G's Log.

Big G · 07-02-2007, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

5 sets is a lot per execise for that rep range. OK. I'll do 3sets then and just add some different exercises to fill the remaining time. Sound better?

stop going to failure all the time. OK, although I am really surpised to read that. What happened to increasing intensity with partial reps, forced reps, etc? That's all beyond-failure, right?

be more specific with rep ranges and loading. You mean specifically how many I did last workout, or...? See, I normally just pick a weight where I know I'll fail between 5&15. For example, I'll get 15 (set1) then fail on maybe 10 (2nd set), then fail on 5 (3rd set) then drop the weight for set four and get maybe 10 again (at failure) then maybe 5 on the last set.

just because your legs hurt that bad, doesn't mean it is a good thing. In fact, it is stupid as hell. Lower the volume and train more frequently. Really? OK. That sounds good to me. I can barely walk whenever I leave the gym after leg day and last weekend, for example, my calves seized up so badly (after a Friday workout) that I had to call-off on Monday because I couldn't move my feet up or down at all!

Ditch all wasted day.....Huh? You mean don't post anything on here if I didn't workout that day?

if you are short on time, go into the gym with a plan. I always go to the gym with a plan. The plan is always to do whichever workout is next on the list.

Use exercises that give you the biggest bang for your buck. I thought my workouts were providing good bang for my buck. That's why I asked for your help.

Bakerboy · 07-02-2007, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big G

But it takes damned-near an hour to do two bi-cep exercises, two tri-cep exercises and two forearm exercises.

If you are doing big compound lifts you don't need to do much if any isolation work for your arms.
You are thinking about bodyparts instead of movements.

Double D · 07-02-2007, 09:43 AM

Wasted day to P means something like an arm day.

DOMS · 07-02-2007, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bakerboy

If you are doing big compound lifts you don't need to do much if any isolation work for your arms.
You are thinking about bodyparts instead of movements.

All of that shouldn't take more than 12 minutes total.

Big G · 07-02-2007, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double D

Which in the long run is a waste of time. You would get more out of doing 2 back exercises, 2 chest exercises and maybe a few sets of curls.

Geez. I am confused. How would my triceps and forearms be getting a good workout by not doing any triceps and forearms exercises!?

Double D · 07-02-2007, 10:04 AM

Bench, Incline, OH press, Pushups, etc.....really hits your triceps

Pullups, Chins, Any rows, etc.....really hits your biceps

You could do a pull day and add in 3-4 sets of bicep curls at the end of it. Its not like you have to get rid of the curls all together.

Same goes for the triceps. Push day add in some tri work at the end.

Big G · 07-02-2007, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double D

Wasted day to P means something like an arm day.

OK. I'm seriously mind-boggled here.

I started doing leg-presses and my quads got bigger. I started doing bench presses and my chest got bigger. But if I do tri-cep pulldowns and wrist curls then that's a waste of time!? Why wouldn't they grow if I exercise them? They seem to be growing to me.

This is wierd. I must be missing some crucial information here. I've done a lot of reading over the past eight months. I can't believe I feel, and probably sound, like such a dumbfuck right now.

DOMS · 07-02-2007, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big G

Geez. I am confused. How would my triceps and forearms be getting a good workout by not doing any triceps and forearms exercises!?

You'd be working them "indirectly". I use that term loosely. When you do benching, for example, you require a lot from your triceps. Don't worry too much about isolation work (curls, extensions) at first. Just stick to the big compounds and your body will grow.

Big G · 07-02-2007, 10:12 AM

OK. I need a list of big compounds then.

I posted a thread a couple of days ago asking for good exercise books. There were lots of hits and lots of recommendations. I guess I just need to get on Amazon and buckle down for some major reading.

It's disappointing to realize I've basically been mislead all this time. I distinctly remember in Arnold's encyclopedia (for example) it says your forearms are a muscle just like any other and they need to be worked out too. He lists suitable exercises afterwards. So that's what I did.

This is all a little frustrating.

Double D · 07-02-2007, 10:18 AM

Legs
Squat Variants
Deadlift Variants
Good Mornings
Lunges

Chest
Bench
Incline
Decline
Pushups

Shoulders
OH Press
(Keep in mind working the chest also works the shoulders)

Back
Pullups/Chins
Row Variants

Triple Threat · 07-02-2007, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double D

Legs
Squat Variants
Deadlift Variants
Good Mornings
Lunges

Chest
Bench
Incline
Decline
Pushups

Shoulders
OH Press
(Keep in mind working the chest also works the shoulders)

Back
Pullups/Chins
Row Variants

Hey, that's my workout routine (except for the OH press).

Double D · 07-02-2007, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple Threat

Hey, that's my workout routine (except for the OH press).

Yeah it pretty much is.

Big G · 07-02-2007, 10:33 AM

DD - Thx.

I've read that there is a lot of argument as to which body parts to combine. I stuck shoulders and traps together becuase I like the pump I get off it (I just feel huge afterwards). I stuck back & obliques together becuase they're all in the same kind-of area. And I stuck chest and abs together for the same kind-of reason.

I don't mind doing away with my arm day if it's just a waste of time (that still sounds pretty wierd to me... but I trust y'all so steer me right) but can we have a look at my next planned workout, for example?

Chest & Abs. (Asumming it's still OK to do these together, of course).
I've been doing Chest incline BB press as the first exercise (I hear it's better than decline for mass-bldg, so I put it first) s/set with leg raises (for extra intensity, and also to save time). Is that combo still OK?

I do decline DB press (which is also on the Big Comound list) s/set decline sit-ups (so I don't have to get off the decline bench and, again, to save some time). Is that still OK?

I do DB flies last becuase I heard it's not much of a mass-bldr, but I've had some time left after 5sets of each of above (although now I guess I'll have loads of time left because i'm only supposed to do 3sets of each instead) and I figured it was another angle to hit my chest from.

Since the incline BB press and decline DB press are both on the Big Compund list (above) does my chest workout actually seem so bad? If so, how? And what should I do to change it?

I was planning to do Chest tonight, so any thoughts would be very very welcome.

Thanks everyone anyway for all your advice. I really do appreciate it.

Double D · 07-02-2007, 10:47 AM

Hum...why not just put exercises together like this:

Upper Vertical:
Pullups
Incline presses
Chins
Dips
Curls

Legs:
Squats
Deadlift
Lunges
Good mornings or glute ham raises
Calve work

Upper Horizontal:
Bench
DB Row
Weight pushups or Decline Press
Cable row or supine row
Skull Crushers

Loading:
Wks1-2:3x12 with a 60 second ri
Wks3-4:3x6-8 with a 90 second ri
Wks5-6:3x3-5 with a full recovery ri
Wk7

eload or take off

Big G · 07-02-2007, 11:01 AM

I guess I'm not wondering why not just put exercises together like this, but why put exercises together like this. When I ask people in the gym (even huge dudes) what they're working today they'll say Chest, Back or whatever. I've never had someone reply "Lats, Chest, Biceps and Triceps" as would be the case doing Pullups, Incline presses, Chins, Dips and Curls, wouldn't it?

Has the Group-By-Movement-Type (e.g. Vertical, Horizontal, etc) methodology been found to be considerably more successful for hypertrophy than a Group-By-Body-Part (e.g. Chest, Back, etc) methodology? And, if so, which rock has seemingly everyone in my gym been hiding under!? Joking (but genuinely interested).

Double D · 07-02-2007, 11:17 AM

Think of it as movements. Your joints and muscles move one way so you train all of them in that motion. And then the next day its a totally different motion. Not to mention doing things this way is the easiest way to keep from overtraining, imo. I have done bodypart splits, but I will tell you I have never been as strong as I am now with the upper lower split. I actually do this:

Mon-Upper
Tues-Lower
Fri-Total

Big G · 07-02-2007, 11:36 AM

Wait a minute. That's split by bodypart then, right? What happened to all the Upper Vertical and Upper Horizontal separation? Or, are you doing all of that on Monday and Friday?

Isn't this all just a matter of personal preference? Everyone seems to have a different opinion.

Double D · 07-02-2007, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big G

Wait a minute. That's split by bodypart then, right? What happened to all the Upper Vertical and Upper Horizontal separation? Or, are you doing all of that on Monday and Friday?

Isn't this all just a matter of personal preference? Everyone seems to have a different opinion.

Depends on who you ask. I am a certified training, P funk is a certified trainer. And I would like to say hes one of the smartest damn guys I have ever talked to! Realize this: There are tons of big guys in this world. But to get there they may have done more damage to themselves than they shouldve. Things like muscle imbalances.....which effect posture and can actually lead to things like diseases! They put uneeded stresses on the human body that dont need to be there. A good based program of movements and not muscles in my honest opinion is the best way to go! Atleast starting out anyways until you get to learn your body.

Big G · 07-02-2007, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double D

A good based program of movements and not muscles in my honest opinion is the best way to go!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double D

I actually do this:

Mon-Upper
Tues-Lower
Fri-Total

So "Upper" would be:

Upper Vertical:
Pullups
Incline presses
Chins
Dips
Curls

AND

Upper Horizontal:
Bench
DB Row
Weight pushups or Decline Press
Cable row or supine row
Skull Crushers

?????

Double D · 07-02-2007, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big G

Haha....good point. Like I have said knowing your body and how it works in the best way to go. I think I may have said to much and not stayed basic enough. Sorry about that. Just ask around a bit more. I dont deny stewart's success hes a big guy and has had great success. His training is a bit suspect at times because he changes it up so much, but hes a big guy so its tough to argue it. However keep in mind just because someone is big doesnt mean they are doing everything right (I dont mean stew on this, just big guys in general).

Double D · 07-02-2007, 11:58 AM

A simple upper can go like this:

Push horizontal-Bench
Pull Vertical-Pullups
Push Vertical-Dips
Pull Horizontal-DB Rows

Aux work-Biceps, triceps, etc....(normally 3 sets of X amount of reps)

Big G · 07-02-2007, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double D

Just ask around a bit more.

Thanks. It's all much clearer now.

Big G · 07-03-2007, 07:58 AM

SUNDAY

Meal 1 - 10:45am (missed eggs. added to bottom of list)
Meal 2 - 2:00pm
Snack - 3:30pm
Meal 3 - 5:30pm
Meal 4 - 9:45pm
Meal 5 - 12:15pm
Meal 6 - sleeping.

Shed building today for approx 10hours. Almost finshed. Covered last wall with siding. Painting the door and installing shingles is all that remains. It looks awesome.

Big G · 07-03-2007, 07:59 AM

MONDAY

Meal 1 - 7:45am
Meal 2 - 11:00am-12:00am (busy. bite here, bite there)
Meal 3 - 3:40pm (late. time just flew by)
Meal 4 - 7:30pm (PWO shake)
Meal 5 - 9:30pm
Meal 6 - 12:30am

WORKOUT NOTES (Chest & Abs)
1.(s/set w/#2) Incline BB Press w/bar+60lb:15, w/bar+70lb:12½F,7F, w/bar+60lb:10F,9F. (waaaay better than ever!)

2.(s/set w/#1) Leg Raises w/hip push-up (NOT Knee Raises):20,20,20,20,20.
3.(s/set w/#4) Decline DB Press - w/50lb:12½F,10F,9F,7F,6F.
4.(s/set w/#3) Decline sit-ups (w/crunch on top):25,25,20F,11½F (4sets only. quads still hurt from Friday).
5.Fly Press (laying flat) w/30lb:15,10F,7½F, w/25lb:8½F,9½F.

PWO WEIGHT (after shower, sauna, pee): 172.1lb (going up!)

NOTES: Posted a whole bunch on ironmag forums today. Sought advice from familiar names. Conclusions... My workouts suck. I have no idea what I'm doing. And everything needs changed! Doh!

Went home and read Extreme Muscle Enhancement's ChapterII (Training). Learned going to failure all the time is dumb... As an ecto/endomorph(80/20) I should stay away from cardio (QUOTE: "Cardio is a bad idea for an ectomorph with weak legs that wants to build body mass"), plus...

Reps s/b in 6-8 range (no failing & no burn! so it says!).
Sets s/b 5-8 per body part
Recovery s/b 3-5 days

NOTE "s/b" = Should Be.

Additionally, there should be NO PAUSES or stalling at the top of the movement (unless it's to squeeze/contract). The sets s/b getting heavier with decreasing reps (or not). I should "keep the pace steady & go for broke on the last set"

Also, regarding reps:
Lrg body parts (e.g. Chest, Shoulders & Ham Strings) respond well to sets as low as 6.
Small body parts (Triceps, Biceps, Traps) respond well to sets comprised of around 8 reps.
Complex body parts (Back, Quads) like sets of approx 10reps.
Dense body parts (abs, calves) do best with 15 or more reps.

Emailed feedback, posts on this journal, posts from other threads and feedback from private messages (on ironmag forum) confirmed much of this. EVERYTHING I do needs revised.

Back to the drawing board! So much to learn! Still... hypertrophy is worth it!

07-02-2007, 09:43 AM	#63
Double D Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 9,901	Wasted day to P means something like an arm day.
	www.crossfit.com

07-02-2007, 10:04 AM	#66
Double D Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 9,901	Bench, Incline, OH press, Pushups, etc.....really hits your triceps Pullups, Chins, Any rows, etc.....really hits your biceps You could do a pull day and add in 3-4 sets of bicep curls at the end of it. Its not like you have to get rid of the curls all together. Same goes for the triceps. Push day add in some tri work at the end.
	www.crossfit.com

07-02-2007, 10:12 AM	#69
Big G Gettin' Diesel. Elite Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Cols,OH. It sucks. Posts: 1,211 Photos: 1	OK. I need a list of big compounds then. I posted a thread a couple of days ago asking for good exercise books. There were lots of hits and lots of recommendations. I guess I just need to get on Amazon and buckle down for some major reading. It's disappointing to realize I've basically been mislead all this time. I distinctly remember in Arnold's encyclopedia (for example) it says your forearms are a muscle just like any other and they need to be worked out too. He lists suitable exercises afterwards. So that's what I did. This is all a little frustrating.
	Goal...... DL:500lb, Sqt:400lb, Bnch:300lb Current.. DL:375lb, Sqt:335lb, Bnch:260lb Weight: 185lb (up 25lb), bf=15%ish Age:35 Training since 11/06 journal

07-02-2007, 10:18 AM	#70
Double D Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 9,901	Legs Squat Variants Deadlift Variants Good Mornings Lunges Chest Bench Incline Decline Pushups Shoulders OH Press (Keep in mind working the chest also works the shoulders) Back Pullups/Chins Row Variants
	www.crossfit.com

07-02-2007, 10:33 AM	#73
Big G Gettin' Diesel. Elite Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Cols,OH. It sucks. Posts: 1,211 Photos: 1	DD - Thx. I've read that there is a lot of argument as to which body parts to combine. I stuck shoulders and traps together becuase I like the pump I get off it (I just feel huge afterwards). I stuck back & obliques together becuase they're all in the same kind-of area. And I stuck chest and abs together for the same kind-of reason. I don't mind doing away with my arm day if it's just a waste of time (that still sounds pretty wierd to me... but I trust y'all so steer me right) but can we have a look at my next planned workout, for example? Chest & Abs. (Asumming it's still OK to do these together, of course). I've been doing Chest incline BB press as the first exercise (I hear it's better than decline for mass-bldg, so I put it first) s/set with leg raises (for extra intensity, and also to save time). Is that combo still OK? I do decline DB press (which is also on the Big Comound list) s/set decline sit-ups (so I don't have to get off the decline bench and, again, to save some time). Is that still OK? I do DB flies last becuase I heard it's not much of a mass-bldr, but I've had some time left after 5sets of each of above (although now I guess I'll have loads of time left because i'm only supposed to do 3sets of each instead) and I figured it was another angle to hit my chest from. Since the incline BB press and decline DB press are both on the Big Compund list (above) does my chest workout actually seem so bad? If so, how? And what should I do to change it? I was planning to do Chest tonight, so any thoughts would be very very welcome. Thanks everyone anyway for all your advice. I really do appreciate it.
	Goal...... DL:500lb, Sqt:400lb, Bnch:300lb Current.. DL:375lb, Sqt:335lb, Bnch:260lb Weight: 185lb (up 25lb), bf=15%ish Age:35 Training since 11/06 journal

07-02-2007, 10:47 AM	#74
Double D Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 9,901	Hum...why not just put exercises together like this: Upper Vertical: Pullups Incline presses Chins Dips Curls Legs: Squats Deadlift Lunges Good mornings or glute ham raises Calve work Upper Horizontal: Bench DB Row Weight pushups or Decline Press Cable row or supine row Skull Crushers Loading: Wks1-2:3x12 with a 60 second ri Wks3-4:3x6-8 with a 90 second ri Wks5-6:3x3-5 with a full recovery ri Wk7eload or take off
	www.crossfit.com

07-02-2007, 11:01 AM	#75
Big G Gettin' Diesel. Elite Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Cols,OH. It sucks. Posts: 1,211 Photos: 1	I guess I'm not wondering why not just put exercises together like this, but why put exercises together like this. When I ask people in the gym (even huge dudes) what they're working today they'll say Chest, Back or whatever. I've never had someone reply "Lats, Chest, Biceps and Triceps" as would be the case doing Pullups, Incline presses, Chins, Dips and Curls, wouldn't it? Has the Group-By-Movement-Type (e.g. Vertical, Horizontal, etc) methodology been found to be considerably more successful for hypertrophy than a Group-By-Body-Part (e.g. Chest, Back, etc) methodology? And, if so, which rock has seemingly everyone in my gym been hiding under!? Joking (but genuinely interested).
	Goal...... DL:500lb, Sqt:400lb, Bnch:300lb Current.. DL:375lb, Sqt:335lb, Bnch:260lb Weight: 185lb (up 25lb), bf=15%ish Age:35 Training since 11/06 journal

07-02-2007, 11:17 AM	#76
Double D Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 9,901	Think of it as movements. Your joints and muscles move one way so you train all of them in that motion. And then the next day its a totally different motion. Not to mention doing things this way is the easiest way to keep from overtraining, imo. I have done bodypart splits, but I will tell you I have never been as strong as I am now with the upper lower split. I actually do this: Mon-Upper Tues-Lower Fri-Total
	www.crossfit.com

07-02-2007, 11:36 AM	#77
Big G Gettin' Diesel. Elite Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Cols,OH. It sucks. Posts: 1,211 Photos: 1	Wait a minute. That's split by bodypart then, right? What happened to all the Upper Vertical and Upper Horizontal separation? Or, are you doing all of that on Monday and Friday? Isn't this all just a matter of personal preference? Everyone seems to have a different opinion.
	Goal...... DL:500lb, Sqt:400lb, Bnch:300lb Current.. DL:375lb, Sqt:335lb, Bnch:260lb Weight: 185lb (up 25lb), bf=15%ish Age:35 Training since 11/06 journal

07-02-2007, 11:58 AM	#81
Double D Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 9,901	A simple upper can go like this: Push horizontal-Bench Pull Vertical-Pullups Push Vertical-Dips Pull Horizontal-DB Rows Aux work-Biceps, triceps, etc....(normally 3 sets of X amount of reps)
	www.crossfit.com

07-03-2007, 07:58 AM	#83
Big G Gettin' Diesel. Elite Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Cols,OH. It sucks. Posts: 1,211 Photos: 1	6/31/07 SUNDAY Meal 1 - 10:45am (missed eggs. added to bottom of list) Meal 2 - 2:00pm Snack - 3:30pm Meal 3 - 5:30pm Meal 4 - 9:45pm Meal 5 - 12:15pm Meal 6 - sleeping. Shed building today for approx 10hours. Almost finshed. Covered last wall with siding. Painting the door and installing shingles is all that remains. It looks awesome.
	Goal...... DL:500lb, Sqt:400lb, Bnch:300lb Current.. DL:375lb, Sqt:335lb, Bnch:260lb Weight: 185lb (up 25lb), bf=15%ish Age:35 Training since 11/06 journal

07-03-2007, 07:59 AM	#84
Big G Gettin' Diesel. Elite Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Cols,OH. It sucks. Posts: 1,211 Photos: 1	7/1/07 MONDAY Meal 1 - 7:45am Meal 2 - 11:00am-12:00am (busy. bite here, bite there) Meal 3 - 3:40pm (late. time just flew by) Meal 4 - 7:30pm (PWO shake) Meal 5 - 9:30pm Meal 6 - 12:30am WORKOUT NOTES (Chest & Abs) 1.(s/set w/#2) Incline BB Press w/bar+60lb:15, w/bar+70lb:12½F,7F, w/bar+60lb:10F,9F. (waaaay better than ever!) 2.(s/set w/#1) Leg Raises w/hip push-up (NOT Knee Raises):20,20,20,20,20. 3.(s/set w/#4) Decline DB Press - w/50lb:12½F,10F,9F,7F,6F. 4.(s/set w/#3) Decline sit-ups (w/crunch on top):25,25,20F,11½F (4sets only. quads still hurt from Friday). 5.Fly Press (laying flat) w/30lb:15,10F,7½F, w/25lb:8½F,9½F. PWO WEIGHT (after shower, sauna, pee): 172.1lb (going up!) NOTES: Posted a whole bunch on ironmag forums today. Sought advice from familiar names. Conclusions... My workouts suck. I have no idea what I'm doing. And everything needs changed! Doh! Went home and read Extreme Muscle Enhancement's ChapterII (Training). Learned going to failure all the time is dumb... As an ecto/endomorph(80/20) I should stay away from cardio (QUOTE: "Cardio is a bad idea for an ectomorph with weak legs that wants to build body mass"), plus... Reps s/b in 6-8 range (no failing & no burn! so it says!). Sets s/b 5-8 per body part Recovery s/b 3-5 days NOTE "s/b" = Should Be. Additionally, there should be NO PAUSES or stalling at the top of the movement (unless it's to squeeze/contract). The sets s/b getting heavier with decreasing reps (or not). I should "keep the pace steady & go for broke on the last set" Also, regarding reps: Lrg body parts (e.g. Chest, Shoulders & Ham Strings) respond well to sets as low as 6. Small body parts (Triceps, Biceps, Traps) respond well to sets comprised of around 8 reps. Complex body parts (Back, Quads) like sets of approx 10reps. Dense body parts (abs, calves) do best with 15 or more reps. Emailed feedback, posts on this journal, posts from other threads and feedback from private messages (on ironmag forum) confirmed much of this. EVERYTHING I do needs revised. Back to the drawing board! So much to learn! Still... hypertrophy is worth it!
	Goal...... DL:500lb, Sqt:400lb, Bnch:300lb Current.. DL:375lb, Sqt:335lb, Bnch:260lb Weight: 185lb (up 25lb), bf=15%ish Age:35 Training since 11/06 journal