Cardinal

Since registering here quite some time ago, I have always enjoyed checking in on this journal section from time to time (sometimes rather frequently). Lots of interesting stuff going on. I am making a fairly significant alteration to my training long-term and would like to keep a record of it here.

Mainly, I am going to make a focused effort at incorporating a number of Westside principles into my training. The more I consider it, the more I believe my goals of continued strength progression and mass building (by all means not all muscle!) are in line with the Westside philosophy. It is something I could see doing for a number of years to come. It will take me quite a while to develop the overall plan, as I have much learning to do and little experience with westside in the past. Just for clarity, I am planning on applying the principles, not training fully westside.

I'll outline more of my thoughts as I get deeper into the program and have more time to do research. I think I have enough of an intuitive grasp to start applying principles right away. If not, I suppose I'll learn quickly enough! The lifts I am most interested in improving right now are Chins/Pullups, Squat(270 lb 1RM), and overhead pressing. Any and all comments are welcome. I am looking forward to being a more active participant in the journal section here! I'll update as often as time allows. Last few workouts completed will be in next post...

-Cardinal

Cardinal

September 24, 2004

Training: Legs

Squat(5)(22)
250x3(3RM), 245x3, 225x6, 225x2x5
Leg Press(7)(47)
450x6, 450x8, 450x6, 455x6, 410x7, 380x6, 360x8
Calves(leg press)(6)
640x2x25, 640x2x20, 590x25, 590x20
Leg Extensions/Leg Curls
5 sets

Cardinal

September 25, 2004

Training: AM Pull

Neutral Grip Chins*
225x2, 250x1, 260x1, 270x0, 205x7

*Did these with a weighted backpack. Need to bring dip belt next time.

DB Rows(3)
100x2x10, 90x8
HS High Rows(4)
200x8, 180x3x8
HS Pulldowns(4)
200x8, 200x7, 200x6, 180x12
Shrugs(2)
110x2x10
Hanging Knee Raises
HKRx20,12, 15, 12
Curls
50x7, 45x10, 45x7
Side Bends
90x2x12
Pulldown Abs
6 sets
Forearms
9 sets, bunch of wrist curls and whatnot, nothing strenuous

PM

SLDL
225x3x12

Notes

I'll normally denote PR's and strength increases from one workout to the next once I establish a baseline for this particular training style. Workout felt good today. Endurance strength is up somewhat since I started the higher volume work.

Cardinal

To start off, a few notes about food and supplements and such.

Diet Plan

My long-term goal is to bulk. I'll cut before I have to buy an entirely new closet worth of clothes, but cutting won't be a priority for me. I would like to end up somewhere between 230-250 lbs bodyweight. I am hovering around 205 morning bodyweight right now. Psychologically, I would rather not have to live off of much less than 4000 kcals/day. So right now that is a good estimate of my minimum caloric intake. I have a few tricks up my sleeve for how I might be able to accomplish this without becoming a complete lard ass.

Lots of good things come from running androgen cycles, and one of them is knowing quite well how to eat high protein. My plan now is to eat at the upper end of the spectrum 1.5-2g/lb in protein each day coming from mainly whole food sources. Fat intake will be kept minimal, mainly efa's, tagalongs and some evoo or whole eggs from time to time. Remaining calories will come from carbs. Thermogenic effects will be maxed out.

To go along with the philosophy of westside, I am planning to train as much as possible while still making good strength gains and not regressing. To the best of my knowledge, exercise is one of the best nutrient partitioners available and I want to take full advantage of it. I am not a fan of cardio, so I plan to put all of my energy into lifting. I have access to a gym at college and a powerrack/bench setup at home. From time to time I will do evening extra training sessions here at the house. Will just pick some simple lifts to practice like deadlifts/pullups etc.

This strategy should entail quite the caloric costs. If ever I need to eat at a higher calorie level to continue gaining, I assure you that won't be a problem.

Supplements

Got a whole cabinet full of them, well several cabinets actually. I have learned well from my fellow brethren over at supplement central (AL). With the exception of the basics, I don't spend a ton of money on supplements any longer. I have a pretty good idea what works for me and what I need. PH/PS...that is another story.

Right now I plan on using the following:

Multivitamin/Multimineral + extra B,C,E, Zinc
K+, Mg+, Ca+
Fish oil
Creatine
Minoxidil, Finasteride, Nizoral, Spiro (All for thinning hair)

I have also used Nicotine quite regularly for appetite control, but will have to discontinue as it is making my mouth too sore. Bromocriptine I have and am anxious to try.

Cardinal

September 26, 2004
Bodyweight: 204 (Morning)
Height: 6'2"
Waist: Didn't measure (probably wider than yesterday)

Training

Reverse Grip Bench(2)
175x5, 175x6
CGBP(2)
175x2x6
DB Bench(4)
70x10, 70x2x7, 70x6
HS Dips(4)
250x2x9, 230x2x10
Pushdowns(4)
70x10, 70x2x7, 65x7
Flies(4)
50x5, 40x2x8, 40x7
Calves
4 quick sets
DB Laterals(2)
30x8, 30x10

Got in about 25 or so working sets. Felt good the whole time. I planned to train overhead pressing again today but medial delts were really sore from something I did yesterday, so I decided to switch it up and do horizontal pressing and tricep work. Tried reverse grip bench press for the first time today. Took a little getting used to. I hit the uprights a few times with the bar but managed not to drop it on myself, so all was well. My chest normally cramps up too bad to bench, but this time keeping the weight light and using differing grip/grip width helped a ton. Major muscle pumpage toward the end of the workout. 50's were a bit heavy for flies and I sort of ended up doing a mix between a fly and a db bench press.

Tomorrow is a day off. Gonna rest up and pork down some food. Today's diet consisted up massive amounts tuna, my usual gallon oatmeal + veggies and some blue bunny fudge lites. Probably went a bit over my 4000 kcal limit.

Cardinal

September 28, 2004

Bodyweight: Forgot to measure
Height: Still 6'2"
Waist: Growing

Training:

33 working sets total

Box Squat(4)
135x8, 155x9, 165x6, 155x7

Found a box that is the perfect size! The movement felt great and took all of the pressure off my patellar tendon, which has given me a lot of trouble in the past. I was really weak on it though! In comparison, my normal squat working weight is 225 for 5-6 reps per set. and 270 1RM

SLDL
265x7, 245x9, 245x8

Leg Press
410x10, 410x2x8, 410x10, 430x8

HS High Row
200x2x9, 200x7, 200x9

BB Rows
185x2x8, 185x7

High Pulls
90'sx4, 70'sx9

Curls
50x9, 45x7, 45x6

HS Low Rows
200x13

Forearms
45x2x13, 35x2x11

Abs
HKR x 17, 12, 10
Side Bends 80x14

Notes

I focused on letting my shins come back pretty far on the box squats, sitting back and not down. Weight felt comfortable, but I am really weak on this. All tension felt like it was on hams/glutes and lower back musculature. I used a slight rocking motion on the way up. I may start my ME work with a 1RM in GM's next squat session. I want to spend as much time box squatting as I can until I develop some proficiency. I have a lot of ideas flowing through my head but am still not certain of how my routine will eventually shape up. Right now I am just continuing with the philosophy of doing as much work as possible while still getting stronger. So far so good. Endurance strength still seems to be improving somewhat.

Re: weaknesses, I have a feeling hams/glute are going to be much weaker than my back. I am a good puller in comparison to pusher. Lots of learning and practice to do!

Cardinal

September 30, 2004

Bromocriptine

Started bromo today, 2.5 mg taken empty stomach upon rising. I am basically testing it for its appetite suppressive effects more than anything else. Plan is to run it for a couple of weeks until commencement of my next PH/PS cycle. I'll increase the dosage by the day up to 5mg. I had a headache a good part of today leading up to and including my workout. Could have been the bromo. Perhaps a slight mental daze to go along with it. Otherwise no sides. Head felt like a typical dehyration sinus headache. I am keeping some cho handy for possible hypoglycemic problems while training.

Bodyweight: 206
Waist: 36 inches

Training

Max Effort Military Press
135x1
165x1
175x0
Push Press
135x9, 135x8, 135x7
Incline Bench
175x6, 165x6, 155x6
JM Press
155x6, 135x9, 135x9
Pulldown Abs
Standingx15, 12
Knees 1x25, 1x20, 1x8
DB Laterals
30x10, 30x11
Pushdowns
80x10, 75x5

Workout felt good. Haven't done an ME move on Military in quite some time. I am hoping to hit the 175 next week. First time doing push presses also. Felt friggin fantastic. Awesome exercise. Took me a while to get my form down on the JM Presses where I really felt it properly in my triceps. Kept trying to let my elbows flare out and started with a weight that was too heavy for good form.

I picked assistance that I believe will help most with overhead pressing. Basically delt work and tricep work is paramount I suppose. I am expecting some progress from training push presses frequently. I am really curious to see how the conjugated periodization idea will pan out. I obviously won't be applying the other concepts quite perfectly just yet. So it should be a good test if I do show notable progress quickly, it is likely from the periodization. Normal progress = slow.

Jill

Will you be posting your meals

Duncans Donuts

You are doing a lot of working sets. How long are you spending in the gym?

"in the howling bleeding nights, the dogs plunge into the Volga and swim desperately to gain the other bank. The nights of Stalingrad are a terror for them. Animals flee this hell; the hardest stones cannot bear it for long; only men endure."

Cardinal

Duncans Donuts: The last month I have spent in PCT for my last PH/PS cycle. I decided to go with an absurdly high volume routine during that time. Results: pleasant increase in work capacity and muscle pumps, small but non-negligible increases in limit strength.

My training usually lasts 1-1.5 hours for the high volume sessions, roughly an hour for lower volume work. It took a bit of getting used to but I am finally making my workouts more efficient. I used to take really long rest breaks to max out strength potential between sets. Sometimes the first 15-20 minutes are spent warming up thoroughly and building to a max effort attempt.

I think I see what you are hinting at. To test out the new training concepts it would probably behoove me to moderate that volume just a bit to give a more accurate reflection of results. I may do that over the next two weeks and then ramp up again mid-october.


Jill: I certainly can but am often a bit lazy about that aspect of journalling. I remember nutrition facts obsessively well and mainly mentally add up total calories/protein for the day. I know I am keeping fat quite low (40-60g/day), close to 2g/lb protein and the rest clean carbs (some polyols too). Total cals have not been less than 3800 for the duration of my pct thus far. I have gone substantially over 4000 on a number of occasions.

I have been eating about 10-12 meals/day, many of them amazingly similar (protein+ extra thick oatmeal + veggies/fruit). Sometimes I just repeat the same meal over and over, so it can be a bit boring.

A lot of my eating habits are summed up in a thread on satiety and binge control in the diet section for those interested.

Cardinal

October 1, 2004

Latest Bromo News

I took 5mg split up into two divided doses today. No headache at all today. Perhaps it was just dehydration causing the issue. Right now I can't seem to for certain attribute any other side effects to the drug thus far. No hypoglycemia. Unfortunately no notable appetite suppression either
The experiment continues...

Training

Max Effort Pullup
200x2x4
238x1
258x1
268x0
HS Isolateral Pulldowns
270x5 (5lb PR, tough as shit though)
220x9
220x2x8
Shrugs
110x2x11, 110x2x10
HS High Rows
200x9, 200x2x7, 200x9
Hammer Curls
45x11, 45x8, 45x7
Forearms
5 sets
Hanging Leg Raises
3 sets

Notes

Didn't so much reduce volume as planned. I got more than I expected on pullups. My old chinup max is 270 for a tough single, so I guess 258 isn't that far off. Just surprised me a bit.

I did more reading on how to train the overhead press and now have quite the list of movements to employ for assistance/accessory and ME/DE work.

I am basically looking at:
Push Presses
Strict Military Press
Incline Bench
Smith Machine seated overhead press for DE work
DB hang clean and press
Side Press
Bradford Press
Behind neck presses
And lots of tricep work (dips, cgbp, extensions etc.)

I think that is enough movements to work with and help progression. Training maximal effort pullup and chinup work seems to complement overhead pressing since we are dealing with a vertical press and vertical pulls. Coolness. I prefer pullups/pulldowns to rows much of the time anyhow.

Now I just need to nail down what exercises I plan to use for improving on my squat and I should be good to go and might actually be able to outline a specific weekly program. It will likely be 5 days/week training with 3 max effort lifts and 3 corresponding dynamic effort lifts focusing on improving squat, oh presses and pullups/chins respectively.

On a side note, holy crap I am hungry this morning. I plan to keep bromo at 5mg/day as that the max dosage usually suggested. Maybe I will take it all later in the day in one dose and see about appetite suppression. That is when I really need it.

Cardinal

October 2, 2004

Training

ME Goodmorning
135x7, 185x1, 185x1, 205x1
225x1
225x1
Box Squat
165x7
155x9
160x2x8
Goodmornings
155x7
155x6
Leg Press
450x9
450x8
450x6
360x10
Leg Press Calf Work
630x40
630x3x25
SLDL
225x12
225x10

Notes

I had some difficulty with the goodmornings today. They didn't feel like an effective maximal effort exercise. I used a wide stance with toes pointed forward. Focused on pushing my ass backwards and bending at the hips and not the knees. Had bystander watch from the side to make sure the bar came forward past my shins. He said it was well past. First thing to give out was my abs, indicating a weakness there which I knew about. I kept the arch in my lower back fairly well but as I went closer to parallel it started to give a bit. The weight didn't feel too heavy as I am used to maxing with 260-270 on the normal backsquat. Any suggestions for improvement? Maybe I will do a goodmorning squat instead next time I want to max on Goodmornings. I think this exercise may overload the lower back more than I need. My biggest weakness I feel is hamstrings and glutes (leg muscles in general). When I went lighter with the weight on regular GM sets, I got closer to parallel and definitely felt a good bit of work on the lower back and abs. Not quite as much on hams and glutes compared to the good ROM I get from SLDL. I may try to do a gluteham raise on the decline bench at some point. But I will need assistance by using my hands for certain.

The box squats in comparison felt awesome. Load was evenly distributed b/w hams, glutes, lower back and abs. I am quite concerned though that I may lose squat strength temporarily having to employ such puny weights. So I will likely keep the leg press and alternate it with a normal backsquat to maintain my strength. Almost hyperextended my knee on the leg press. I got a bit lazy there on the second to last set and it snapped back a little bit. No pain and I caught it in time, but definitely something to watch out for and control in the future. Knees are not in pain since I didn't squat heavy. That is a good feeling. May go ahead and train ME box squat next workout since this ME move wasn't really that effective imo. Will post rough idea of workout plan next...

Cardinal

Here is the idea I have been working with of late:

Monday: Off

Tuesday:

DE Pullup +
(Pulldowns, HS High Rows, Curls, Shrugs/Power Shrugs,
Forearm/gripwork, abs)

DE Squat (Box Squat, Pause Squat e.g.) +
(GM, SLDL, Box Squat, Normal Backsquat)

Wednesday: Off

Thursday:

ME Overhead Press (Push Press, Military, etc)+
accessory/assistance

Friday:

ME Pullup (Weighted pullups/chins, varying grips) +
(Pulldowns, HS High Rows, Curls, Shrugs/Power Shrugs,
Forearm/gripwork, abs)

Saturday:

ME Squat (Goodmorning Squat, Box Squat, Squat e.g.)
(GM, SLDL, Box Squat, Normal Backsquat, etc.)

Sunday:

DE Overhead Press (smith military press)
+ accessory/assistance, abs

That puts a fair amount of work Tuesday (since I won't be training M or Wednesday). I still have a lot of work and tweaking to do with this idea. But I'll be hitting 2x per week on bodyparts and major lifts trained, which I think should help with strength. It is not so dissimilar to the push/pull/legs setup I have used since may. I am hoping to avoid significant overlap with this setup. Comments or suggestions?

Dante B.

Nicotine gum or lozenge? The gum can do that, if it's used frequently; the lozenges leave you with a fuzzy feeling instead.

Looks like you've made terrific progress, going by what I can recall from one of your earlier journals at AL.

Not to see many things, not to hear many things, not to permit many things to come close - first imperative of prudence, first proof that one is no mere accident but a necessity.

Friedrich Nietzsche - Ecce Homo

Cardinal

It is the equate nicotine gum causing the problem. I'll see if I can pick up some lozenges and give those a shot. Thanks for the suggestion! Btw, I have been using the gum now for several months and haven't noticed more than a very slight craving for it if any at all. I read some of your writings at avant on the subject and they are spot on with my experiences thus far. Heck, the sorbitol in sugar free gum is far more addictive ime (I chew gum constantly as I have a neck omohyoid muscle injury and doing so relieves the pain)

Thanks Dante! Means a lot to me. I took quite a bit of time to myself in January/February and figured out how I wanted to work toward progress in life in general (what sort of career to work toward, my bbing goals, how to work toward happiness and what things fundamentally seem to bring me the most happiness etc.). Regarding bbing, I made a long-term decision to focus on bulking and gaining strength. Took a long time (until may or thereabouts) for me to get a good enough handle on my binging tendencies to quit major cyclical dieting and go for straight bulking. Fattening up a bit helped a ton too. Quality of life = much improved living at setpoint.

It is really good to see you back and posting once again, here and at Avant. From what I can tell your time away seem to have been a positive experience. You seem a lot more at ease with yourself and composed.

I have taken quite a few ideas from your old journals and writings and have been able to make good use of them. Even little stuff like keeping a fairly simple diet with few basic foods that you enjoy for example. Helped me understand a fair amount about satiety and how to achieve it.

-Cardinal

Cardinal

October 3, 2004

Bromo
I went with 7.5 mg total today split up into 2 divided doses. 9am and 330pm. So far still nothing special to report regarding appetite suppression. Its effects thus far are at best mild. No hypoglycemia to report or other sides at the higher dosing


Training:

Tricep work and more tricep work. Shoulders didn't feel recovered enough to give them a thrashing today. I think it was a good decision.

CGBP
175x2x7
175x6(failure)

Got an extra rep on the first two sets here. Attributable to improvements in bench form. Tried to use leg drive to drive lats into bench, shoulder blades pulled together, elbows tucked (damn right elbow keep trying to flail outward), drive the bar in a straight line thinking about pushing toward feet and not up. Tried to stay tight overall.

HS Dips
250x12
250x11
250x10

DB Bench
70x10 (failure on lockout)
70x2x7

Pushdowns
75x11
75x8
75x7

Back Extensions
1x20

Lat Pulldown Abs
85x20
95x12
95x10
95x9
95x8

Hex DB Pushups
1x20
1x15

Really enjoyed the pulldown abs. Quite exhausting actually for an ab exercise. I was really feeling some stiffness and soreness from the Goodmornings and Deadlifts yesterday.

I did a fair amount of reading on elite yesterday and this morning. Ran through several helpful articles including the 8 keys by Dave Tate. Gives a better feel for what Westside style training is all about. I tried bringing a better more competetive attitude to the gym and it really helped with workout intensity and focus today. I did feel a bit beat up from the last few training sessions and probably wouldn't have made it through the workout so well without having spent some time reading and getting some motivation from the articles.

Dante B.

Yes, Equate (and all generic nicotine gum) comes only in the "Classic" Nicorette flavor. Clever marketing euphemism, for "Classic" apparently means: Pepper-tinged Rat Feces

It would be harder to market "Pepper-tinged Rat Feces," I gather. The mint and orange Nicorette actually isn't that bad, and it doesn't have the pronounced peppery bite of the original. If cost is an issue (as the brand name costs significantly more), several online sites sell Nicorette orange and mint for approximately the same price you'd pay for the generic original (believe there are stores on Yahoo, though I've also ordered overseas from discountnicorette).


Time spent alone does wonders. A shame most people fear being alone. I've spent the majority of my time after quitting my job with AL living as a hermit. As I've done often in the past. Glad you have a clearer picture now.

I had to rebuild my psyche and my mind as a whole from the ground up. Lost some of my memory. Now I avoid situations where I'd be forced into negative habits (dealing with people who annoy me, etc). I like the people here, because it's a laid-back and thoroughly pleasant community. It forces me to behave

Yes, whether bulking or cutting, it's especially beneficial for us obsessive types to keep it simple. If you introduce too many elements into a picture, you'll lose track of the whole if one little piece is thrown out of focus. Reduce the number of the pieces, and life is easier.

If you establish ahead of time what you're generally going to eat, you'll obviate the need to count calories, falling into a trap where energy is spent obsessing over numbers. Lifting should benefit your life, not detract from it.

As for your routine:

There are always elements that can be rearranged. So long as it's simple, without any excessive overlap between bodyparts, then it will be effective so long as volume is moderated. At the end of the day, anything that you can repeatedly put yourself into and thoroughly enjoy will reap the greatest rewards; dedication isn't the ability to strangle yourself with details that are divorced from a coherent whole.

See too many people who overcomplicate their diets and routines, with little to show for it.

Will give it a closer look later.

Not to see many things, not to hear many things, not to permit many things to come close - first imperative of prudence, first proof that one is no mere accident but a necessity.

Friedrich Nietzsche - Ecce Homo

Cardinal

That is a large part of why I decided to keep a journal here as well. In real life, I am very laid back and calm. Takes a fair amount of ephedrine and caffeine to generate any meaningful amount of anxiety =D

After studying physics on and off for 4 years (now going into finance/accounting) I tend to see a lot of things in terms of numbers and equations. Lifting and applied nutrition provide a nice mental break and balance for me as much of my day is often spent analytically solving problems and learning stringent rules(acct).

Yep, you pretty much hit it. Right now it is somewhat overcomplicated with a bit more volume than I should be handling (at the moment). Stark contrast to my diet which is uber simple. I am sort of in a learning stage regarding many Westside type of exercises, so I have a pretty long and overly complicated list going at the moment. I am really enjoying the process though and the new style of training. Things will simplify within the next month or so once I nail down exactly what I will be doing. I can alway fall back on a more traditional proven westside template if things aren't working out as I like.

Cardinal

10mg Bromocriptine Update

This definitely deserves its own post =D

I finally noticed some effects from taking Bromo. I took the first 5mg dose at 8am followed by a second at 1pm, exactly double the max recommended dose. I understand the appetite suppression it gives now. I went to down one of my thick non-caloric, 1liter fiber shakes between meals and couldn't frigging finish it (well didn't want to anyway)! May not sound like much but that is a first for me. I usually can take out about 8 of those in any given day with no trouble. That is exactly how it was described to me by a member over at bodyrecomposition. Just what I was hoping for.

I felt a little light headed and maybe a pinch sick to the stomach after taking the second dose indicating a hypoglycemic response. To test it out, I have been running roughly a eucaloric diet the last few days, with high cho and high protein as a prophylactic measure to avoid possible sides effects and eliminate some random variables that could effect my judgement.

Now I want to see if I can time the dosings a bit better to correspond to when I need the suppression the most (4pm-8pm roughly). I'll also need to reduce the dose slightly to make it more cost efficient and to help with the hypoglycemic response. Another reason the sides aren't so bad for me is that I am not touching cardio training with a ten foot pole. That seems to be where a lot of folks get into trouble (low cho, low calories, lots of cardio and don't have cho handy for bad situations).

I am working on a little addendum to a satiety post I made in the nutrition section. Last main part of my binging problem to overcome is finding ways to handle evening and nighttime hunger a bit better. Hopefully, I will be able to make the bromo work in this regard safely without negatively impacting sleep.

Add one more tool to the old bag of tricks. Now if my cheap ass can just find a less expensive source for it, I'll be all set.

Cardinal

October 5, 2004

Training

Squats
225x6
225x5

Box Squats
165x2x7
165x2x6

Pullups (lighter weight today since eucaloric diet)
BWx11
BWx2x8

Shrugs
275x10
325x5
375x6

These are bound to be more effective than DB shrugs since I can overload to such a great extent. Grip isn't a problem except the smith machine was a little awkward to work with in general.

SLDL (light and easy, but I was near exhausted at this point)
225x12
225x11

Hammer Curls
50x9
45x9

Hanging Knee Raises
1x17
1x13
1x12

Notes

Talk about dragging ass today. If it wasn't for the caffeine, I don't think I would have even made it to the squat rack at all. Missed out on about 3 hours sleep last night (up studying). Some positives though. Energy picked up a bit as the workout went on and since I was lighter today, I hit more than 10 pullups with bodyweight for the first time. Might could have hit a dozen if I pushed it. I felt pretty weak on the squats. Getting right depth was awkward. Was happy to get to the lighter weight box squats.

One final thing I am finding to be helpful...I think I am going to switch exercises quite often between one workout and the next. It seems to let me train bodyparts just fine after 72 hours rest due to different mechanical stresses and presumable different amounts of cns stress also. For example, I'll hit up heavy goodmornings next squat/dl day and leg press instead of squat. Same thing I am noticing with overhead pressing versus horizontal pressing.

Dante B.

It never hurts to experiment with your routines: volume, frequency, rest intervals exercise selection, and so on.

Most people cut their cookies with a cutter, and limit themselves to what worked for others. So if you enjoy the routine you've set up, milk it before it's dry, then change it up. If you're ever depressed, or in need of a serious jolt, ROB-style training (very low rest intervals) is absolutely splendid.

Some lifters set up a push-pull as horizontal/vertical split.

I avoid dealing with numbers, if I don't have to, as it triggers my OCD (used to thoroughly fuck up my workouts in the past, even by counting reps and sets).

How do you feel on the bromo? Speaking in general, anyone who's dealing with depression should avoid it; they should definitely avoid pergolide - that's just ridiculous. I'd take nicotine over bromo anyday - again, speaking in general. Mastersmarketing.com, if you haven't checked them out, may have a better price. I've always been pleased with their service.

Not to see many things, not to hear many things, not to permit many things to come close - first imperative of prudence, first proof that one is no mere accident but a necessity.

Friedrich Nietzsche - Ecce Homo

Cardinal

I completely and totally forgot about the ROB approach. I have been so absorbed in reading about Westside and other powerlifting/strength oriented training protocols of late. Thanks for bringing this to the forefront of my attention. I recall you having a really good experience with it a while back. I haven't visited Rob's site in quite some time. Gonna have to see how the forum is doing.


I am going to take the next week or so to give time for a more proper evaluation (should probably run it even longer). Physiologically, I made myself a bit sick on the 10mg as evening approached. The appetite suppression didn't wear off until about 9pm (doses 8am and around 1pm, 5mg each). I pretty much regained my normal appetite at that time.

I ate several evening meals (4pm-8pm) when my appetite is usually the strongest. After a can of tuna and only 1-2 cups oatmeal, I was getting pretty strong signals to put the fork down and not go for anymore. The desire was essentially gone. Moreover the recurrent thoughts to binge were also absent until around 9pm for the most part. That is what has impressed me the most thus far. For the first time, force feeding seems to have meaning to me beyond just eating more food volume than my stomach can take. My sleep was exceptional (I was also exceptionally tired), so I am not at all afraid of trying it later in the day.

Psychologically, I am probably a poor test subject regarding depression. As to how the bromo might exascerbate other psychological problems, again, poor test subject. I just don't seem to react really strongly to emotional situations for the most part and retain composure. Overall, the psychological effects on me are likely to be mild in comparison. Regarding other drugs that tend to have a depressive effect, I have mainly only experienced negative sides from alcohol (most types of alcohol just put me in an unproductive stupor and a daze overall, that is really all I have to base an opinion on now).

Thus, so far it is mainly the physiological symptoms I am noticing directly (hypoglycemic response, getting dizzy, light-headed, sick stomach). I don't think it will keep me from being mentally productive as long as I can keep the hypoglycemia under control.

Cardinal

Mastersmarketing is an interesting concept. I'll see what they can offer me. Good resource.

Of the three most poplular and readily available and well known(to bbers) appetite suppressants (E HCL, Nicotine and Bromo), I would probably take nicotine also. I like the cognitive effects like improved focus, along with the more direct and immediate (not so long lasting) appetite supressive effects. It is a much milder stimulant than ephedrine without the anxiety and other potential side effects like bph and possible cardiac issues. I am don't really want to function jacked up on stimulants all the time. Went years with a modicum of caffeine and had no troubles.