Kim Jong Il pardons U.S. journalists Ling and Lee during Bill Clinton visit

min0 lee · 08-04-2009, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bio-chem

you think obama did the behind the scenes negotiating?

I don't know but he must have been involved somehow don't you think?
If you have followed Obama in the recent months you would think he is somehow involved.
Of course he has people to handle issues like this..

you should know this by now. It still is his call.

These are some of the people who......I don't need to tell you this.

Secretary of Defense

Attorney General

Secretary of Transportation

min0 lee · 08-04-2009, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bio-chem

you think obama did the behind the scenes negotiating?

You underestimate the Obaminator.

bio-chem · 08-04-2009, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by min0 lee

I don't know but he must have been involved somehow don't you think?
If you have followed Obama in the recent months you would think he is somehow involved.
Of course he has people to handle issues like this..

you should know this by now. It still is his call.

These are some of the people who......I don't need to tell you this.

Secretary of Defense

Attorney General

Secretary of Transportation

I think, that we have had continuing negotiations about these two women since they were detained. I think that they came up with this plan, or it was suggested to them by the koreans. Then it worked it's way up to obama who gave the ok to ask clinton. I don't think obama had a lot to do with it just like clinton didn't. They are the outward facing public figures and they get credit, but thats not who i think is responsible or did the real work.

min0 lee · 08-04-2009, 06:14 PM

This isn't because you dislike both Clinton and Obama?
That would cloud your thoughts on this.

This could have been Bush and I would still credit him for at least going there.

IronAddict · 08-04-2009, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bio-chem

I think, that we have had continuing negotiations about these two women since they were detained. I think that they came up with this plan, or it was suggested to them by the koreans. Then it worked it's way up to obama who gave the ok to ask clinton. I don't think obama had a lot to do with it just like clinton didn't. They are the outward facing public figures and they get credit, but thats not who i think is responsible or did the real work.

A. that's not a bad thing!

B. A figure head, you mean like GWB?

min0 lee · 08-04-2009, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I.C.P.

Yep.This makes Obama look bad.At least in my eyes

This is not the end of his use.

Video: Bill Clinton arrives in North Korea to free journalists - Times Onllne

Quote:

The appearance of the world’s most gregarious former head of state in the rogue state took all sides by surprise. It also suggested that President Obama is prepared to use the formidable political skills possessed by the husband of his Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton, when it suits him.

I.C.P. · 08-04-2009, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by min0 lee

Kim Jong has a history with Clinton, also I don't think they cared for a woman to deal with them...

I don't think the end result would have been the same if Bush went instead.

True.I forgot about that.

I.C.P. · 08-04-2009, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by min0 lee

What matters really is the end result, 2 innocent people have been freed and everyone is happy.

Although Obama tends to stick his nose into everything he does have other people in his Cabinet to handle situations like this.

Agreed very much.

min0 lee · 08-04-2009, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxpro2

You are assuming that anyone can just "go" and negotiate with North Korea and that the North Koreans have no say.

Exactly my point but in going with the flow of the thread I used a worst case scenario and who other than Bush.
I didn't assume anyone could go.....Elvis is long gone so there went my choice.

IronAddict · 08-04-2009, 06:59 PM

very nice!

maniclion · 08-04-2009, 08:00 PM

N. Korea (Lil Kim Il) gets attention starved and throws a fit every now and then.....Obama sent Nanny Bill to coddle him......Bill is a smooth operator, you have to give him that. I think he can talk himself out of just about anything.....

danzik17 · 08-04-2009, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prince

I will be curious to see what GWB gets used for in regards to future foreign affairs.

"W, can you hop a plane down to Mexico? Their President's toilet needs cleaning"

bio-chem · 08-04-2009, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by min0 lee

This isn't because you dislike both Clinton and Obama?
That would cloud your thoughts on this.

This could have been Bush and I would still credit him for at least going there.

do you honestly think clinton did more than take pictures? do you really think that clinton didn't know when he got on that plane that he would be coming back with these two ladies?

maxpro2 · 08-04-2009, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bio-chem

do you honestly think clinton did more than take pictures? do you really think that clinton didn't know when he got on that plane that he would be coming back with these two ladies?

As much as I hate to agree with bio-chem, and as much as I love Bill Clinton, his trip seemed to be just a formality after weeks of negotiation. The North Koreans would rather see Bill Clinton get the credit than Obama.

But I don't want to make light of what Bill Clinton did--it takes huge huevos to travel to a hostile country under any circumstance.

min0 lee · 08-04-2009, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bio-chem

do you honestly think clinton did more than take pictures? do you really think that clinton didn't know when he got on that plane that he would be coming back with these two ladies?

You can discredit Clinton all you can and even belittle me but the man did the job....you can say he accomplished his mission.
Still takes a lot of balls to go into enemy hands. I'm sure they all had butterflies in their stomach. Jong is a nut.

I went back and I don't see where I said any of that. Are you putting words in my mouth again?

min0 lee · 08-04-2009, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxpro2

As much as I hate to agree with bio-chem, and as much as I love Bill Clinton, his trip seemed to be just a formality after weeks of negotiation. The North Koreans would rather see Bill Clinton get the credit than Obama.

But I don't want to make light of what Bill Clinton did--it takes huge huevos to travel to a hostile country under any circumstance.

I don't disagree with him at all but for some reason Bio thinks I am that naive. Still, he went over there and did what was expected of him.

Kudos to him.

lnvanry · 08-04-2009, 10:33 PM

Obama didn't "send" Clinton over there officially.

"Washington, keen to avoid any suggestion it was making official overtures to North Korean leader Kim Jong-il after his recent nuclear and missile tests, insisted the meeting was a private one by Clinton and denied North Korea's claim he had brought a message from President Barack Obama."

Clinton, U.S. journalists leave North Korea | U.S. | Reuters

Also, I don't know if I would presume the two women were innocent or guilty...most educated people know (which both were) that you can't go into NK with out permission let alone go in stated as a journalist. There is no free press or civil rights there...they should have known better....or

They used the most common cover that many intel ops officers typically use...journalism. Its a profession were asking questions is common and includes interface with high level people sometimes. The perfect cover for targeted relationship building and intel gathering....my guess, they prolly were spies and got busted doing there job. They're lucky they didn't get left high and dry.

Kind of like these "hikers" and free lance journalist

Iran: 3 Americans to be investigated for spying - Yahoo! News

The freelance journalist was described as very intelligent by his former classmates...kind of dum dum move to accidently hike across one of the most hostile borders in the world. Something doesn't add up IMHO.

I'm not stating these individuals were all undercover, but there is definitely enough evidence to keep the theory on the table....what would our country do if we found NK journalist and Iranian students cross our MEX border or undocumented?

One source in the article says they were living too poor to be intel ops...lol. Its not like ops officers are James Bond.

I'm glad they two women from NK are back in the US and unharmed...I can only the others have the same fate.

min0 lee · 08-04-2009, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by min0 lee

What matters really is the end result, 2 innocent people have been freed and everyone is happy.

Damn, I agree....except I don't think everyone is happy for selfish reasons I suppose.

I still have to give credit where credit is due. This guy is a really good talker, a shrewd politician and still has a great deal of credibility with much of the world.
His job may not be over yet, there 3 "intelligent" hikers being held hostage in Iran who could use slick Willie to save them.

This party over the country soap opera can get real tiring after a while.

maxpro2 · 08-04-2009, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lnvanry

my guess, they prolly were spies and got busted doing there job.

lol

min0 lee · 08-04-2009, 10:49 PM

I can't wait to hear what Fox has to say.

MSNBC.com
Analysis: U.S. lets N. Korea's Kim save face
Payoff is likely to be renewed dialogue about nuclear weapons program
ANALYSIS
The Associated Press
updated 10:13 p.m. ET, Tues., Aug 4, 2009

WASHINGTON - The Obama administration let North Korean leader Kim Jong Il save face by releasing two jailed Americans to former President Bill Clinton. The payoff — maybe not right away — is likely to be renewed dialogue with Pyongyang about its nuclear weapons program.
After meeting with Clinton, who made an unannounced visit to the North Korean capital Tuesday, Kim pardoned and freed the young journalists who allegedly crossed into the country from China earlier this year. They were serving 12-year prison sentences.
"It could provide an opportunity to move forward on the nuclear issue, and that's not necessarily a bad thing," said Victor Cha, former Asia chief at the National Security Council. "The history with the North Koreans, as they have just done the past few months, is to put themselves out on a ledge. And they always need help getting off that ledge."

more....

min0 lee · 08-04-2009, 10:57 PM

At least we get to see his photo, I really thought Kim died long ago.

min0 lee · 08-04-2009, 11:00 PM

Yank GM Cashen Hires Torre who in turn uses a Pinch hitter (Jeter) to replace his starter in the bottom of the ninth.....pinch hitter hits a walk off home run!!

Who is the hero?

lnvanry · 08-05-2009, 12:53 AM

Lou Pinella

maniclion · 08-05-2009, 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by min0 lee

I can't wait to hear what Fox has to say.

Close to the same thing I said, that it was just rewarding Kim Jongs bad behavior, he's been throwing tantrums lately.... They sent the Nanny to give in to his infantile attention craving behavior.....

bio-chem · 08-05-2009, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by min0 lee

I don't disagree with him at all but for some reason Bio thinks I am that naive. Still, he went over there and did what was expected of him.

Kudos to him.

I don't think you are niave. I just don't think we should raise the guy on a pedestal for getting his picture taken. Every one of us here has been in a more dangerous position than bill was in.

Jarhed · 08-05-2009, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maniclion

N. Korea (Lil Kim Il) gets attention starved and throws a fit every now and then.....

YouTube Video

min0 lee · 08-05-2009, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bio-chem

I don't think you are niave. I just don't think we should raise the guy on a pedestal for getting his picture taken. Every one of us here has been in a more dangerous position than bill was in.

To you he isn't but to the Lee's and Ling families he is a superhero.

Quote:

In response to the release of their daughters, the Lee and Ling families issued a personal message of thanks to President Obama, Secretary of State Clinton, former President Clinton, and former Vice President Gore. "We are so grateful to our government, President Obama, Secretary Clinton, and the U.S. State Department for their dedication to and hard work on behalf of American citizens," said their statement. "We especially want to thank President Bill Clinton for taking on such an arduous mission and Vice President Al Gore for his tireless efforts to bring Laura and Euna home. We are counting the seconds to hold Laura and Euna in our arms."

bio-chem · 08-05-2009, 06:27 PM

Analysis: Obama lets NKorea's Kim save face - Yahoo! News
Bill Clinton undertook the mission, a senior administration official said, only after the North assured the White House that the reporters would be freed and allowed to return home with the former president.

min0 lee · 08-05-2009, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bio-chem

Analysis: Obama lets NKorea's Kim save face - Yahoo! News
Bill Clinton undertook the mission, a senior administration official said, only after the North assured the White House that the reporters would be freed and allowed to return home with the former president.

Old news, my famous stubbornness refuses to pay attention to you.

bio-chem · 08-05-2009, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by min0 lee

Old news, my famous stubbornness refuses to pay attention to you.

hahah. part of why i like you so much mino

08-04-2009, 06:14 PM	#34
min0 lee Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: The Bronx, NYC Posts: 38,792 Photos: 542	This isn't because you dislike both Clinton and Obama? That would cloud your thoughts on this. This could have been Bush and I would still credit him for at least going there. How To Do The Perfect Bench Press Rep Bodybuilding and Lifting Weights, the Difference ironmagazine-frapper

08-04-2009, 06:59 PM	#40
IronAddict YOU ME WE Elite Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: In my skin Posts: 2,801	very nice! The journey of a thousand miles must begin with a single step.

08-04-2009, 08:00 PM	#41
maniclion Cartographer of the Mind Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Mens Incognita Posts: 20,441 Photos: 10	N. Korea (Lil Kim Il) gets attention starved and throws a fit every now and then.....Obama sent Nanny Bill to coddle him......Bill is a smooth operator, you have to give him that. I think he can talk himself out of just about anything..... "We are like tenant farmers chopping down the fence around our house for fuel when we should be using Natures inexhaustible sources of energy — sun, wind and tide. ... I'd put my money on the sun and solar energy. What a source of power! I hope we don't have to wait until oil and coal run out before we tackle that." Thomas Edison: In conversation with Henry Ford and Harvey Firestone

08-04-2009, 10:49 PM	#50
min0 lee Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: The Bronx, NYC Posts: 38,792 Photos: 542	I can't wait to hear what Fox has to say. MSNBC.com Analysis: U.S. lets N. Korea's Kim save face Payoff is likely to be renewed dialogue about nuclear weapons program ANALYSIS The Associated Press updated 10:13 p.m. ET, Tues., Aug 4, 2009 WASHINGTON - The Obama administration let North Korean leader Kim Jong Il save face by releasing two jailed Americans to former President Bill Clinton. The payoff — maybe not right away — is likely to be renewed dialogue with Pyongyang about its nuclear weapons program. After meeting with Clinton, who made an unannounced visit to the North Korean capital Tuesday, Kim pardoned and freed the young journalists who allegedly crossed into the country from China earlier this year. They were serving 12-year prison sentences. "It could provide an opportunity to move forward on the nuclear issue, and that's not necessarily a bad thing," said Victor Cha, former Asia chief at the National Security Council. "The history with the North Koreans, as they have just done the past few months, is to put themselves out on a ledge. And they always need help getting off that ledge." more.... How To Do The Perfect Bench Press Rep Bodybuilding and Lifting Weights, the Difference ironmagazine-frapper

08-04-2009, 10:57 PM	#51
min0 lee Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: The Bronx, NYC Posts: 38,792 Photos: 542	At least we get to see his photo, I really thought Kim died long ago. How To Do The Perfect Bench Press Rep Bodybuilding and Lifting Weights, the Difference ironmagazine-frapper

08-04-2009, 10:33 PM	#47
lnvanry primeau Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Tucson Posts: 3,439 Photos: 16	Obama didn't "send" Clinton over there officially. "Washington, keen to avoid any suggestion it was making official overtures to North Korean leader Kim Jong-il after his recent nuclear and missile tests, insisted the meeting was a private one by Clinton and denied North Korea's claim he had brought a message from President Barack Obama." Clinton, U.S. journalists leave North Korea \| U.S. \| Reuters Also, I don't know if I would presume the two women were innocent or guilty...most educated people know (which both were) that you can't go into NK with out permission let alone go in stated as a journalist. There is no free press or civil rights there...they should have known better....or They used the most common cover that many intel ops officers typically use...journalism. Its a profession were asking questions is common and includes interface with high level people sometimes. The perfect cover for targeted relationship building and intel gathering....my guess, they prolly were spies and got busted doing there job. They're lucky they didn't get left high and dry. Kind of like these "hikers" and free lance journalist Iran: 3 Americans to be investigated for spying - Yahoo! News The freelance journalist was described as very intelligent by his former classmates...kind of dum dum move to accidently hike across one of the most hostile borders in the world. Something doesn't add up IMHO. I'm not stating these individuals were all undercover, but there is definitely enough evidence to keep the theory on the table....what would our country do if we found NK journalist and Iranian students cross our MEX border or undocumented? One source in the article says they were living too poor to be intel ops...lol. Its not like ops officers are James Bond. I'm glad they two women from NK are back in the US and unharmed...I can only the others have the same fate.

08-04-2009, 11:00 PM	#52
min0 lee Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: The Bronx, NYC Posts: 38,792 Photos: 542	Yank GM Cashen Hires Torre who in turn uses a Pinch hitter (Jeter) to replace his starter in the bottom of the ninth.....pinch hitter hits a walk off home run!! Who is the hero? How To Do The Perfect Bench Press Rep Bodybuilding and Lifting Weights, the Difference ironmagazine-frapper

08-05-2009, 12:53 AM	#53
lnvanry primeau Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Tucson Posts: 3,439 Photos: 16	Lou Pinella

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