My cut

kkohler1 · 06-12-2003, 09:25 AM

Hey hey folks of IM -

Im a newbie to the site, though my neighbor has been my trainer and put me on a semi "zone" diet, semi IM diet.

Here are my stats:

male
25 yrs
6'0
195 lbs

pants waist and leg mesasurements 35x32

have a beer gut.

Goals:

To cut and tone down the fat, and then bulk so I wont stay skinny.
Here is what the good old musclehead put me on.

Protein, slow burning Carbs and fat.

My intake a day has been about 2750-2800 cals/day divided among six meals.

My carb intake alternated 30/0 every meal. last meal has 0 carbs.
Fat is at 15g per meal and protein is at 50g per meal.

Ive been on this plan since the start of May.

Ive lost a lot of fat. still have a gut (sort of), but im getting skinny.

Here is my workout schedule:
S - rest
M - cardio (every other mon)
T - lift
W - lift (cardio sometimes)
T - lift
F - lift
S - rest

The order of muscle groups change depending on my week (Im in Sales - hours suck

)

Foods: ( to equal the numbers stated above)

Meal One -
optimum protein 2.25 scoops
spectra high lignan flax .5 tablespoons
peaches 6 slices
brown Rice or oatmeal .5 C to a handful over

meal Two-
1 can tuna water packed
hellmans Mayonnaise 1 tablespoon
grapefruit .25
lettuce 3 C

meal Three -
optimum protein 2.25 scoops
Natural PB .75 tablespoons
whipping cream 1 - 2 tablespoons

meal Four -
chicken breast 1 7 oz.
newmans dressings .75 tablspoons
grapefruit .25
green beans 1 C.

meal 5 -
ground beef 5 - 6oz.
egg whites 4
oatmeal .6 cup
2 C. peppers and mushrooms

meal 6 -
1 can tuna water packed
hellmans Mayonnaise 1 tablespoon
grapefruit .25
lettuce 3 C

My trainer dude is gone. if someone would help monitor when its time to bulk that would be cool

critics are welcome./

**Jodi** · 06-12-2003, 09:35 AM

Hi kkohler1!

Welcome to IM!!!!

Who helped you with this plan? Looks good!

eskimo515 · 06-12-2003, 10:23 AM

Welcome to the Jungle, my man! There are geniuses on this board and everybody's is trying to shine together! Looking forward to seeing your journal.

Julie7Ulie · 06-12-2003, 10:58 AM

HI!!

Your meals kind look like ours!

kkohler1 · 06-12-2003, 11:19 AM

hi jodi, eskimo and julie. tahnks for the welcomes/ My trainer was the one who gave me this plan, and even suggested me to this site. and even if he says he didnt, i think he leanred everything off of here.

he was a member here though i dont know his screen name

what do you guys think? I need advice on when i should start tweaking my plan. more fat, less carbs?

i want to go on a clean bulk, but im not too sure of the best way to approach that and when i start if im cutting now.

**Jodi** · 06-12-2003, 11:50 AM

How long have you been on this plan?

kkohler1 · 06-13-2003, 01:32 PM

Jodi I have been on this plan for six weeks .

yesterday

first meal : ground beef 6oz. - egg whites 4 - spinach 3 cups -apples 2

second ; tuna water 1 can - hellmans Mayonnaise 1 tablespoon -half banana - lettuce 3 C

thrid : ground beef 6oz. - egg whites 4 - spinach 3 cups - apples 2

Fourth : chicken breast 1 - newmans 1 tablspoon - green beans 1 C. - half banana

fifth : protein around 2 scoops - flax oil .5 tablespoons - blueberries - cottage cheese .5 C

sixth : can tuna water 1 - hellmans Mayonnaise 1 tablespoon - grapefruit 2 slices - lettuce 3 Cups

shoudlers abs & cardio

Twin Peak · 06-16-2003, 02:21 PM

Interesting journal kohler (you make facets and fixtures, btw?).

On the issue of when and whether you should bulk, I can't assess that from what is here, as it depends on your goals, your bodyfat percentage, etc.

I can say that if you want to bulk you need to up the kcals. Since you are losing a lot of fat on this plan.

If you multiply BW by 16-18, that should be your total kcals.

You are getting plenty of protein (50 x 6 = 300).

You should up the fat a bit by adding 15-20 grams of fish oil daily.

The rest can come from carbs. I'd recommend more fruit and veggies, and also some simple carbs like dextrose in your post workout shake. Speaking of which, I can't tell that you have one, but you should be, immediately after your workout.

Twin Peak · 06-16-2003, 02:29 PM

Oh, and your w/o schedule is odd. 4 on/3 off is not the best plan, and you could probably lose the cardio.

**Jodi** · 06-16-2003, 02:35 PM

Sorry, must have missed this.

If you want to continue cutting then YES its time for a tweak. If you want to bulk to put on some LBM then TP gave you some good advice to follow.

kkohler1 · 06-16-2003, 02:51 PM

TP - what do suggest i change for working out?

thats 3400 cals you suggested. i dont want to intake an excessive amoubt of cals that get stored, since my workout schedule is obviously strained for time.

do you think this is the best bulk technique?
ive been "cutting" for almost a month and a half now, and lost a lot of fat. My goals are to maintain lean body muscle and lose all the fat i can.

i dont want to be skinny but not enormous either.

Goal #1: to los the gut.

Twin Peak · 06-16-2003, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kkohler1
TP - what do suggest i change for working out?

thats 3400 cals you suggested. i dont want to intake an excessive amoubt of cals that get stored, since my workout schedule is obviously strained for time.

do you think this is the best bulk technique?
ive been "cutting" for almost a month and a half now, and lost a lot of fat. My goals are to maintain lean body muscle and lose all the fat i can.

i dont want to be skinny but not enormous either.

Goal #1: to los the gut.

This does not sound to me like a bulk is appropriate.

If you have been cutting for six weeks are you still losing?

If so, I'd continue as is. When you start to stall, you might want to take a week eating about 500 kcals daily more then you were then resume as you were.

kkohler1 · 06-16-2003, 02:58 PM

but if im cutting and i just keep getting skinnier - how would i avoid that? woudnt a bulk help that out some?

Just eat more food and lift more weight?

Twin Peak · 06-16-2003, 03:08 PM

Skinnier, is what you want if your goal is fatloss.

When you lose fat, the muscles may "look smaller" as subcutaneous fat is now less, but you have not really lost significant muscle.

If in fact you are losing muscle, then you are having too few cals below maintenance. I suspect this is more mental than anything else.

kkohler1 · 06-16-2003, 03:22 PM

so simply put - im on the right track?

Twin Peak · 06-16-2003, 03:24 PM

kkohler1 · 06-16-2003, 03:26 PM

thanks TP - why arent you a mod?

thats a good thing that im going the right way

for future tweaking, i can just up the cals?

also- at what point do i know im ready for bulking?

Twin Peak · 06-16-2003, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kkohler1
thanks TP - why arent you a mod?

I was never asked.

Quote:

Originally posted by kkohler1 for future tweaking, i can just up the cals?

Pretty much, and I'd suggest in the areas I mentioned above. Even if you continue cutting, I'd work the fish oil into your diet, you can reduce some protein to compensate.

Quote:

Originally posted by kkohler1
also- at what point do i know im ready for bulking?

This is easy: when you would rather build muscle then loss fat.

kkohler1 · 06-16-2003, 03:43 PM

why do you suggest im not ready for a bulk?

just curious

Twin Peak · 06-16-2003, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kkohler1
TP - what do suggest i change for working out?

thats 3400 cals you suggested. i dont want to intake an excessive amoubt of cals that get stored, since my workout schedule is obviously strained for time.

do you think this is the best bulk technique?
ive been "cutting" for almost a month and a half now, and lost a lot of fat. My goals are to maintain lean body muscle and lose all the fat i can.

i dont want to be skinny but not enormous either.

Goal #1: to los the gut.

Because I read this.

kkohler1 · 06-16-2003, 03:51 PM

but wont bulking lose fat also?

Im assuming its more effective to lose the fat, get skinny, then bulk and put on more muscle, than put on more muscle on a bulk then lose fat.

right?

butterfly · 06-16-2003, 03:55 PM

I know when my hubby bulks he gains fat too. Since you want to continue to lose fat then this isn't the right time for you to bulk.

Twin Peak · 06-16-2003, 03:59 PM

Generally agreed upon definitions, off the top:

Cut: Primary goal is to lose bodyfat; this is achieved in a hypocaloric state (i.e. less kcals in then are burned).

Bulk: Primary goal is to gain muscle; this is achieved in a hypercaloric state (i.e. more kcals in then are burned).

A good rule of thumb is plus or minus 500 kcals daily. Inevitably, when you cutm you will lose some muscle, and when you bulk you will gain some fat.

kkohler1 · 06-16-2003, 04:01 PM

man, im going to look like a little kid i'll be so skinny.

so i need to eat more cals to not lose muscle? what kind of cals? protein?

Twin Peak · 06-16-2003, 04:03 PM

Reread above.

kkohler1 · 06-16-2003, 04:06 PM

so intake more fish oil, less protein. to increase about 500 cals.
is there a thread on fish oil? thats not in the flax aisle, is it?

and for workouts then would this be more effective?

S-rest
M-lift
T-lift
W-rest
T-lift
F-lift
S-rest

Twin Peak · 06-16-2003, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kkohler1
so intake more fish oil, less protein. to increase about 500 cals.
is there a thread on fish oil? thats not in the flax aisle, is it?

and for workouts then would this be more effective?

S-rest
M-lift
T-lift
W-rest
T-lift
F-lift
S-rest

Yes, this is better.

Fish oil is not discussed much around these parts, but is well worth the investment, and a superior fat source than anything else, including flax. You can get it in gel caps, just about anywhere.

Keep your kcals the same if your primary goal is to lose the gut. If your primary goal is to gain muscle, increase your daily intake by 500 kcals.

kkohler1 · 06-16-2003, 04:21 PM

So would this work?

fat / meal = 18g , 108g /day
EFA's like flax, fish oil, hemp

protein / meal = alternate 50/40/50/40/50/40 = 270g / day

carbs / meal = same.

Cals = between 2800 - 3000.

do you think this is good

Twin Peak · 06-16-2003, 04:29 PM

Sounds good. When you are ready to bulk, up the carbs as I suggested above.

06-12-2003, 09:35 AM	#2
Jodi Super Moderator Super Moderator Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 22,265 Photos: 1	Hi kkohler1! Welcome to IM!!!! Who helped you with this plan? Looks good!
	Essence EFA

06-12-2003, 10:23 AM	#3
eskimo515 King of the Dog Freaks Elite Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: NYC Posts: 335	Welcome to the Jungle, my man! There are geniuses on this board and everybody's is trying to shine together! Looking forward to seeing your journal.
	Because I'm not on an Atkins Diet nor would I ever do one. I'm a BB not a dieter! - Jodi

06-12-2003, 10:58 AM	#4
Julie7Ulie Registered User Join Date: May 2003 Location: MA Posts: 735	HI!! Your meals kind look like ours!
	... Im gettin' there!

06-12-2003, 11:50 AM	#6
Jodi Super Moderator Super Moderator Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 22,265 Photos: 1	How long have you been on this plan?
	Essence EFA

06-16-2003, 02:21 PM	#8
Twin Peak Peak Physiques™ Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NY Posts: 7,967	Interesting journal kohler (you make facets and fixtures, btw?). On the issue of when and whether you should bulk, I can't assess that from what is here, as it depends on your goals, your bodyfat percentage, etc. I can say that if you want to bulk you need to up the kcals. Since you are losing a lot of fat on this plan. If you multiply BW by 16-18, that should be your total kcals. You are getting plenty of protein (50 x 6 = 300). You should up the fat a bit by adding 15-20 grams of fish oil daily. The rest can come from carbs. I'd recommend more fruit and veggies, and also some simple carbs like dextrose in your post workout shake. Speaking of which, I can't tell that you have one, but you should be, immediately after your workout.
	www.DesignerSupps.com INTELLIGENT DESIGN™...lands on 1/1/2007 www.intelligentdesignmag.com

06-12-2003, 09:25 AM	#1
kkohler1 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 14	My cut Hey hey folks of IM - Im a newbie to the site, though my neighbor has been my trainer and put me on a semi "zone" diet, semi IM diet. Here are my stats: male 25 yrs 6'0 195 lbs pants waist and leg mesasurements 35x32 have a beer gut. Goals: To cut and tone down the fat, and then bulk so I wont stay skinny. Here is what the good old musclehead put me on. Protein, slow burning Carbs and fat. My intake a day has been about 2750-2800 cals/day divided among six meals. My carb intake alternated 30/0 every meal. last meal has 0 carbs. Fat is at 15g per meal and protein is at 50g per meal. Ive been on this plan since the start of May. Ive lost a lot of fat. still have a gut (sort of), but im getting skinny. Here is my workout schedule: S - rest M - cardio (every other mon) T - lift W - lift (cardio sometimes) T - lift F - lift S - rest The order of muscle groups change depending on my week (Im in Sales - hours suck ) Foods: ( to equal the numbers stated above) Meal One - optimum protein 2.25 scoops spectra high lignan flax .5 tablespoons peaches 6 slices brown Rice or oatmeal .5 C to a handful over meal Two- 1 can tuna water packed hellmans Mayonnaise 1 tablespoon grapefruit .25 lettuce 3 C meal Three - optimum protein 2.25 scoops Natural PB .75 tablespoons whipping cream 1 - 2 tablespoons meal Four - chicken breast 1 7 oz. newmans dressings .75 tablspoons grapefruit .25 green beans 1 C. meal 5 - ground beef 5 - 6oz. egg whites 4 oatmeal .6 cup 2 C. peppers and mushrooms meal 6 - 1 can tuna water packed hellmans Mayonnaise 1 tablespoon grapefruit .25 lettuce 3 C My trainer dude is gone. if someone would help monitor when its time to bulk that would be cool critics are welcome./

06-12-2003, 11:19 AM	#5
kkohler1 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 14	hi jodi, eskimo and julie. tahnks for the welcomes/ My trainer was the one who gave me this plan, and even suggested me to this site. and even if he says he didnt, i think he leanred everything off of here. he was a member here though i dont know his screen name what do you guys think? I need advice on when i should start tweaking my plan. more fat, less carbs? i want to go on a clean bulk, but im not too sure of the best way to approach that and when i start if im cutting now.

06-13-2003, 01:32 PM	#7
kkohler1 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 14	Jodi I have been on this plan for six weeks . yesterday first meal : ground beef 6oz. - egg whites 4 - spinach 3 cups -apples 2 second ; tuna water 1 can - hellmans Mayonnaise 1 tablespoon -half banana - lettuce 3 C thrid : ground beef 6oz. - egg whites 4 - spinach 3 cups - apples 2 Fourth : chicken breast 1 - newmans 1 tablspoon - green beans 1 C. - half banana fifth : protein around 2 scoops - flax oil .5 tablespoons - blueberries - cottage cheese .5 C sixth : can tuna water 1 - hellmans Mayonnaise 1 tablespoon - grapefruit 2 slices - lettuce 3 Cups shoudlers abs & cardio

06-16-2003, 02:29 PM	#9
Twin Peak Peak Physiques™ Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NY Posts: 7,967	Oh, and your w/o schedule is odd. 4 on/3 off is not the best plan, and you could probably lose the cardio.
	www.DesignerSupps.com INTELLIGENT DESIGN™...lands on 1/1/2007 www.intelligentdesignmag.com

06-16-2003, 02:35 PM	#10
Jodi Super Moderator Super Moderator Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 22,265 Photos: 1	Sorry, must have missed this. If you want to continue cutting then YES its time for a tweak. If you want to bulk to put on some LBM then TP gave you some good advice to follow.
	Essence EFA

06-16-2003, 02:51 PM	#11
kkohler1 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 14	TP - what do suggest i change for working out? thats 3400 cals you suggested. i dont want to intake an excessive amoubt of cals that get stored, since my workout schedule is obviously strained for time. do you think this is the best bulk technique? ive been "cutting" for almost a month and a half now, and lost a lot of fat. My goals are to maintain lean body muscle and lose all the fat i can. i dont want to be skinny but not enormous either. Goal #1: to los the gut.

06-16-2003, 02:58 PM	#13
kkohler1 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 14	but if im cutting and i just keep getting skinnier - how would i avoid that? woudnt a bulk help that out some? Just eat more food and lift more weight?

06-16-2003, 03:08 PM	#14
Twin Peak Peak Physiques™ Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NY Posts: 7,967	Skinnier, is what you want if your goal is fatloss. When you lose fat, the muscles may "look smaller" as subcutaneous fat is now less, but you have not really lost significant muscle. If in fact you are losing muscle, then you are having too few cals below maintenance. I suspect this is more mental than anything else.
	www.DesignerSupps.com INTELLIGENT DESIGN™...lands on 1/1/2007 www.intelligentdesignmag.com

06-16-2003, 03:22 PM	#15
kkohler1 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 14	so simply put - im on the right track?

06-16-2003, 03:24 PM	#16
Twin Peak Peak Physiques™ Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NY Posts: 7,967	Yes.
	www.DesignerSupps.com INTELLIGENT DESIGN™...lands on 1/1/2007 www.intelligentdesignmag.com

06-16-2003, 03:26 PM	#17
kkohler1 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 14	thanks TP - why arent you a mod? thats a good thing that im going the right way for future tweaking, i can just up the cals? also- at what point do i know im ready for bulking?

06-16-2003, 03:43 PM	#19
kkohler1 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 14	why do you suggest im not ready for a bulk? just curious

06-16-2003, 03:51 PM	#21
kkohler1 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 14	but wont bulking lose fat also? Im assuming its more effective to lose the fat, get skinny, then bulk and put on more muscle, than put on more muscle on a bulk then lose fat. right?

06-16-2003, 03:55 PM	#22
butterfly Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 11,526 Photos: 11	I know when my hubby bulks he gains fat too. Since you want to continue to lose fat then this isn't the right time for you to bulk.
	~Ann We must teach our children to dream with their eyes open. -Harry Edwards

06-16-2003, 03:59 PM	#23
Twin Peak Peak Physiques™ Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NY Posts: 7,967	Generally agreed upon definitions, off the top: Cut: Primary goal is to lose bodyfat; this is achieved in a hypocaloric state (i.e. less kcals in then are burned). Bulk: Primary goal is to gain muscle; this is achieved in a hypercaloric state (i.e. more kcals in then are burned). A good rule of thumb is plus or minus 500 kcals daily. Inevitably, when you cutm you will lose some muscle, and when you bulk you will gain some fat.
	www.DesignerSupps.com INTELLIGENT DESIGN™...lands on 1/1/2007 www.intelligentdesignmag.com

06-16-2003, 04:01 PM	#24
kkohler1 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 14	man, im going to look like a little kid i'll be so skinny. so i need to eat more cals to not lose muscle? what kind of cals? protein?

06-16-2003, 04:03 PM	#25
Twin Peak Peak Physiques™ Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NY Posts: 7,967	Reread above.
	www.DesignerSupps.com INTELLIGENT DESIGN™...lands on 1/1/2007 www.intelligentdesignmag.com

06-16-2003, 04:06 PM	#26
kkohler1 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 14	so intake more fish oil, less protein. to increase about 500 cals. is there a thread on fish oil? thats not in the flax aisle, is it? and for workouts then would this be more effective? S-rest M-lift T-lift W-rest T-lift F-lift S-rest

06-16-2003, 04:21 PM	#28
kkohler1 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 14	So would this work? fat / meal = 18g , 108g /day EFA's like flax, fish oil, hemp protein / meal = alternate 50/40/50/40/50/40 = 270g / day carbs / meal = same. Cals = between 2800 - 3000. do you think this is good

06-16-2003, 04:29 PM	#29
Twin Peak Peak Physiques™ Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NY Posts: 7,967	Sounds good. When you are ready to bulk, up the carbs as I suggested above.
	www.DesignerSupps.com INTELLIGENT DESIGN™...lands on 1/1/2007 www.intelligentdesignmag.com