MonStar's Journal: Return to Westside!

**Mudge** · 09-22-2004, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris mason

I have been using a "hook" grip. The standard hook grip involves an overhand grip where you wrap your thumb with your index and forefinger. This is a grip used quite often by Olympic lifters.

I heard its pretty common with the big deadlifters right now, wouldn't know statistics though.

fantasma62 · 09-22-2004, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonStar

gopro: First of all, no one pressured me into anything. I have no idea at all what you're talking about. Like Chris said, I have been jumping from program to program for years now, it's nothing new. With that being said, don't take me not sticking to your program personally, because it's a common thing for me to change programs on a weekly (or even daily, lol, basis).

SF: I actually brought your name up first, sorry about that bro.

Cyndi: I actually do post my diet on a daily basis if you scroll down my journal entry. I list everything that I eat throughout the day. I am glad that you have found great results with P/RR/S, that's great. I wish you the best of luck with your training and hopefully you'll go far with P/RR/S. I can't really say much about it---since I have never given it a shot. In the future I might give it a full run through, I am not sure at this point. Thanks for the support, though, appreciate it!

Andrea: Hey there, thanks for stopping by, lol. Tons of drama in my journal. Anyway V-12 is a product by SAN, it's actually just a creatine product. I really like it because its sugar and calorie free, and tastes pretty damn good, too.

Chris: Hey man, I appreciate you chiming in here. You honestly probably know me better than anyone on this site. Just because you know me from a few years ago when I first joined at WBB. So like you said, I just have this OCD about changing my training/diet/journal all the time. It's not a habit that I am proud of, but it is a habit and still affects me to this day. I feel like I am starting to get better at it, but again it's tough.

But I also feel that you're 100% right on when you say my intentions are never bad, because they aren't. I didn't mean to personally insult gopro by dropping his program. Nor did I mean to personally insult SF when I dropped Westside the last time. And I didn't mean to personally insult you when I was back at WBB you put together a program for me. And you're right I haven't posted on WBB for over a year now. By the way, I have no idea how binging and changing programs actually has given me the size/strength I have. I can't imagine what would happen if I actually stuck to something, both diet and training wise.

Monolith: LOL.

Tony: I am never pressured into anything bro. No one EVER tries to convince me that their program is great. SF never has, gopro never has, no one ever has. Everyone just talks about their personal experience and opinion with it---that's all. And it's just an obsessive compulsive thing for me to randomly change my training, diet, etc. I have been doing it for years now. Chris can testify that back on WBB I used to change my program all the time. Always looking for something new or better so to speak. Westside was probably the program that I ended up sticking to for the longest period of time.

Mudge: Thanks for stopping by, and clearing that up.

Hey Mike, all is good, I will however continue ragging on you once in a while...I am glad you're ok then.....
Disregard questions, personality analysis, and the whole shabang......

chris mason · 09-22-2004, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mudge

I heard its pretty common with the big deadlifters right now, wouldn't know statistics though.

Really? I don't know of one person who uses it currently. Granted, I only know a few but I know some of the big ones and they use mixed grips.

I'm not accusing you of misrepresenting, I have just never seen it. Can you name someone specifically?

**Mudge** · 09-22-2004, 08:21 PM

Nobody big, just an older guy who is giving me a little advice. He explained the grip and its Olympic roots, and explained that it was gaining popularity as a "virtual strap." I have some clips of this guy and he has some good lifts to his credit although he hurt his back some time ago, he does put up 585 for I believe 3 @ 307. I could ask about Andy Bolton since he is the big puller right now, I have the clip of his lift but its not exactly a closeup of technique.

**gopro** · 09-22-2004, 09:57 PM

Well Mon, I said my piece and got my feelings off my chest. Maybe one day you will switch over to P/RR/S for a bit and maybe you won't. You are doing pretty well and that's all that matters. If you are satisfied with the way you have been gaining then continue switching around as you must. Faith and belief in the program you are using is often the most important thing, as the body will always respond better when you feel good about what you are doing, even if its not optimal.

Good luck...for real.

Monolith · 09-23-2004, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mudge

Nobody big, just an older guy who is giving me a little advice. He explained the grip and its Olympic roots, and explained that it was gaining popularity as a "virtual strap." I have some clips of this guy and he has some good lifts to his credit although he hurt his back some time ago, he does put up 585 for I believe 3 @ 307. I could ask about Andy Bolton since he is the big puller right now, I have the clip of his lift but its not exactly a closeup of technique.

Maybe i'm doing it wrong, but i dont know how in the hell people use that grip. I tried it once a couple months back for SLDL's, and it hurt like a motherfucking bitch. I mean, i was basically crushing my thumb with 275lbs. I cant even fathom how people are doing it with 500lb deadlifts.

**Mudge** · 09-23-2004, 10:38 AM

Mono, the point is not in feeling fruity and delicious, the point is making the lift at whatever the cost in pain endured.

I dont think anyone would need it with a 500 pound dead, 700 or 800+ is where I'd expect it to be seen.

chris mason · 09-23-2004, 11:01 AM

Bolton uses a mixed grip in competition. I had the opportunity to meet him at the Rise of the Dead meet in Orlando earlier this year. I also was sitting in the press row for the meet and was about 5 feet from him as he was making his pulls.

chris mason · 09-23-2004, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mudge

Mono, the point is not in feeling fruity and delicious, the point is making the lift at whatever the cost in pain endured.

I dont think anyone would need it with a 500 pound dead, 700 or 800+ is where I'd expect it to be seen.

Actually, the hook grip is not as strong a grip as the mixed. Olympic lifters use it because it is stronger than a standard double overhand and there is no way they could use a mixed grip.

For powerlifting, I find that it is easier on my back than a mixed grip because it does not cause me to torque my lower back in the same fashion I do with a mixed grip. That said, the hook grip is still a limiting factor. My lower body can pull more than I can hold with the hook (I can also pull more with a mixed grip).

I am steadily increasing what I can pull in this manner.

The fellow who remarked it hurts like a bitch is correct! This is especially true in the beginning and when you push your limits.

**Mudge** · 09-23-2004, 11:26 AM

I dont see why you couldn't use a mixed + hook grip, I expected no less actually, or at least hook for my left which is my weaker forearm.

chris mason · 09-23-2004, 11:41 AM

You certainly could, but there usually isn't a need.

**dg806** · 09-23-2004, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonStar

gopro: The WBB "experts" as you liked to call them completely ripped your program apart, and it was clear as day who had more credibility. Saturday Fever, PowerManDL, chris mason and a few others from WBB completely tore the program a part, from an exercise science/philosophy perspective. That was all the convincing that I needed to drop the program.

Please!!

Anyone who has been here several years knows the truth to this debackle. If you think they have so much more knowledge, then why don't you go to WBB? I don't know these guys and have nothing against them. Once again GP has done nothing but try to help and gets ripped for it. This same things happens time and time again. Someone invites friends to bash someone on this board. Personally I'm sick of it. I'm glad your in such good hands!

chris mason · 09-23-2004, 12:31 PM

Hmmmm, I don't remember EVER bashing this particular program of GoPro's. In fact, I am quite unfamiliar with it therefore I would have no comment on it.

I have never told Mike to do anything other than when he asked ME for a routine. Yep, I too have given him a routine that he did for about a day, but I am not losing any sleep over it.

JerseyDevil · 09-23-2004, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gopro

There's your first mistake...you couldn't leave well enough alone and now I am one tick away from removing your azz.

I can't believe you threatened to ban Mike for voicing his opinion. When I first came on this board Eric, I had the utmost respect for you. I even supported you here and on AnabolicMinds after your defense of the VPX 'delivery' system that avoids first pass of the liver, which I now know is complete bullshit. Your later assertion that you 'knew' it was bullshit but just wanted to show Jack that people weren't that stupid was pure comedy.

Now because you are a SuperMod, I guess you feel you can bully people with your ego. IF YOU BAN MIKE, OR ANYONE BECAUSE THEY SIMPLY DON'T AGREE WITH YOU, then be sure to ban me too. Cuz at that point you can take this website and shove it up your egotistical ass.

**dg806** · 09-23-2004, 07:13 PM

JD, I see where you are coming from, but just take a minute and forget the ph crap. GP has alot of knowledge, and has helped and is still trying to help people. He gets bashed for the simple reason of people not agreeing with him. That happens all the time with alot of different subjects. I've seen these same group of WBB or whoever come on this board for nothing but the sole reason as to discredit GP or just to argue long before you got here. This is not new. Now if I was GP I think I would have got ticked too. And if I would have been him, I would have done the same thing or worse. All he asks for is a little respect and I think Mods of any board deserve that. They put in alot of time for nothing. And when you continue to get bashed, it gets old quick. This board does tolerate alot...more than other boards, but there is a limit and I would hope that people remember this. Everyone is a guest here and Robert has the final say.
Chris himself a few post back said he did not remember bashing GP and I believe it. So that leads me to wonder if Mike is telling the truth? One of the two is not telling the truth.

M.J.H. · 09-23-2004, 07:27 PM

Quote:

I can't believe you threatened to ban Mike for voicing his opinion. When I first came on this board Eric, I had the utmost respect for you. I even supported you here and on AnabolicMinds after your defense of the VPX 'delivery' system that avoids first pass of the liver, which I now know is complete bullshit. Your later assertion that you 'knew' it was bullshit but just wanted to show Jack that people weren't that stupid was pure comedy.

Now because you are a SuperMod, I guess you feel you can bully people with your ego. IF YOU BAN MIKE, OR ANYONE BECAUSE THEY SIMPLY DON'T AGREE WITH YOU, then be sure to ban me too. Cuz at that point you can take this website and shove it up your egotistical ass.

Jesus I can't believe you just posted this!

I type out almost a WORD-FOR-WORD response but deleted it and kept it to myself, because I didn't feel like getting banned. I agree that gopro uses his moderator status to bully people around and convince everyone that his program is greatest thing since sliced bread.

Thank you SO MUCH JD for bringing this up, excellent point. And very well said.

I also am tossing this journal. Its 3 pages long with what 1-2 actual journal entries? That's pathetic. I asked gopro POLITELY over and over again to not fill up my journal with his opinions on my training, etc. And of course, he has no respect for anyone. He could have easily started a thread somewhere else.

Quote:

Chris himself a few post back said he did not remember bashing GP and I believe it. So that leads me to wonder if Mike is telling the truth? One of the two is not telling the truth.

Chris had nothing to do with bashing gopro's program at all. It was a group of members at WBB that tore the program apart. Guys who do not post here at all. If it matters that much to you I am sure that I could find the thread over at WBB and post a link to it. I believe (if my memory serves me correctly) that Matt (PowerManDL) was the main person arguing against gopro. And to those who know Matt, they know he's a training and exercise science guru much like Saturday Fever.

**Prince** · 09-23-2004, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonStar

gopro: The WBB "experts" as you liked to call them completely ripped your program apart, and it was clear as day who had more credibility. Saturday Fever, PowerManDL, chris mason and a few others from WBB completely tore the program a part, from an exercise science/philosophy perspective. That was all the convincing that I needed to drop the program.

I am confused, here you say that you dropped gopro's program because the "wbb experts" tore it apart and that convinced you.

Yet, earlier in this same thread you said that you stopped the program on your own will, and I quote you:

"And I am not sure what you're talking about in terms of peer pressure? I didn't keep up with your program because I decided not to. Not because someone else decided for me."

M.J.H. · 09-23-2004, 07:33 PM

Robert, once again this is getting out of hand, but let me explain. I was going to give gopro's program a shot a few times, actually. Once back when I used to post at WBB. And I posted at WBB what do you think of P/RR/S. And all of the feedback was extremely negative. So I decided to drop the program. (peer pressure, as gopro likes to think of it)

Then this most recent time I decided to drop the program just because. I don't have a reason why, honestly. Just fell under typical OCD.

chris mason · 09-23-2004, 07:34 PM

Hey, why didn't you put me into guru status?

**Prince** · 09-23-2004, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonStar

I agree that gopro uses his moderator status to bully people around and convince everyone that his program is greatest thing since sliced bread.

you know what is funny, gopro has never banned anyone on this board even though he has the power to.

Quote:

Chris had nothing to do with bashing gopro's program at all. It was a group of members at WBB that tore the program apart.

dude, you really should start reading your previous posts, see my above post where I quoted you, chris mason was in your list of wbb experts that ripped gopro's program apart.

chris mason · 09-23-2004, 07:39 PM

I have gotten into arguments with GoPro in the past, but it had NOTHING to do with this program being mentioned. That was also a VERY long time ago on wbb.

Just to be very clear, I have never bashed his program (not sure of the correct name) that we are discussing.

**Prince** · 09-23-2004, 07:41 PM

from a bodybuilding stand point I do not see how his program could be bashed?

chris mason · 09-23-2004, 07:43 PM

I don't suppose I do either since I know nothing about it. If it contains the priciples of progressive resistance combined with sufficient recovery it would be a pretty decent program.

chris mason · 09-23-2004, 07:45 PM

One more thing about me. It was until only the last couple of years that I thought training to failure was optimal. I no longer think that. I suppose I have seen the error of my ways in that respect.

Monolith · 09-23-2004, 07:46 PM

I just took Brownie for a walk. He pee'd on a telephone pole.

**dg806** · 09-23-2004, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris mason

One more

09-22-2004, 09:57 PM	#65
gopro NGA/IFPA Pro Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Florida Posts: 10,499	Well Mon, I said my piece and got my feelings off my chest. Maybe one day you will switch over to P/RR/S for a bit and maybe you won't. You are doing pretty well and that's all that matters. If you are satisfied with the way you have been gaining then continue switching around as you must. Faith and belief in the program you are using is often the most important thing, as the body will always respond better when you feel good about what you are doing, even if its not optimal. Good luck...for real.
	Monthly columnist for Muscular Development and Ironman magazines. VPX Sponsored Athlete/Board Rep www.prrstraining.com Time to GROW Without Plateau! Personal Training Gopro is available for online personal training, dietary guidance, and contest prep coaching. Send me a PM or e-mail if interested. Thank you.

09-23-2004, 07:13 PM	#75
dg806 Guardian of The Homeland Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Charlotte NC Posts: 17,160	JD, I see where you are coming from, but just take a minute and forget the ph crap. GP has alot of knowledge, and has helped and is still trying to help people. He gets bashed for the simple reason of people not agreeing with him. That happens all the time with alot of different subjects. I've seen these same group of WBB or whoever come on this board for nothing but the sole reason as to discredit GP or just to argue long before you got here. This is not new. Now if I was GP I think I would have got ticked too. And if I would have been him, I would have done the same thing or worse. All he asks for is a little respect and I think Mods of any board deserve that. They put in alot of time for nothing. And when you continue to get bashed, it gets old quick. This board does tolerate alot...more than other boards, but there is a limit and I would hope that people remember this. Everyone is a guest here and Robert has the final say. Chris himself a few post back said he did not remember bashing GP and I believe it. So that leads me to wonder if Mike is telling the truth? One of the two is not telling the truth.
	www.sbmuscle.com

09-23-2004, 07:33 PM	#78
M.J.H. Obsessed Elite Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Delaware Posts: 3,587 Photos: 12	Robert, once again this is getting out of hand, but let me explain. I was going to give gopro's program a shot a few times, actually. Once back when I used to post at WBB. And I posted at WBB what do you think of P/RR/S. And all of the feedback was extremely negative. So I decided to drop the program. (peer pressure, as gopro likes to think of it) Then this most recent time I decided to drop the program just because. I don't have a reason why, honestly. Just fell under typical OCD.
	Stats! 23 years old, 5'11.5", 206 lbs., ~8% bodyfat 380/455/655 bench/squat/deadlift (current) 405/495/675 bench/squat/deadlift (goals) The M.J.H. Chronicles

09-23-2004, 07:41 PM	#82
Prince the one & only Administrator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 33,520 Blog Entries: 25 Photos: 313	from a bodybuilding stand point I do not see how his program could be bashed?
	SBMuscle.com - Discount Supplement Superstore AlltheWhey.com - Bulk Protein Powders CEM Products - Research Chemicals & Supplements MusclePharm - Complete Nutritional Arsenal BigBackGrips - If you lift weights you've got to try these grips!

09-23-2004, 07:46 PM	#85
Monolith OMGWTFBBQ Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: MA Posts: 4,002	I just took Brownie for a walk. He pee'd on a telephone pole.
	http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~ek867/dexamyl.jpg

09-22-2004, 08:21 PM	#64
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 22,997 Photos: 1	Nobody big, just an older guy who is giving me a little advice. He explained the grip and its Olympic roots, and explained that it was gaining popularity as a "virtual strap." I have some clips of this guy and he has some good lifts to his credit although he hurt his back some time ago, he does put up 585 for I believe 3 @ 307. I could ask about Andy Bolton since he is the big puller right now, I have the clip of his lift but its not exactly a closeup of technique.

09-23-2004, 10:38 AM	#67
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 22,997 Photos: 1	Mono, the point is not in feeling fruity and delicious, the point is making the lift at whatever the cost in pain endured. I dont think anyone would need it with a 500 pound dead, 700 or 800+ is where I'd expect it to be seen.

09-23-2004, 11:01 AM	#68
chris mason Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 415	Bolton uses a mixed grip in competition. I had the opportunity to meet him at the Rise of the Dead meet in Orlando earlier this year. I also was sitting in the press row for the meet and was about 5 feet from him as he was making his pulls.

09-23-2004, 11:26 AM	#70
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 22,997 Photos: 1	I dont see why you couldn't use a mixed + hook grip, I expected no less actually, or at least hook for my left which is my weaker forearm.

09-23-2004, 11:41 AM	#71
chris mason Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 415	You certainly could, but there usually isn't a need.

09-23-2004, 12:31 PM	#73
chris mason Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 415	Hmmmm, I don't remember EVER bashing this particular program of GoPro's. In fact, I am quite unfamiliar with it therefore I would have no comment on it. I have never told Mike to do anything other than when he asked ME for a routine. Yep, I too have given him a routine that he did for about a day, but I am not losing any sleep over it.

09-23-2004, 07:34 PM	#79
chris mason Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 415	Hey, why didn't you put me into guru status?

09-23-2004, 07:39 PM	#81
chris mason Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 415	I have gotten into arguments with GoPro in the past, but it had NOTHING to do with this program being mentioned. That was also a VERY long time ago on wbb. Just to be very clear, I have never bashed his program (not sure of the correct name) that we are discussing.

09-23-2004, 07:43 PM	#83
chris mason Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 415	I don't suppose I do either since I know nothing about it. If it contains the priciples of progressive resistance combined with sufficient recovery it would be a pretty decent program.

09-23-2004, 07:45 PM	#84
chris mason Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 415	One more thing about me. It was until only the last couple of years that I thought training to failure was optimal. I no longer think that. I suppose I have seen the error of my ways in that respect.