M4ohn

Monolith · 06-28-2004, 07:08 PM

So...

My last experiment ended 2 weeks ago. The cut continues, however (as if it will ever end). I wasnt quite sure what i was going to try next. If you followed my last journal at all, you might remember i mentioned bromo, pergolide, or other DA modulators. I was hoping to give one of them a try, but i also recently started wellbutrin... and its been doing wonderful things for my mood. I'm also still messing with the dose somewhat. So, im hesitant to come off of it just so i can begin fux0ring with some other dopamine drug. I'd like to see how this pans out first.

Anyway, my second option was to use some sort of androgen. I really hadnt planned on using these for a while yet... but the impending ban, my growing impatience, and a philosophical change of heart (and all the goodies ive stocked my freezer/refrigerator with) convinced me to give it a whirl.

Drug of choice is M4OHN. Feedback seems hugely inconsistent so far. People having wonderful results on 4-8mg/ED, others not "feeling" much as high as 30mg/ED. Maybe ill be one of the lucky ones (although Murphy seems to test his law on me every time i get my hopes up)! Im also somewhat wary about the wellbutrin (as there are some case reports of acute liver failure in people on wellbutrin + other hepatoxic substances; alcohol etc) and a methyl, but M4OHN seems comparatively easy on the liver.

Dosing will begin at 8mg/ED, split between morning and late afternoon. I will probably graduate up to 12mg/ED next week, and i doubt ill go much higher, as im going to try and keep this somewhat idiot-proof for my first cycle. I wont be doing any of this cranberry juice crap, itll just be taken with meals. Will probably go 4 weeks, with transdermal 6oxo/7oxo as PCT.

Diet will probably remain the same. That is, TP's Carb Cycling w/ H/L/N/H/N/L/N. The only thing i may change is one 'no' day back to a 'low' day, depending on how i react to the M4OHN.

Training will be nothing terribly specific... that is, im not doing some well known, name-brand routine. Basically, volume will be increased while (trying) to stay away from concentric failure (although i oddly have the damndest time holding myself back).

Other supplements...
NAC @ 2x1g/ED
ALCAR @ 2x2.5g/ED
Alpha-GPC @ 1-2x300mg/ED
Lecithin @ 1-2x3g/ED
Phosphatidyl Serine... not much left, probably just use it during PCT.
Calcium @ 5x300mg/ED
Vit C @ 1-2x1g/ED
Magnesium @ 5x150mg/ED
Random crap in BSL vit/mineral @ 2caps/ED
Effexor (venlafaxine) @ 150mg/ED
Wellbutrin (bupropion) @ 300mg/ED
Fish oil @ 4x4g/ED
Digestive enzymes... 3-4 tabs with carb meals only
BSL fiber caps @ 2 every other meal
Melatonin... ocassionally. Maybe once or twice a week.
Tyrosine... ocassionally. Much more interesting on bupropion.

There may be some other stuff im just not thinking of right now.

Anyway, that about sums this introductory post up. I will be logging my workouts, opinions on all of the shit im taking, and anything else that happens to pop into my mind.

Meals wont be logged, but theyre all exactly the same unless otherwise noted. I basically live off of brown rice, chicken, salsa, and whey. Rare cameo's by Albacore, Angus, and the Green Giant are not unheard of.

Monolith · 06-28-2004, 07:14 PM

Stats as of 6/28:

Stomach - 38"
Right arm - 16"
Left arm - 15.75"
Right quad - 25.25"
Left quad - 24.75"
Neck - 15.75"
BW - 220.5lbs
BF - somewhere around 17%

Today, monday, is the beginning of my weekly H/L/N/H/N/L/N cycle.

Meals were the same. If anyone is that interested, they can see a sample of my diet in my old journal (Rebirth).

nikegurl · 06-28-2004, 07:22 PM

good luck! i've been reading up on MO4HN with great interest....

Monolith · 06-28-2004, 07:49 PM

Thanks Nike.

Training for 6/28: Chest/Biceps/Abs

DB Bench
70lbx9
65lbx7
60lbx6
50lbx8

Incline smith
90lbx11
90lbx9
70lbx10
70lbx10
70lbx8

Decline BB
135lbx8
115lbx10
115lbx6

Cable xover
40lbx10
30lbx9
20lbx12

---

Cam bar curl
85lbx10
85lbx8
45lbx10
45lbx10
45lbx8

Hammer DB curl
20lbx8
15lbx8
15lbx8
---

Cable machine crunch
40lbx12
40lbx12
40lbx8
30lbx10

---

Weights sucked. RI's were extremely short, however (30-45s)... and volume was pretty high. Stayed mostly away from failure, but came damn close a couple times... need to work on that.

PreMier · 06-28-2004, 08:28 PM

I am following along in this one. Good luck, and I am sure you will have some good results

**Jodi** · 06-28-2004, 08:44 PM

You and your chemicals

Good luck Monolith

no push/pull?

Monolith · 06-28-2004, 09:43 PM

Thanks PM and Jodi.

As for the push/pull... still lookin.

Might put something together in a couple weeks, but who knows. Tryin to get an idea of all the various routines that hit bodyparts multiple times a week before i go with one. I'll probably just end up with a generic push/pull, though.

PreMier · 06-28-2004, 09:44 PM

Why not 1bp a day for 5 days?

You have a PM.

Monolith · 06-28-2004, 09:47 PM

Thats sort of what im doing now.

Monday - chest/bi
Tuesday - quads
Wednesday - off
Thursday - back/traps
Friday - shoulders/triceps
Saturday - hams/abs/calves

I do abs more than once a week, it just varies on the other days. Same with grip work... i try to do direct grip work at least twice a week now.

**IainDaniel** · 06-29-2004, 06:32 AM

Good luck Mono, should be interesting to see your results.

yellowmoomba · 06-29-2004, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Other supplements...
NAC @ 2x1g/ED
ALCAR @ 2x2.5g/ED
Alpha-GPC @ 1-2x300mg/ED
Lecithin @ 1-2x3g/ED
Phosphatidyl Serine... not much left, probably just use it during PCT.
Calcium @ 5x300mg/ED
Vit C @ 1-2x1g/ED
Magnesium @ 5x150mg/ED
Random crap in BSL vit/mineral @ 2caps/ED
Effexor (venlafaxine) @ 150mg/ED
Wellbutrin (bupropion) @ 300mg/ED
Fish oil @ 4x4g/ED
Digestive enzymes... 3-4 tabs with carb meals only
BSL fiber caps @ 2 every other meal
Melatonin... ocassionally. Maybe once or twice a week.
Tyrosine... ocassionally. Much more interesting on bupropion

That's a LOT of supps!!

Good luck!!!

**Jodi** · 06-29-2004, 09:27 AM

Quote:

DB Bench
70lbx9
65lbx7
60lbx6
50lbx8

See you are full of shit

Monolith · 06-29-2004, 11:01 AM

Training for 6/29: Quads/Grip

Squats
145lbx10
145lbx6
135lbx6
135lbx4

Leg press
450lbx10
450lbx10
400lbx9
400lbx8

Machine hacks
90lb (+sled)x7
90lbx5

---

Plate pinch
20lbx90/70 (right/left, seconds)
20lbx60/55

---

Shortened the RI's from like 2 mins+ to 60-90s. I stayed away from failure pretty well today, except for the last couple sets on the leg press. I swear ill be in the middle of a set and before i even realize it im popping blood vessels in my eyes and shooting blood out of my nose before i catch myself.

Oh well. Gonna try to get the RI's down to 60s next week, and eventually 30-45s.

Grip work was minimal cuz i was running late. Ill hit it a couple more times this week.

**P-funk** · 06-29-2004, 11:18 AM

Have you ever thought about dropping all the supplements? how much of that stuff is really working? how much of that stuff cancels each other out? Why not go with no supps for like 6 weeks and give your system a break?

Monolith · 06-29-2004, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

Have you ever thought about dropping all the supplements? how much of that stuff is really working? how much of that stuff cancels each other out? Why not go with no supps for like 6 weeks and give your system a break?

Yeah, its crossed my mind. One of these days ill probably realize that it was all this shit i was ingesting that was hampering my gains.

But TBH, im just sort of enjoying experimenting. It's fun to see how various things interact, react, and synergize with each other. Most of the stuff im taking is pretty mundane, anyway. Basically a big multi-vit/mineral, some liver support, and some neuroprotective/cholinergic crap. The only "heavy duty" stuff is the wellbutrin and effexor.

But i do know what youre saying... its good to have some remind me that none of this stuff is truly necessary.

PreMier · 06-29-2004, 03:22 PM

Nice workout. Run it by me again why you dont want to hit failure?

Monolith · 06-29-2004, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PreMier

Nice workout. Run it by me again why you dont want to hit failure?

Increasing the volume while continuing to hit failure on every set would be a death knell for my CNS. That, and im trying to transition to a routine that hits each bp 2 or even 3 times per week. Hitting failure here and there right now isnt that bad, but once i finally make the move to training that bp multiple times a week, ill need to be pretty strict with it.

That said, anyone is welcome to call me an idiot and tell me why i should do things differently.

PreMier · 06-29-2004, 03:55 PM

What are you doing... some sort of modified TPPT?

Monolith · 06-29-2004, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PreMier

What are you doing... some sort of modified TPPT?

Nah, im probably just gonna do some sort of push/pull routine. Or hell, i may even go back to relatively low volume/high intensity.

Only time will tell.

**P-funk** · 06-29-2004, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monolith

Increasing the volume while continuing to hit failure on every set would be a death knell for my CNS. That, and im trying to transition to a routine that hits each bp 2 or even 3 times per week. Hitting failure here and there right now isnt that bad, but once i finally make the move to training that bp multiple times a week, ill need to be pretty strict with it.

That said, anyone is welcome to call me an idiot and tell me why i should do things differently.

Monolith · 06-30-2004, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

Is that a thumbs up for the "call me an idiot"?

Monolith · 06-30-2004, 06:45 PM

No carb day today, no gym.

Also, as a side note (unrelated to the m4ohn), ive noticed my libido is quite a bit higher since cessation of the sesathin. Nothing spectacular, but better than it was.

**P-funk** · 06-30-2004, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monolith

Is that a thumbs up for the "call me an idiot"?

No thumbs up for the change in training program.

I'll save the "idiot card" for a later date

Monolith · 07-01-2004, 08:11 AM

Eh, had some pretty bad insomnia last night. Went to bed at 1am, woke up at 5am. Not "rarin to go," but i couldnt fall back to sleep very easily. I woke up just about every hour until 8 am, when i said fuck it and just got up.

nikegurl · 07-01-2004, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monolith

Eh, had some pretty bad insomnia last night. Went to bed at 1am, woke up at 5am. Not "rarin to go," but i couldnt fall back to sleep very easily. I woke up just about every hour until 8 am, when i said fuck it and just got up.

this very definitely could be from the M4OHN. i've heard others talk about it's mood elevating effect AND that it disturbs sleep exactly the way you described.

Hope you are able to get good sleep tonight.

Monolith · 07-01-2004, 10:34 AM

Yeah, i figured as much. Do you know if the insomnia lasts the length of the cycle, or if its just at the beginning? Any links?

nikegurl · 07-01-2004, 10:40 AM

I think for the people who experienced it...it did last but I know I saw a few posts about taking something that helped.

I'm going to start digging around and see if I can find the links and details for ya.

06-28-2004, 07:08 PM	#1
Monolith OMGWTFBBQ Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: MA Posts: 4,002	M4ohn So... My last experiment ended 2 weeks ago. The cut continues, however (as if it will ever end). I wasnt quite sure what i was going to try next. If you followed my last journal at all, you might remember i mentioned bromo, pergolide, or other DA modulators. I was hoping to give one of them a try, but i also recently started wellbutrin... and its been doing wonderful things for my mood. I'm also still messing with the dose somewhat. So, im hesitant to come off of it just so i can begin fux0ring with some other dopamine drug. I'd like to see how this pans out first. Anyway, my second option was to use some sort of androgen. I really hadnt planned on using these for a while yet... but the impending ban, my growing impatience, and a philosophical change of heart (and all the goodies ive stocked my freezer/refrigerator with) convinced me to give it a whirl. Drug of choice is M4OHN. Feedback seems hugely inconsistent so far. People having wonderful results on 4-8mg/ED, others not "feeling" much as high as 30mg/ED. Maybe ill be one of the lucky ones (although Murphy seems to test his law on me every time i get my hopes up)! Im also somewhat wary about the wellbutrin (as there are some case reports of acute liver failure in people on wellbutrin + other hepatoxic substances; alcohol etc) and a methyl, but M4OHN seems comparatively easy on the liver. Dosing will begin at 8mg/ED, split between morning and late afternoon. I will probably graduate up to 12mg/ED next week, and i doubt ill go much higher, as im going to try and keep this somewhat idiot-proof for my first cycle. I wont be doing any of this cranberry juice crap, itll just be taken with meals. Will probably go 4 weeks, with transdermal 6oxo/7oxo as PCT. Diet will probably remain the same. That is, TP's Carb Cycling w/ H/L/N/H/N/L/N. The only thing i may change is one 'no' day back to a 'low' day, depending on how i react to the M4OHN. Training will be nothing terribly specific... that is, im not doing some well known, name-brand routine. Basically, volume will be increased while (trying) to stay away from concentric failure (although i oddly have the damndest time holding myself back). Other supplements... NAC @ 2x1g/ED ALCAR @ 2x2.5g/ED Alpha-GPC @ 1-2x300mg/ED Lecithin @ 1-2x3g/ED Phosphatidyl Serine... not much left, probably just use it during PCT. Calcium @ 5x300mg/ED Vit C @ 1-2x1g/ED Magnesium @ 5x150mg/ED Random crap in BSL vit/mineral @ 2caps/ED Effexor (venlafaxine) @ 150mg/ED Wellbutrin (bupropion) @ 300mg/ED Fish oil @ 4x4g/ED Digestive enzymes... 3-4 tabs with carb meals only BSL fiber caps @ 2 every other meal Melatonin... ocassionally. Maybe once or twice a week. Tyrosine... ocassionally. Much more interesting on bupropion. There may be some other stuff im just not thinking of right now. Anyway, that about sums this introductory post up. I will be logging my workouts, opinions on all of the shit im taking, and anything else that happens to pop into my mind. Meals wont be logged, but theyre all exactly the same unless otherwise noted. I basically live off of brown rice, chicken, salsa, and whey. Rare cameo's by Albacore, Angus, and the Green Giant are not unheard of.
	http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~ek867/dexamyl.jpg

06-28-2004, 07:14 PM	#2
Monolith OMGWTFBBQ Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: MA Posts: 4,002	Stats as of 6/28: Stomach - 38" Right arm - 16" Left arm - 15.75" Right quad - 25.25" Left quad - 24.75" Neck - 15.75" BW - 220.5lbs BF - somewhere around 17% Today, monday, is the beginning of my weekly H/L/N/H/N/L/N cycle. Meals were the same. If anyone is that interested, they can see a sample of my diet in my old journal (Rebirth).
	http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~ek867/dexamyl.jpg

06-28-2004, 07:22 PM	#3
nikegurl Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: LA, CA Posts: 5,635	good luck! i've been reading up on MO4HN with great interest....
	If you want to achieve things that others can't... You have to do things that others won't.

06-28-2004, 07:49 PM	#4
Monolith OMGWTFBBQ Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: MA Posts: 4,002	Thanks Nike. Training for 6/28: Chest/Biceps/Abs DB Bench 70lbx9 65lbx7 60lbx6 50lbx8 Incline smith 90lbx11 90lbx9 70lbx10 70lbx10 70lbx8 Decline BB 135lbx8 115lbx10 115lbx6 Cable xover 40lbx10 30lbx9 20lbx12 --- Cam bar curl 85lbx10 85lbx8 45lbx10 45lbx10 45lbx8 Hammer DB curl 20lbx8 15lbx8 15lbx8 --- Cable machine crunch 40lbx12 40lbx12 40lbx8 30lbx10 --- Weights sucked. RI's were extremely short, however (30-45s)... and volume was pretty high. Stayed mostly away from failure, but came damn close a couple times... need to work on that.
	http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~ek867/dexamyl.jpg

06-28-2004, 08:28 PM	#5
PreMier happy sumo Elite Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 21,090 Photos: 2	I am following along in this one. Good luck, and I am sure you will have some good results
	P-side Inc. "the post-workout high is more profound than any drug-induced rush imaginable." -Dante B.

06-28-2004, 08:44 PM	#6
Jodi Super Moderator Super Moderator Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 22,265 Photos: 1	You and your chemicals Good luck Monolith no push/pull?
	Essence EFA

06-28-2004, 09:43 PM	#7
Monolith OMGWTFBBQ Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: MA Posts: 4,002	Thanks PM and Jodi. As for the push/pull... still lookin. Might put something together in a couple weeks, but who knows. Tryin to get an idea of all the various routines that hit bodyparts multiple times a week before i go with one. I'll probably just end up with a generic push/pull, though.
	http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~ek867/dexamyl.jpg

06-28-2004, 09:44 PM	#8
PreMier happy sumo Elite Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 21,090 Photos: 2	Why not 1bp a day for 5 days? You have a PM.
	P-side Inc. "the post-workout high is more profound than any drug-induced rush imaginable." -Dante B.

06-28-2004, 09:47 PM	#9
Monolith OMGWTFBBQ Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: MA Posts: 4,002	Thats sort of what im doing now. Monday - chest/bi Tuesday - quads Wednesday - off Thursday - back/traps Friday - shoulders/triceps Saturday - hams/abs/calves I do abs more than once a week, it just varies on the other days. Same with grip work... i try to do direct grip work at least twice a week now.
	http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~ek867/dexamyl.jpg

06-29-2004, 06:32 AM	#10
IainDaniel My Role Model Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 15,633	Good luck Mono, should be interesting to see your results.
	Obstacles don't have to stop you. If you run into a wall, don't turn around and give up. Figure out how to climb it, go through it, or work around it. Michael Jordan

06-29-2004, 11:01 AM	#13
Monolith OMGWTFBBQ Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: MA Posts: 4,002	Training for 6/29: Quads/Grip Squats 145lbx10 145lbx6 135lbx6 135lbx4 Leg press 450lbx10 450lbx10 400lbx9 400lbx8 Machine hacks 90lb (+sled)x7 90lbx5 --- Plate pinch 20lbx90/70 (right/left, seconds) 20lbx60/55 --- Shortened the RI's from like 2 mins+ to 60-90s. I stayed away from failure pretty well today, except for the last couple sets on the leg press. I swear ill be in the middle of a set and before i even realize it im popping blood vessels in my eyes and shooting blood out of my nose before i catch myself. Oh well. Gonna try to get the RI's down to 60s next week, and eventually 30-45s. Grip work was minimal cuz i was running late. Ill hit it a couple more times this week.
	http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~ek867/dexamyl.jpg

06-29-2004, 11:18 AM	#14
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,443	Have you ever thought about dropping all the supplements? how much of that stuff is really working? how much of that stuff cancels each other out? Why not go with no supps for like 6 weeks and give your system a break?
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! http://ivonneberkowitz.blogspot.com/....check out Ivonne's new blog! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

06-29-2004, 03:22 PM	#16
PreMier happy sumo Elite Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 21,090 Photos: 2	Nice workout. Run it by me again why you dont want to hit failure?
	P-side Inc. "the post-workout high is more profound than any drug-induced rush imaginable." -Dante B.

06-29-2004, 03:55 PM	#18
PreMier happy sumo Elite Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 21,090 Photos: 2	What are you doing... some sort of modified TPPT?
	P-side Inc. "the post-workout high is more profound than any drug-induced rush imaginable." -Dante B.

06-30-2004, 06:45 PM	#22
Monolith OMGWTFBBQ Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: MA Posts: 4,002	No carb day today, no gym. Also, as a side note (unrelated to the m4ohn), ive noticed my libido is quite a bit higher since cessation of the sesathin. Nothing spectacular, but better than it was.
	http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~ek867/dexamyl.jpg

07-01-2004, 08:11 AM	#24
Monolith OMGWTFBBQ Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: MA Posts: 4,002	Eh, had some pretty bad insomnia last night. Went to bed at 1am, woke up at 5am. Not "rarin to go," but i couldnt fall back to sleep very easily. I woke up just about every hour until 8 am, when i said fuck it and just got up.
	http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~ek867/dexamyl.jpg

07-01-2004, 10:34 AM	#26
Monolith OMGWTFBBQ Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: MA Posts: 4,002	Yeah, i figured as much. Do you know if the insomnia lasts the length of the cycle, or if its just at the beginning? Any links?
	http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~ek867/dexamyl.jpg

07-01-2004, 10:40 AM	#27
nikegurl Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: LA, CA Posts: 5,635	I think for the people who experienced it...it did last but I know I saw a few posts about taking something that helped. I'm going to start digging around and see if I can find the links and details for ya.
	If you want to achieve things that others can't... You have to do things that others won't.