About that time II (training)

Brutus_G · 01-28-2007, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double D

As many know my pullups are very strong along with my pulling in general. I never do weighted pullups, but I had to do only 4 reps, so there we have it.

Do some more D that shit's impressive!

Malley · 01-28-2007, 05:37 PM

Thanks Brutus. I hate pullups. They are just so damned hard and sometimes I get so damned lazy. As far as doing alot of reps with it, I really cant. I betcha I could only get about 18 bw reps. But I am not a rep guy, haha.

Andalite · 01-28-2007, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoubleD

Andalite-Yeah post it, I want to learn about everything there is to know.

ok here u go then buddy:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fortified Iron

Hypertrophy Program!! YAY for NO ISOLATION!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Feedback has been really good w/ this program as of late. I keep getting a ton of pm's and messages asking to help people design a program. Neways, I posted a similar thing on the BFT thread. That was adviced for a past individual who was looking for a change in program. This program is great for the upper level beginner and intermediate lifter!

Quote:

Week 1: 3x12
Week 2: 3x10
Week 3: 3x8
Week 4: 4x6
Week 5: 5x5
Week 6: 8x3
(You will do this on ALL lifts)

-OR-
Week 1: 3x12
Week 2: 3x12
Week 3: 3x10
Week 4: 3x10
Week 5: 3x8
Week 6: 3x8
Week 7: 4x6
Week 8: 4x6
Week 9: 5x5
Week 10: 5x5
Week 11: 8x3
Week 12: 8x3

Lower
Upper
off
Lower
Upper
off
off

Upper Day 1:
- Bench Press
- Close Grip Bench
- Military Press (standing)
- Pendlay Row

Lower Day 1:
- Conventional Deadlift
- Narrow Stance Squat
- SLDLs
- Barbell Shrugs

Upper Day 2:
- DB Bench
- Narrow Grip Incline
- Plate Raise
- Pull-Up w/ weight

Lower Day 2:
- Narrow Stance Squat
- Goodmorning
- Reverse Hyper
- Dumbell Shrugs

** This is the program, DO NOT SUBTRACT any of the exercises! If you dont know how to do them, learn how to do them! The only reason you should ever pull out any of these during the whole 5 week cycle is if you feel pain doing them. If you dont know the lift I'd suggest doing an alternate pattern with the movement. Basicly rather than progressing with the given rep/set pattern I've showed continue to do:

3x12
3x10
3x8
3x8
3x8

Once you start the cycle over again after the 5th week, you can then continue the same rep/set pattern as the first outline (with the regular lifts) and progress in the lower reps. This will 1. Keep you from getting hurt, 2. Teach your form, and 3. Break the learning chain/curve. Its key that if you dont know anything about the movements that you spend as much time working with them and do as many reps as possible with the given movement. This is where motor skills develop and intra-inter neuromuscular coordination develop w/ the movement.

** Biceps/Abs, Upper day's throw in a bicep exercise if you want. On lower days throw in some Ab work. This is an accesory work, so its not that important. Keep the reps around 3x8-4x6 if you want. Be aware that isolation movements are GAY and that people spend to much time training them when they are 150 pounds!

** Keep a journal that I'll have access too. I'll look at how your progressing. If you have any before pictures send them to me or save them. Once your done with the first meso cycle compare your progress from before you started till then w/ pics and lift achivments. Do the same when you repeat the cycle. This is key in mental motivation, and that is where to many people fail.

** Once you get a whole meso cycle Wave (12 total weeks) you'll take some low volume work to help recovery. Its key that you dont take ANY time away from the gym. To many people just walk away for a week or two weeks, this makes coming back a sore painful mess for atleast 2 weeks. Now you've spent 4 weeks without making any progress. This is a typical deloading pattern. By trianing under your adaptive threshold (ie low volume) then you will not adapt, therefor you will recover. This is the fundomental bases of periodization!!

** During the first few 4 weeks you can add in failure work. Dont do it on all lifts and dont do it on squats, squat variations or deadlifts. Rows, Shrugs, db benching are all ok. Another thing to keep note on is during the WHOLE cycle you want SHORT rest periods. Im talking 30-60 seconds between sets, this comes key when you get to the intensity portion (8x3). Fatigue has a positive effect on IGF-I and other singaling for hypertrophy. On weeks 4-6 this is a big factor in the program. This will help with conditioning the muscle and overal work capacity.

Kc

------x-----

the entire thread is out here: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/for...ead.php?t=7586

a lot of the big guys (like you) whom i talk to online helped me design my version of this same routine. the reason i modified it is because i dont like all the exercise choices. so this is what I got for myself:

Upper Day 1:
- Flat Bench Press
- Pendlay Rows
- Military Press (standing)
- Lat Pull Downs

Lower Day 1:
- Olympic Squats
- SLDLs
- Hammer Strength Leg Press
- Barbell Shrugs

Upper Day 2:
- Incline Bench
- Hammer Strength Rows
- Hammer Strength Bench Press
- Cable Rows

Lower Day 2:
- Low box Squats
- Goodmorning
- Reverse Hyper
- Dumbell Shrugs

actually, if u read that thread thoroughly u will see Lyle's recommendations on this and they are similar to my modifcations..

Malley · 01-28-2007, 06:59 PM

Well I dont see any core work on that routine however.

Andalite · 01-28-2007, 07:12 PM

do u mean abs? i think lyle and FI both mention doing abs during ur lower workout....and reverse hypers falls into the lower back category.

Malley · 01-28-2007, 07:15 PM

Well if you look at my workout I posted really closely you will see that 2 of the days really involve core lifts. Not so much abs in general, but things that require the core to be worked along with the muscles at hand.

**P-funk** · 01-28-2007, 07:19 PM

It looks pretty good.

I agree with lyle on the pushing and pulling ratio that was in the FI's original post (which it looks like you changed day 2 around to something else. I would put in a vertical pull movement in there instead of the hammer strength rows).

I also agree with lyle on the first exercises doing some heavier work and the secondary exercises doing more metabolic type work. That is something that I have been advocating for awhile. It doesn't mean that you can't do it like that though. The current program I do is the same intensity each day. Either way though.

Andalite · 01-28-2007, 07:20 PM

im dumb. i dont quite know what u mean by core. however, i listed the above routine as a simple guideline. if u want u can do ur program and simply periodize it using the set-rep scheme mentioned above.

Andalite · 01-28-2007, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

I would put in a vertical pull movement in there instead of the hammer strength rows).

oh sorry...i meant to add in thick bar lat pull downs.....my bad.

Malley · 01-28-2007, 07:26 PM

Hey P I am currently cutting do you think I should use the 8x3 on my final week or leave it 3-4x4 the whole time? My routine I am doing is right up there at the top I believe if not theres then it is on the last page.

Tom_B · 01-28-2007, 07:52 PM

Great pull-ups there DoubleD! LOL - I can only do about 4 with just my bodyweight!
Hows the cut going so far? Also are you going to do / post some measurments that you can also gauge your progress by?

Malley · 01-28-2007, 07:53 PM

Well not so much Tom. I havent done any measurements yet. I can tell by the mirror and thats cool with me. Things are going excellent so far. Hell for the past 4 days I havent even been hungry at all! Now if thats not awesome nothing is!

**P-funk** · 01-28-2007, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double D

Hey P I am currently cutting do you think I should use the 8x3 on my final week or leave it 3-4x4 the whole time? My routine I am doing is right up there at the top I believe if not theres then it is on the last page.

what do you mean by keep it 3-4 x 4 the whole time? Are you doing that on every exercise? I don't see your program, that is why I am asking.

How long do you plan to stay at that intensity?

Malley · 01-28-2007, 08:08 PM

Heres the program. The same as DOMS. He wanted me to give er a try and I figured it looked good to me.

Upper Strength
DB Bench
OH DB Press
T-Bar Rows
Yates Rows or Pullups

Lower Strength
Front Squat
BB Hack Squat
DB Side Lunge
Zercher Good Mornings

Upper Core
T-Push Ups
Unsupported DB Rows
Saxon Side Bends
Unilateral Bench

Lower Core
DB Snatch
Romian Deadlift
OH Squats
Pistol

I mean that as far as the strength days. Normally I wanted to shoot for a 6-7rm. Simply because its only 2 days of lifting very heavy. What do you think about that?

**P-funk** · 01-28-2007, 08:14 PM

okay, that is not a program. All I see is a training split and exercises.

What are the sets, reps, rest intervals? Is there specifc rep tempo's to be followed. And finally, how are you progressing those variables?

Andalite · 01-28-2007, 08:22 PM

^^^ thats why i suggested FI's program. but i see where ur getting at.

Malley · 01-28-2007, 08:23 PM

Sorry P your right. I am at work and was in the process of doing one thing while another. Heres my sets and reps for core days:

Really no tempo, just more like very controlled on core days and on strength days 1 down/slight pause/ explode up.

week1- 3 sets x 8 reps@90sec rest
week2- 3 sets x 9 reps@90sec rest
week3- 4 sets x 9 reps@90sec rest
week4- 4 sets x 9 reps@75sec rest

As far as strength days go I was simply going to go by how I felt. Normally doing 3x4 on all strength lifts at 2 mins RI. However I thought about going something like

Wk1-3x4 @2mins RI
Wk2-4x4 @2 mins RI
Wk3-5x3@2.5mins RI
Wk4-5x4 @ 3mins RI

Horrible, ok, good?

**P-funk** · 01-28-2007, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double D

Sorry P your right. I am at work and was in the process of doing one thing while another. Heres my sets and reps for core days:

Really no tempo, just more like very controlled on core days and on strength days 1 down/slight pause/ explode up.

week1- 3 sets x 8 reps@90sec rest
week2- 3 sets x 9 reps@90sec rest
week3- 4 sets x 9 reps@90sec rest
week4- 4 sets x 9 reps@75sec rest

As far as strength days go I was simply going to go by how I felt. Normally doing 3x4 on all strength lifts at 2 mins RI. However I thought about going something like

Wk1-3x4 @2mins RI
Wk2-4x4 @2 mins RI
Wk3-5x3@2.5mins RI
Wk4-5x4 @ 3mins RI

Horrible, ok, good?

It depends on what you are going for.

Training is phasic. You want to have certain goals for certain phases and then the program writes itself.

If you look at FI's program, it is very linear. It starts with higher volume and lower intensity and progresses over several weeks.

So, your goal is fat loss. How are you going to achieve that with the loading you have up there? Would you be better off doing some metabollic work everyday instead of breaking it up over days?

What were you doing with regard to loading prior to this.

That is the problem with 4 week blocks for most people. They think, okay every 4 weeks I change things around as far as exercises go. But, they fail to look at the other variables as far as loading and they just keep training at the same intensity and doing the same old thing.

Malley · 01-28-2007, 08:59 PM

Makes sense P. Before I was doing westside. Training 3-4 days a week doing 1rm's and such.

What do you have in mind? My goals are maintain strength, become more flexible, achieve better balance, and strengthen my core. All while losing bf.

**P-funk** · 01-28-2007, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double D

Makes sense P. Before I was doing westside. Training 3-4 days a week doing 1rm's and such.

What do you have in mind? My goals are maintain strength, become more flexible, achieve better balance, and strengthen my core. All while losing bf.

okay, you were doing westside and hitting 1rm's. Now you want to start a program with heavy 4's. Why not back off for a week and give yourself a break.

Then think about moving to something that allows you to maintain your strength and get far off your body.

Maybe something like having one strength exercise to start the workout and then having more metabolic work to finish the workout. There are a lot of ways you can do it. You have to find something that works best for you.

Malley · 01-28-2007, 09:08 PM

Explain metabolic work. Things like burpees and such?

**P-funk** · 01-28-2007, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double D

Explain metabolic work. Things like burpees and such?

Or just higher rep work.

For example:

tension work
bench press- 3 x 5
cable row- 3 x 5

metabolic work
chin up- 3 x 10-12
overhead DB press- 3 x 10-12
Db curls- 3 x 12-15

Andalite · 01-28-2007, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

Or just higher rep work.

For example:

tension work
bench press- 3 x 5
cable row- 3 x 5

metabolic work
chin up- 3 x 10-12
overhead DB press- 3 x 10-12
Db curls- 3 x 12-15

so then sir, would u recommend a starting strength model along with accessory/metabolic lifts like the one's u have suggested???

Malley · 01-28-2007, 09:23 PM

Is it possible to run that style on strength days and leave the core days as it were? I know its my program and all, but I would figure that would work well. And I assume right there you are referring to strength days.

Damn P, you are always schooling someone. Nomrally not me, but in this case teach me the way master P.

**P-funk** · 01-28-2007, 09:33 PM

i am refering to both of the days. You would then switch around the movements and perform the other lifts in a similar maner.

horizontal work for strength
vertical work metabolic

next workout:

vertical work metabolic
horizontal strength

That is just an idea. I am not saying you should do anything. You could do what you had written down. I am just offering another idea.

01-28-2007, 05:37 PM	#422
Malley Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 10,018	Thanks Brutus. I hate pullups. They are just so damned hard and sometimes I get so damned lazy. As far as doing alot of reps with it, I really cant. I betcha I could only get about 18 bw reps. But I am not a rep guy, haha.
	www.crossfit.com

01-28-2007, 06:59 PM	#424
Malley Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 10,018	Well I dont see any core work on that routine however.
	www.crossfit.com

01-28-2007, 07:12 PM	#425
Andalite PowerBuilder Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Trinity University, San Antonio, Texas, USA Posts: 468	do u mean abs? i think lyle and FI both mention doing abs during ur lower workout....and reverse hypers falls into the lower back category.
	PowerBuilding Journal Part 1 www.StrengthMill.net www.BodyBuilding.net

01-28-2007, 07:15 PM	#426
Malley Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 10,018	Well if you look at my workout I posted really closely you will see that 2 of the days really involve core lifts. Not so much abs in general, but things that require the core to be worked along with the muscles at hand.
	www.crossfit.com

01-28-2007, 07:19 PM	#427
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,561	It looks pretty good. I agree with lyle on the pushing and pulling ratio that was in the FI's original post (which it looks like you changed day 2 around to something else. I would put in a vertical pull movement in there instead of the hammer strength rows). I also agree with lyle on the first exercises doing some heavier work and the secondary exercises doing more metabolic type work. That is something that I have been advocating for awhile. It doesn't mean that you can't do it like that though. The current program I do is the same intensity each day. Either way though.
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! Ivonne's Blog on Health and Wellness! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

01-28-2007, 07:20 PM	#428
Andalite PowerBuilder Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Trinity University, San Antonio, Texas, USA Posts: 468	im dumb. i dont quite know what u mean by core. however, i listed the above routine as a simple guideline. if u want u can do ur program and simply periodize it using the set-rep scheme mentioned above.
	PowerBuilding Journal Part 1 www.StrengthMill.net www.BodyBuilding.net

01-28-2007, 07:26 PM	#430
Malley Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 10,018	Hey P I am currently cutting do you think I should use the 8x3 on my final week or leave it 3-4x4 the whole time? My routine I am doing is right up there at the top I believe if not theres then it is on the last page.
	www.crossfit.com

01-28-2007, 07:52 PM	#431
Tom_B Tom_B Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Amherst, Nova Scotia, Canada Posts: 3,589	Great pull-ups there DoubleD! LOL - I can only do about 4 with just my bodyweight! Hows the cut going so far? Also are you going to do / post some measurments that you can also gauge your progress by?

01-28-2007, 07:53 PM	#432
Malley Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 10,018	Well not so much Tom. I havent done any measurements yet. I can tell by the mirror and thats cool with me. Things are going excellent so far. Hell for the past 4 days I havent even been hungry at all! Now if thats not awesome nothing is!
	www.crossfit.com

01-28-2007, 08:08 PM	#434
Malley Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 10,018	Heres the program. The same as DOMS. He wanted me to give er a try and I figured it looked good to me. Upper Strength DB Bench OH DB Press T-Bar Rows Yates Rows or Pullups Lower Strength Front Squat BB Hack Squat DB Side Lunge Zercher Good Mornings Upper Core T-Push Ups Unsupported DB Rows Saxon Side Bends Unilateral Bench Lower Core DB Snatch Romian Deadlift OH Squats Pistol I mean that as far as the strength days. Normally I wanted to shoot for a 6-7rm. Simply because its only 2 days of lifting very heavy. What do you think about that?
	www.crossfit.com

01-28-2007, 08:14 PM	#435
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,561	okay, that is not a program. All I see is a training split and exercises. What are the sets, reps, rest intervals? Is there specifc rep tempo's to be followed. And finally, how are you progressing those variables?
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! Ivonne's Blog on Health and Wellness! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

01-28-2007, 08:22 PM	#436
Andalite PowerBuilder Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Trinity University, San Antonio, Texas, USA Posts: 468	^^^ thats why i suggested FI's program. but i see where ur getting at.
	PowerBuilding Journal Part 1 www.StrengthMill.net www.BodyBuilding.net

01-28-2007, 08:23 PM	#437
Malley Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 10,018	Sorry P your right. I am at work and was in the process of doing one thing while another. Heres my sets and reps for core days: Really no tempo, just more like very controlled on core days and on strength days 1 down/slight pause/ explode up. week1- 3 sets x 8 reps@90sec rest week2- 3 sets x 9 reps@90sec rest week3- 4 sets x 9 reps@90sec rest week4- 4 sets x 9 reps@75sec rest As far as strength days go I was simply going to go by how I felt. Normally doing 3x4 on all strength lifts at 2 mins RI. However I thought about going something like Wk1-3x4 @2mins RI Wk2-4x4 @2 mins RI Wk3-5x3@2.5mins RI Wk4-5x4 @ 3mins RI Horrible, ok, good?
	www.crossfit.com

01-28-2007, 08:59 PM	#439
Malley Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 10,018	Makes sense P. Before I was doing westside. Training 3-4 days a week doing 1rm's and such. What do you have in mind? My goals are maintain strength, become more flexible, achieve better balance, and strengthen my core. All while losing bf.
	www.crossfit.com

01-28-2007, 09:08 PM	#441
Malley Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 10,018	Explain metabolic work. Things like burpees and such?
	www.crossfit.com

01-28-2007, 09:23 PM	#444
Malley Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 10,018	Is it possible to run that style on strength days and leave the core days as it were? I know its my program and all, but I would figure that would work well. And I assume right there you are referring to strength days. Damn P, you are always schooling someone. Nomrally not me, but in this case teach me the way master P.
	www.crossfit.com

01-28-2007, 09:33 PM	#445
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,561	i am refering to both of the days. You would then switch around the movements and perform the other lifts in a similar maner. horizontal work for strength vertical work metabolic next workout: vertical work metabolic horizontal strength That is just an idea. I am not saying you should do anything. You could do what you had written down. I am just offering another idea.
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on