S20's "5x5 Can Suck My Ass" Journal

Stewart20 · 04-12-2007, 09:29 AM

Coining a phrase I made in a post about the 5x5 routine, I decided to start a new journal. the old journal had become a complete trainwreck, there was just no order to it, nothing, just a new workout pretty much weekly.

I thought about it and came to the conclusion that I was guily of the dreaded overanalyzing everything, and spending too much time planning my workouts and not enough time gaining from them.

The first thing I needed to do was to define my goals. To be as vague as possible, my goals are just to get stronger, bigger, and leaner. I had wanted to bench press 4 plates and squat 4 plates and deadlift 500 pounds, but I decided that as of now, I have no plans on entering a powerlifting competition, so why should I train like one? especially, since I don't have the time, and definitely don't have the energy right now to do that consistently.

I needed to come up with something that would be good for me NOW, during this stage of time where I know I will not be getting good sleep, and therefore have limited recovery ability. I have been feeling completely drained lately, I am sleeping better, (even though I still get up at around 4am nightly for a baby feeding), and I think I am sleeping better cause I am just so exhausted, and this is coming from someone who basically is an insomniac, so you know something is up right there.

I haven't gotten to the point of not wanting to work out at all, the desire is still there, but the body is just not cooperating. So, in an effort to prevent that from actually happening, I am taking the bull by the horns and planning a workout that will help me accomplish my vague goals, while at the same time, not running me into the ground physically.

gone will be marathon workouts, gone will be westside, gone will be the dreaded 5x5 routine (which by the way, I don't know how any advanced natural lifter can do well on), and gone will be "volume" in general. I am opting for something different...

I will call it my 6 and 12 routine. Basically, it will be a full body workout, done 3 times per week alternating between 2 different groups of exercises, but each bodypart will be hit 3 times per week, but only for one working set each time. some exercises will be designed for "strength" purposes and those will be the 6 rep sets. the others will be designed for "strength endurance" and those will be 12 rep sets. I think it will be a good mix of things, and provide a nice balanced routine. What I want to do is after a certain time frame, say 4 weeks, change the reps around, so that the 6 rep exercises become 12 repper and vice versa. After an additional 4 weeks, it might be time to change exercises completely, at least as much as I can from working out at home (I have a lot of stuff, but the lack of machines is what will kill me with variety).

Here is the base routine:
Workout 1
Squats 1x6
DB Bench Press 1x12
Pullups 1x12
Seated Overhead Press 1x6
T-Bar Rows (with "V" handle around barbell) 1x12
Dips 1x6
Seated DB Curls 1x6
Glute-Ham Raises 1x12

Workout 2
Leverage Squat Machine 1x12
Decline bench press 1x6
Chinups 1x6
DB Shoulder Press 1x12
Chest Supported Rows 1x6
Floor Press 1x12
DB Incline Curls 1x12
SLDL 1x6

The workout days are scheduled for M, W, and F, but of course can be changed if there is a need, since it is full body. What I want to do on the off days during the week (T and Th) is do some core and trap work to supplement the rest of the routine. I might do something like a giant set of decline crunches and hyperextensions, 50 reps each, however many sets it takes to get there and throw some shrugs in there for the old traps, maybe a set of 20 or so.

I also am "planning" on trying to cut a few pounds. I weigh around 225 now, would love to get to a SOLID 200 pounds, but we'll see. I am going to try to cut some food out of my daily diet and see how that goes. I usually have a PB and J sandwich every weekday around 11:30, but I am going to cut that out and see if the 400 or so calories I save helps. but I am hungry already, so we'll see how that winds up, hehe. when the weather ever decides to get nice around here, I will go for bike rides on off days.

I think that's about it. Let me know what you all think, and good luck to me!

AKIRA · 04-12-2007, 09:35 AM

Just curious..

Your title peaked my interest so I gotta ask.

Why would a advanced natural lifter have trouble with 5x5? (Ive never done it)

Triple Threat · 04-12-2007, 10:23 AM

Great journal name, you'll get no objections from me.

Just a couple of comments. Why the trap work on the off days? And if you want to cut out the PB&J, but are finding yourself already hungry, why not make it just a PB sandwich?

yellowmoomba · 04-12-2007, 10:36 AM

Wow - S20 - doing a FULL BODY workout ????

The program looks good to me - but I like FB workouts

Put down the PB&J

DOMS · 04-12-2007, 11:28 AM

Why not try HIT?

It'll work well with your limited time goals. Including warm-up, the average workout lasts a total of no more than 30 minutes (usually less). The actual lifting only lasts for 8 or 9 minutes.

Plus, if it's fun your after, the warm-up before the actual workout is (for me, anyway) like the last hour in car before reaching Magic Mountain. It's a great, pleasant, build-up to a fierce workout.

Also, the short, but intense, workout is in line with needs of cutting.

Well, that's my two cents...

Stewart20 · 04-12-2007, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKIRA

Just curious..

Your title peaked my interest so I gotta ask.

Why would a advanced natural lifter have trouble with 5x5? (Ive never done it)

It's not so much a natural lifter as it is a natural lifter lifting significant weights. In my experiences running the program, and Triple Threat as well, (we seem to be the only morons who keep going back to it after not making it through the first 5 times, hehe), it just completely burns me out before I even get to the record weeks.

I feel OK after week1 and after week 2, still ok, but even that week was tough, then by week 3, the previous records week, it just goes downhill....too much volume for a natural trainee who lifts heavy at this point.

I am not even good at the squat, decent at the deadlift and great at bench, but by week 3 on the second day, I wound up with something like this:
Squats 5x5 @ 240
Deadlifts 5x5 @ 365
Overhead Press 5x5 @ 175
Chinups 5x5 @ BW+50
or something like that.....

now you tell me why we burned out after doing squats, benches and rows only 2 days earlier AND having to look forward to squats, benches and rows 2 days later.

IMO, I cannot endorse this program any more for a natural trainee, UNLESS, they are in superior shape, have those good genetics for weight lifting, or have nothing else to do in life but train, eat and sleep. It's just too much.

It might work to bring up a decent base of strength in all these exercises, but like I said, once you reach a certain point, I think it just becomes counter productive.

did that all make sense? Do I sound bitter??

Stewart20 · 04-12-2007, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple Threat

Great journal name, you'll get no objections from me.

Just a couple of comments. Why the trap work on the off days? And if you want to cut out the PB&J, but are finding yourself already hungry, why not make it just a PB sandwich?

That is an interesting idea. Today was horrible. I had a bowl of shredded wheat and 1 scoop of whey for breakfast at 7:30, then had a met-rx bar at 10:30 and was planning on having my next meal at 1:30, but man, I was fiending food at this point. I never ate a grilled chicken sandwich and baked potato so fast....

I don't think this 3 hour thing is gonna work...I seriously need like 2 hours between meals, it's just the way my body is, it gets freakin hungry.

But I like the PB only idea....that would cut out maybe only 100 or so calories though. All things being equal, do you think that will make any difference in the long run?? You figure the whole sandwich is at least 400 cals, I can see that making some kind of difference, but would a measly little 100? that's like 5 jelly beans!

Stewart20 · 04-12-2007, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yellowmoomba

Wow - S20 - doing a FULL BODY workout ????

The program looks good to me - but I like FB workouts

Put down the PB&J

what do you have against PB&J??? it's natural PB, does that make a difference??

I have done the full bodies before, you know that. I did like them, just never stuck with them long enough, you know, my "problem" that I have.

I found that when I did them before, I was so badly out of shape, that the heavier sets of 8-10 reps just winded me so bad, that it made the workout a lot worse feeling than it should have been. I figure, if I incorporate the lower rep sets in there, those sets won't wind me so much, so at least in the beginning, I can get through these workouts, and hopefully my conditioning will improve to the point where I can go to 10 reps on all the exercises.

that is what I really wanted to do, but you all know how I love my heavy sets, so I kept them in there for now

Stewart20 · 04-12-2007, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DOMS

Why not try HIT?

It'll work well with your limited time goals. Including warm-up, the average workout lasts a total of no more than 30 minutes (usually less). The actual lifting only lasts for 8 or 9 minutes.

Plus, if it's fun your after, the warm-up before the actual workout is (for me, anyway) like the last hour in car before reaching Magic Mountain. It's a great, pleasant, build-up to a fierce workout.

Also, the short, but intense, workout is in line with needs of cutting.

Well, that's my two cents...

Actually, it's gonna be a kind of HIT program. That's where I got the basis for the one set to failure idea. since I plan on doing this 3x per week, I won't be doing any post failure techniques or anything like that, I think that would be too much with the frequency...so no rest pauses, drop sets, etc for now.

My problem with calling it an HIT program is that I have to see if I have what it takes to truly call it high intensity. I don't want to label it something it's not. I will probably just do smooth complete reps, 1 second up, 1 second down and just strive to add reps or weight every workout.

AKIRA · 04-12-2007, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stewart20

It's not so much a natural lifter as it is a natural lifter lifting significant weights. In my experiences running the program, and Triple Threat as well, (we seem to be the only morons who keep going back to it after not making it through the first 5 times, hehe), it just completely burns me out before I even get to the record weeks.

I feel OK after week1 and after week 2, still ok, but even that week was tough, then by week 3, the previous records week, it just goes downhill....too much volume for a natural trainee who lifts heavy at this point.

I am not even good at the squat, decent at the deadlift and great at bench, but by week 3 on the second day, I wound up with something like this:
Squats 5x5 @ 240
Deadlifts 5x5 @ 365
Overhead Press 5x5 @ 175
Chinups 5x5 @ BW+50
or something like that.....

now you tell me why we burned out after doing squats, benches and rows only 2 days earlier AND having to look forward to squats, benches and rows 2 days later.
IMO, I cannot endorse this program any more for a natural trainee, UNLESS, they are in superior shape, have those good genetics for weight lifting, or have nothing else to do in life but train, eat and sleep. It's just too much.

It might work to bring up a decent base of strength in all these exercises, but like I said, once you reach a certain point, I think it just becomes counter productive.

did that all make sense? Do I sound bitter??

So you would squats 3 times a week and bench & row twice?

DOMS · 04-12-2007, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKIRA

So you would squats 3 times a week and bench & row twice?

And Deadlifts, too. I did it (Bloodied, but unbound). But, like everyone has been saying, it's not for advanced lifters.

I really liked it. It did wonders for me.

Stewart20 · 04-12-2007, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKIRA

So you would squats 3 times a week and bench & row twice?

yes...
the base template calls for this:
Monday
Squats 5x5
Bench press- ramp up to a heavy set of 5
rows- same as bench

Wednesday
Squats 5x5 (20% less than mondays weight)
deadlifts 5x5
overhead press 5x5
chinups 5x5

Friday
Squats - ramp up to heavy set of 5
bench press 5x5
rows 5x5

And that is the base template. they even mention other exercises to throw in as accessories like arm work and ab work.

Stewart20 · 04-12-2007, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DOMS

And Deadlifts, too. I did it (Bloodied, but unbound). But, like everyone has been saying, it's not for advanced lifters.

I really liked it. It did wonders for me.

It probably worked wonders for you since you were still building up your base of strength. Like I said, for that goal, I think it could be a great program to do, but once you get up there in the poundages, it is a death sentence for a natural lifter.

DOMS · 04-12-2007, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stewart20

It probably worked wonders for you since you were still building up your base of strength. Like I said, for that goal, I think it could be a great program to do, but once you get up there in the poundages, it is a death sentence for a natural lifter.

Yep, that's my belief as well.

Malley · 04-12-2007, 01:54 PM

You know I would add some progression onto your routine. Also what kind of loading are you using? I saw sets and reps, but for how many weeks and are you using any type of tempo? Whats your ri's going to be? Lots of questions I know, but I want you to put a complete program together! I think with a proper program your potential can be maxed out!

Fitgirl70 · 04-12-2007, 02:35 PM

Full body? Sir Arch will be proud

Stewart20 · 04-12-2007, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double D

You know I would add some progression onto your routine. Also what kind of loading are you using? I saw sets and reps, but for how many weeks and are you using any type of tempo? Whats your ri's going to be? Lots of questions I know, but I want you to put a complete program together! I think with a proper program your potential can be maxed out!

I'll address this some time later tonight...

Bakerboy · 04-12-2007, 03:11 PM

Good luck.

Stewart20 · 04-12-2007, 03:24 PM

April 12

Workout 1
2 min rest interval between exercises (gotta work on my conditioning)

Squats
315 x 4
*sucks, but haven't done em in a while, gotta get my groove back

DB Bench Press
105 x 12

Pullups
BW x 12

Seated Overhead Press
195 x 6

DB Rows
105 x 12

5 minute break here--felt like I was gonna puke for some reason

Dips
BW+135 x 6

Seated DB Curls
65 x 6

Glute-Ham Raises
BW x 10

AKIRA · 04-12-2007, 03:44 PM

Each had 1 set, huh? Thats unique..!

Triple Threat · 04-12-2007, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitgirl70

Full body? Sir Arch will be proud

Stew's doing full-body. Arch is doing powerlifting.

Triple Threat · 04-12-2007, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stewart20

But I like the PB only idea....that would cut out maybe only 100 or so calories though. All things being equal, do you think that will make any difference in the long run?? You figure the whole sandwich is at least 400 cals, I can see that making some kind of difference, but would a measly little 100? that's like 5 jelly beans!

Only 100 calories perhaps, but it's mostly sugar, right? I don't know about you, but once I start eating the sweet stuff, I have trouble stopping.

Archangel · 04-12-2007, 05:44 PM

I absolutly LOVE your routine my Friend!!! Sure, you get me into Powerlifting and now your doing a variation of HIT, what the heck is going on here???

04-12-2007, 09:29 AM	#1
Stewart20 I do it all for him Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: in my home gym Posts: 2,859 Photos: 2	S20's "5x5 Can Suck My Ass" Journal Coining a phrase I made in a post about the 5x5 routine, I decided to start a new journal. the old journal had become a complete trainwreck, there was just no order to it, nothing, just a new workout pretty much weekly. I thought about it and came to the conclusion that I was guily of the dreaded overanalyzing everything, and spending too much time planning my workouts and not enough time gaining from them. The first thing I needed to do was to define my goals. To be as vague as possible, my goals are just to get stronger, bigger, and leaner. I had wanted to bench press 4 plates and squat 4 plates and deadlift 500 pounds, but I decided that as of now, I have no plans on entering a powerlifting competition, so why should I train like one? especially, since I don't have the time, and definitely don't have the energy right now to do that consistently. I needed to come up with something that would be good for me NOW, during this stage of time where I know I will not be getting good sleep, and therefore have limited recovery ability. I have been feeling completely drained lately, I am sleeping better, (even though I still get up at around 4am nightly for a baby feeding), and I think I am sleeping better cause I am just so exhausted, and this is coming from someone who basically is an insomniac, so you know something is up right there. I haven't gotten to the point of not wanting to work out at all, the desire is still there, but the body is just not cooperating. So, in an effort to prevent that from actually happening, I am taking the bull by the horns and planning a workout that will help me accomplish my vague goals, while at the same time, not running me into the ground physically. gone will be marathon workouts, gone will be westside, gone will be the dreaded 5x5 routine (which by the way, I don't know how any advanced natural lifter can do well on), and gone will be "volume" in general. I am opting for something different... I will call it my 6 and 12 routine. Basically, it will be a full body workout, done 3 times per week alternating between 2 different groups of exercises, but each bodypart will be hit 3 times per week, but only for one working set each time. some exercises will be designed for "strength" purposes and those will be the 6 rep sets. the others will be designed for "strength endurance" and those will be 12 rep sets. I think it will be a good mix of things, and provide a nice balanced routine. What I want to do is after a certain time frame, say 4 weeks, change the reps around, so that the 6 rep exercises become 12 repper and vice versa. After an additional 4 weeks, it might be time to change exercises completely, at least as much as I can from working out at home (I have a lot of stuff, but the lack of machines is what will kill me with variety). Here is the base routine: Workout 1 Squats 1x6 DB Bench Press 1x12 Pullups 1x12 Seated Overhead Press 1x6 T-Bar Rows (with "V" handle around barbell) 1x12 Dips 1x6 Seated DB Curls 1x6 Glute-Ham Raises 1x12 Workout 2 Leverage Squat Machine 1x12 Decline bench press 1x6 Chinups 1x6 DB Shoulder Press 1x12 Chest Supported Rows 1x6 Floor Press 1x12 DB Incline Curls 1x12 SLDL 1x6 The workout days are scheduled for M, W, and F, but of course can be changed if there is a need, since it is full body. What I want to do on the off days during the week (T and Th) is do some core and trap work to supplement the rest of the routine. I might do something like a giant set of decline crunches and hyperextensions, 50 reps each, however many sets it takes to get there and throw some shrugs in there for the old traps, maybe a set of 20 or so. I also am "planning" on trying to cut a few pounds. I weigh around 225 now, would love to get to a SOLID 200 pounds, but we'll see. I am going to try to cut some food out of my daily diet and see how that goes. I usually have a PB and J sandwich every weekday around 11:30, but I am going to cut that out and see if the 400 or so calories I save helps. but I am hungry already, so we'll see how that winds up, hehe. when the weather ever decides to get nice around here, I will go for bike rides on off days. I think that's about it. Let me know what you all think, and good luck to me!
	http://futuretrainer.blogspot.com/ --My new blog!!

04-12-2007, 09:35 AM	#2
AKIRA I am Rollo Tomassee.. Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Outside the box Posts: 7,765 Photos: 3	Just curious.. Your title peaked my interest so I gotta ask. Why would a advanced natural lifter have trouble with 5x5? (Ive never done it)
	6' 209lbs (8/16) Bench 360 (11/29) Weighted Pullups 80lbs 3x3 (3/19) Squat 370 Deadlift after herniation 385lbs 3x3 (3/17) NASM certified 2/06 Journal

04-12-2007, 10:36 AM	#4
yellowmoomba YM Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Michigan Posts: 5,547 Photos: 2	Wow - S20 - doing a FULL BODY workout ???? The program looks good to me - but I like FB workouts Put down the PB&J
	My Journal "You are born small and weak... you die small and weak... how you look in between is up to you."

04-12-2007, 11:28 AM	#5
DOMS Metrosexual Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: In a van, down by the river... Posts: 21,512 Photos: 5	Why not try HIT? It'll work well with your limited time goals. Including warm-up, the average workout lasts a total of no more than 30 minutes (usually less). The actual lifting only lasts for 8 or 9 minutes. Plus, if it's fun your after, the warm-up before the actual workout is (for me, anyway) like the last hour in car before reaching Magic Mountain. It's a great, pleasant, build-up to a fierce workout. Also, the short, but intense, workout is in line with needs of cutting. Well, that's my two cents...
	I never lie because I don't fear anyone. You only lie when you're afraid.—John Gotti

04-12-2007, 01:54 PM	#15
Malley Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 10,008	You know I would add some progression onto your routine. Also what kind of loading are you using? I saw sets and reps, but for how many weeks and are you using any type of tempo? Whats your ri's going to be? Lots of questions I know, but I want you to put a complete program together! I think with a proper program your potential can be maxed out!
	www.crossfit.com

04-12-2007, 10:23 AM	#3
Triple Threat ... Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lost Posts: 9,474 Photos: 6	Great journal name, you'll get no objections from me. Just a couple of comments. Why the trap work on the off days? And if you want to cut out the PB&J, but are finding yourself already hungry, why not make it just a PB sandwich?

04-12-2007, 02:35 PM	#16
Fitgirl70 Give it to me Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Dallas Posts: 7,391 Blog Entries: 7 Photos: 4	Full body? Sir Arch will be proud
	All the glory to God! We have a baby on the way.

04-12-2007, 03:11 PM	#18
Bakerboy cat burglar Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: the city of champions Posts: 4,146 Photos: 3	Good luck.
	No strength within, no respect without - Kasmiri Proverb

04-12-2007, 03:24 PM	#19
Stewart20 I do it all for him Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: in my home gym Posts: 2,859 Photos: 2	April 12 Workout 1 2 min rest interval between exercises (gotta work on my conditioning) Squats 315 x 4 *sucks, but haven't done em in a while, gotta get my groove back DB Bench Press 105 x 12 Pullups BW x 12 Seated Overhead Press 195 x 6 DB Rows 105 x 12 5 minute break here--felt like I was gonna puke for some reason Dips BW+135 x 6 Seated DB Curls 65 x 6 Glute-Ham Raises BW x 10
	http://futuretrainer.blogspot.com/ --My new blog!!

04-12-2007, 03:44 PM	#20
AKIRA I am Rollo Tomassee.. Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Outside the box Posts: 7,765 Photos: 3	Each had 1 set, huh? Thats unique..!
	6' 209lbs (8/16) Bench 360 (11/29) Weighted Pullups 80lbs 3x3 (3/19) Squat 370 Deadlift after herniation 385lbs 3x3 (3/17) NASM certified 2/06 Journal

04-12-2007, 05:44 PM	#23
Archangel High Intensity Freak Elite Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Intensity Island Posts: 10,178 Photos: 4	I absolutly LOVE your routine my Friend!!! Sure, you get me into Powerlifting and now your doing a variation of HIT, what the heck is going on here???
	"I can do ALL things through Christ, who strengthens me" - Philippians 4:13 "For NOTHING is impossible with GOD" - Luke 1:37