Scopes contain a code identified as a bible verse...

**Curt James** · 01-21-2010, 06:08 PM

Listen to a talk radio program on AM radio during my commute home. Last night and tonight again, there was a guy on the one show crying about a code that was engraved on a scope that was sold to the U.S. military.

I'm not especially religious, but I'd love to punch the crybaby in the face. It's a private company. The military chose to purchase their product. It has an abbreviation for a Christian bible verse engraved on it. So what?

Buy it or don't buy it.

The crybaby stated his opinion that by having the code on the scope that it fans the flames of anti-Islam sentiment and makes our position in Afghanistan and Iraq into a holy war.

No.

It just makes it a scope manufactured by a Christian company.

January 19, 2010
Kris Alingod - AHN Contributor
Washington, D.C., United States (AHN) - A Michigan-based company that manufactures scopes for firearms is under scrutiny because a report has found that it includes New Testament verses in its products, some of which are used by the U.S. military.

According to ABC, Trijicon has contracts with the Defense Department, including a $660 million multi-year contract to provide 800,000 optical sighting devices to the Marine Corps. The sights contain Bible verses that include JN8:12, which refers to John 8:12, "Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."

The devices from the company are used by American troops in the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, as well as to train Afghan soldiers ahead of the scheduled troop drawdown in 2011. According to details of one $33 million contract approved last year by the Defense Department, Trijicon is supplying the Marine Corps. with a device, called M240B medium machine gun day optic, that helps a machine gunner recognize and identify a target.
The U.S. military prohibits proselytizing of any faith in Afghanistan or Iraq, according to ABC. The Army and the Marine Corps said in the report that they were unaware of the Bible codes.

The company told ABC that the New Testament codes are included in the scopes being sold to the U.S. military, and that concerns about the verses were being raised by a group that is not Christian.

Trijicon's website says its vision is, "Guided by our values, we endeavor to have our products used wherever precision aiming solutions are required to protect individual freedom." It adds, "We believe that America is great when its people are good. This goodness has been based on biblical standards throughout our history and we will strive to follow those morals."

The issue has ignited debate, with a commenter named Michael Martin on the online Christian news magazine, Worldmag.com, saying, "There is no separation of church and state issue here. The company can put whatever they want to on their product. The government is free to buy, or not buy the product as is."

From Firearm Scope Maker's Bible Verses On Products Used By Military Ignite Controversy | AHN

**bio-chem** · 01-21-2010, 11:10 PM

like that is stoking the flames of radical islam? radical islam has declared a jihad against Christianity. the sooner Christians realize that they have declared war on us and we stop trying to take them out for an ice cream cone over asinine perceived insults the better off we will be.

**danzik17** · 01-21-2010, 11:31 PM

Voted to file them off but that's not what I really think. It's improper to be mixing religion and the military because the military is an extension of the government.

Separation of church and state. The slippery slope idea may be overused, but it always begins with something small and insignificant and grows until the problem is massive, just like a snowball rolling down a hill.

I'd vote to levee fines against the company if this was their own doing. If it was the company acting on their own, they must provide replacement scopes for all affected weapons. All future weapons must not have these quotes.

**Fetusaurus Rex** · 01-21-2010, 11:40 PM

this guy sounds bitch made

**bio-chem** · 01-22-2010, 12:43 AM

Originally Posted by danzik17

Voted to file them off but that's not what I really think. It's improper to be mixing religion and the military because the military is an extension of the government.

Separation of church and state. The slippery slope idea may be overused, but it always begins with something small and insignificant and grows until the problem is massive, just like a snowball rolling down a hill.

I'd vote to levee fines against the company if this was their own doing. If it was the company acting on their own, they must provide replacement scopes for all affected weapons. All future weapons must not have these quotes.

as part of the serial number the scopes would have jn3:16 or something. The company broke no laws. to fine them would be absurd. this is an independent company that has a government contract to supply the military with optics. the company does the same thing with the civilian equipment. there is no law that states you can't place code in your serial numbers for an item.

**maniclion** · 01-22-2010, 02:58 AM

Who gives a shit it's not like they are handing out Bibles to decipher the codes with, and it's not etched on the glass obstructing the view, the soldiers don't peer inside and see the lords prayer magically appear before their eyes like that cross in the commercials...for gods sake there are Chaplains in the military. Are our soldiers supposed to go without equipment they need because a group of people got a hairball up their ass?

**brk_nemesis** · 01-22-2010, 08:32 AM

hmm I wondered why my Trijicons shoot so damn well,.... aha!

On a side note, Trijicon has been doing this for decades, and its nothing new. The contracts were put out long after Trigy started doing this. And besides..... the only way it could "affect Islamic radicals" in any negative way would be if it were internationally publicized on the news. Oh wait,.... it already has. Thank you media!

Who the fuck cares. Its not like the "opinion of America" among the terrorists has just dropped significantly because of this. Last I checked, they like many others have wanted Americans dead for quite a while now.

**DaMayor** · 01-22-2010, 09:07 AM

Just another trivial issue for anti-religious types to get their collective thong(s) in a knot. You don't see churched types going after caulking manufacturers, or energy drink companies because they're labeled 'Red Devil'.

**Big Smoothy** · 01-22-2010, 09:16 AM

A particular religious influence or bias should stay out of the military as well as the contractors.

It's the LAW.

Also, these guns are paid for by taxpayers.

**bio-chem** · 01-22-2010, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by Big Smoothy

A particular religious influence or bias should stay out of the military as well as the contractors.

It's the LAW.

Also, these guns are paid for by taxpayers.

you want to tell me what law says government contractors are not allowed to put jn3:16 in their serial numbers? there is no such law and any interpretation is such a stretch as to be comical. This is a PR issue because the idiot media made it one. this is not a legality issue.

like it's been stated there are chaplains in the military. that doesn't break any laws

**DaMayor** · 01-22-2010, 09:54 AM

It's all about extremism and/or hypersensitivity to nonsensical issues. There are people of all sorts of belief system(s) that carry things way too far for no good reason, thereby giving their 'group' a bad name. Like I said before....trivial. Seems like the gentleman should have been more concerned with the well being of our troops, and not what was written on their scopes.

**bigmoe65** · 01-22-2010, 10:48 AM

Im gonna check my scope tonight.

**brk_nemesis** · 01-22-2010, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by bio-chem

you want to tell me what law says government contractors are not allowed to put jn3:16 in their serial numbers? there is no such law and any interpretation is such a stretch as to be comical. This is a PR issue because the idiot media made it one. this is not a legality issue.

like it's been stated there are chaplains in the military. that doesn't break any laws

Exactly,... its in the serial numbers. Its not like it says "him without sin, cast the first stone, and remember Jesus loves you," on the receivers or anything.

Guess that means we need to change our grooming standards in the military while we are at it. I mean, shaved heads, and clean shaven is so western-European- Christianity style and very bias. We should leave it open to grow out beards if we so chose, so those with middle eastern descent can follow their traditions and be closer to islam,.....

oh plz.

**bio-chem** · 01-22-2010, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by brk_nemesis

Exactly,... its in the serial numbers. Its not like it says "him without sin, cast the first stone, and remember Jesus loves you," on the receivers or anything.

Guess that means we need to change our grooming standards in the military while we are at it. I mean, shaved heads, and clean shaven is so western-European- Christianity style and very bias. We should leave it open to grow out beards if we so chose, so those with middle eastern descent can follow their traditions and be closer to islam,.....

oh plz.

yup +1

**Little Wing** · 01-22-2010, 11:12 AM

i think the person making the guns has a right to maybe even say a prayer with each one even if not religious they could hope the tool would be used for only a just cause. if it offends the individual soldier carrying it he should be able to file it off. are soldiers prohibited from wearing a cross, having a religious tattoo, a peace symbol? are they forced to wear a cross?

what if the serial number had to contain the makers phone number and it seemed significant by mere coincidence?

the last 3 digits in my phone number are 666 btw.

**Little Wing** · 01-22-2010, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by bigmoe65

Im gonna check my scope tonight.

is it just me or does that sound dirty?

**bio-chem** · 01-22-2010, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by Little Wing

the last 3 digits in my phone number are 666 btw.

and the first seven?

**Little Wing** · 01-22-2010, 11:36 AM

no sixes

**bigmoe65** · 01-22-2010, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by Little Wing

is it just me or does that sound dirty?

Yes I wasnt talking about a gun scope.

**danzik17** · 01-22-2010, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by brk_nemesis

Exactly,... its in the serial numbers. Its not like it says "him without sin, cast the first stone, and remember Jesus loves you," on the receivers or anything.

Guess that means we need to change our grooming standards in the military while we are at it. I mean, shaved heads, and clean shaven is so western-European- Christianity style and very bias. We should leave it open to grow out beards if we so chose, so those with middle eastern descent can follow their traditions and be closer to islam,.....

oh plz.

Actually you used to be able to do just that. I think it was in world war 1 that we started to do that so gasmasks would have an airtight fit.

**maniclion** · 01-22-2010, 06:03 PM

You'll see a lot of Special Forces with full beards in that specific region of the world where a high and tight and smooth cheeks will make you stick out like a pair of nice tits....

**brk_nemesis** · 01-23-2010, 12:27 AM

Originally Posted by maniclion

You'll see a lot of Special Forces with full beards in that specific region of the world where a high and tight and smooth cheeks will make you stick out like a pair of nice tits....

yup yup,.. members of special operations have modified grooming standards. It is most apparent with Army SF aka Green Berets.

**Big Smoothy** · 01-23-2010, 09:16 AM

Originally Posted by bio-chem

you want to tell me what law says government contractors are not allowed to put jn3:16 in their serial numbers? there is no such law and any interpretation is such a stretch as to be comical. This is a PR issue because the idiot media made it one. this is not a legality issue.

I was wrong. You are, correct, bio-chem.

I admit my errors.

Also, "god" is on the currency.

I do think that religion and gov (and gov contracts) should be separate.

Same with Islamic, Hindu, Jewish, quotes/saying/scriptures/passages.

**DOMS** · 01-23-2010, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by bio-chem

you want to tell me what law says government contractors are not allowed to put jn3:16 in their serial numbers? there is no such law and any interpretation is such a stretch as to be comical. This is a PR issue because the idiot media made it one. this is not a legality issue.

like it's been stated there are chaplains in the military. that doesn't break any laws

Since so many people are getting butt hurt over the religious reference, I have two alternate suggestions:

1) I do NOT ♥ camels.
2) I'd fly 6000 miles to smoke a camel.

There...happy now?

**bio-chem** · 01-23-2010, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by Big Smoothy

I was wrong. You are, correct, bio-chem.

I admit my errors.

Also, "god" is on the currency.

If this is sarcasm then i'll leave it alone, no need to comment. If this is serious then I'm speechless other than saying my respect for you just went up. this is a side of you I'm not used to.

Originally Posted by Big Smoothy

I do think that religion and gov (and gov contracts) should be separate.

Same with Islamic, Hindu, Jewish, quotes/saying/scriptures/passages.

Thats a valid opinion and if the government would have said after finding out about the code, "from now on we would like that serial numbers be code free" I would have supported the decision. what i don't support is the media making a mountain out of a mole hill

**KelJu** · 01-23-2010, 05:10 PM

I think a mountain is being made out of a mole hill here. Quite frankly, I don't care as long as the military didn't request the bible verses to be put on there, which I am certain they didn't.

Anyway, why am I the only one laughing at they irony. The scope manufacturer should have gone one more step and put "they shalt not kill" on the scope.

@ putting christian bible verses on an instrument of death.

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