Striving for Elusive Lean Gains (LG Mass)

**MorteSubite** · 03-12-2005, 06:26 PM

Here's my first journal on here. I'm currently 168lbs, 6', and 21 years old. My body fat is about 13.5% currently as a very rough estimate.

I have been weight lifting seriously for approximately 2 months now.

Bf is estimated with a Taylor scale (accurate to .5%, according to them...)

I will add some pictures shortly aside from the avatar shot.

Goals:

Gradually increase to 180lbs at approximately the same body fat over the next 3-4 months or so. I'd love to decrease body fat in the process, but I'll try to keep the goals modest.

Supplements:

All the Whey - Isolate
-taking about 22g protein 30min preworkout and 30g protein postworkout

Creatine Ethyl Ester - from CNW
-taking about 4g about 45-60min preworkout and postworkout, 4g in the morning on nonlifting days
-started approximately 3 weeks ago

LeptiGen Mass
-taking 2 serving per day mixed with Gatorade powder to make it palatable
-started 5 days ago. I feel a bit leaner overall and it is reflected in the appearance of my abs.

Multivitamin

Green Tea Extract
-2 300mg servings per day. Sundown brand.

Fish Oil - 1200mg
-about 8-10 per day. taken 2 at a time over the day.

Nutrition:

I've played around with my calories and believe my maintenance level is a bit lower than I had though previously. I think my maintenance level of calories is about 2600-2700. I'm going to try stay right about there for my caloric intake as is recommended for LG Mass.

I've started logging my food intake (eaten across 4-5 meals a day) on fitday to keep track of things over time.

Some examples of foods in my diet.
-I usually start things in off in the morning with either a Banana and Milk smoothie (24oz milk, 2-3 bananas), or some eggs (2 with yolks, 3 whites) and 2 breakfast sausages.
-I eat about a cup of oats a day, and have a good amount of ham, turkey, salmon, tuna, and chicken in my diet for meats. I have beef every so often, prepared in a george foreman grill.
-I allow myself about 1 drink of alcohol a week, and sometimes skip it.

I've been eating about 20-25% fat/45-50% carbs/25-30% protein for that breakup.

Injury Info:

I am currently letting my lower body recover as injured my right foot early on last week. I will let it recover (no legs workouts) for a few weeks to make sure I don't reinjure it and I get things healed up. Despite that I still stretch my legs every time I workout.

Workout Strategy:

For my workouts I am using a 6-8 rep scale for most exercises, optimally increasing by 1 rep per week and increasing weights by 1 increment after the 8 rep week. I am looking for a blend of strength and endurance.

This is done my apartment complex gym, which is entirely comprised of machines. Some machines have variable resistance with a lower initial resistance and a high maximum resistance. I'll mark these with a * and average both values for a estimate of overall resistance.

I am working out my upper body twice a week, with different exercises being done each day.

Thursday (3/10) Workout:

Warm-ups (these will always be included, in both workouts)
-Stretching
-Knee Raises (2x10)
-Roman Curls (2x10)

Workout:
-Bench - 130* (first set 8, second set 7, last set 5)
-Tricep Pushdown (done on lat pulldown machine with wide bar) - 60 (8x3)
-Shoulder Press - 84*(first set 7, second set 5)
-Dips - (3x6)

Felt a bit weaker than usual in later sets for bench.
Shoulder press is always a bit difficult with the machine there. I've felt a lot better (can do 3 sets of 8 at 90) doing the same exercise at a machine at another, but far far more crowded gym on campus.

Saturday (3/12) Workout:

-Lat Pulldown 120 (3x6)
-Chin-ups (6,6,4)
-Bicep Curls - 50 (8,8,10)
-Butterflies - 70 (3x6)
-Wrist Curls - 40 (3x10)

Lat Pulldowns felt very good and have always been an exercise that I haven't had a problem with.
I usually die on the 3rd set of chin-ups, they really are exhausting when done properly.

**Robboe** · 03-13-2005, 03:42 AM

Good shit.

I like how you've not set yourself unrealistic goals for as soon as next week.

**MorteSubite** · 03-13-2005, 12:27 PM

Posted start pictures in my gallery. 2 legs and 2 upper body pictures. Taken today. Comments and constructive criticism are welcome

TCD: Yeah, that's just ridiculous. This should allow me to learn a bit more over time. I'm reading your journal / conversation with Twin Peak. Looks very interesting. Best of luck for it.

**Twin Peak** · 03-13-2005, 12:36 PM

Interesting. Good luck.

**MorteSubite** · 03-13-2005, 12:40 PM

Thanks.

Going to do light cardio today, basketball for about 30 minutes or so. Hopefully my feet will feel good.

**MorteSubite** · 03-13-2005, 03:47 PM

Ended up playing a 5 on 5 game to 20. Very good game except that I twisted my ankle. Icing it now. Other than that, feet are doing fine.

**Egoatdoor** · 03-13-2005, 06:53 PM

From looking at your pictures, it looks like you have ham hocks for legs( that's good), but you need much more size in the upper body. I wonder long term if you make serious progress training on machines rather than in a gym using free weights.

Your diet looks OK and I like that you have set specific and attainable goals.

**MorteSubite** · 03-13-2005, 07:55 PM

Ego, thanks for the comments on the pictures. I didn't think that lower body and upper body development difference was much to speak of, but it wouldn't be first time I was wrong about something like this.

I haven't done any lifting in any serious manner prior to this January so I'm guessing my legs are doing ok due to basketball, running, or just genetics? Who knows.

I've been thinking of the free weights vs. machines issue. I have the option of training using free weights if I switch to lifting in the mornings (the university gym isn't crowded then) rather than afternoons (peak energy for me during the day).

I'll try out a full week just at the university gym in the soon to see how that feels. Free weight equivalents for curls, military press for shoulder press, bench press, and some other arm exercises. However, some things would still be done with machines, like lat pulldowns, tricep pushdowns, and butterflies. Any comments on that?

**Robboe** · 03-14-2005, 03:49 AM

You look nice and lean so gains should be easier to assess. Have you taken measurements?

**MorteSubite** · 03-14-2005, 02:59 PM

I don't have anything to take them with. I guess I could get a cloth tape measure next time I'm at wal-mart or a similar store.

**Egoatdoor** · 03-14-2005, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by MorteSubite

Free weight equivalents for curls, military press for shoulder press, bench press, and some other arm exercises. However, some things would still be done with machines, like lat pulldowns, tricep pushdowns, and butterflies. Any comments on that?

Its OK to do some things on machines, but progress physique and strength wise comes much quicker for most people using compound exercises on free weights. Compound exercises are those that work several muscle groups at one time such as bench presses, barbell rows, chins, shoulder presses, deadlifts and squats. Pulldowns are fine, but do not neglect barbell rows or chins. I think you can build strength better doing close grip bench presses rather than pushdowns for tris. Building tri strength will also build your bench in the long run as a strong bench press is a product of not just chest, but tricep, front delt and lat strength.

I am not sure what "butterflies" are.

**MorteSubite** · 03-14-2005, 03:55 PM

I have and will continue to be doing chins. Do you think it would be best to simply do one set of chins to failure as opposed to stopping around 6-7, waiting and trying for more? In later sets, I never have the same endurance as the first.

I haven't done any barbell rows as of yet, but I will look up some information for that and try it out. Thank you for the advice on working the triceps.

I guess I got the name wrong for butterflies (not surprised on that). I'll describe what it does. You sit, facing away from the machine and grip a handle (on an extension of the weight machine) with each hand, left on the left side and right on the right. Then you bring the handles in a 90 degree rotation so both handles meet directly in front of you.

**Egoatdoor** · 03-14-2005, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by MorteSubite

I have and will continue to be doing chins. Do you think it would be best to simply do one set of chins to failure as opposed to stopping around 6-7, waiting and trying for more? In later sets, I never have the same endurance as the first.

Myself, I do 3-4 sets, all to failure. You're right, I can never do as many reps the last couple of sets as on the first one, but the back is still working hard and the harder it works, the bigger the muscles get over time. Its up to you how you approach it, but I don't like to stop and "save" anything on chins or pullups.

I haven't done any barbell rows as of yet, but I will look up some information for that and try it out. Thank you for the advice on working the triceps.

Here's a great site someone else led me to which lists and describes almost every important exercise. Bent barbell rows are listed under upper back, but you can also bookmark this for future reference on other movements.

http://www.bsu.edu/webapps/strengthlab/home.htm

BTW, are there any instructors at the university gym who can show you exercises you are not familiar with so that you do them right? If not, is there a football team, maybe the strength training coach can help you out??

I guess I got the name wrong for butterflies (not surprised on that). I'll describe what it does. You sit, facing away from the machine and grip a handle (on an extension of the weight machine) with each hand, left on the left side and right on the right. Then you bring the handles in a 90 degree rotation so both handles meet directly in front of you.

OK, these are called among other things Pec ( as in pectoral muscle) Deck Flyes. Its good for building thickness in the chest, particularily the inner chest, and can be an auxiliary chest movement. But make sure you are still doing benches and dips for the chest also.

**MorteSubite** · 03-14-2005, 05:06 PM

I'll try switching to doing chins until failure. I haven't done pullups in a long time, so I'll try those out soon as well, see how they go.

There is usually at least one trainer available at the university gym (usually just students who are pretty familiar with the equipment). I'll to make sure that I am doing the free weight exercises correctly.

Thanks for the reference information and the clarification on the pec deck flyers.

My next workout will be tomorrow morning at the university gym.

**PreMier** · 03-14-2005, 05:51 PM

Good luck, I will be reading along

**Robboe** · 03-15-2005, 02:32 AM

I've started noticing some of the cell volumising effects this morning (there's nothing else to attribute it to since i'm on the same # of carbs as last week) and i've only been dosing since Saturday.

**MorteSubite** · 03-15-2005, 10:15 AM

My stomach felt absolutely horrible this morning. Barely got down 1/2 cup of oatmeal and my skim protein shake before I got to the gym. I think I need to lay off the spicy foods

Bench and Military Press were done using free weights.

-Bench - 115 (3x6)
-Tricep Pushdown - 110 (3x6)
-Military Press - 75 (3x6)
-Dips - 2x7
-Pec Deck Flyers - 80 x 7, 90 x 6, 80 x 7

Overall, energy was noticeably less than working out in the afternoon, but I tried to get myself excited about trying new things out.

Bench (barbell, regular grip) felt good. I am hesitant to go up too high without a spotter. I can do this comfortably without worrying about getting up the last reps. Next week I'll ask the gym staffer if he can spot me and try to get up a bit higher. 125-135 should be within reason.

For close grip bench, would it be recommended to do that before/after regular bench or would this be done as a substitute?

Tricep Pushdown was done on a different type of machine. Not a lat pulldown machine, but on one of the cable crossover stations; i.e. machine directly attached to a long chinnup bar directly attached to another machine (with both machines being identical). The resistance felt very different than doing it on the lat pulldown machine.

Military Press (barbell) felt good, but unstable. I didn't feel that I was weak in the exercise, but I felt very unstable during the exercise (not to the danger of having the bar flying or anything of that nature). I guess it is due to the fact that machines don't work stabilizer muscles at all and control your range of motion. First set felt good, second set I barely got the last one up, but the third felt great.

Dips were really odd. The exact same exercise as usual, but the upper middle of my back felt like it was in quite a bit of pain (only during the dips). I'm not sure what caused this, so I cut it short at 2 sets. Any ideas?

Pec Deck Flyers was a slightly different type machine that at the apartment gym which accounts for the different weights. The first set at 80 felt easy, but when I switched up to 90 I found the last few inches of the exercise extremely difficult to complete, therefore, I switched back to 80.

Next workout will have: Chins, pullups, bicep curls (probably preacher w/ an ez bar), wrist curls, lat pulldown, barbell rows.

I am this out as a Chest and Tricep breakup on day 1 and a Back and Bicep breakup on day 2. Friend of mine seems to think that Chests should always be done with Biceps, but I think I'll try this out to see how it feels. Any comments on that strategy?

**MorteSubite** · 03-15-2005, 10:22 AM

Thanks PreMier! I hope I accomplish my goals.

I need to my feet and lower legs to get better so I can start working them out again. It's really frustrating.

TCD, check your messages. Sent you a question about volumization

**PreMier** · 03-15-2005, 04:08 PM

You will, just remember consistency is key.

**Egoatdoor** · 03-15-2005, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by MorteSubite

-Bench - 115 (3x6)
-Tricep Pushdown - 110 (3x6)
-Military Press - 75 (3x6)
-Dips - 2x7
-Pec Deck Flyers - 80 x 7, 90 x 6, 80 x 7

For close grip bench, would it be recommended to do that before/after regular bench or would this be done as a substitute?

. After regular bench and it is not a substitute. Close grip should be emphasizing the tris, not the pecs and the weight you can lifts should be much less because you have less leverage and less help from the delts and lats with a closer grip.

Military Press (barbell) felt good, but unstable. I didn't feel that I was weak in the exercise, but I felt very unstable during the exercise (not to the danger of having the bar flying or anything of that nature). I guess it is due to the fact that machines don't work stabilizer muscles at all and control your range of motion.

Exactly.

Dips were really odd. The exact same exercise as usual, but the upper middle of my back felt like it was in quite a bit of pain (only during the dips). I'm not sure what caused this, so I cut it short at 2 sets. Any ideas?

I'm stumped

..hopefully someone with more knowledge of the anatomy and such can answer this.

I am this out as a Chest and Tricep breakup on day 1 and a Back and Bicep breakup on day 2. Friend of mine seems to think that Chests should always be done with Biceps, but I think I'll try this out to see how it feels. Any comments on that strategy?

Its a matter of personal preference. Some people train chest and tris together and back and bis. Myself, I never did the tris and bis justice by fatiguing them with training chest before tris or back before bis. The arms then gave out too quickly. So I usually train bis with shoulders, sometimes with chest and tris are worked after legs.

More advanced bodybuilders may intentionally train tris after chest or bis after back if their arms genetically are already big or overdeveloped relative to other body parts. The fatigue factor causes the arms to quit early and thus get not more overdeveloped.

**PreMier** · 03-15-2005, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by Egoatdoor

I'm stumped

..hopefully someone with more knowledge of the anatomy and such can answer this.

(To Morty)Were the dips with any weight? Make sure you keep your shoulder blades 'pinched' while doing these. I used to roll mine out and extend myself furthe upward(lockout), and I tore my rhomboid in December. Just be careful, and if you were using weight, lower it a bit.

Originally Posted by Egoatdoor

Its a matter of personal preference. Some people train chest and tris together and back and bis. Myself, I never did the tris and bis justice by fatiguing them with training chest before tris or back before bis. The arms then gave out too quickly. So I usually train bis with shoulders, sometimes with chest and tris are worked after legs.

More advanced bodybuilders may intentionally train tris after chest or bis after back if their arms genetically are already big or overdeveloped relative to other body parts. The fatigue factor causes the arms to quit early and thus get not more overdeveloped.

This isnt true.. I just benefit better with less direct armwork. Doing a set of pushdowns after heavy pressing(including CG bench) yields better results. My arms sure arent over developed. Standard push/pull lists the exercises like this, and many people do it.

**Egoatdoor** · 03-15-2005, 07:52 PM

Originally Posted by Egoatdoor

.
More advanced bodybuilders may intentionally train tris after chest or bis after back if their arms genetically are already big or overdeveloped relative to other body parts. The fatigue factor causes the arms to quit early and thus get not more overdeveloped.

Hi Premier. I wasn't necessarily saying this was true in all cases. It was just an example of why one may intentionally switch to a chest/tris and/or back/bis routine. I know a female trainer who did the self same because her upper arms no matter what she did before ( high volume, low volume, different reps etc.) kept growing disproportionately to her chest, delts and forearms. Now she can't lift as much weight due to the fatigue factor and the imbalance is starting to work itself slowly away.

**MorteSubite** · 03-15-2005, 09:48 PM

Originally Posted by PreMier

(To Morty)Were the dips with any weight? Make sure you keep your shoulder blades 'pinched' while doing these. I used to roll mine out and extend myself furthe upward(lockout), and I tore my rhomboid in December.

Dips weren't with any weight. Unfortunately, I wasn't keeping my shoulder blades pinched. I'll make sure to do that in the future. Sorry to hear about the muscle tear, that sucks.

Originally Posted by Egoatdoor

. After regular bench and it is not a substitute. Close grip should be emphasizing the tris, not the pecs and the weight you can lifts should be much less because you have less leverage and less help from the delts and lats with a closer grip.

I'll try out 75 or so as a starting weight and see how I do next week

I'm going in tomorrow for x-rays to see what's up with my feet. Hopefully I just have some sprains (feet have had burning pain in the forefoot underneath the balls of the feet) the past day or two. I'm praying I didn't cause a stress fracture with any stupidity on my part.

If so, I'll be a funny looking guy in the gym working out with some type of heavy brace/cast

As far as with working arms separately from chest or back, I don't think my strength is much different. I have done curls as the first part of my workout and later after bench and shoulder press without significant difference in strength. Maybe that's odd, but I don't think it makes a heck of a lot of difference for me.

**MorteSubite** · 03-16-2005, 08:32 AM

Weighed in this morning. 165. I think I underestimated my maintenance calories necessary.

**MorteSubite** · 03-17-2005, 09:58 AM

Today's workout:

Lat Pulldowns - 120 3x7
Chinnups - 6,4,5 - very smooth bar, my grip suffered in later sets.
DB Rows - 40 3x8
Sitting Preacher Curls - 45 3x7 - need to find out the exact weight of the ez bar, estimating at 15 for now. used to do curls standing at the other gym, getting used to this.
Wrist Curls - 45 3x8

Felt pretty good overall, more energy than on my workout on Tuesday.

LG Info:
Seem to be getting a dry mouth more often taking LG Mass than previously. Seeing some effects of cell volumization and oddly, a slightly better sense of well being.

Other Info::

Slightly upset stomache (not nearly as bad as Tues.) this morning (had a Grilled Chicken Salad in Balsamic Vinegar for my last meal last night).

Doctor thinks that I have Plantar Fasciatis in my feet (which is often characterized by substantial heel pain). I didn't think that was the case as pain has been concentrated underneath the balls of my feet. As my right foot has been a significant amount worse than the left, I had them take x-rays of it to look for a stress fracture or something of that nature. I should find out those results this afternoon. In the meantime, I'm taking Ibuprofen as an anti-inflammatory.

**Robboe** · 03-17-2005, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by MorteSubite

LG Info:
Seem to be getting a dry mouth more often taking LG Mass than previously. Seeing some effects of cell volumization and oddly, a slightly better sense of well being.

Yup, as you know, i have dry mouth also.

Other Info::

Slightly upset stomache (not nearly as bad as Tues.) this morning (had a Grilled Chicken Salad in Balsamic Vinegar for my last meal last night).

Without giving TMI, have you noticed any effect of LG on your "emissions"? I've found it doesn't give me them, but if i have them, it seems to potentiate them. lol.

**MorteSubite** · 03-17-2005, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by TCD

Without giving TMI, have you noticed any effect of LG on your "emissions"? I've found it doesn't give me them, but if i have them, it seems to potentiate them. lol.

Haven't noticed any effects on that.

I did just get off the phone with the doctor. No bone problems with my feet. Apparently where the plantar fascia muscle attaches to the forefoot is just very inflamed. I hope to have this rehabilitated sufficiently in the next month

**M.J.H.** · 03-17-2005, 01:59 PM

Good luck bro!

**PreMier** · 03-17-2005, 04:03 PM

Would some kind of arch support help this?

**MorteSubite** · 03-17-2005, 07:03 PM

Originally Posted by PreMier

Would some kind of arch support help this?

Probably, I have a high arch so that could use some help. The problem is making sure that things don't worsen things. I've tried overall full-length gel inserts, which increased pain dramatically.

I'm going to be getting a new pair of sneakers for workouts and basketball in the next few days. My current exercise sneakers are about 7 months old and quite worn from basketball

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