weekly. Eventually, once you hit a plateau, then consider dropping carbs and upping fat.

If you drop carbs straight away, you're going to drop some/a lot of water from within your cells and this will make you lighter and will lower your RMR. Also, you'll effect your thyroid output to some degree - something which occurs with carbohydrate restriction regardless of overall calorie balance. Of course the thyroid gland seems to hold enough hormone for a couple of weeks use, so you probably won't notice the slowing metabolic effect until the week three or four mark in most people. In the long term it will be though. By keeping carbohydrates in the diet to some extent, you hinder the decline in thyroid output somewhat, which is obviously ideal.

I'm certainly not against low carb diets, because i think they're a handy tool for the latter stages of a diet when you're aiming to strip more stubborn fat deposits and insulin release from carb intake is hindering you. In hindsight, i'm not sure if i would have been better suited on a lower carb diet like NHE for these last few weeks of my diet. I've made progress in the fat loss department, but i'm not too sure if i would have dropped a bit more in comparison. Obviously i'm not going to fret over it now, but it's food for thought for me for the future.

If you ask my strategy, i'd say start isocaloric at the start of any diet, and gradually, as you get leaner (and lighter), amend calories so you say in overall deficit, taking calories specifically away from direct carbohydrate sources. Eventually, once you get to about the 15-20% range of carbs for your overall dietary calorie allocation, convert to some sort of "official" low carb diet like a CKD or, in my opinion a better choice - NHE.

This way you don't drop your RMR like a rock straight into a diet, your thyroid output is protected somewhat and by the end of your diet when you're quite lean and insulin is hindering lipolysis, the low carb approach is better suited.

Being held down by The Man

DaMayor

I agree.
My main concern is that I went to a CKD because I felt that it would yield quicker and more dramatic results. Of course, this might be the case if I continue, but by continuing I would have to sacrifice energy, experience poor mental affect, risk (moderate) dehydration, cramps....things I've run across before. But like you said, in many cases the ketogenic aproach is more suited for the final stages of fat loss. I haven't ruled it out completely.
Also, the type of diet that worked for me in the past was a fairly simple combination of P/C/F.
I realize that my wanting to change might cause some to question my ability to stay with a diet plan...(TP)...this is not the case. I am simply trying to nail down a plan that is more "do-able" in order to avoid any possibility of my veering off course when the Leptigen II use begins. I want the 'test' results to be solid, via consistent and responsible behavior on my part.......as corney as that may sound.
.....................................I'd like for this to work.

Twin Peak

My concern is not your ability, or lack thereof, to stay on a "diet". Rather my concern (based on my belied why you have yet to yeild results) is that you are unable, mentally, to lay out a well thought plan, and ride it out, through thick and thin.

Personally, I think tweaks are overrated, and overcomplicated for the average person. Rob does many tweaks through his cut (as do I) but we have been at this game far longer, know what are bodies do and do not respond to, and we do it to keep things fun -- we like to experiment.

You have yet to see significant results. I think you need to tack down a course (isocaloric sounds good) and stay the course at LEAST until you get to below 12% BF, which is a long time away.

www.DesignerSupps.com
INTELLIGENT DESIGN™...lands on 1/1/2007
www.intelligentdesignmag.com

DaMayor

I disagree. I think my biggest problem has been that I devise a plan, and stick with it, but after seeing no results after a period of weeks, if not months, I get frustrated and begin to over-analyze the situation in search of answers......immediate answers. Now, the problem with this is that there are no immediate answers, and unless one is extremely well educated in that which one is attempting to analize, the results of the analysis are speculative at best.
Dicipline isn't a problem for me......maintaining a patient and positive outlook when nothing makes sense is, as it is with many many others.
Now since I have adequately bashed myself, isn't the isolcaloric diet based on a 33/33/33 P/F/C ratio? What's wrong with a 50/30/20 like Jodi mentioned earlier?

Pepper

I think that is TP's way of calling you a candy-ass

My Carb Cycling Progress - you can't hide from the numbers.

Pepper

DaMayor,

The 50/30/20 diet is what I have been doing and I have had good success with it. This is simple...every day is the same (essentially) not much thought has to go into it.

On Fridays and sometimes one Fridays and Saturdays, I eat a normal, non-diet, but responsible meal - Chicken Fajitas, etc to "reset" and then start again. I like boring b/c when I have to think, I make bad decisions.

My Carb Cycling Progress - you can't hide from the numbers.

Twin Peak

This was exactly my point thank you very much.

www.DesignerSupps.com
INTELLIGENT DESIGN™...lands on 1/1/2007
www.intelligentdesignmag.com

Robboe

True to a certain degree. I also think "tweaks", an annoying word at best, are quite overrated. But the main "tweak" i do frequently is a basic calorie amendment - usually removing a few calories from my diet, and usually in the form of direct carbohydrates sources (which generally results in loss of some protein and fat, but nothing significant). The other "tweaks" i do may simply be adding in a different supplement or amending my training in a way to best fit my goals at the time. A "tweak" by the nature of completely changing all carb sources from oats to sweet potato - á la DP/W8 - for instance, is something i definately find unnecessary, but may yield positive results if you're aiming to get into contest condition. However, i am not, nor do i ever plan to, so this is quite irrelevant for me for the most part.

On a side note, completely changing from grains to vegetables may very well be more beneficial, as me and TP now well know - relating to the various phenotypes.

My earlier post address only metabolic concerns and totally ignored all/any training-related concerns. If you suddenly drop to a low carb diet, you're going to notice (now i know TP says low carb training doesn't effect him, but he really is in the minority) significant strength losses and your endurance will go to shit. Overall, your training will be quite poor which may lead to loss of muscle. Both of these variables you don't want dropping at this stage in the diet. Ideally you want to preserve as much muscle as possible to keep your RMR up, as well as the obvious muscle retaining issue so you look better when you drop the fat.

Usually, with most people, it takes about 2-3 weeks to adjust to low carb training. Usually, you build the strength back up relatively quickly, so in this regard it may be ok.

Again, i'm not saying that will lose muscle or sabotage your diet by doing so, but i just feel strongly that a more gentle easing into the diet is a much more strategic plan. You'll not notice a sudden drop in strength or endurance, your thyroid won't drop quite quickly and your RMR won't plummet down a few 100 kcals over the space of a few days.

That said, some sort of cyclical approach may work well, where you shift from period of 3 weeks of isocaloric (in a hypocaloric state) to 3 weeks of low carbs (in a hypocaloric state). You would need to ensure your calorie intakes are similar with each cycle, making amendments are you get leaner and lighter. For me this is a malarkey and a half, and i basically couldn't be arsed with such a protocol, so i'd rather start iso, take off calories in the way of carbs to ensure a 0.5-1.5lb drop in weight per week (minding the mirror also and assessing energy levels each week, while considering all possible variables), eventually leading to a state of about 100-120g/day when i just drop down to sub-50g/day of carbs and up my fats to compensate.

Low carb or iso, i refeed weekly regardless - increasing the refeed frequency as i get leaner or feel like i need them more often. when i do NHE, i do bi-weekly carb loads, consisting of about 300g carbs spaced out over about 3 hours in the evenings of every 3rd and 4th days, occasionally spending a full day refeeding every 3rd or 4th weeks.

Being held down by The Man

DaMayor

Yeah, I know.

DaMayor

........but may yield positive results if you're aiming to get into contest condition. However, i am not, nor do i ever plan to, so this is quite irrelevant for me for the most part.

-Competitive shape would be nice, but isn't a realistic goal. (Not to say that it is impossible.)

On a side note, completely changing from grains to vegetables may very well be more beneficial, as me and TP now well know - relating to the various phenotypes.

-I agree.

My earlier post address only metabolic concerns and totally ignored all/any training-related concerns. If you suddenly drop to a low carb diet, you're going to notice (now i know TP says low carb training doesn't effect him, but he really is in the minority) significant strength losses and your endurance will go to shit.

-My strength was fine, in fact, I had many "personal bests". Stamina, however, was very limited....I'd run out of gas very quickly, which is very frustrating.


.... so i'd rather start iso, take off calories in the way of carbs to ensure a 0.5-1.5lb drop in weight per week (minding the mirror also and assessing energy levels each week, while considering all possible variables), eventually leading to a state of about 100-120g/day when i just drop down to sub-50g/day of carbs and up my fats to compensate.
--This is generally what I had in mind.......granted that I'm mentally capable of doing so.

[/quote]

DaMayor

Monday.................tune in, Lepti-fans, for a new journal.

Triple Threat

OK, it's Monday. Where's the new journal?

Robboe

Wicked title!

Being held down by The Man

DaMayor

You mean my avatar?

DaMayor

In the works.....

Twin Peak

DM -- since we are getting close, I need you to email me your shipping address.

And I believe Rob meant "OK, it's Monday. Where's the new journal?" would be a great title.

www.DesignerSupps.com
INTELLIGENT DESIGN™...lands on 1/1/2007
www.intelligentdesignmag.com

DaMayor

Rob's in rare form today.......I am not.

Still like the avatar better.

Check your e-mail.

DaMayor

Besides, I never said which Monday.

It appears I may have miscalculated/misinterpreted the delivery date......

DaMayor

I will entitle the new Leptigen II journal in your
honor, Sir Rob.......The Master-Beta