Thread: The Leptigen II Avantage.....

Okay, here we are....ready to test.....

Let me first say that this is indeed a serious undertaking, and that I really expect and would appreciate you all to treat it as such........I know you all will.

Initial Notes (and a few questions):
As to make this product 'test' as objective as possible, I will make all comments, inquiries and/or requests for information public.....

*The statistics I entered above will be re-checked and verified this afternoon, as they were taken a week or so ago.

I'll tell ya what....Rather than creating a rant here, I'll give TP et al an opportunity to offer whatever information he/they feel is necessary before I actually start an rant-fest......

Looks like a good start.

I expect the product to be shipped at the end of the next week, so you'll likely start in 2 weeks or so.

Alrighty then, seeing as we will have some time on our hands before the product arrives, I thought it might be helpful to re-define my diet approach prior to loading up on Leptigen II.
For the last week or three, I have been on a ketogenic diet of sorts......we won't go into SKD, CKD, Atkins, etc..
This diet has basically consisted of 5-6 meals per day, (usually 5, the 6th usually on w/o days) based on an average of 50/0/50...that's an average.
I had originally been depleting carbs for three days, and then 'carbing up', usually via "healthy carbs" -oats, etc. vs. the Cocoa Cocoa Puffs so dearly loved by many here- but with little success. As a result of this, I decided to get a little more aggressive by going to a 40/0/60 ratio, and going for longer periods, up to, but not exceeding two weeks with no carb-ups. Last week, after 4 days of this...minimal ketosis.

Therefore, the question I have is this.... While using a product such as Leptigen II , which is really geared to mantain healthy leptin levels and/or deter all of the negative aspects of such levels crashing, is it really necessary to use a ketogenic diet? Why not a more "balanced" diet, say 50/20/30, with a caloric deficit alone?

Any diet will do (diet = hypocaloric state).

What type of results have you been having on this?

Thus far, my results have been less than satisfactory. However, I recently realized that I had been hugely mistaken in the way I viewed ketogenic diets, specifically the SKD, mainly due to a sort of misrepresentation of 'caloric boundaries' as explained (loosely) in the Atkins diet. For whatever reason, I thought that a caloric deficit was not absolutely necessary as long as adequate fats were being taken in and ketosis achieved. Of course, our esteemed friend Lyle M. states quite to the contrary:

Calories and the Atkins diet: a misconception
"A misconception, and commonly heard criticism, surrounding the Atkins diet is the
(apparent) claim that fat can be lost with an ‘unrestricted caloric intake’, which contradicts
basic thermodynamics (8). Strictly speaking, Atkins claimed that one could lose weight eating as
much fat and protein ‘as they liked’ meaning they could eat until they were full without worrying
about counting calories."

Major Oops. Regardless, I have recently had a very difficult time getting into Ketosis, hence my "can I try something else with this product?" question.

Interesting that you found that. You weren't aware of that this morning.

True. True.

Okay, based on the myriad of input we've received, I've chosen to go with a CKD. Basically, I will carb deplete for four days, carb up on the fourth, etc. etc. Ratio will look something like 50/0/50 to begin with, @ 2300 kcals per day. I will do this until the Leptigen II arrives, (approx. 2 weeks, eh TP?) at which time I will initially drop calories to 2000, then eliminate carb-ups, doing a re-feed every two weeks.

All of this is tentitive...any suggestions are Welcomed!

I'd like you to keep kcals the same before and during use. Refeed every 5th day before, and track weight loss every 5 days. Refeed should be a full day of carbs to keep leptin up.

After use, refeed every 5th day, but only refeed for 4 hours after your workout. The intent here is to reglycogenate your muscles, and will not effect leptin (which you dont need to do). Also track weight loss every 5 days.

Originally posted by Twin Peak
I'd like you to keep kcals the same before and during use. Alright, we'll go with 2300....this is about 17-18% of my current maint.cals.....acceptable?

Refeed every 5th day before.... Meaning "carb up" not "Extensive Refeed" correct?
and track weight loss every 5 days. No Problem
Refeed should be a full day of carbs to keep leptin up.Scratch question number two.

After use, refeed every 5th day, but only refeed for 4 hours after your workout. The intent here is to reglycogenate your muscles, and will not effect leptin (which you dont need to do). Also track weight loss every 5 days.

So the weight loss may continue well after I discontinue use?

Good Luck DaMayor. I am looking forward to tracking this.

Salvage those refeed days

Thanks! We are looking forward to this.

Originally posted by Leslie
Salvage those refeed days

He won't need to, once on LG II.

As to your last question DM. Leptigen sends the fed signal to your cells. It is this signal, or the lack thereof, that as the myriad of negative effects, so diets, as the go on, get more difficult, hunger and cravings increase, metabolism falls, muscle loss occurs, fat loss slows etc.

Leptigen will send the fed signical to the celss without the kcals of food, so these problems inherent in dieting will be staved off.

Once you stop with LG, you will continue as if you never took it. Put simply, if you continue to diet, leptin will begin to fall, the fed signal will not be sent, etc. You will continue to loss weight, albeit not at the same pace and with the same easy, and as you continue it will become progressively more difficult.

But, if you use it for a month, lets say, you will have staved off all of these things during that time.

Moreover, LG utilizes many repartitioning pathways, so fat loss will be more significant when using it, then without.

How do you suspect the fat loss will compare to that experienced by those who tested the original product? I realize that this is entirely speculative at this point, but take a stab at it anyway........for the viewers.....I won't hold you to it.

Everything will be much, much better.

Leptigen had 6 ingredients. LG II has over 80. It targets and effects many, many different pathways.

Nice.

Okay, let's talk about calories for a minute. I have a concern about the level of my personal caloric deficit, and the effects any miscalculation on my part might have on this test...not to mention my metabolism.
Okay, based on what we've read, for the average bear, maintenance is based on 15cals per lb. of bodyweight. If this were the case, my maintenance cals per day would be ~3600. Now, based on the "results" of my metabolic re-set, my 'threshold' from maint. to weight gain is about 2800cal per day. In other words, anything above 2800-3000 calories, and I start to gain weight consistently.
Now, based on the following:

The maximum allowed deficit

"The effects of exercise at different calorie levels on fat loss vary and are discussed in chapter 22. In general, the studies support the idea that there is a threshold deficit where maximum fat loss will occur with minimal changes in metabolic rate. This threshold occurs at approximately 1000 calories per day below maintenance and represents the maximum allowed deficit. As a general rule, the total daily deficit, created through caloric restriction and exercise, should be no greater than 1000 calories total per day. This should yield an average fat loss of 2 pounds per week. Some exceptions to this rule are discussed in chapter 13." --Lyle McDonald

Now, based on what Mr. McDonald tells us, let's say that I wish to decrease my daily caloric intake by 1000kcals.....this usually being a combined total as stated above, my questions are:

A.) Should the deficit, whether 100 or 1000kcals, be deducted from ~3600c/p/d, or from 2800c/p/d?

B.)Since I will be using Letigen II, which is designed to maintain leptin levels, couldn't I go down as far as 1800 with little or no danger of screwing up my metabolism?

Let's start with these...........

A) Hey refers to 1000 kcals below actual maintenance, 15 x BW is just an average. So 1800 would be your lowest, according to Lyle.

B) True you could go lower and not fuck things up, because of LG II. That said, if you lose 2 lbs weekly at 1000 kcals below, you would lose more, while on LG II with the same deficit, as I mentioned above.

Another good rule is to diet at bewteen 10-12 kcals per pound of bodyweight. If your metabolism is slow, and you want to be extreme, 10 x is a good number, I'd not go far below that, to start.

That's what I wanted to hear!

Stoked!

Originally posted by Twin Peak
if you lose 2 lbs weekly at 1000 kcals below, you would lose more, while on LG II with the same deficit, as I mentioned above.

I've reread this entire thread a couple of times, and I still don't understand how this is true. Any chance of explaining this in simple terms? Thanks.

In very simple terms, there are many ways.

A few include:

- repartitioning nutrients: LG II contains several substances that will divert a higher % of kcals and macros to muscle than to fat stores.

- increased metabolism: as a result of leptin levels staying heightened (rather than quickly dipping which happens who you go hypocaloric) metabolism you remain high. In addition, lean body mass will not be catabolized (and indeed you will likely be able to gain muscle while hypocaloric -- which is unheard of in an experienced lifter who is not on an anabolic).

There are other reasons but they are less significant.

Obviously, this is all threory based on science, and these are things we are looking for in the testing. We are quite confident in the research, as it will apply in the real world.

Got it. Thanks, TP. I was under the impression that it was more along the lines of an appetite suppressant. It's clearly more than just that.

Originally posted by CaptainDeadlift
Got it. Thanks, TP. I was under the impression that it was more along the lines of an appetite suppressant. It's clearly more than just that.

No, no, no. Anorect-In is an appetite supressant. An instantaneous one at that.

Leptigen does supress appetite, but only as a by product of sending the fed signal to the cells and keeping leptin levels up.

What's the products ETA?

Hard to say. Will know more next week.

How has the diet gone this week?

It's going.....

I'm tightening up the stats for next week. I would like to post what I've been doing a week before I begin using the product. At least concerning diet. Regarding training, I think that a general description, if any at all, is required.
Your opinion?

I agree.

Delay is based on sourcing the final ingredients, BTW. Unfortunately in the short term, but fortunately for the long term, Par Deus keeps finding additional ingredients that make it even more potent.

Alright, I will begin logging my diet on Monday.

In regards to training, I have, and will continue to do a basic three day split, with low impact cardio on off days....schedule permitting. Ran into a bit of trouble at a softball game recently, so anything high impact is on hold for at least a week.

One question, however. As an effort to burn more BF, would it be best to continue to work alternate muscle groups, or switch to a full body w/o three times a week? (i.e., which would best maximize the effects of the LG II?)