Thread: New Tvs these days vs. regular television broadcasting

Originally Posted by AKIRA

So, Ive noticed a shitty thing about new LCD tvs. They make every god damn movie look like they have the same special effects as those seen in a SyFy original movie. Everything looks fuzzy and slow.

Now if you put on a high tech movie either Blue Ray or some HD broadcast, I see incredible shit.

However, not all tvs have this flaw. My room mates plasma doesnt pull this shit and I am in the market for a new tv. How do I know which tv will provide the same kind of viewing pleasure for regular television (that my regular tv currently provides) AND is suited for HD viewing?

I have a Samsung Plasma and love it. Maybe go to a bestbuy and check em out.

Originally Posted by AKIRA

So, Ive noticed a shitty thing about new LCD tvs. They make every god damn movie look like they have the same special effects as those seen in a SyFy original movie. Everything looks fuzzy and slow.

Now if you put on a high tech movie either Blue Ray or some HD broadcast, I see incredible shit.

However, not all tvs have this flaw. My room mates plasma doesnt pull this shit and I am in the market for a new tv. How do I know which tv will provide the same kind of viewing pleasure for regular television (that my regular tv currently provides) AND is suited for HD viewing?

Plasma's use a different technology and that is why you don't see the refresh rate issue, however the NEW LCD's are at 240hz refresh rate and also no longer have that issue. I recommend you go with an LCD at a 240hz refresh rate and if you can afford it one that uses the new LED technology.

Yep the refresh rate is the biggy.

Old LCDs were only at like 60hz, then there were 120 and now 240.

Not sure how much difference there is with the LED tvs though.

Originally Posted by IainDaniel

Yep the refresh rate is the biggy.

Old LCDs were only at like 60hz, then there were 120 and now 240.

Not sure how much difference there is with the LED tvs though.

and when you see the ads for LCD's and they seem really cheap usually it's because they have a 60hz refresh rate, read the feature list, and fo course make sure it's 1080p and not 720.

the new LED technology produces darker blacks which is a problem with old non-LED LCD's.

Of the 6 LCD/Plasma tv's I have the best picture is our 54" Panasonic Plasma, the blacks are so pure you can watch dark movies in the daytime and still make out everything, so many I had before would be washed out.....

I noticed this a while ago, but going home for christmas (making the purchase after thanksgiving and before santas arrival) my mom had a new Samsung flat screen. So...I didnt know the specs, but the fucker was new. Yet everything I watched looked like shit (she doesnt have HD).

Originally Posted by AKIRA

I noticed this a while ago, but going home for christmas (making the purchase after thanksgiving and before santas arrival) my mom had a new Samsung flat screen. So...I didnt know the specs, but the fucker was new. Yet everything I watched looked like shit (she doesnt have HD).

Next time you go over you might check the A/V forums, look up the model and find the optimum settings to calibrate it for best picture quality, those geeks have lists of every setting for contrast, colors etc. to get the most out of your unit.....

46" Vizio; walmart. Crisp clean and vibrant as hell. Now if I can just get it on the wall!

I stopped watching TV two years ago. Probably the best decision I ever made.

Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman

I stopped watching TV two years ago. Probably the best decision I ever made.

Wasn't 2 years ago when you started whoring 24/7 online? Great trade off....

manic, dont forget gay for pay, it does take up a lot his time I'm sure.

Originally Posted by juggernaut

46" Vizio; walmart. Crisp clean and vibrant as hell. Now if I can just get it on the wall!

Vizio huh? I think I saw them in there for some incredible prices, but with TVs, I follow (somewhat) the saying: you get what you pay for.

I can go to best buy right now and see what I need to see....but not fully. Their displays are all in HD. Obviously, to show off the TVs capability. Most of the channels are still in regular format, so I want to make sure they still deliver the goods.

Also, I wanted to know if these things are power hogs. I figured new technologies are coming up with more efficient delivery but perhaps I am wrong. Any input here?

DOMS where the fuck are you

Originally Posted by AKIRA

Vizio huh? I think I saw them in there for some incredible prices, but with TVs, I follow (somewhat) the saying: you get what you pay for.

I can go to best buy right now and see what I need to see....but not fully. Their displays are all in HD. Obviously, to show off the TVs capability. Most of the channels are still in regular format, so I want to make sure they still deliver the goods.

Also, I wanted to know if these things are power hogs. I figured new technologies are coming up with more efficient delivery but perhaps I am wrong. Any input here?

DOMS where the fuck are you

Most channels are now in HD bro. I only watch SD (standard Def) when I watch MTV. I have not noticed any increase in my electric bill. My 50" Samsung Plasma is a little over a year old. I hung it on the wall. It doesn't get hot. I really couldn't be more happy with it. Its 1080p but the only thing that you can watch in 1080p is blu-ray movies.

As for Vizios. A guy at work has about 4 of them in his house. My work includes a lot A/V and he is one of the top engineers. I have seen them and I just don't like the way they look physically. They look kinda cheap, which they are. The picture wasn't horrible but its not nearly as good as my Samsung.

That's true most of the channels now have an HD counterpart, so it shouldn't be much of an issue. I always thought it was your cable/satellite provider that was responsible for shitty standard def viewing. the worst is when I have to watch a Rangers game on the overflow channel and it's in standard def, my God, it is fucking disgusting, almost unwatchable....yet, I can go into my basement and put on my good old 27 inch tube TV, and the standard def looks really good, so go figure.

bottom line is you aren't going to get good standard def viewing on any HD tv, at least imo.

Originally Posted by AKIRA

Yet everything I watched looked like shit (she doesnt have HD).

^ To directly reply, the basis for my question is that some HD TVs dont NEED to be viewed on HD channels to show off their reasons for being. There are some TVs out there, HD TVs, that dont fuck up regular broadcasting. And in my book, if I am paying top dollar, I should expect my TV to do everything my old one can, but MORE and WITHOUT tweaking of any kind.

The main 2 reasons I wanted to get a new tv is cuz of space saving reasons and if theyre energy efficient ones out there. I dont have HD here at this house either, but most, if not all TVs nowadays are HD compatible and thats why I want to seek out the one with the least problems.

Originally Posted by AKIRA

^ To directly reply, the basis for my question is that some HD TVs dont NEED to be viewed on HD channels to show off their reasons for being. There are some TVs out there, HD TVs, that dont fuck up regular broadcasting. And in my book, if I am paying top dollar, I should expect my TV to do everything my old one can, but MORE and WITHOUT tweaking of any kind.

The main 2 reasons I wanted to get a new tv is cuz of space saving reasons and if theyre energy efficient ones out there. I dont have HD here at this house either, but most, if not all TVs nowadays are HD compatible and thats why I want to seek out the one with the least problems.

isn't that what everyone wants from new technologies? get real, it does not work that way.

HD has to do with the tuner, I believe. You can have an HD tv with all the trimmings but if I understand this correctly, an HD channel can only be broadcast with an HD tuner box, unless that HD channel is OTA.

Originally Posted by juggernaut

HD has to do with the tuner, I believe. You can have an HD tv with all the trimmings but if I understand this correctly, an HD channel can only be broadcast with an HD tuner box, unless that HD channel is OTA.

I have Comcast cable and I have to pay for an HD box to get the channels in HD, not sure about regular broadcasting over the airwaves.

I actually have basic cable with no box and I pick up all the major networks OTA in HD. I find myself watching shows I don't even like, just cuz they're in HD.

Originally Posted by Robert D.

I have Comcast cable and I have to pay for an HD box to get the channels in HD, not sure about regular broadcasting over the airwaves.

I do too. Comcast is a fucking ripoff. It gives you a lot of HD channels, but from what I understand, FIOS is all HD and faster.

As for OTA, all channels are digital so youre getting an inferior in terms of quality of the picture. Can you say pixelicious?

Originally Posted by juggernaut

I do too. Comcast is a fucking ripoff. It gives you a lot of HD channels, but from what I understand, FIOS is all HD and faster.

As for OTA, all channels are digital so youre getting an inferior in terms of quality of the picture. Can you say pixelicious?

Yeah, I'd imagine it's not as good as a direct signal but it's 100x's better than non-HD.

HD-Lite: A Not So Dirty, Little Secret


Cable and satellite providers are coming under fire for delivering subpar high definition television.

Is HDTV Compression Damaging Picture Quality?

ouis Chunovic, PC World
PC World
Saturday, April 26, 2008 12:19 AM

Do your HDTV programs look as good as they should? If not, you may be seeing the results of overcompression. A growing number of viewers and experts are claiming that increased use of compression--technology that downsizes huge high-definition video streams for eventual reconstitution on your screen--is responsible for a drop in quality.

Such charges--aimed mostly at the two biggest cable providers, Comcast and Time Warner--have been echoing around the blogosphere in the wake of reports about new compression algorithms. Contributing to the debate: An AVS Forum member's tests showed that at least ten HD networks were more compressed on Comcast than on Verizon's fiber-optic-cable-based FiOS service.

While service providers insist that quality remains a high priority, some experts say competition has made channel quantity, not quality, the top priority.

It's no secret that most digital TV is compressed and decompressed--in some cases several times--not just by cable or satellite services and over-the-air broadcasters but also by the video cameras that create the programs and the network satellite systems that deliver them to distributors. Compression happens, too, in trucks, control rooms, cable headends, and other waystations along the signal's path to your screen. The telltale signs of overcompression include tiling, little colored blocks, and "mosquito noise," which looks like flaring fireflies. The crispness of the picture can suffer, too.

Compressing huge HDTV video streams, however, allows carriers to deliver more of them. "Everyone's really fighting the same issue--limited bandwidth--[but] their offerings are more attractive if they give more channels," says Peter Symes, director of standards and engineering for the Society of Motion Picture and Television Engineers. "There are big arguments in the broadcasting community about whether you should use virtually the whole of the 19.2 megabits you get for a single HD channel to deliver really good HD, or whether by using other standards or more compression you can get away with a high-definition [signal] and one or two standard-definition [signals] or maybe sell part of it for data services."

Currently, quality is "minor to a vast majority of the viewing public, because the vast majority...doesn't have very big TV screens," HDTV consultant Peter Putman notes.

But those viewers who do are starting to notice, including AVS Forum member Ken Fowler of Arlington, Virginia, a self-described audio-video enthusiast whoposted the results of his Comcast-FiOS comparison.

Fowler had dropped Comcast for FiOS, but renewed his Comcast service (while retaining FiOS) in order to get Washington Nationals games in HD, and he began noticing quality differences between the two services. Some of the Comcast channels, he says, "didn't have the same pop, the same level of contrast, and there was a lot more blurring during movement."

So Fowler began recording the same shows on both FiOS and Comcast with his TiVo; he then downloaded the files to a computer and calculated the bitrates based on file size. The differences ran from just 0.7 percent more compression on Comcast for HBO HD to a whopping 38.5 percent for Discovery HD Theater.

More-Efficient Compression?

Comcast acknowledges that it recently implemented additional compression of selected HD networks, but contends that its improved compression technology allows it to transmit three channels in the same bandwidth in which two were transmitted previously, without a loss of quality. Comcast's spokesperson adds that many comments about Fowler's AVS Forum post recognize that "our ongoing tweaking, if you will, and adjustments" are improving image quality.

Comcast isn't alone in looking to squeeze more HD into its cables. A Time Warner Cable spokesperson says that company is testing new increased-compression technology as well. On the satellite side, DirecTV and Dish Network are switching to a "more advanced compression algorithm," Putman says. Verizon FiOS, however, applies no additional compression to the network signals that it receives, a spokesperson says.

The HD broadcast format that a network uses can make a difference in the compression's impact. ABC and Fox are among those that use a progressive-scan format (720p), which Putman and other experts say tolerates compression slightly better than the interlaced (1080i) format used by CBS, NBC, PBS, and others.

For consumers, the best HD experience will be with Blu-ray Disc content on a player hooked up to a display with an HDMI connector, which transmits uncompressed digital streams. "That's going to be the benchmark," says Symes.

If you're shopping for an HD service, Symes adds, "it's fairly a no-brainer: If you have FiOS or [AT&T's] U-Verse available, that's probably the way to go." Beyond that, so much local variability exists among competing cable and satellite services, he says, that the best idea is to ask friends in your area about their satisfaction levels.

But if you have an HD picture quality problem that you think is the result of overcompression, the best thing to do is to call your provider. Symes and Putman agree that overcompression and lowered quality will become an industry issue only when buyers who trade up to the biggest, highest-resolution screens notice and complain.

Comcrap is the motherfucking antichrist.

Originally Posted by Robert D.

isn't that what everyone wants from new technologies? get real, it does not work that way.

Wait wait, what are you directly responding to? I can list a shit load of devices that do a shit load more than what they used to using less energy all while doing it occupying a less space.

I was late to the party here, but I know a little about this. So rather then comment on individual posts, I will say my piece.

Plasma technology has gone about as far as it can go. The absolute finest plasma is the Pioneer Elite Kuro (and widely regarded as the finest TV on earth bar none), and Pioneer has ceased production (word on the street is that Panasonic is buying this technology from Pioneer).

That said, I have a current Panasonic G10, 50" that absolutely blows away any LCD panel. Be it 60 Hz, 120 Hz, or 240 Hz. What you need to understand is that LCD's have a refresh rate. Be it 20 ms or 4 ms, it has to respond. What is the refresh rate for a plasma? uh... howabout "0".

In IMO at this point in time. LCD's have a 'crisper' image and better sharpness, and better whites. But plasma's have MUCH deeper blacks and detail, rich natural colors, no 'motion blur' (sorry even 240 Hz sets have it), and super wide off axis viewing. You ever notice how all you have to do is stand up and the LCD starts to get gray?

I will say that in the future OLED technology looks like it may leave plasma in the dust. It does not require a backlight, and the blacks are awesome. At this point the Sony technology has only produced a 27" monitor, but you can rest assured Sony will get this up to a 50" screen in the next couple of years.

Oh, and btw I have used both Comcast and FiOS.

FiOS hands down. Honestly in my case, I did not notice that much of a difference in PQ, but FiOS gives so much more HD content.

I used to wonder why the major news networks did not broadcast in HD (CNN, MSNBC, Fox).... they DO! Comcrap just doesn't give it to you. I also had the NFL Network, and BigTen Network in SD>>>> FiOS shows those in HD.

Comcrap sucks!