Poll: Great hopes for Obama fade to reality

min0 lee · 07-21-2009, 05:05 PM

He still has a solid approval rating, but doubts grow on scope of his agenda
The Associated Press
updated 4:03 p.m. ET, Tues., July 21, 2009

WASHINGTON - The hope and optimism that washed over the U.S. in the opening months of Barack Obama's presidency are giving way to harsh realities.

An Associated Press-GfK Poll shows that a majority of Americans are back to thinking that the country is headed in the wrong direction after a fleeting period in which more thought it was on the right track.
Obama still has a solid 55 percent approval rating — better than Bill Clinton and about even with George W. Bush six months into their presidencies — but there are growing doubts about whether he can succeed at some of the biggest items on his to-do list. And there is a growing sense that he is trying to tackle too much too soon.

The number of people who think Obama can improve the economy is down a sobering 19 percentage points from the euphoric days just before his inauguration. The same for expectations about creating jobs. Also down significantly: the share of people who think he can reduce the deficit, remove troops from Iraq and improve respect for the U.S. around the world, all slipping 15 points.

On overhauling health care, a signature issue for Obama, hopes for success are down a lesser 6 points.
Add it all up, and does it mean Obama has lost his mojo? Has yes-we-can morphed into maybe?

‘He's not Superman, right?’
"I think it's just reality," said Sandy Smith, a 48-year-old public relations worker. "He's not Superman, right?"
Indeed, it's not unusual for approval ratings to slide once presidents actually get to work. They're pulled down by things going on in the real world, by people who don't agree with the ways they're addressing problems, by criticism from political opponents.

In Obama's case, the problems he's confronting domestically and internationally are legion, and his ability to blame them on his predecessor is fading. Challenges still abound in Iraq and Afghanistan. Unemployment, at 7.6 percent in January, hit 9.5 percent in June and is expected to keep rising well into next year. Almost 4 percent of homeowners with mortgages are in foreclosure, and an additional 8 percent are at least a month behind on payments — the highest levels since the Great Depression of the 1930s.
The president is deep into the debate over how to overhaul the U.S. health care system, and people are nervous about how their own health insurance could be affected. Obama's critics are accusing him of conducting a risky "grand experiment" that will hurt the economy and could force millions to drop their current coverage.

It is all taking a toll on expectations. The number of people who think it is realistic to expect at least some noticeable improvement in the economy during Obama's first year in office dropped from 27 percent in January to 16 percent in the latest survey.

There's been slippage, as well, in how people view the president personally, although he is still well regarded. About two-thirds now think he understands the problems of ordinary Americans, down from 81 percent in January. Sixty-nine percent think he's a strong leader, off from 78 percent before the inauguration.

"He doesn't know enough about any of this," says Michelle Kelsey, a 37-year-old student, who gives Obama a three for leadership on a 10-point scale. But then again, Kelsey says, "Nobody could have done better."
"I just feel like people haven't given him enough time. It's going to take longer for the economy to come around."

It's not just Obama who is feeling the drag. Approval of Congress — already low — has gotten lower, slipping 6 percentage points to 32 percent.

Wrong direction
Overall, the number of people who think the country is going in the wrong direction hit 54 percent in the latest AP-GfK poll, up from 46 percent in June.

That is not necessarily surprising. In years past, the public has tended to be more pessimistic than optimistic about the country's future. Recent exceptions have been short-lived, at the start of the Iraq war, after the Sept. 11 attacks in 2001, after the capture of Saddam Hussein in Iraq and late in the Clinton administration.

Perhaps most troubling for Obama may be where he is losing ground. His approval rating was down 9 points among Americans overall but 20 percent among independents. Similarly, the increase in those who think the country is headed in the wrong direction came mostly from independents and Democrats.

Dissatisfaction among independents grew disproportionately on Obama's handling of a range of issues, including the economy, taxes, unemployment, the environment and more.
Independents are "the ones to watch," according to Professor Robert Shapiro, a Columbia University expert on public opinion. "The Republicans were more pessimistic from the outset. The Democrats are going to be more resistant to negative information."

Overall, Obama still can feel good about a 55 percent approval rating, Shapiro said, but "the fact that it is on the downswing is something to be concerned about. That's going to affect how members of Congress, and in particular people in his own party, may respond to him."

The AP-GfK Poll was conducted July 16-20 by GfK Roper Public Affairs & Media. It involved interviews on landlines and cell phones with 1,006 adults nationwide. The survey had a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 3.1 percentage points.

URL: Poll: Great hopes for Obama fade to reality - White House- msnbc.com

IronAddict · 07-21-2009, 06:04 PM

He cannot pass what the powers that be don't want him to pass( alah, Hillary Clinton, in the 90's). When do we get a vote on whether or not we want universal health care. Sadly, most Americans think this is health care to cover the whole universe, not the US.

**Dale Mabry** · 07-22-2009, 05:48 AM

I see as his approval numbers go down, the press is starting to turn on him. Yesterday on the news there was a story on how some dude got shitty treatment thru VA care and they were discussing how that mirrors what will happen if we go thru with his reform. It's funny watching the transition.

busyLivin · 07-22-2009, 08:04 AM

Obama's policies were NEVER as popular as he was. He is a pop-star, nothing more. People liked him, thought he was cool, but now are associating him with his far-left agenda. He's a tax & spend Democrat.. that's all. Like all pop-stars, the glamour fades. Hopefully a little accountability will follow.

What makes me sick is he knows this & is trying to push through legislation (Healthcare & Cap & Trade) people are turning against the more they hear about it. Whoever though Obama wasn't a socialist was wrong.

bio-chem · 07-22-2009, 01:48 PM

this is what happens with bush fatigue. now as long as the republicans are smart and put up good quality candidates we will have a real government again in 4 years. the reactionary, anti-bush, vote for every democrat we can regardless of if we like his policies or not needs to end.

I want a one party to control congress by a slight majority fighting against an executive of another party. The government that governs best, governs least.

maniclion · 07-22-2009, 04:49 PM

It's just like the 7 year itch except it's a 7 month twitch, the collective eye has a little twitch and the glossy eyed public who saw the man with an aura around him is now seeing him without the blur.......

IronAddict · 07-23-2009, 10:31 AM

Everything has to go through the House & the Senate. It's not as if he could pass anything he wanted. As long as the Reps. say NO, to everything he tries to accomplish, he will get this aura of being a failure. I believe, they really don't want to see him get credit for doing anything positive, especially not for a single payer health care reform.

Now, I understand he has a slight majority, but what does it say when all of a sudden two or three members of his own party jumps to the other side ? It says things are the way they're supposed to be, and that it's just an illusion that we have a say in matters.

I myself believe, anything is better than having an insurance Co. between you and your Dr.

But, it's business as usual in Washington as the claim goes.

busyLivin · 07-23-2009, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronAddict

As long as the Reps. say NO, to everything he tries to accomplish, he will get this aura of being a failure. I believe, they really don't want to see him get credit for doing anything positive, especially not for a single payer health care reform.

Now, I understand he has a slight majority

What?

Slight majority? The Republicans alone can stop NOTHING. You blame them all you want & deny the fact that even some democrats don't want any of this shit sandwich.

you have no idea what is included in the bill & you want it passed. that's insane.

Anything is better? My friend, you have no idea what you are talking about.

IronAddict · 07-23-2009, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by busyLivin

What?

Slight majority? The Republicans alone can stop NOTHING. You blame them all you want & deny the fact that even some democrats don't want any of this shit sandwich.

you have no idea what is included in the bill & you want it passed. that's insane.

Anything is better? My friend, you have no idea what you are talking about.

Yes, but I said after a few Dems jump ship !

I knew that was gonna draw your fire.

Yes, you have a pre existing condition, you can't get coverage.
You become Ill and need a certain procedure, and you get dropped by your Ins. Co. That is how the nut shell game works. Ins. Co's. between you and your Dr.

You're just against this because the Repubs. say so.

I really hope you don't become one of these people that really need health care.

bio-chem · 07-23-2009, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronAddict

Yes, but I said after a few Dems jump ship !

I knew that was gonna draw your fire.

Yes, you have a pre existing condition, you can't get coverage.
You become Ill and need a certain procedure, and you get dropped by your Ins. Co. That is how the nut shell game works. Ins. Co's. between you and your Dr.

You're just against this because the Repubs. say so.

I really hope you don't become one of these people that really need health care.

I will more than admit there are problems with health care. Insurance companies can be a problem. Having said that lets accept the fact that someone has to pay. Healthcare is very expensive and people need to recognize it. There is no such thing as affordable healthcare. That concept is a myth. People need to accept that.

This is like everyone saying we should all get a 180,000 dollar sports car, but we shouldn't have to pay 180,000 dollars to get it. Health care is not a universal right.

IronAddict · 07-23-2009, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bio-chem

I will more than admit there are problems with health care. Insurance companies can be a problem. Having said that lets accept the fact that someone has to pay. Healthcare is very expensive and people need to recognize it. There is no such thing as affordable healthcare. That concept is a myth. People need to accept that.

This is like everyone saying we should all get a 180,000 dollar sports car, but we shouldn't have to pay 180,000 dollars to get it. Health care is not a universal right.

That's more like it, it's a problem and I'm not saying I have the answer, or what Obama is suggesting is the final solution.

But, when you do nothing, nothing is what we can expect to be the outcome, that's all I'm saying.

busyLivin · 07-23-2009, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronAddict

That's more like it, it's a problem and I'm not saying I have the answer, or what Obama is suggesting is the final solution.

But, when you do nothing, nothing is what we can expect to be the outcome, that's all I'm saying.

I don't disagree with that at all. I just think the Dem's path is wrong, and Obama's "savings plan" is dishonest.

**Dale Mabry** · 07-23-2009, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bio-chem

This is like everyone saying we should all get a 180,000 dollar sports car, but we shouldn't have to pay 180,000 dollars to get it. Health care is not a universal right.

We would be more productive of a nation if it were.

IronAddict · 07-23-2009, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by busyLivin

I don't disagree with that at all. I just think the Dem's path is wrong, and Obama's "savings plan" is dishonest.

Busy, you may be right, and I may be wrong. But with all this bickering back and forth each side calling the other side wrong, leaves the American public as the big losers, and nothing gets resolved!

busyLivin · 07-23-2009, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronAddict

Busy, you may be right, and I may be wrong. But with all this bickering back and forth each side calling the other side wrong, leaves the American public as the big losers, and nothing gets resolved!

I disagree. If the government was a little more balanced maybe we could get something that worked. With the Dems controlling everything, they are trying to rush through something without anyone even reading it. Seriously.. 1000 pages? Bickering leads to concessions from both.

You really just want the Republicans & conservative democrats to step in line & rubber stamp whatever the dems come up with?

The issue I'm talking about is that Obama wants it out now to save face. He's more concerned with how it looks than anything. It's irresponsible, purely political, and (as you said) leaves the American public as the big losers.

Making healthcare an entitlement will change the country drastically. I don't think you appreciate the magnitude.

busyLivin · 07-23-2009, 12:38 PM

Grassley said he spoke with a Democratic House member last week who shared Obama’s bleak reaction during a private meeting to reports that some factions of House Democrats were lining up to stall or even take down the overhaul unless leaders made major changes.

“Let’s just lay everything on the table,” Grassley said. “A Democrat congressman last week told me after a conversation with the president that the president had trouble in the House of Representatives, and it wasn’t going to pass if there weren’t some changes made … and the president says, ‘You’re going to destroy my presidency.’”

IronAddict · 07-23-2009, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by busyLivin

I disagree. If the government was a little more balanced maybe we could get something that worked. With the Dems controlling everything, they are trying to rush through something without anyone even reading it. Seriously.. 1000 pages? Bickering leads to concessions from both.

You really just want the Republicans & conservative democrats to step in line & rubber stamp whatever the dems come up with?

The issue I'm talking about is that Obama wants it out now to save face. He's more concerned with how it looks than anything. It's irresponsible, purely political, and (as you said) leaves the American public as the big losers.

Making healthcare an entitlement will change the country drastically. I don't think you appreciate the magnitude.

Negative, you do realise that it was the last admin. that got everything rubber stamped as a go, right !

Yes, the country will change drastically. Just how it has changed America drastically to have wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. EVERYTHING has caveats.

maniclion · 07-23-2009, 02:20 PM

Highway's are not a universal right everybody should have to pay to drive every 10 foot even though it's inevitable that at some point you are going to need to drive on one......You can buy a pass for when you might need to take a long trip but if the people you bought the pass from see that you are about to make a long trip they can take the pass back and leave you short the money you already paid for the pass and responsible for paying the highway fees....

bio-chem · 07-23-2009, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maniclion

Highway's are not a universal right everybody should have to pay to drive every 10 foot even though it's inevitable that at some point you are going to need to drive on one......You can buy a pass for when you might need to take a long trip but if the people you bought the pass from see that you are about to make a long trip they can take the pass back and leave you short the money you already paid for the pass and responsible for paying the highway fees....

except for the obvious boost to our economy since the highway system was put into place. That was a return on our governments investment. Paid for by tax dollars that benefits everyone. Sounds like a good deal to me.

Universal health care would not have any of those benefits in my opininon

**Dale Mabry** · 07-23-2009, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bio-chem

except for the obvious boost to our economy since the highway system was put into place. That was a return on our governments investment. Paid for by tax dollars that benefits everyone. Sounds like a good deal to me.

Universal health care would not have any of those benefits in my opininon

How could having healthy productive people not offer any benefit? Hell, isn't that the reason employers chip in on employees health costs? Isn't a healthy employee a happy and productive empoyee, and aren't productive employees profitable ones?

bio-chem · 07-23-2009, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

How could having healthy productive people not offer any benefit? Hell, isn't that the reason employers chip in on employees health costs? Isn't a healthy employee a happy and productive empoyee, and aren't productive employees profitable ones?

well, for one not everyone in the US who would be covered by a universal health care plan would be productive. Employers only employ those who are productive so it seems there is a bit of a difference there.

**Dale Mabry** · 07-23-2009, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bio-chem

well, for one not everyone in the US who would be covered by a universal health care plan would be productive. Employers only employ those who are productive so it seems there is a bit of a difference there.

Not everyone on the highway is using it for a productive reason, so based on that, why is there a difference between the 2 examples (Healthcare and Highway) and are you suggesting removal of the entire highway transportation system because some people may be using it for non-productive means?

busyLivin · 07-23-2009, 03:22 PM

<Break in the action>

Buerhle's the fucking man

bio-chem · 07-23-2009, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

Not everyone on the highway is using it for a productive reason, so based on that, why is there a difference between the 2 examples (Healthcare and Highway) and are you suggesting removal of the entire highway transportation system because some people may be using it for non-productive means?

you can trace the growth of our economy with the highway system. The benefit to our country by investing in the infrastructure can't be denied.

Health care is not the same way, and i'm pretty sure you realize this. That being understood, well done, i had to check my self at first to realize you were just getting under my skin.

I'm a

min0 lee · 07-23-2009, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bio-chem

I'm a

No, your just a Mormon.

bio-chem · 07-23-2009, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by min0 lee

No, your just a Mormon.

a well armed Mormon

min0 lee · 07-23-2009, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bio-chem

a well armed Mormon

bio-chem · 07-23-2009, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by min0 lee

**Dale Mabry** · 07-24-2009, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bio-chem

you can trace the growth of our economy with the highway system. The benefit to our country by investing in the infrastructure can't be denied.

Health care is not the same way, and i'm pretty sure you realize this. That being understood, well done, i had to check my self at first to realize you were just getting under my skin.

I'm a

I agree, you can trace it, because you have data on it because it was done. Before it was implemented, there was no data, just like with healthcare. Imagine if when they were implementing it it didn't pass because someone raised a stink about people using it for illegal purposes. You cannot trace healthcare in the same way because it has never been implemented, so you could never find data for or against it. Employers contribute to healthcare for a reason, if there were no reason to do so, they wouldn't do it. My point is, there are people who are going to use the highways for unproductive purposes (Drug trafficking, criminal activity) as will unproductive people use the healthcare system, but it is still something that proves productive for the gov't to fund. Having said that, you are already paying for the unproductive people through higher healthcare costs anyway, there would be no change in this regards so it is not a logical argument against. Now, I will agree with the contention that they are rushing it to pass Obama's agenda, but I think that since they are not finishing it before recess that better ideas will come to the table. I also agree that we can't afford it now and think it should be put on hold.

I'm not trying to get underneath your skin, there really is no difference between the 2 except one was implemented and the other has yet to be.

maniclion · 07-24-2009, 03:49 PM

The National Interstate System, if memory serves, was built for rapid military deployment so it was in the best interest of National Defense, in the same light why wouldn't having the maximum number of healthy adults, teens and children in case we had a necessity to draft a large portion of the Nation as we did in WWII and the women went to work in very physically intensive jobs. Say we suddenly fell into a war with China, N. Korea, Pakistan Afghanistan, Iran, Egypt, Libya, etc. Hell we never imagined we'd fall into wars with Germany, Italy and Japan but we did. How many of these chunkmeisters would be utterly useless?

We haven't had to use the Interstates for what they were intended yet but they are still there and we have made the best use of them.

These lazy people that many are so worried about are mostly drug abusers who have no hope of getting quality treatment, under a national health plan they could get the treatments they need and head back out to be productive members of society....

07-21-2009, 05:05 PM	#1
min0 lee Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: The Bronx, NYC Posts: 38,792 Photos: 542	Poll: Great hopes for Obama fade to reality He still has a solid approval rating, but doubts grow on scope of his agenda The Associated Press updated 4:03 p.m. ET, Tues., July 21, 2009 WASHINGTON - The hope and optimism that washed over the U.S. in the opening months of Barack Obama's presidency are giving way to harsh realities. An Associated Press-GfK Poll shows that a majority of Americans are back to thinking that the country is headed in the wrong direction after a fleeting period in which more thought it was on the right track. Obama still has a solid 55 percent approval rating — better than Bill Clinton and about even with George W. Bush six months into their presidencies — but there are growing doubts about whether he can succeed at some of the biggest items on his to-do list. And there is a growing sense that he is trying to tackle too much too soon. The number of people who think Obama can improve the economy is down a sobering 19 percentage points from the euphoric days just before his inauguration. The same for expectations about creating jobs. Also down significantly: the share of people who think he can reduce the deficit, remove troops from Iraq and improve respect for the U.S. around the world, all slipping 15 points. On overhauling health care, a signature issue for Obama, hopes for success are down a lesser 6 points. Add it all up, and does it mean Obama has lost his mojo? Has yes-we-can morphed into maybe? ‘He's not Superman, right?’ "I think it's just reality," said Sandy Smith, a 48-year-old public relations worker. "He's not Superman, right?" Indeed, it's not unusual for approval ratings to slide once presidents actually get to work. They're pulled down by things going on in the real world, by people who don't agree with the ways they're addressing problems, by criticism from political opponents. In Obama's case, the problems he's confronting domestically and internationally are legion, and his ability to blame them on his predecessor is fading. Challenges still abound in Iraq and Afghanistan. Unemployment, at 7.6 percent in January, hit 9.5 percent in June and is expected to keep rising well into next year. Almost 4 percent of homeowners with mortgages are in foreclosure, and an additional 8 percent are at least a month behind on payments — the highest levels since the Great Depression of the 1930s. The president is deep into the debate over how to overhaul the U.S. health care system, and people are nervous about how their own health insurance could be affected. Obama's critics are accusing him of conducting a risky "grand experiment" that will hurt the economy and could force millions to drop their current coverage. It is all taking a toll on expectations. The number of people who think it is realistic to expect at least some noticeable improvement in the economy during Obama's first year in office dropped from 27 percent in January to 16 percent in the latest survey. There's been slippage, as well, in how people view the president personally, although he is still well regarded. About two-thirds now think he understands the problems of ordinary Americans, down from 81 percent in January. Sixty-nine percent think he's a strong leader, off from 78 percent before the inauguration. "He doesn't know enough about any of this," says Michelle Kelsey, a 37-year-old student, who gives Obama a three for leadership on a 10-point scale. But then again, Kelsey says, "Nobody could have done better." "I just feel like people haven't given him enough time. It's going to take longer for the economy to come around." It's not just Obama who is feeling the drag. Approval of Congress — already low — has gotten lower, slipping 6 percentage points to 32 percent. Wrong direction Overall, the number of people who think the country is going in the wrong direction hit 54 percent in the latest AP-GfK poll, up from 46 percent in June. That is not necessarily surprising. In years past, the public has tended to be more pessimistic than optimistic about the country's future. Recent exceptions have been short-lived, at the start of the Iraq war, after the Sept. 11 attacks in 2001, after the capture of Saddam Hussein in Iraq and late in the Clinton administration. Perhaps most troubling for Obama may be where he is losing ground. His approval rating was down 9 points among Americans overall but 20 percent among independents. Similarly, the increase in those who think the country is headed in the wrong direction came mostly from independents and Democrats. Dissatisfaction among independents grew disproportionately on Obama's handling of a range of issues, including the economy, taxes, unemployment, the environment and more. Independents are "the ones to watch," according to Professor Robert Shapiro, a Columbia University expert on public opinion. "The Republicans were more pessimistic from the outset. The Democrats are going to be more resistant to negative information." Overall, Obama still can feel good about a 55 percent approval rating, Shapiro said, but "the fact that it is on the downswing is something to be concerned about. That's going to affect how members of Congress, and in particular people in his own party, may respond to him." The AP-GfK Poll was conducted July 16-20 by GfK Roper Public Affairs & Media. It involved interviews on landlines and cell phones with 1,006 adults nationwide. The survey had a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 3.1 percentage points. URL: Poll: Great hopes for Obama fade to reality - White House- msnbc.com How To Do The Perfect Bench Press Rep Bodybuilding and Lifting Weights, the Difference ironmagazine-frapper

07-21-2009, 06:04 PM	#2
IronAddict YOU ME WE Elite Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: In my skin Posts: 2,801	He cannot pass what the powers that be don't want him to pass( alah, Hillary Clinton, in the 90's). When do we get a vote on whether or not we want universal health care. Sadly, most Americans think this is health care to cover the whole universe, not the US. The journey of a thousand miles must begin with a single step.

07-22-2009, 05:48 AM	#3
Dale Mabry Moderator Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: Elsewhere Posts: 14,335 Photos: 10	I see as his approval numbers go down, the press is starting to turn on him. Yesterday on the news there was a story on how some dude got shitty treatment thru VA care and they were discussing how that mirrors what will happen if we go thru with his reform. It's funny watching the transition. If sense were common, everyone would have it. 4/2007-Current 75th Ranked most popular image 1 spot behind Prince's bulge...

07-22-2009, 04:49 PM	#6
maniclion Cartographer of the Mind Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Mens Incognita Posts: 20,441 Photos: 10	It's just like the 7 year itch except it's a 7 month twitch, the collective eye has a little twitch and the glossy eyed public who saw the man with an aura around him is now seeing him without the blur....... "We are like tenant farmers chopping down the fence around our house for fuel when we should be using Natures inexhaustible sources of energy — sun, wind and tide. ... I'd put my money on the sun and solar energy. What a source of power! I hope we don't have to wait until oil and coal run out before we tackle that." Thomas Edison: In conversation with Henry Ford and Harvey Firestone

07-23-2009, 10:31 AM	#7
IronAddict YOU ME WE Elite Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: In my skin Posts: 2,801	Everything has to go through the House & the Senate. It's not as if he could pass anything he wanted. As long as the Reps. say NO, to everything he tries to accomplish, he will get this aura of being a failure. I believe, they really don't want to see him get credit for doing anything positive, especially not for a single payer health care reform. Now, I understand he has a slight majority, but what does it say when all of a sudden two or three members of his own party jumps to the other side ? It says things are the way they're supposed to be, and that it's just an illusion that we have a say in matters. I myself believe, anything is better than having an insurance Co. between you and your Dr. But, it's business as usual in Washington as the claim goes. The journey of a thousand miles must begin with a single step.

07-22-2009, 08:04 AM	#4
busyLivin Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Chicago Posts: 4,339	Obama's policies were NEVER as popular as he was. He is a pop-star, nothing more. People liked him, thought he was cool, but now are associating him with his far-left agenda. He's a tax & spend Democrat.. that's all. Like all pop-stars, the glamour fades. Hopefully a little accountability will follow. What makes me sick is he knows this & is trying to push through legislation (Healthcare & Cap & Trade) people are turning against the more they hear about it. Whoever though Obama wasn't a socialist was wrong.

07-23-2009, 12:38 PM	#16
busyLivin Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Chicago Posts: 4,339	Grassley said he spoke with a Democratic House member last week who shared Obama’s bleak reaction during a private meeting to reports that some factions of House Democrats were lining up to stall or even take down the overhaul unless leaders made major changes. “Let’s just lay everything on the table,” Grassley said. “A Democrat congressman last week told me after a conversation with the president that the president had trouble in the House of Representatives, and it wasn’t going to pass if there weren’t some changes made … and the president says, ‘You’re going to destroy my presidency.’”

07-23-2009, 02:20 PM	#18
maniclion Cartographer of the Mind Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Mens Incognita Posts: 20,441 Photos: 10	Highway's are not a universal right everybody should have to pay to drive every 10 foot even though it's inevitable that at some point you are going to need to drive on one......You can buy a pass for when you might need to take a long trip but if the people you bought the pass from see that you are about to make a long trip they can take the pass back and leave you short the money you already paid for the pass and responsible for paying the highway fees.... "We are like tenant farmers chopping down the fence around our house for fuel when we should be using Natures inexhaustible sources of energy — sun, wind and tide. ... I'd put my money on the sun and solar energy. What a source of power! I hope we don't have to wait until oil and coal run out before we tackle that." Thomas Edison: In conversation with Henry Ford and Harvey Firestone

07-23-2009, 03:22 PM	#23
busyLivin Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Chicago Posts: 4,339	<Break in the action> Buerhle's the fucking man <resume>

07-24-2009, 03:49 PM	#30
maniclion Cartographer of the Mind Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Mens Incognita Posts: 20,441 Photos: 10	The National Interstate System, if memory serves, was built for rapid military deployment so it was in the best interest of National Defense, in the same light why wouldn't having the maximum number of healthy adults, teens and children in case we had a necessity to draft a large portion of the Nation as we did in WWII and the women went to work in very physically intensive jobs. Say we suddenly fell into a war with China, N. Korea, Pakistan Afghanistan, Iran, Egypt, Libya, etc. Hell we never imagined we'd fall into wars with Germany, Italy and Japan but we did. How many of these chunkmeisters would be utterly useless? We haven't had to use the Interstates for what they were intended yet but they are still there and we have made the best use of them. These lazy people that many are so worried about are mostly drug abusers who have no hope of getting quality treatment, under a national health plan they could get the treatments they need and head back out to be productive members of society.... "We are like tenant farmers chopping down the fence around our house for fuel when we should be using Natures inexhaustible sources of energy — sun, wind and tide. ... I'd put my money on the sun and solar energy. What a source of power! I hope we don't have to wait until oil and coal run out before we tackle that." Thomas Edison: In conversation with Henry Ford and Harvey Firestone

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