The Leptigen II Avantage.....

DaMayor · 06-02-2003, 09:14 AM

Da Stats......

Age: 37
Height: 5'-10"
Weight: 235-238lbs. (was ~240+ in January)
BF- To update asap.
Neck-~17.5"
Chest-~48"
Bi's-~17.5"
Waist-~38"
Quads-~27.5"
All measurements are nominal....we'll tighten these up later.

October-December, 2002….After spending the last few years doing everything that I knew to be unhealthy (in relation to diet and exercise) my conscience finally caught up with me…I’d had enough.
Having always maintained a certain level of fitness in the past, at least in regards to my “weight”, (a term I would later learn to use with greater care) the condition I found myself in was anything but acceptable. Unlike a large percentage of the American Populace, who, like lambs to the slaughter, believe any and every marketing gimmick, my initial approach to diet was a bit more skeptical. I knew that anything labeled “light”, “lean”, or “healthy” probably wasn’t, that I couldn’t lose ten pounds in two days by drinking the contents of a bastardized Gatorade bottle, and that the idea of popping pills more often used by truck drivers than trainers didn’t sound like such a good idea.
I knew that a typical (reduction) diet required a caloric deficit, was vaguely familiar with macronutrients, and recognized that a minimal carbohydrate intake yielded moderate to good results. While I had trained and dieted in years past, usually with an acceptable amount of success, little did I know that this diet would be an entirely different ordeal. The combination of higher expectations/goals and a sluggish to hybernatory metabolism would prove to be quite a challenge, to say the very least.
Initially, I approached the situation as most would, by decreasing portion sizes and eating a few more salads while exercising, via weight training and low impact cardio, three times a week. After more than a month, and little to no “weight loss”, I was worried. I began researching various sources and visiting several web sites, and at the advice of most in the ‘fitness’ business, I started keeping a fitness journal. After a week’s worth of entries, I was shocked to find that my caloric intake was averaging ~1400 kcals a day. Based on the ratio of kcal per pound bodyweight I had seen in my research, this wasn’t a good number. Again I searched, and read, and listened, and found that I may need to re-set my metabolism. I did this first by cleaning up my diet, replacing what I had considered “normal” carbohydrates with “slow burners”, increasing my protein intake via both food sources as well as powders, and choosing better fat sources, such as flax oil, fish oil, etc. and supplementing as never before via quality multivitamins, and other dietary supplements.. Then, over the course of the next few months, I increased my caloric intake to an average of 2800 kcal per day. By mid April, I was consuming roughly 3000 calories, when I noticed a slight and consistent weight gain. At this point, again following the advice of those more knowledgeable than I, I began to diet…..the right way.
My first approach was that of increasing my meal frequency to 5-6 times a day, adjusting my caloric intake ratio to 10-11 kcals per pound of bodyweight, while maintaining a consistent ratio of p/c/f …usually around 45/25/30, or thereabouts. As time went on, the scale moved only slightly. While I realized that I might be “trading” fat loss with muscle gain, the lack of scale movement was a less than positive incentive to continue this particular plan. Again feeling frustrated, I decided to utilize a more aggressive approach. I then began reading, specifically Lyle McDonald’s (extensive) work, on SKD’s and CKD’s. I had tried the Atkins diet in the past, and with good results, so a CKD, sharing many of the same characteristics, seemed like the next logical choice. However, the idea of weekly “carb-ups” or “re-feeds” seemed almost contradictory to someone who had never studied the concept in great detail. Why couldn’t I just continue to carb deplete if I was achieving a consistent fat loss? Yet, after reading further, and becoming more familiar with leptin levels, I began to understand. In fact, this new found information describing the role of this hormone in relation to weight loss explained why I had not experienced any weight loss over the past year or more.
So, here I am, experimenting again. Currently, I have been on a carbohydrate depletion for the past three days, hopefully ketosis bound. My current ratios are ~50/0/50 @ ~2600kcals per day. As I stated above, I wish I could maintain this fat-burning state for a number of weeks before carbing up or re-feeding, but fear that I might damage my metabolism…..again. So, for now its two steps forward and one step back……progress indeed, just excruciatingly slow. Then again, Maslow never said that self actualization would be easy.

DaMayor · 06-02-2003, 09:34 AM

Okay, here we are....ready to test.....

Let me first say that this is indeed a serious undertaking, and that I really expect and would appreciate you all to treat it as such........I know you all will.

Initial Notes (and a few questions):
As to make this product 'test' as objective as possible, I will make all comments, inquiries and/or requests for information public.....

*The statistics I entered above will be re-checked and verified this afternoon, as they were taken a week or so ago.

I'll tell ya what....Rather than creating a rant here, I'll give TP et al an opportunity to offer whatever information he/they feel is necessary before I actually start an rant-fest......

Twin Peak · 06-02-2003, 09:43 AM

Looks like a good start.

I expect the product to be shipped at the end of the next week, so you'll likely start in 2 weeks or so.

DaMayor · 06-02-2003, 01:13 PM

Alrighty then, seeing as we will have some time on our hands before the product arrives, I thought it might be helpful to re-define my diet approach prior to loading up on Leptigen II.
For the last week or three, I have been on a ketogenic diet of sorts......we won't go into SKD, CKD, Atkins, etc..
This diet has basically consisted of 5-6 meals per day, (usually 5, the 6th usually on w/o days) based on an average of 50/0/50...that's an average.
I had originally been depleting carbs for three days, and then 'carbing up', usually via "healthy carbs" -oats, etc. vs. the Cocoa Cocoa Puffs so dearly loved by many here- but with little success. As a result of this, I decided to get a little more aggressive by going to a 40/0/60 ratio, and going for longer periods, up to, but not exceeding two weeks with no carb-ups. Last week, after 4 days of this...minimal ketosis.

Therefore, the question I have is this.... While using a product such as Leptigen II , which is really geared to mantain healthy leptin levels and/or deter all of the negative aspects of such levels crashing, is it really necessary to use a ketogenic diet? Why not a more "balanced" diet, say 50/20/30, with a caloric deficit alone?

Twin Peak · 06-02-2003, 01:17 PM

Any diet will do (diet = hypocaloric state).

What type of results have you been having on this?

DaMayor · 06-02-2003, 01:32 PM

Thus far, my results have been less than satisfactory. However, I recently realized that I had been hugely mistaken in the way I viewed ketogenic diets, specifically the SKD, mainly due to a sort of misrepresentation of 'caloric boundaries' as explained (loosely) in the Atkins diet. For whatever reason, I thought that a caloric deficit was not absolutely necessary as long as adequate fats were being taken in and ketosis achieved. Of course, our esteemed friend Lyle M. states quite to the contrary:

Calories and the Atkins diet: a misconception
"A misconception, and commonly heard criticism, surrounding the Atkins diet is the
(apparent) claim that fat can be lost with an ‘unrestricted caloric intake’, which contradicts
basic thermodynamics (8). Strictly speaking, Atkins claimed that one could lose weight eating as
much fat and protein ‘as they liked’ meaning they could eat until they were full without worrying
about counting calories."

Major Oops. Regardless, I have recently had a very difficult time getting into Ketosis, hence my "can I try something else with this product?" question.

Twin Peak · 06-02-2003, 01:40 PM

Interesting that you found that. You weren't aware of that this morning.

DaMayor · 06-02-2003, 01:44 PM

True. True.

DaMayor · 06-03-2003, 07:54 AM

Okay, based on the myriad of input we've received, I've chosen to go with a CKD. Basically, I will carb deplete for four days, carb up on the fourth, etc. etc. Ratio will look something like 50/0/50 to begin with, @ 2300 kcals per day. I will do this until the Leptigen II arrives, (approx. 2 weeks, eh TP?) at which time I will initially drop calories to 2000, then eliminate carb-ups, doing a re-feed every two weeks.

All of this is tentitive...any suggestions are Welcomed!

Twin Peak · 06-03-2003, 08:01 AM

I'd like you to keep kcals the same before and during use. Refeed every 5th day before, and track weight loss every 5 days. Refeed should be a full day of carbs to keep leptin up.

After use, refeed every 5th day, but only refeed for 4 hours after your workout. The intent here is to reglycogenate your muscles, and will not effect leptin (which you dont need to do). Also track weight loss every 5 days.

DaMayor · 06-03-2003, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Twin Peak
I'd like you to keep kcals the same before and during use. Alright, we'll go with 2300....this is about 17-18% of my current maint.cals.....acceptable?

Refeed every 5th day before.... Meaning "carb up" not "Extensive Refeed" correct?
and track weight loss every 5 days. No Problem
Refeed should be a full day of carbs to keep leptin up.Scratch question number two.

After use, refeed every 5th day, but only refeed for 4 hours after your workout. The intent here is to reglycogenate your muscles, and will not effect leptin (which you dont need to do). Also track weight loss every 5 days.

So the weight loss may continue well after I discontinue use?

Leslie · 06-03-2003, 08:36 AM

Good Luck DaMayor. I am looking forward to tracking this.

Salvage those refeed days

DaMayor · 06-03-2003, 08:42 AM

Thanks! We are looking forward to this.

Twin Peak · 06-03-2003, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Leslie
Salvage those refeed days

He won't need to, once on LG II.

As to your last question DM. Leptigen sends the fed signal to your cells. It is this signal, or the lack thereof, that as the myriad of negative effects, so diets, as the go on, get more difficult, hunger and cravings increase, metabolism falls, muscle loss occurs, fat loss slows etc.

Leptigen will send the fed signical to the celss without the kcals of food, so these problems inherent in dieting will be staved off.

Once you stop with LG, you will continue as if you never took it. Put simply, if you continue to diet, leptin will begin to fall, the fed signal will not be sent, etc. You will continue to loss weight, albeit not at the same pace and with the same easy, and as you continue it will become progressively more difficult.

But, if you use it for a month, lets say, you will have staved off all of these things during that time.

Moreover, LG utilizes many repartitioning pathways, so fat loss will be more significant when using it, then without.

DaMayor · 06-03-2003, 08:58 AM

How do you suspect the fat loss will compare to that experienced by those who tested the original product? I realize that this is entirely speculative at this point, but take a stab at it anyway........for the viewers.....I won't hold you to it.

Twin Peak · 06-03-2003, 09:07 AM

Everything will be much, much better.

Leptigen had 6 ingredients. LG II has over 80. It targets and effects many, many different pathways.

DaMayor · 06-03-2003, 11:02 AM

Nice.

DaMayor · 06-03-2003, 01:27 PM

Okay, let's talk about calories for a minute. I have a concern about the level of my personal caloric deficit, and the effects any miscalculation on my part might have on this test...not to mention my metabolism.
Okay, based on what we've read, for the average bear, maintenance is based on 15cals per lb. of bodyweight. If this were the case, my maintenance cals per day would be ~3600. Now, based on the "results" of my metabolic re-set, my 'threshold' from maint. to weight gain is about 2800cal per day. In other words, anything above 2800-3000 calories, and I start to gain weight consistently.
Now, based on the following:

The maximum allowed deficit

"The effects of exercise at different calorie levels on fat loss vary and are discussed in chapter 22. In general, the studies support the idea that there is a threshold deficit where maximum fat loss will occur with minimal changes in metabolic rate. This threshold occurs at approximately 1000 calories per day below maintenance and represents the maximum allowed deficit. As a general rule, the total daily deficit, created through caloric restriction and exercise, should be no greater than 1000 calories total per day. This should yield an average fat loss of 2 pounds per week. Some exceptions to this rule are discussed in chapter 13." --Lyle McDonald

Now, based on what Mr. McDonald tells us, let's say that I wish to decrease my daily caloric intake by 1000kcals.....this usually being a combined total as stated above, my questions are:

A.) Should the deficit, whether 100 or 1000kcals, be deducted from ~3600c/p/d, or from 2800c/p/d?

B.)Since I will be using Letigen II, which is designed to maintain leptin levels, couldn't I go down as far as 1800 with little or no danger of screwing up my metabolism?

Let's start with these...........

Twin Peak · 06-03-2003, 02:26 PM

A) Hey refers to 1000 kcals below actual maintenance, 15 x BW is just an average. So 1800 would be your lowest, according to Lyle.

B) True you could go lower and not fuck things up, because of LG II. That said, if you lose 2 lbs weekly at 1000 kcals below, you would lose more, while on LG II with the same deficit, as I mentioned above.

Another good rule is to diet at bewteen 10-12 kcals per pound of bodyweight. If your metabolism is slow, and you want to be extreme, 10 x is a good number, I'd not go far below that, to start.

DaMayor · 06-03-2003, 02:35 PM

That's what I wanted to hear!

Stoked!

Triple Threat · 06-04-2003, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Twin Peak
if you lose 2 lbs weekly at 1000 kcals below, you would lose more, while on LG II with the same deficit, as I mentioned above.

I've reread this entire thread a couple of times, and I still don't understand how this is true. Any chance of explaining this in simple terms? Thanks.

Twin Peak · 06-04-2003, 08:22 AM

In very simple terms, there are many ways.

A few include:

- repartitioning nutrients: LG II contains several substances that will divert a higher % of kcals and macros to muscle than to fat stores.

- increased metabolism: as a result of leptin levels staying heightened (rather than quickly dipping which happens who you go hypocaloric) metabolism you remain high. In addition, lean body mass will not be catabolized (and indeed you will likely be able to gain muscle while hypocaloric -- which is unheard of in an experienced lifter who is not on an anabolic).

There are other reasons but they are less significant.

Obviously, this is all threory based on science, and these are things we are looking for in the testing. We are quite confident in the research, as it will apply in the real world.

Triple Threat · 06-04-2003, 10:40 AM

Got it. Thanks, TP. I was under the impression that it was more along the lines of an appetite suppressant. It's clearly more than just that.

Twin Peak · 06-04-2003, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CaptainDeadlift
Got it. Thanks, TP. I was under the impression that it was more along the lines of an appetite suppressant. It's clearly more than just that.

No, no, no. Anorect-In is an appetite supressant. An instantaneous one at that.

Leptigen does supress appetite, but only as a by product of sending the fed signal to the cells and keeping leptin levels up.

DaMayor · 06-06-2003, 06:16 AM

What's the products ETA?

06-02-2003, 09:14 AM	#1
DaMayor Dan's the Man! Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Here. Posts: 5,482	The Leptigen II Avantage..... BODYBUILDING SUPPLEMENTS High Quality Supplements For Bodybuilders and Athletes. www.ironmaglabs.com Da Stats...... Age: 37 Height: 5'-10" Weight: 235-238lbs. (was ~240+ in January) BF- To update asap. Neck-~17.5" Chest-~48" Bi's-~17.5" Waist-~38" Quads-~27.5" All measurements are nominal....we'll tighten these up later. October-December, 2002….After spending the last few years doing everything that I knew to be unhealthy (in relation to diet and exercise) my conscience finally caught up with me…I’d had enough. Having always maintained a certain level of fitness in the past, at least in regards to my “weight”, (a term I would later learn to use with greater care) the condition I found myself in was anything but acceptable. Unlike a large percentage of the American Populace, who, like lambs to the slaughter, believe any and every marketing gimmick, my initial approach to diet was a bit more skeptical. I knew that anything labeled “light”, “lean”, or “healthy” probably wasn’t, that I couldn’t lose ten pounds in two days by drinking the contents of a bastardized Gatorade bottle, and that the idea of popping pills more often used by truck drivers than trainers didn’t sound like such a good idea. I knew that a typical (reduction) diet required a caloric deficit, was vaguely familiar with macronutrients, and recognized that a minimal carbohydrate intake yielded moderate to good results. While I had trained and dieted in years past, usually with an acceptable amount of success, little did I know that this diet would be an entirely different ordeal. The combination of higher expectations/goals and a sluggish to hybernatory metabolism would prove to be quite a challenge, to say the very least. Initially, I approached the situation as most would, by decreasing portion sizes and eating a few more salads while exercising, via weight training and low impact cardio, three times a week. After more than a month, and little to no “weight loss”, I was worried. I began researching various sources and visiting several web sites, and at the advice of most in the ‘fitness’ business, I started keeping a fitness journal. After a week’s worth of entries, I was shocked to find that my caloric intake was averaging ~1400 kcals a day. Based on the ratio of kcal per pound bodyweight I had seen in my research, this wasn’t a good number. Again I searched, and read, and listened, and found that I may need to re-set my metabolism. I did this first by cleaning up my diet, replacing what I had considered “normal” carbohydrates with “slow burners”, increasing my protein intake via both food sources as well as powders, and choosing better fat sources, such as flax oil, fish oil, etc. and supplementing as never before via quality multivitamins, and other dietary supplements.. Then, over the course of the next few months, I increased my caloric intake to an average of 2800 kcal per day. By mid April, I was consuming roughly 3000 calories, when I noticed a slight and consistent weight gain. At this point, again following the advice of those more knowledgeable than I, I began to diet…..the right way. My first approach was that of increasing my meal frequency to 5-6 times a day, adjusting my caloric intake ratio to 10-11 kcals per pound of bodyweight, while maintaining a consistent ratio of p/c/f …usually around 45/25/30, or thereabouts. As time went on, the scale moved only slightly. While I realized that I might be “trading” fat loss with muscle gain, the lack of scale movement was a less than positive incentive to continue this particular plan. Again feeling frustrated, I decided to utilize a more aggressive approach. I then began reading, specifically Lyle McDonald’s (extensive) work, on SKD’s and CKD’s. I had tried the Atkins diet in the past, and with good results, so a CKD, sharing many of the same characteristics, seemed like the next logical choice. However, the idea of weekly “carb-ups” or “re-feeds” seemed almost contradictory to someone who had never studied the concept in great detail. Why couldn’t I just continue to carb deplete if I was achieving a consistent fat loss? Yet, after reading further, and becoming more familiar with leptin levels, I began to understand. In fact, this new found information describing the role of this hormone in relation to weight loss explained why I had not experienced any weight loss over the past year or more. So, here I am, experimenting again. Currently, I have been on a carbohydrate depletion for the past three days, hopefully ketosis bound. My current ratios are ~50/0/50 @ ~2600kcals per day. As I stated above, I wish I could maintain this fat-burning state for a number of weeks before carbing up or re-feeding, but fear that I might damage my metabolism…..again. So, for now its two steps forward and one step back……progress indeed, just excruciatingly slow. Then again, Maslow never said that self actualization would be easy.

06-02-2003, 09:43 AM	#3
Twin Peak Peak Physiques™ Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NY Posts: 7,967	Looks like a good start. I expect the product to be shipped at the end of the next week, so you'll likely start in 2 weeks or so.
	www.DesignerSupps.com INTELLIGENT DESIGN™...lands on 1/1/2007 www.intelligentdesignmag.com

06-02-2003, 01:17 PM	#5
Twin Peak Peak Physiques™ Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NY Posts: 7,967	Any diet will do (diet = hypocaloric state). What type of results have you been having on this?
	www.DesignerSupps.com INTELLIGENT DESIGN™...lands on 1/1/2007 www.intelligentdesignmag.com

06-02-2003, 01:40 PM	#7
Twin Peak Peak Physiques™ Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NY Posts: 7,967	Interesting that you found that. You weren't aware of that this morning.
	www.DesignerSupps.com INTELLIGENT DESIGN™...lands on 1/1/2007 www.intelligentdesignmag.com

06-03-2003, 08:01 AM	#10
Twin Peak Peak Physiques™ Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NY Posts: 7,967	I'd like you to keep kcals the same before and during use. Refeed every 5th day before, and track weight loss every 5 days. Refeed should be a full day of carbs to keep leptin up. After use, refeed every 5th day, but only refeed for 4 hours after your workout. The intent here is to reglycogenate your muscles, and will not effect leptin (which you dont need to do). Also track weight loss every 5 days.
	www.DesignerSupps.com INTELLIGENT DESIGN™...lands on 1/1/2007 www.intelligentdesignmag.com

06-02-2003, 09:34 AM	#2
DaMayor Dan's the Man! Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Here. Posts: 5,482	Okay, here we are....ready to test..... Let me first say that this is indeed a serious undertaking, and that I really expect and would appreciate you all to treat it as such........I know you all will. Initial Notes (and a few questions): As to make this product 'test' as objective as possible, I will make all comments, inquiries and/or requests for information public..... *The statistics I entered above will be re-checked and verified this afternoon, as they were taken a week or so ago. I'll tell ya what....Rather than creating a rant here, I'll give TP et al an opportunity to offer whatever information he/they feel is necessary before I actually start an rant-fest......

06-02-2003, 01:13 PM	#4
DaMayor Dan's the Man! Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Here. Posts: 5,482	Alrighty then, seeing as we will have some time on our hands before the product arrives, I thought it might be helpful to re-define my diet approach prior to loading up on Leptigen II. For the last week or three, I have been on a ketogenic diet of sorts......we won't go into SKD, CKD, Atkins, etc.. This diet has basically consisted of 5-6 meals per day, (usually 5, the 6th usually on w/o days) based on an average of 50/0/50...that's an average. I had originally been depleting carbs for three days, and then 'carbing up', usually via "healthy carbs" -oats, etc. vs. the Cocoa Cocoa Puffs so dearly loved by many here- but with little success. As a result of this, I decided to get a little more aggressive by going to a 40/0/60 ratio, and going for longer periods, up to, but not exceeding two weeks with no carb-ups. Last week, after 4 days of this...minimal ketosis. Therefore, the question I have is this.... While using a product such as Leptigen II , which is really geared to mantain healthy leptin levels and/or deter all of the negative aspects of such levels crashing, is it really necessary to use a ketogenic diet? Why not a more "balanced" diet, say 50/20/30, with a caloric deficit alone?

06-02-2003, 01:32 PM	#6
DaMayor Dan's the Man! Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Here. Posts: 5,482	Thus far, my results have been less than satisfactory. However, I recently realized that I had been hugely mistaken in the way I viewed ketogenic diets, specifically the SKD, mainly due to a sort of misrepresentation of 'caloric boundaries' as explained (loosely) in the Atkins diet. For whatever reason, I thought that a caloric deficit was not absolutely necessary as long as adequate fats were being taken in and ketosis achieved. Of course, our esteemed friend Lyle M. states quite to the contrary: Calories and the Atkins diet: a misconception "A misconception, and commonly heard criticism, surrounding the Atkins diet is the (apparent) claim that fat can be lost with an ‘unrestricted caloric intake’, which contradicts basic thermodynamics (8). Strictly speaking, Atkins claimed that one could lose weight eating as much fat and protein ‘as they liked’ meaning they could eat until they were full without worrying about counting calories." Major Oops. Regardless, I have recently had a very difficult time getting into Ketosis, hence my "can I try something else with this product?" question.

06-02-2003, 01:44 PM	#8
DaMayor Dan's the Man! Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Here. Posts: 5,482	True. True.

06-03-2003, 07:54 AM	#9
DaMayor Dan's the Man! Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Here. Posts: 5,482	Okay, based on the myriad of input we've received, I've chosen to go with a CKD. Basically, I will carb deplete for four days, carb up on the fourth, etc. etc. Ratio will look something like 50/0/50 to begin with, @ 2300 kcals per day. I will do this until the Leptigen II arrives, (approx. 2 weeks, eh TP?) at which time I will initially drop calories to 2000, then eliminate carb-ups, doing a re-feed every two weeks. All of this is tentitive...any suggestions are Welcomed!

06-03-2003, 08:36 AM	#12
Leslie DOWNSIZING Elite Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Jersey Girl Posts: 2,911 Photos: 11	Good Luck DaMayor. I am looking forward to tracking this. Salvage those refeed days
	Leslie My Journal My Sponsor:www.AvantLabs.com

06-03-2003, 08:42 AM	#13
DaMayor Dan's the Man! Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Here. Posts: 5,482	Thanks! We are looking forward to this.

06-03-2003, 08:58 AM	#15
DaMayor Dan's the Man! Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Here. Posts: 5,482	How do you suspect the fat loss will compare to that experienced by those who tested the original product? I realize that this is entirely speculative at this point, but take a stab at it anyway........for the viewers.....I won't hold you to it.

06-03-2003, 09:07 AM	#16
Twin Peak Peak Physiques™ Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NY Posts: 7,967	Everything will be much, much better. Leptigen had 6 ingredients. LG II has over 80. It targets and effects many, many different pathways.
	www.DesignerSupps.com INTELLIGENT DESIGN™...lands on 1/1/2007 www.intelligentdesignmag.com

06-03-2003, 11:02 AM	#17
DaMayor Dan's the Man! Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Here. Posts: 5,482	Nice. Last edited by DaMayor : 06-03-2003 at 01:27 PM.

06-03-2003, 01:27 PM	#18
DaMayor Dan's the Man! Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Here. Posts: 5,482	Okay, let's talk about calories for a minute. I have a concern about the level of my personal caloric deficit, and the effects any miscalculation on my part might have on this test...not to mention my metabolism. Okay, based on what we've read, for the average bear, maintenance is based on 15cals per lb. of bodyweight. If this were the case, my maintenance cals per day would be ~3600. Now, based on the "results" of my metabolic re-set, my 'threshold' from maint. to weight gain is about 2800cal per day. In other words, anything above 2800-3000 calories, and I start to gain weight consistently. Now, based on the following: The maximum allowed deficit "The effects of exercise at different calorie levels on fat loss vary and are discussed in chapter 22. In general, the studies support the idea that there is a threshold deficit where maximum fat loss will occur with minimal changes in metabolic rate. This threshold occurs at approximately 1000 calories per day below maintenance and represents the maximum allowed deficit. As a general rule, the total daily deficit, created through caloric restriction and exercise, should be no greater than 1000 calories total per day. This should yield an average fat loss of 2 pounds per week. Some exceptions to this rule are discussed in chapter 13." --Lyle McDonald Now, based on what Mr. McDonald tells us, let's say that I wish to decrease my daily caloric intake by 1000kcals.....this usually being a combined total as stated above, my questions are: A.) Should the deficit, whether 100 or 1000kcals, be deducted from ~3600c/p/d, or from 2800c/p/d? B.)Since I will be using Letigen II, which is designed to maintain leptin levels, couldn't I go down as far as 1800 with little or no danger of screwing up my metabolism? Let's start with these...........

06-03-2003, 02:26 PM	#19
Twin Peak Peak Physiques™ Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NY Posts: 7,967	A) Hey refers to 1000 kcals below actual maintenance, 15 x BW is just an average. So 1800 would be your lowest, according to Lyle. B) True you could go lower and not fuck things up, because of LG II. That said, if you lose 2 lbs weekly at 1000 kcals below, you would lose more, while on LG II with the same deficit, as I mentioned above. Another good rule is to diet at bewteen 10-12 kcals per pound of bodyweight. If your metabolism is slow, and you want to be extreme, 10 x is a good number, I'd not go far below that, to start.
	www.DesignerSupps.com INTELLIGENT DESIGN™...lands on 1/1/2007 www.intelligentdesignmag.com

06-03-2003, 02:35 PM	#20
DaMayor Dan's the Man! Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Here. Posts: 5,482	That's what I wanted to hear! Stoked!

06-04-2003, 08:22 AM	#22
Twin Peak Peak Physiques™ Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NY Posts: 7,967	In very simple terms, there are many ways. A few include: - repartitioning nutrients: LG II contains several substances that will divert a higher % of kcals and macros to muscle than to fat stores. - increased metabolism: as a result of leptin levels staying heightened (rather than quickly dipping which happens who you go hypocaloric) metabolism you remain high. In addition, lean body mass will not be catabolized (and indeed you will likely be able to gain muscle while hypocaloric -- which is unheard of in an experienced lifter who is not on an anabolic). There are other reasons but they are less significant. Obviously, this is all threory based on science, and these are things we are looking for in the testing. We are quite confident in the research, as it will apply in the real world.
	www.DesignerSupps.com INTELLIGENT DESIGN™...lands on 1/1/2007 www.intelligentdesignmag.com

06-04-2003, 10:40 AM	#23
Triple Threat ... Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lost Posts: 9,330 Photos: 4	Got it. Thanks, TP. I was under the impression that it was more along the lines of an appetite suppressant. It's clearly more than just that.

06-06-2003, 06:16 AM	#25
DaMayor Dan's the Man! Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Here. Posts: 5,482	What's the products ETA?