free our health care now

min0 lee · 06-30-2009, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALBOB

And I worked damn hard to EARN that so you can go fuck yourself with your righteous indignation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALBOB

And you're another one who can go fuck yourself. It's isn't PROVIDED, it was EARNED.

Why waste a valuble opportunity Albob, can't they just go fuck each other?

**dg806** · 06-30-2009, 10:20 AM

I think the main thing is this..........It's bad now and getting worse as far as expenses goes for the average person. The obama plan is unknown and that is what scares everyone. Is everyone willing to take the chance that things get double worse when this thing passes? I would like someone to explain to me how we can cover every illegal and everyone else right now that currently has no insurance (remember the liberals say that most americans don't have insurnce) without costing us more via premiums or tax increases. I don't think anyone can.

min0 lee · 06-30-2009, 10:26 AM

Our plan was horrible, having 4 kids.

My hospital bills were astronomical, thank god we now have better coverage.

**Dale Mabry** · 06-30-2009, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dg806

I think the main thing is this..........It's bad now and getting worse as far as expenses goes for the average person. The obama plan is unknown and that is what scares everyone. Is everyone willing to take the chance that things get double worse when this thing passes? I would like someone to explain to me how we can cover every illegal and everyone else right now that currently has no insurance (remember the liberals say that most americans don't have insurnce) without costing us more via premiums or tax increases. I don't think anyone can.

That's my thing, I agree that it will be difficult to figrue this out, but it needs to be figured out, and soon. Do I believe this thing is going to get passed any time soon? Nope, we can't afford it right now, but that doesn't mean we can't work towards it ASAP. The same thing is going on with alternative fuels, we can't keep putting it off, we need to get away from our dependence on the middle east. I find it hard to believe that we can make it to the moon, but we can't fix health care. There are some smart mofos in this country. Unfortunately, very few smart people in politics, not to mention the pay offs from industry and such to prevent it from happening.

maniclion · 06-30-2009, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALBOB

And you're another one who can go fuck yourself. It's isn't PROVIDED, it was EARNED.

What about the rest of us doing our petty chores in the world to make the whole machine keep churning? Shouldn't we be able to earn more than massive debt because we can't afford the inevitable? We all get sick or have accidents right?

And lest you forget I was in the military I know about the earning of medical care, I know that many view the VA as a last resort to civilian medicine, but at least they have something to fall back on when the bills start to stack up. I think every working American and their family should have a similar safety net.

And for someone with so little faith in the government you sure did spend a lot of time in the service of them and gambling on their ability to fund you through old age......

**Prince** · 06-30-2009, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALBOB

And I worked damn hard to EARN that so you can go fuck yourself with your righteous indignation.

so just because you had a military career you have special rights that civilians don't? many people bust their asses for 30 years in this country and pay their taxes and get no "lifetime health care", why are you special?

**Prince** · 06-30-2009, 02:56 PM

ALBOB,

My dad is 66 years old, he has worked since he was 16 years old (full time since 18 without a break), he spent 4 years in the US Airforce, that is 50 year of paying taxes, he spent 25 years as a FIREMAN, HE SAVED MANY LIVES PULLING PEOPLE OUT OF FIRES, DID YOU? and you know what he gets now...$700 month from Social Security, so he still has to work full time at the age of 66, not just for money to live, but also for medical benefits, he can't use Medicaid because he works full time and has medical coverage. He wants to retire next year at 67 but does not see how he will be able to live, so I am sure he will be working full time until at least 70. On top of that he has chronic bronchitis from spending 25 years fighting fires and this year he was diagnosed with skin cancer, he has already had 4 operations to remove it. BUT he still works full time and does not ask for any handouts.

EDIT: he has not collected any SS yet, he would have to quit his day job, if he quits his day job he will get the $700/month from SS.

min0 lee · 06-30-2009, 03:09 PM

They don't provide pensions for firefighteers in Denver?

At 66 he is lucky to have a job nowadays, years ago it was a little easier but most of the jobs a senior can do went overseas.

maniclion · 06-30-2009, 03:14 PM

There's been a trend lately of laying off people who are a few years away from retirement which I think is very despicable or making changes in the company that make it nearly impossible to remain for those close to retirement. My GF's work did something like that, she's in a union and senior members had the most lucrative shifts but then they closed the Restaurant where they were and now they have to start at the beginning to wait for someone to quit, get fired or die to get better positions again......some have had reductions of 60% of the income they had been making......

**Prince** · 06-30-2009, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by min0 lee

They don't provide pensions for firefighters in Denver?

At 66 he is lucky to get a have nowadays, years ago it was a little easier but most of the jobs a senior can do went overseas.

yes, but his "pension" was money that was put away in an account managed by an investor that worked for his fire dept, once he retired he was given control of it, he left it with the same investor and was pretty conservative with it, but unfortunately he still lost quite a bit after the market crashed as most seniors did the past few years, so he does not draw much out of it...he is hoping that it will regain value in a few years so he can start drawing a decent amount of money from it, but it would only be about $30k per year AND it is taxed, not clear. However, I think the cancer will take him before he ever gets a chance to retire.

min0 lee · 06-30-2009, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prince

yes, but his "pension" was money that was put away in an account managed by an investor that worked for his fire dept, once he retired he was given control of it, he left it with the same investor and was pretty conservative with it, but unfortunately he still lost quite a bit after the market crashed as most seniors did the past few years, so he does not draw much out of it...he is hoping that it will regain value in a few years so he can start drawing a decent amount of money from it, but it would only be about $30k per year AND it is taxed, not clear. However, I think the cancer will take him before he ever gets a chance to retire.

That really sucks, a lot of people don't realize how much the stock market screwed seniors out of their money.

Taxed out of his money he earned unreal.
This is the reason many New yorkers in the past and present moved to the swamp...er I meant Florida. No state tax!

**Prince** · 06-30-2009, 03:23 PM

yup, and pensions are a thing of the past for most.

min0 lee · 06-30-2009, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prince

yup, and pensions are a thing of the past for most.

I worked at Motorola for 21 years...all I got was my 401k and half of it is gone...what little there was.

Now that we work for the State and City we can look forward to something when we retire.

20 years and nothing to show for it.

**Prince** · 06-30-2009, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by min0 lee

At 66 he is lucky to have a job nowadays, years ago it was a little easier but most of the jobs a senior can do went overseas.

he works for Douglas County public schools making $15/hour helping the special ed kids, he has been doing this for almost 10 years, he gets summers off so he uses that time to work another full time job until school starts back up.

lola1182 · 06-30-2009, 03:55 PM

done and done. our healthcare needs help..

min0 lee · 06-30-2009, 04:52 PM

Health-Care Market Characterized By Consolidation, Not Competition

Quote:

But the notion that most American consumers enjoy anything like a competitive marketplace for health care is flatly false. And a study issued last month by a pro-reform group makes that strikingly clear.

The report, released by Health Care for America Now (HCAN), uses data compiled by the American Medical Association to show that 94 percent of the country's insurance markets are defined as "highly concentrated," according to Justice Department guidelines. Predictably, that's led to skyrocketing costs for patients, and monster profits for the big health insurers. Premiums have gone up over the past six years by more than 87 percent, on average, while profits at ten of the largest publicly traded health insurance companies rose 428 percent from 2000 to 2007.

ALBOB · 06-30-2009, 07:27 PM

First and foremost to Dale and Maniclion, I'm sorry. As you can probably tell that's a very touchy subject for me, but that doesn't excuse me acting like an ass. Please accept my appology.

To the OP, it's true I've never dealt with the issues of public healthcare and/or insurance for myself. But that's not to say I'm completely ignorant on the subject. I know very well how messed up the system is, having had to deal with it for over a decade with my father who fought a losing battle with cancer.

Look, I know the system is broken. It absolutely SUCKS. But, as I said before, I don't think having the government run it is the answer. When the government takes over costs go through the roof and quality goes through the floor.

Should the government get involved? Sure, I don't have a problem with that. But I absolutely HATE the idea of the government running ANYTHING that involves healthcare.

And I'm kind of surprised at the number of people on here that like the idea and WHO those people are. Tell me, how has the government handled the bodybuilding supplement industry? And they're not even running it. Is that what you want them to do with healthecare?

IronAddict · 06-30-2009, 07:54 PM

Ohhh shit, now, I am a retired Marine. I didn't do 20 years, but I was retired due to my injuries acquired in combat in Iraq in 1991, but my injuries were critical, a 100% retired disability rating I have incurred. But I will never seek medical advice from the VA.

I, and eveyrone reading this message should realize this is not what you want, we are Americans, we are humans, we deserve the same medical treatment our elected officials have, why is this so hard to fathom ?

bandaidwoman · 06-30-2009, 08:00 PM

Perhaps you should look at the physicians for national health insurance web site.

Doctors, who have the most to gain or lose by this have put some thought into it without all the rhetoric.

As a whole, we are a conservative group so when a very conservative group starts to advocate something that seems non-conservative it may mean we have looked at this issue upside and down and come to the conclusion that this will be best, in the end for most people.

Physicians for a National Health Program | Single Payer Resources

Quote:

Single-payer national health insurance is a system in which a single public or quasi-public agency organizes health financing, but delivery of care remains largely private.

...... Private insurers necessarily waste health dollars on things that have nothing to do with care: overhead, underwriting, billing, sales and marketing departments as well as huge profits and exorbitant executive pay. Doctors and hospitals must maintain costly administrative staffs to deal with the bureaucracy. Combined, this needless administration consumes one-third (31 percent) of Americans’ health dollars.

...etc etc

once again,not a single doctor on this website advocates socialized medicine, hence the bold type. We are not going to be government employees like the docs in the VA system.

And remember, a majority of doctors are in favor of this as many recent polls show especially JAMA and the annals of medicine OpEdNews » Survey: Support for national health insurance grows among physicians. I can gaurantee you that these majority are not democrats or liberals , majority docs are still republicans yet a majority advocates a single health insurance system.

by the way , the link I provide surveyed showed 55% of general surgeons advocated a national health insurance system, and they are some of the most politcally conservative group I know.

bandaidwoman · 06-30-2009, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALBOB

But I absolutely HATE the idea of the government running ANYTHING that involves healthcare.

The FDA is such an entitiy, it is imperfect , but without it we would be selling contaminated copy cat inferior prescription medicines and have melamine tainted foods and contaminated heparin intravenous drugs that come out of a country like China which has taken a libertarian hands off approach to the regulation of foods and drugs.

Also, without federal tight regulation of medical licenses anyone can hang up a shingle and claim to be a doctor and do surgery as they do in some countries without ever having to go to medical school, residency or board certification.

IronAddict · 06-30-2009, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bandaidwoman

Perhaps you should look at the physicians for national health insurance web site, doctors, who have the most to gain or lose by this have put some thought into it without all the rhetoric. As a whole we are a conservative group so when a very conservative group starts to advocate something that seems non-conservative it may mean we have looked at this issue upside and down and come to the conclusion that this will be best, in the end for most people.

Physicians for a National Health Program | Single Payer Resources

once again,not a single doctor on this website advocates socialized medicine, hence the bold type. And remember, a majority of doctors are in favor of this as many recent polls show especially JAMA. I can gaurantee you that these majority are not democrats, majority docs are still republicans yet a majority advocates a single health insurance system.

Yes maam, this is all a game, and I for one am tired of playing this game. I've played by the rules for too many years now, a change must come. Isn't that what we elected Obama for ?

Money is the issue, money is the key.

bandaidwoman · 06-30-2009, 08:36 PM

I am afraid there may not be much change. The insurance companies have such a rich and powerful lobby. Do the 45 million uninsured or the underinsured have a lobby? No.

Realistically, a plan that does away with private health insurance is going to face intense opposition from the insurance and the for-profit health care industries. A plan that creates a huge government program without private sector involvement also is not going to be popular up on capital hill.

In the end, my prediction is that Obama is currently playing a brilliant game of poker, he is going to convince the insurance lobby that he will forge ahead with some public option that he will finally get private insurance to recind or "reform" some of their abusive practices like dropping a cancer patient newly diagnosed with cancer or financially devastating penalties for previous conditions etc etc. In the end, we will hopefully achieve some insurance reform that is much needed in this country. That is my prediction.

.

maniclion · 06-30-2009, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALBOB

Should the government get involved? Sure, I don't have a problem with that. But I absolutely HATE the idea of the government running ANYTHING that involves healthcare.

And I'm kind of surprised at the number of people on here that like the idea and WHO those people are. Tell me, how has the government handled the bodybuilding supplement industry? And they're not even running it. Is that what you want them to do with healthecare?

I favor gov. supported healthcare, not gov. run nor managed health care. I've been the recipient of Gov. Medical service and I know the differences.

IronAddict · 06-30-2009, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bandaidwoman

I am afraid there may not be much change. The insurance companies have such a rich and powerful lobby. Do the 45 million uninsured or the underinsured have a lobby? No.

Realistically, a plan that does away with private health insurance is going to face intense opposition from the insurance and the for-profit health care industries. A plan that creates a huge government program without private sector involvement also is not going to be popular up on capital hill.

In the end, my prediction is that Obama is currently playing a brilliant game of poker, he is going to convince the insurance lobby that he will forge ahead with some public option that he will finally get private insurance to recind or "reform" some of their abusive practices like dropping a cancer patient newly diagnosed with cancer or financially devastating penalties for previous conditions etc etc. In the end, we will hopefully achieve some insurance reform that is much needed in this country. That is my prediction.

.

I just feel smarter reading your posts!

Agreed. We've to make a change, this is the one constant !

In my life, I've never thought a black man as pres.

That has transpired..

why stop there ?

National health care...we have models...?

**Dale Mabry** · 07-01-2009, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALBOB

First and foremost to Dale and Maniclion, I'm sorry. As you can probably tell that's a very touchy subject for me, but that doesn't excuse me acting like an ass. Please accept my appology.

To the OP, it's true I've never dealt with the issues of public healthcare and/or insurance for myself. But that's not to say I'm completely ignorant on the subject. I know very well how messed up the system is, having had to deal with it for over a decade with my father who fought a losing battle with cancer.

Look, I know the system is broken. It absolutely SUCKS. But, as I said before, I don't think having the government run it is the answer. When the government takes over costs go through the roof and quality goes through the floor.

Should the government get involved? Sure, I don't have a problem with that. But I absolutely HATE the idea of the government running ANYTHING that involves healthcare.

And I'm kind of surprised at the number of people on here that like the idea and WHO those people are. Tell me, how has the government handled the bodybuilding supplement industry? And they're not even running it. Is that what you want them to do with healthecare?

Good, then I rescind my previous apology and commence shunning you.

ALBOB · 07-01-2009, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bandaidwoman

The FDA is such an entitiy, it is imperfect , but without it we would be selling contaminated copy cat inferior prescription medicines and have melamine tainted foods and contaminated heparin intravenous drugs that come out of a country like China which has taken a libertarian hands off approach to the regulation of foods and drugs.

Also, without federal tight regulation of medical licenses anyone can hang up a shingle and claim to be a doctor and do surgery as they do in some countries without ever having to go to medical school, residency or board certification.

I PARTLY disagree. The FDA does do a good job of protecting us from dangerous/inferior producs, granted. But they're also a roadblock to progress. How many vital drugs have gone decades sitting on the FDA shelf waiting for approval while people who desperately needed those drugs died?

It's ironic that you cite the FDA because they're a very good illustration of my exact point, who's going to monitor the monitor? When the government takes over, who watches them? The FDA is completely autonomous, they can do whatever they please and there's not a damn thing anyone can do about it. The EPA is another perfect example of this.

ALBOB · 07-01-2009, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maniclion

I favor gov. supported healthcare, not gov. run nor managed health care. I've been the recipient of Gov. Medical service and I know the differences.

Now we're starting to move toward the center and that's definitely something I can support.

If the government moves in and helps those that can't help themselves, I don't have a problem with that. But don't mess with those that CAN help themselves.

ALBOB · 07-01-2009, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

Good, then I rescind my previous apology and commence shunning you.

I'm not seeing this as a negative.

bandaidwoman · 07-01-2009, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALBOB

I PARTLY disagree. The FDA does do a good job of protecting us from dangerous/inferior producs, granted. But they're also a roadblock to progress. How many vital drugs have gone decades sitting on the FDA shelf waiting for approval while people who desperately needed those drugs died?

It's ironic that you cite the FDA because they're a very good illustration of my exact point, who's going to monitor the monitor? When the government takes over, who watches them? The FDA is completely autonomous, they can do whatever they please and there's not a damn thing anyone can do about it. The EPA is another perfect example of this.

you asked for an example of a government run operation that wasn't completly screwed up. In a completely libertarian philosophy there would be no FDA, look at china. That's all.

Yes, the FDA is more conservative than its europen counterpart, but that is due in part to the fear of approving problematic drugs in such a toxic litiginous atmosphere against drug companies here vs europe and may prevent useful drugs from reaching the market at a much more expedient matter. In europe , where the drug companies have a much freer reign, there have been numerous drugs that were freely available for prescription 5 years or earlier and post market analysis showed that they were highly dangerous. (ximelagatran, a novel blood thinner comes to mind which caused fulminant liver failure, already being widely used in europe), At the same time, europeans benefitted early from some useful drugs.

In europe, they see the novel new drugs earlier, but the general population play a greater part in being human guinea pigs.

bandaidwoman · 07-01-2009, 06:48 PM

In addition, the general population has no idea what a failure the privatized medicare and medicaid plans are. Not a single doc in my county takes those plans, not because they don't pay us, in fact they pay us more, but the beaurocracy was so atrocious, we collectively decided that dealing with the lesser paying government plan was far better. So I know how far worse things can be when private corporations try to run a government service.

http://www.citizen.org/documents/pporeportfinal.pdf

Medicare Advantage Windfall Payments

Quote:

When lawmakers added private plans to Medicare, they claimed that such plans would save money and provide better care. Proponents of these plans, now called “Medicare Advantage” plans, argued that because they would foster “coordination of care” and inject the “efficiency of the private market” into Medicare, these plans would result in savings for taxpayers and better health care for beneficiaries. The truth is, these private plans have never saved money. In fact, private Medicare Advantage plans now cost billions of dollars more than traditional Medicare—even though they may do little or no coordination of care.

The upshot, the privatized industry is less efficient and more costly than basic government run medicare and medicaid.

06-30-2009, 10:20 AM	#122
dg806 Guardian of The Homeland Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Charlotte NC Posts: 18,196	I think the main thing is this..........It's bad now and getting worse as far as expenses goes for the average person. The obama plan is unknown and that is what scares everyone. Is everyone willing to take the chance that things get double worse when this thing passes? I would like someone to explain to me how we can cover every illegal and everyone else right now that currently has no insurance (remember the liberals say that most americans don't have insurnce) without costing us more via premiums or tax increases. I don't think anyone can. 1-Andro Rx Pro-hormone

06-30-2009, 10:26 AM	#123
min0 lee Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: The Bronx, NYC Posts: 38,792 Photos: 542	Our plan was horrible, having 4 kids. My hospital bills were astronomical, thank god we now have better coverage. How To Do The Perfect Bench Press Rep Bodybuilding and Lifting Weights, the Difference ironmagazine-frapper

06-30-2009, 02:56 PM	#127
Prince IronMagLabs Owner Administrator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 37,393 Photos: 356	ALBOB, My dad is 66 years old, he has worked since he was 16 years old (full time since 18 without a break), he spent 4 years in the US Airforce, that is 50 year of paying taxes, he spent 25 years as a FIREMAN, HE SAVED MANY LIVES PULLING PEOPLE OUT OF FIRES, DID YOU? and you know what he gets now...$700 month from Social Security, so he still has to work full time at the age of 66, not just for money to live, but also for medical benefits, he can't use Medicaid because he works full time and has medical coverage. He wants to retire next year at 67 but does not see how he will be able to live, so I am sure he will be working full time until at least 70. On top of that he has chronic bronchitis from spending 25 years fighting fires and this year he was diagnosed with skin cancer, he has already had 4 operations to remove it. BUT he still works full time and does not ask for any handouts. EDIT: he has not collected any SS yet, he would have to quit his day job, if he quits his day job he will get the $700/month from SS. IronMagLabs 1-ANDRO Rx Pro-Hormone - BUY 2 GET 1 FREE SPECIAL! BOARD SPONSORS: MassNutrition.com - Discount Supplement Superstore AlltheWhey.com - Bulk Protein Powders CEMProducts.com - Research Chemicals & Supplements MusclesProd.com - Steroids, Bodybuilding, Fitness & Training Blog. Maximizer.com - Maximizer Strength for Maximum Performance Befriend on Myspace Follow on Twitter

06-30-2009, 03:09 PM	#128
min0 lee Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: The Bronx, NYC Posts: 38,792 Photos: 542	They don't provide pensions for firefighteers in Denver? At 66 he is lucky to have a job nowadays, years ago it was a little easier but most of the jobs a senior can do went overseas. How To Do The Perfect Bench Press Rep Bodybuilding and Lifting Weights, the Difference ironmagazine-frapper

06-30-2009, 03:14 PM	#129
maniclion Cartographer of the Mind Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Mens Incognita Posts: 20,430 Photos: 10	There's been a trend lately of laying off people who are a few years away from retirement which I think is very despicable or making changes in the company that make it nearly impossible to remain for those close to retirement. My GF's work did something like that, she's in a union and senior members had the most lucrative shifts but then they closed the Restaurant where they were and now they have to start at the beginning to wait for someone to quit, get fired or die to get better positions again......some have had reductions of 60% of the income they had been making...... "We are like tenant farmers chopping down the fence around our house for fuel when we should be using Natures inexhaustible sources of energy — sun, wind and tide. ... I'd put my money on the sun and solar energy. What a source of power! I hope we don't have to wait until oil and coal run out before we tackle that." Thomas Edison: In conversation with Henry Ford and Harvey Firestone

06-30-2009, 03:23 PM	#132
Prince IronMagLabs Owner Administrator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 37,393 Photos: 356	yup, and pensions are a thing of the past for most. IronMagLabs 1-ANDRO Rx Pro-Hormone - BUY 2 GET 1 FREE SPECIAL! BOARD SPONSORS: MassNutrition.com - Discount Supplement Superstore AlltheWhey.com - Bulk Protein Powders CEMProducts.com - Research Chemicals & Supplements MusclesProd.com - Steroids, Bodybuilding, Fitness & Training Blog. Maximizer.com - Maximizer Strength for Maximum Performance Befriend on Myspace Follow on Twitter

06-30-2009, 03:55 PM	#135
lola1182 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: CA Posts: 200	done and done. our healthcare needs help..

06-30-2009, 07:27 PM	#137
ALBOB IDIOT SAVANT Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: An alternate reality. Posts: 10,385	First and foremost to Dale and Maniclion, I'm sorry. As you can probably tell that's a very touchy subject for me, but that doesn't excuse me acting like an ass. Please accept my appology. To the OP, it's true I've never dealt with the issues of public healthcare and/or insurance for myself. But that's not to say I'm completely ignorant on the subject. I know very well how messed up the system is, having had to deal with it for over a decade with my father who fought a losing battle with cancer. Look, I know the system is broken. It absolutely SUCKS. But, as I said before, I don't think having the government run it is the answer. When the government takes over costs go through the roof and quality goes through the floor. Should the government get involved? Sure, I don't have a problem with that. But I absolutely HATE the idea of the government running ANYTHING that involves healthcare. And I'm kind of surprised at the number of people on here that like the idea and WHO those people are. Tell me, how has the government handled the bodybuilding supplement industry? And they're not even running it. Is that what you want them to do with healthecare? Rules? You mean we have RULES for that???

06-30-2009, 07:54 PM	#138
IronAddict YOU ME WE Elite Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: In my skin Posts: 2,801	Ohhh shit, now, I am a retired Marine. I didn't do 20 years, but I was retired due to my injuries acquired in combat in Iraq in 1991, but my injuries were critical, a 100% retired disability rating I have incurred. But I will never seek medical advice from the VA. I, and eveyrone reading this message should realize this is not what you want, we are Americans, we are humans, we deserve the same medical treatment our elected officials have, why is this so hard to fathom ? The journey of a thousand miles must begin with a single step.

06-30-2009, 08:36 PM	#142
bandaidwoman inadvertant tree hugger Elite Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 728 Photos: 4	I am afraid there may not be much change. The insurance companies have such a rich and powerful lobby. Do the 45 million uninsured or the underinsured have a lobby? No. Realistically, a plan that does away with private health insurance is going to face intense opposition from the insurance and the for-profit health care industries. A plan that creates a huge government program without private sector involvement also is not going to be popular up on capital hill. In the end, my prediction is that Obama is currently playing a brilliant game of poker, he is going to convince the insurance lobby that he will forge ahead with some public option that he will finally get private insurance to recind or "reform" some of their abusive practices like dropping a cancer patient newly diagnosed with cancer or financially devastating penalties for previous conditions etc etc. In the end, we will hopefully achieve some insurance reform that is much needed in this country. That is my prediction. . Official Race Member of the Crank Crushing Rednecks Eat more mud, mountain bike until you die! XX Feminine power

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