Thread: IRS gets a key to Swiss bank accounts

Or they will just move all their money into Cayman Island accounts, and f*ck the Swiss's whole banking system..
I wonder why they punked those particular 5000 customers out? -

So if the Swiss banks aren't going to hide their customer's money anymore, what good are they at this point?

Originally Posted by KelJu

So if the Swiss banks aren't going to hide their customer's money anymore, what good are they at this point?

expensive watches?

Switzerland Caves In To IRS Demands
by Parmy Olson

With UBS names going to the IRS, expect authorities to go after more Swiss banks and maybe even lawyers.

LONDON -- To assist the U.S. government Switzerland has lifted its veil of secrecy and has agreed to give 4,450 banking client names to the Internal Revenue Service. The international crackdown on tax evasion has been gaining ever more momentum as governments, smarting from the economic crisis, seek to claw back as much revenue as they can. As a result, Swiss banking is crumbling and Switzerland's reputation for financial discretion is suffering as well.

The agreement between Switzerland and the United States announced on Wednesday could set a precedent for American authorities to go after more names, from more Swiss banks. Until now, Switzerland has, like other tax haven countries, only shared banking records with foreign law enforcement agencies if they're investigating an action that would be considered criminal under Swiss law. Switzerland hasn't changed any of its laws but has changed its interpretation of existing laws that cover "tax fraud and the like." It won't be known how far-reaching this precedent will be for another 90 days; Swiss and U.S. authorities are keeping some of it secret because the IRS is hoping that U.S. depositors in tax haven nations will come clean on their own.

In its essence, Wednesday's deal came from a diplomatic dance that saw Switzerland agree to reinterpret what it classed as tax evasion. It allows UBS ( UBS - news - people ) to give up account information requested by the IRS to the Swiss Financial Tax Administration to then release to the IRS, without breaking Swiss law.

The newly tailored agreement is based on terms of a double-taxation agreement that has existed between the United States and Switzerland since 1996 but which on its own has done little to help the IRS identify tax evaders. Now clauses in the new agreement could allow the IRS go against other Swiss banks if they can assemble similar sorts of information to request of the Swiss government. "There are further avenues for the DOJ and IRS to pursue," said Richard Murphy of the British tax consultancy Tax Research.

Both Switzerland's and UBS' reputation for banking secrecy has already been permanently scarred. (See "UBS: The Good Days Are Gone.") But confirmation that the IRS will get names from UBS will compel a flood of more wealthy individuals who have Swiss bank accounts to come forward to meet the voluntary disclosure deadline set by the IRS of Sept. 23, a date agency announced on Wednesday. Those who fess up after that deadline will face harsher penalties.

Many offshore banking clients (not just those who bank with UBS) have until now been in wait-and-see mode for the outcome of the UBS case. Robert McKenzie, a partner at law firm Arnstein & Lehr and former officer with the IRS Collection Division, is currently advising approximately 50 such clients on the IRS disclosure issue--some are not clients of UBS but of other offshore banks and are concerned about the impact of the Swiss bank's case.

source

Originally Posted by Prince

expensive watches?

Lol, I don't mean the Swiss people, I mean the Swiss banks.

I think its great, why should these rich assholes be able to hide their money in other countries, if they live in the US and make their money here they should pay their taxes, fuck them.

I think it sucks...

I wish we would adopt some sort of flat tax system,
and lay-off the majority of the IRS...

Not increase their power stateside,
or especially not their ability to reach their slimy
tentacles overseas.

Originally Posted by The Monkey Man

I think it sucks...

I wish we would adopt some sort of flat tax system,
and lay-off the majority of the IRS...

Not increase their power stateside,
or especially not their ability to reach their slimy
tentacles overseas.

that's an entirely different issue, I don't want the IRS to have more power, nor do I agree with the current tax system here, but I also don't want rich assholes getting away with hiding their money overseas and avoid paying taxes.

Originally Posted by Prince

that's an entirely different issue, I don't want the IRS to have more power, nor do I agree with the current tax system here, but I also don't want rich assholes getting away with hiding their money overseas and avoid paying taxes.

Why do they have to be rich assholes? I believe I read the Clintons maintain off shore accounts.
I understand what you mean, why we have to pay taxes and they can shelter their money. However, even the new President directly stated: Becuase they can afford to. (pay more taxes)
So...now being successful is punished?
If I were wealthy...and having a shit ton of taxes witheld...you bet your ass I'd be hiding it away too. that's my earned income. I earned it...I want it for my use.
On a tangent....this health care plan obama wants....does that mean that people who get cancer from smoking (for example)...do we the tax payers have to pony up the $$ to pay for their health care? I'm not the dumb ass who was stupid enough to willingly draw smoke into my lungs. that's on them. Fuq THEM.
I am not willing to pay for others bad choices, misstakes, etc....so, on that note, I'd hide my money too.
Doesn't make me a bad person. I'm responsible for my actions, I will hold others to theirs.
I believe we can give a basic health plan at a reasonable cost. If everybody pays a small amount per month, they should get basic coverage. (would have to hammer out the bascs)

I don't know enough about economics, but I would like to know if that flat rate tax across the board will work? EVERYBODY pays: X% of their income, regardless of income level.

Originally Posted by Burner02

Why do they have to be rich assholes? I believe I read the Clintons maintain off shore accounts.
I understand what you mean, why we have to pay taxes and they can shelter their money. However, even the new President directly stated: Becuase they can afford to. (pay more taxes)
So...now being successful is punished?
If I were wealthy...and having a shit ton of taxes witheld...you bet your ass I'd be hiding it away too. that's my earned income. I earned it...I want it for my use.
On a tangent....this health care plan obama wants....does that mean that people who get cancer from smoking (for example)...do we the tax payers have to pony up the $$ to pay for their health care? I'm not the dumb ass who was stupid enough to willingly draw smoke into my lungs. that's on them. Fuq THEM.
I am not willing to pay for others bad choices, misstakes, etc....so, on that note, I'd hide my money too.
Doesn't make me a bad person. I'm responsible for my actions, I will hold others to theirs.
I believe we can give a basic health plan at a reasonable cost. If everybody pays a small amount per month, they should get basic coverage. (would have to hammer out the bascs)

I don't know enough about economics, but I would like to know if that flat rate tax across the board will work? EVERYBODY pays: X% of their income, regardless of income level.

If you have health insurance, you are already paying for people who smoke, obese people, etc. through increased premiums every year.

A flat tax would work...If the gov't was willing to reduce it's involvement in people's lives, and at this point neither party is willing to give up any control, so it won't.

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

If you have health insurance, you are already paying for people who smoke, obese people, etc. through increased premiums every year.

A flat tax would work...If the gov't was willing to reduce it's involvement in people's lives, and at this point neither party is willing to give up any control, so it won't.

Well, I didn't know that....now I'm even more frustrated...see, I don't see how it's my responsibility to foot the bill of some fat bastard, smoker, alcoholic, etc. Those are personal choices.


...yeah....government will NEVER decrease in size...'cause it seems the government seems to only represent IT'S needs...not We the People's needs...funny how that works...
I'd like to see a 'none of the above' option on all ballots as well.

Originally Posted by Burner02

Well, I didn't know that....now I'm even more frustrated...see, I don't see how it's my responsibility to foot the bill of some fat bastard, smoker, alcoholic, etc. Those are personal choices.

What's worse, the other primary talking point about not wanting to pay for the uninsured already happens as well, through the same increase in premiums.

Being successful and putting your money into a swiss bank account is entirely different from being devious and hiding money so one would not have to pay taxes.

While both can be disguised as the same item, one will be honest and pay the due taxes for money made in the states, not interest on the account.

Another great reason to put money into the overseas accounts are insurance. If something dreadful happens here in the united states we are now only guaranteed to 250,000 dollars. Swiss and cayman bank accounts can insure for much higher values.

It's the end of an Era, your childrens' children will be watching some Classic Movie in 2045 like The Bourne Identity with Matt Damon, the guy who started doing a Web-Based Mr. Rogers knock-off in 2032, anyhow they will ask you what is so special about the Swiss Bank Account.....then they will say, "Oh! It's like when grandma buries her jar of jewelry in the garden and then says she took it of so it wouldn't get dirty and a bird flew away with it so you buy her more!!!!!!!"

Originally Posted by suprfast

Being successful and putting your money into a swiss bank account is entirely different from being devious and hiding money so one would not have to pay taxes.

While both can be disguised as the same item, one will be honest and pay the due taxes for money made in the states, not interest on the account.

Another great reason to put money into the overseas accounts are insurance. If something dreadful happens here in the united states we are now only guaranteed to 250,000 dollars. Swiss and cayman bank accounts can insure for much higher values.

What percentage of people with Numbered Accounts do you think are doing it after they paid their taxes? How do you pay taxes on bribe, blackmail and extortion money? Oh yes in 2006 I kidnapped the Daughter of a Rich oil magnate and had 2 million transferred to my Swiss Account, and in 2009 I had a racket going where if I didn't get monthly transactions into my Off-Shore account several Senators would have pictures with their mistresses broadcast by the highest paying network......

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

A flat tax would work...If the gov't was willing to reduce it's involvement in people's lives, and at this point neither party is willing to give up any control, so it won't.

Exactly... This is why I don't like it...

Remember when Bill Clinton used to fire out all those audits at the
reporters who were digging up dirt on all his alleged affairs!?
Thats abuse from hell, but the GOVT is so involved, and the politicians
so fat with squabbling for tax dollars for their little "causes" (pockets)...

It will never shrink..

Taxation as created in the constitution by the founders, was supposed to be voluntary anyway... They knew all too well, because they were getting ass-raped by King George & the British Parliament at the time.

Now, were getting ass-raped, and all this swiss bank stuff,
is just equal to a bigger cornhole.

Originally Posted by Burner02

Why do they have to be rich assholes? I believe I read the Clintons maintain off shore accounts.
I understand what you mean, why we have to pay taxes and they can shelter their money. However, even the new President directly stated: Becuase they can afford to. (pay more taxes)
So...now being successful is punished?
If I were wealthy...and having a shit ton of taxes witheld...you bet your ass I'd be hiding it away too. that's my earned income. I earned it...I want it for my use.
On a tangent....this health care plan obama wants....does that mean that people who get cancer from smoking (for example)...do we the tax payers have to pony up the $$ to pay for their health care? I'm not the dumb ass who was stupid enough to willingly draw smoke into my lungs. that's on them. Fuq THEM.
I am not willing to pay for others bad choices, misstakes, etc....so, on that note, I'd hide my money too.
Doesn't make me a bad person. I'm responsible for my actions, I will hold others to theirs.
I believe we can give a basic health plan at a reasonable cost. If everybody pays a small amount per month, they should get basic coverage. (would have to hammer out the bascs)

I don't know enough about economics, but I would like to know if that flat rate tax across the board will work? EVERYBODY pays: X% of their income, regardless of income level.

We all earn our money, we all work hard for it, we all deserve to keep it....The middle class has been taxed to death for years, the rich complain like fuck when they get taxed more, but they are able to do something about it and hide their money away elsewhere....I support this.

Originally Posted by Fetusaurus Rex

We all earn our money, we all work hard for it, we all deserve to keep it....The middle class has been taxed to death for years, the rich complain like fuck when they get taxed more, but they are able to do something about it and hide their money away elsewhere....I support this.

Nah...

The key isn't to support additional taxation of other folks...

The key is to restructure taxation for all--- equally...

If we all paid 20% on tax immediately for any income,
and 20% for all sales nationally and also to include "US TERRITORIES"...
We'd be OK...

We are getting soaked because a handful of third-world nations
like Puerto Rico, Guam, ETC. Take our protection, immigration, tax $,
and keep their "Independence"...

Time for everyone to "PONY-UP" and be equal I say.

I think, if there is nominal fair taxation, and no need for loopholes,
and returns, and exccess, tax credits... We can cut costs and be fine!

Hey, I'm middle income...
If I make, say, $75k per year...
I would love to know that only 20% was going to the GOV.

In relation...
If I made $500K, I would also like to know that I was only paying 20% to
the man.

In addition, if I made $15k
and had to give up 20%,
sure it would hurt, but I would know that the bigger guys pay the same thing I do.

Deletion of welfare is the key to strength here...
Nobody should get a check for nothing.

If you cant get a job, join the Navy, or quit FUCKING, beyond your means.

Check this out:
Since the beginning of their profession 100 years ago, social workers have taken a problem-solving approach to working with families. For example, the current CPS system in the U.S. grew out of Societies for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children (SPCCs). Most SPCCs focused on rescuing children and punishing those who abused them. In the early 1900s, the more than 300 SPCCs across the country gave little attention to helping or supporting parents who had abused their children.
In the 1930s and 1940s, stress caused by the Depression and World War II made it hard for many families to care for their children. During this time, public sympathy for struggling families led to welfare and other government support. At the same time, government began to assume the work of the SPCCs, making child protection a government function for the first time. In the 1960s and 1970s, child abuse began to be treated by the medical community as an illness. As concern about child abuse grew, abuse was studied and quantified. Eventually, the studies of the 1960s led to the passing of the 1974 Child Abuse and Prevention Treatment Act (CAPTA, PL 93-247). CAPTA encouraged states to have mandatory reporting laws and a state registry of perpetrators and victims.
Mandatory reporting laws and the national attention given to the issue of child maltreatment resulted in sharp increases in reports of abuse and neglect in the 1980s and 1990s. Reports of abuse and neglect rose 347% between 1973 and 1993 (Berg & Kelly, 2000). As agencies struggled to respond to the growing number of maltreatment reports, many children were removed from their homes, in part because most of the federal funding available for services 20 years ago was for foster care. In fact, the U.S. still relies heavily on crisis reporting and reactively-financed child welfare (Berg & Kelly, 2000).
Because of the numbers of children entering foster care, various laws were passed throughout the 1980s and 1990s to prevent unnecessary removals and to provide more prevention and early intervention services for struggling families. Some of these laws included the 1980 Adoption Assistance and Child Welfare Act (PL 96-272) and the 1993 Family Preservation and Support Act (PL 103-66). This new shift in thinking focused attention on the principles of family support and family-centered services. For the first time, the child welfare field began to move away from a problem-solving, symptom-based approach to its work.

So we created the problem...
Threw money at it...
Took it out of hands of parents..
and now taxpayers are responsible for it.

Originally Posted by The Monkey Man

Nah...

The key isn't to support additional taxation of other folks...

The key is to restructure taxation for all--- equally...

If we all paid 20% on tax immediately for any income,
and 20% for all sales nationally and also to include "US TERRITORIES"...
We'd be OK...

We are getting soaked because a handful of third-world nations
like Puerto Rico, Guam, ETC. Take our protection, immigration, tax $,
and keep their "Independence"...

Time for everyone to "PONY-UP" and be equal I say.

I think, if there is nominal fair taxation, and no need for loopholes,
and returns, and exccess, tax credits... We can cut costs and be fine!

I would agree to this in a heart beat...20%? That's less than I pay now...I'd even go 25% if straight across the board for everybody.

The top 5 percent pay well over half the income taxes.

check this out:

that is basic econ 101. Any class one attends will vouch the top 5% make up over 50% of the taxes.

What percentage of numbered accounts dont hide their money. Again the point i was making was insurance reasons. If i was a millionaire and good ol BofA was only going to insure me for 250K i would have to open up 15 different accounts or just have one off shores where it was safe.

Originally Posted by The Monkey Man

We are getting soaked because a handful of third-world nations
like Puerto Rico, Guam, ETC. Take our protection, immigration, tax $,
and keep their "Independence"...DUDE, don't even get me started on Micronesians, they're like the Cuban's of the Pacific.....

Time for everyone to "PONY-UP" and be equal I say.

I think, if there is nominal fair taxation, and no need for loopholes,
and returns, and exccess, tax credits... We can cut costs and be fine!

Thing's like Tax Credits and Rebates are used to stimulate the Nation to take directions they wouldn't otherwise take, like with Alternative Energy, the solar market is pretty reliant on the Federal Tax Credit Program, when it shows signs of vanishing there is an increase in systems being sold. There are a number of these credits that just help to improve our society. But then of course there are credits for nonsense as well....I think they should just follow a 7th Generation format for deciding what Tax Credits are going to be beneficial....*