Thread: France moves closer to banning women from wearing veils in public

Originally Posted by doctormomen

Ask your president,why he chose the Egyptian scientist ,Prof.Ahmed Zowail in His Scientific Advisory Committee.He will probably answer you

moving from Egypt to the United States to complete his PhD at the University of Pennsylvania with advisor Dr. Robin Hochstrasser. He completed a post-doctoral fellowship at the University of California, Berkeley.

Egypt didn't due shit. read my post. i said science coming out of muslim countries. this man was educated here in the united states. he didn't get his phd in a muslim country. successful muslims on the world stage get their education outside of their muslim homelands. why is that? because muslim countries don't provide anything for educational opportunities. for that you have to come to the good old US of A

and I'm proud to be an American. im sure ahmed zowail is as well.

Originally Posted by doctormomen

yes man,you can call me Doc,im getting my degree in dentistry next July.thnx for your opinion and if you like to cope up with me in messenger or such,im up to this. im sure we r gonna discuss this points in the best way,so we can understand each other better and better,coz the guys here just got me in a fight.

Oh, sorry I can't befriend you, you are Muslim and a dentist thats like a trillion times more likely you will commit suicide, I can't handle a burden like that.....

Originally Posted by bandaidwoman

I hate to break this to you but a majority of department heads at most American medical schools ( they have to have incredible backgrounds in science and research) are mostly foreigners, quite a few of them muslim or middle eastern. Most Americans no longer have the "scientific" know how to be leaders in the medical research area. We need to thank Indians, Asians and Middle easterners

I was privliged to have worked with this guy when he was at emory
Kamal F. Badr, M.D., ASCI, AAP

Adjunct Professor of Medicine, Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore, MD, USA
fellowship in nephrology at the Brigham and Women’s and Children’s Hospitals, Harvard Medical School. He joined the faculty at Vanderbilt University as assistant and then associate professor (1986 to 1992). Then he moved to Emory University as professor of medicine, nephrology section chief at the Atlanta VA Hospital, and director of the Center for Glomerulonephritis (1992 to 2000). . He was elected to the American Society for Clinical Investigation in 1991 and the Association of American Physicians in 2001. Dr. Badr received NIH and other grant support from 1986 to 2000 and holds three U.S. patents. His main interests are in renal microcirculatory physiology, glomerular inflammation, and renal vascular disease. He has published 85 original manuscripts, 42 solicited papers and reviews, and 27 book chapters.


Anyway, start reading medical journals and look at the primary authors, many are no longer americans, quite a few of them are from the Middle East. You can be reassured that much of the ground breaking medical research in this country rides on the backs of foreigners, many of whom are from the Middle East . My short stint as a chemist I met with brillant male and female chemists from Iran, Turkey, Lebanaon and Syria.


Here at Emory University a majority of the avante garde neurosurgeons are from the Middle East.

As a chemist, I'll tell you that some of the best petroleum chemistry breakthroughs are not surprisingly, being done by middle eastern chemists.

Where was Kamal F. Badr educated? I looked it up, and I couldn't find it amongst the ridiculous amount of credentials and publications, which is a good thing.

Anywho, I just typed out a page of crap and deleted it all after realizing it is a waste of time. Nobody here is really listening, and almost everyone in this thread is completely full of their own brand of shit and personal biases anyway.


The short version goes like this. Religion doesn't produce science. Science happens despite religion. Anyone that tries to use science to back their spiritual beliefs lose all credibility, and will be flamed relentlessly.

Islam is crap. Muslim scientist are achieving great things because they were blessed with determination and a beautiful mind that can sort through data and see eloquent solutions to problems. They are not archiving great things because they are Muslim.

The reason science gets shit done is because you have to check your baggage at the door. In the lab, NOTHING FUCKING MATTERS BUT THE DATA!!!

Allah, Buddha, Jesus Christ... none of them factor into an equation.

I would also like to add that anytime I see people trying to blend science and religion, I want to punch them in the fucking face.


Fuck me in the ass, I need a joint.

Originally Posted by KelJu

I would also like to add that anytime I see people trying to blend science and religion, I want to punch them in the fucking face.

Including the religious-backed hospitals in which they not only heal the sick for research the future? Yeah, I could see that...

Originally Posted by KelJu

The reason science gets shit done is because you have to check your baggage at the door. In the lab, NOTHING FUCKING MATTERS BUT THE DATA!!!

This is also not entirely true. Witness the pro-global warming yutzes that fixed the data. And that's only one example.

Originally Posted by DOMS

Including the religious-backed hospitals in which they not only heal the sick for research the future? Yeah, I could see that...

I don't understand what you are trying to imply? I am talking about people trying use science to illustrate why their immaterial ideas and beliefs are somehow substantiated by science or scientist.

Where funding comes from is irrelevant. Socialist countries fund science. Dictatorships fund science. China isn't all that far behind the US in budgeting for scientific research. That doesn't mean communism and science are related, and it sure as hell doesn't mean whoever funds science the most are right, and everyone else is wrong.

Originally Posted by DOMS

This is also not entirely true. Witness the pro-global warming yutzes that fixed the data. And that's only one example.

Aw Jesus Christ, dude. I never said it was perfect. If humans have a hand in something, then it can't be perfect. If you have an agenda, you have failed before you ever did the first experiment.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to KelJu again.

Originally Posted by KelJu

Where was Kamal F. Badr educated? I looked it up, and I couldn't find it amongst the ridiculous amount of credentials and publications, which is a good thing.

Anywho, I just typed out a page of crap and deleted it all after realizing it is a waste of time. Nobody here is really listening, and almost everyone in this thread is completely full of their own brand of shit and personal biases anyway.


The short version goes like this. Religion doesn't produce science. Science happens despite religion. Anyone that tries to use science to back their spiritual beliefs lose all credibility, and will be flamed relentlessly.

Islam is crap. Muslim scientist are achieving great things because they were blessed with determination and a beautiful mind that can sort through data and see eloquent solutions to problems. They are not archiving great things because they are Muslim.

The reason science gets shit done is because you have to check your baggage at the door. In the lab, NOTHING FUCKING MATTERS BUT THE DATA!!!

Allah, Buddha, Jesus Christ... none of them factor into an equation.

I disagree, many of these religious scientists could be motivated by a belief that gaining knowledge will help man become closer to their god, gods, creator, Grand Pubbah or whatever

Originally Posted by maniclion

I disagree, many of these religious scientists could be motivated by a belief that gaining knowledge will help man become closer to their god, gods, creator, Grand Pubbah or whatever

So what about the atheist scientist? Are they motivated to see knowledge by their belief in nothing?

Originally Posted by KelJu

I don't understand what you are trying to imply? I am talking about people trying use science to illustrate why their immaterial ideas and beliefs are somehow substantiated by science or scientist.

Oh, so the only reason religious people would ever pursue a scientific endeavor is to prove there is a god?

Bullshit. Absolute fucking bullshit.

Many religious people get interested in science because they see the universe as God's work and want to know more about it.

Originally Posted by KelJu

Where funding comes from is irrelevant. Socialist countries fund science. Dictatorships fund science. China isn't all that far behind the US in budgeting for scientific research. That doesn't mean communism and science are related, and it sure as hell doesn't mean whoever funds science the most are right, and everyone else is wrong.

I wasn't talking about just funding.

Oh, and while you're on your shit-on-religion-because-I'm-an-theist kick, I'd like to point out that the biggest location of killing in the world right now, Sub-Saharan Africa, is done primarily by atheists. Not having religion doesn't make you a good person.

Originally Posted by KelJu

Aw Jesus Christ, dude. I never said it was perfect. If humans have a hand in something, then it can't be perfect. If you have an agenda, you have failed before you ever did the first experiment.

Science in this day and age is pathetic compared to what it used to be. These days it's largely motivated by money or political concerns. I've already pointed out the shit science of global warming. Add to that the corporate backers of research, who often have goal for the "science" before the first beaker is full.

So yeah, humans are fallible, but to say that only religious people have agendas is a joke.

Originally Posted by DOMS

Oh, so the only reason religious people would ever pursue a scientific endeavor is to prove there is a god?

Bullshit. Absolute fucking bullshit.

Many religious people get interested in science because they see the universe as God's work and want to know more about it.



I wasn't talking about just funding.

Oh, and while you're on your shit-on-religion-because-I'm-an-theist kick, I'd like to point out that the biggest location of killing in the world right now, Sub-Saharan Africa, is done primarily by atheists. Not having religion doesn't make you a good person.




Science in this day and age is pathetic compared to what it used to be. These days it's largely motivated by money or political concerns. I've already pointed out the shit science of global warming. Add to that the corporate backers of research, who often have goal for the "science" before the first beaker is full.

So yeah, humans are fallible, but to say that only religious people have agendas is a joke.

Oh fuck me, I give up.
I'll tell you what, you go argue with things I never said, and I will go play disc golf.

Originally Posted by DOMS

As for where science comes from: the original point was not that most scientific discoveries in modern times have come from the US. It was that they're not coming from the Middle East. What you're trying to do is called "spin." And, just for fun, I went to a random site that covers science. I checked the leading recent discoveries. They're mostly from the US and western countries. Also, just because someone has a foriegn sounding name doesn't mean they're not American (Barack Hussein Obama, duh?). Even if they aren't originally from America, I'm expected to believe that they got an education in another country and then came here and went right to the top?

Short version: you've shown how you adore Muslims (and not Christians) and anything not USA. I happen to be both American and Christian. If there's one thing that I don't tolerate anymore, it's dumping on some aspect of who I am.]

first of all you did not read my post, i said most of my patients who were gay were white for some reason, My patient population is mostly white since the whites in this city like asian docs. Somehow, your logic that comment now makes my affilliation in the scientific and medical research field erroneous is just silly logic.


I have news for you, some middle eastern universities rival many of the american universitis.Since I keep up with medical literature and faculties I know that most are foreign born and educated and many come here to do their post doctoral work. ( Turkey and lebanon like asians master calculus in their early years in high school)

I was only one of two americans who graduated from my university with a chemistry degree. Why dont you walk into any undergrad physica and chemistry class and see how many are americans \? These foreignn born scientists plunder our education resources and now are taking their know how back to their countries. China is kickin our asses with stem cell biotechnology. Lebanese neursosurgeons are some of the leading surgeons in the world in dealing with head trauma. The chief resident at EMory in neurosurgery was educated at the Lebanese university of medicine and bought with him a slew of new techniques that was appled to our grady patients.

Why dont you look up how 911 has resulted in severe shortage of research scientists for american companies becasue we are limiting visas to foreigners,and most americans can't fill these research slots?

As for pattents and inventions, if the scientist ( many who are not americans) work for an american company ,that company gets the credit. Trust me, it was why I quit my job as a inorganic chemist. I came up with a very efficient means of two dimensional gel electropheresis but the european drug company got the credit.

Thus, asian, middle east and russian and southasians are vital to our research community.

I don't adore muslims or christians I actually adore buddists. As an athiest I respec the fact that They realize god or gods are just part of the cultural baggage of humans and have risen above that and believe in saving themselves. I am trying to educate everyone here that the muslim religion like the christian have their good and bad. I have grown up in both cultures , in enlightened aspects of both.

why don't you stop your ad hominem attacks?
Nowhere have i combined science with religion that is doctorman's falllacy. Like keju, I find that offensive.

But humans are psycologically weak, even great scientists ( Look at Faraday the father of electromagnetism) need a God or divine to satisfy their anxiety about the world. These scientists are just as easily Muslim,Chrisitan, Mormon, Hindus etc.

To say that the muslim religion does does not produce discoveries is as erroneous as saying hinduism prevented scientifci advancements ( when for the longest time India had a poor infrastructure for developing technology and science) .

Americans are bigotted enough to concede that hindu Indians can be great scientists but not Middle easterners?

Originally Posted by KelJu

Where was Kamal F. Badr educated?

Dr. Badr received his MD from the American University of Beirut (AUB) and completed Residency training at the AUB-Medical Center followed by a 4-year fellowship in nephrology at the Brigham and Women’s and Children’s Hospitals, Harvard Medical School.

harvard accepted him right out of Beirut for a fellowship since they have a world class top notch medical program!

such is the arrogance of americans who can't believe a middle eastern country could have such a top notch medical facilty.

Islam is crap. Muslim scientist are achieving great things because they were blessed with determination and a beautiful mind that can sort through data and see eloquent solutions to problems. They are not archiving great things because they are Muslim.

The reason science gets shit done is because you have to check your baggage at the door. In the lab, NOTHING FUCKING MATTERS BUT THE DATA!!!

Allah, Buddha, Jesus Christ... none of them factor into an equation.

I think we can agree that they are true scientists in that they have allowed their logic and scientific reasoning to supplant their fairy tale beliefs in a god or afterlife.

However, only when I became a physician did I see the usefulness of religion in facing imminent death. The few athiests I had with endstage cancers had a much less peaceful acceptance of the in evitable, since there is nothing to look forward to after a long painful struggle with a overpowering cancer. It made it much easier for me when they believed they were going to some apple pie in the sky. Oh well, such is human psycology.

Originally Posted by DOMS

This is also not entirely true. Witness the pro-global warming yutzes that fixed the data. And that's only one example.

The key difference is science always questions itself and the validity of its data, relgion does not. Sometimes science goes astray, but they do not stick steadfast to their dogmas.

Look at the whole field of physics where we now know newtonian physics is antiquated and general relativity and quantum physics ( space time curvature and probablistic existence is the true face of nature)

Keep harping on the political motivations of global warming but basic bench science into the nature of the universe is healthy and strong ...and mostly by non americans using american resources...sigh.

In my prior field, drug development research will be mostly manned by foreign trained pharmacologists etc.

Looming Shortage In Pharmacy School Faculty // Pharmalot

a rising number of new pharmacy schools, and foreign students who are educated in the US then return home, according to the American Association of Pharmaceutical Scientists

Don't be surprised when other countries dominating the drug development field in the next twenty years.

By the way Ankara University rivals Berkley etc in producing some top notch chemists.http://acikarsiv.ankara.edu.tr/index.php?dil=eng

you've shown how you adore Muslims (and not Christians) and anything not USA. I happen to be both American and Christian. If there's one thing that I don't tolerate anymore, it's dumping on some aspect of who I am.

Just becasue I point out some good aspects of another religion not your own does not mean I am antichristian. I am married to a devout southern baptist and I respect his beliefs profoundly or we would not be married happily 11 years.

Actually I am very proud to be an american, since its constitution respects my athiestic philosophy as much as the next christian or mormon etc. I just find that its citizens are not as tolerant when it comes to non christian beliefs.
of course it is tainted by the fact that i do live in the south.

By the way, just because I did not resort to ad hominum attacks against doctorman doesn't mean i agree whith some of his ludicrious propositions. I have like christianity, seen the beautiful face of his religion. But that does not mean I endorse its truth over christianitiy or any relgion for that matter.

Originally Posted by KelJu

Where was Kamal F. Badr educated? I looked it up, and I couldn't find it amongst the ridiculous amount of credentials and publications, which is a good thing.

Anywho, I just typed out a page of crap and deleted it all after realizing it is a waste of time. Nobody here is really listening, and almost everyone in this thread is completely full of their own brand of shit and personal biases anyway.


The short version goes like this. Religion doesn't produce science. Science happens despite religion. Anyone that tries to use science to back their spiritual beliefs lose all credibility, and will be flamed relentlessly.

Islam is crap. Muslim scientist are achieving great things because they were blessed with determination and a beautiful mind that can sort through data and see eloquent solutions to problems. They are not archiving great things because they are Muslim.

The reason science gets shit done is because you have to check your baggage at the door. In the lab, NOTHING FUCKING MATTERS BUT THE DATA!!!

Allah, Buddha, Jesus Christ... none of them factor into an equation.

I agree with so much of this post.

My concern is that science right now is politically controlled. both sides right now controls science through money, and often times the scientists themselves are going into the lab with biases. science for the sake of science I love. problem is I find that to be dieing right now.

Originally Posted by brk_nemesis

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to KelJu again.

I got the same damn message

Originally Posted by bio-chem

I agree with so much of this post.

My concern is that science right now is politically controlled. both sides right now controls science through money, and often times the scientists themselves are going into the lab with biases. science for the sake of science I love. problem is I find that to be dieing right now.

Agreed. I absolutely love reading and seeing the crazy things that real science discovers. It's such a shame that the youth (in general) has such a small amount if interest in it.

How amazing would it be if we could live during the time of a brilliant scientist like Tesla.

Originally Posted by bio-chem

I got the same damn message

????

I am confused.

Originally Posted by KelJu

????

I am confused.

It means that they've recently given you positive reps and want to give you more, but the system makes them wait to do so.

Where's you science now, Mr. Science Man?!

Originally Posted by bio-chem

I agree with so much of this post.

My concern is that science right now is politically controlled. both sides right now controls science through money, and often times the scientists themselves are going into the lab with biases. science for the sake of science I love. problem is I find that to be dieing right now.

It depends on what branch of science you are talking about. The sciences that are looking for answers to how we should behave will always be corrupted by people. In those situations, real science isn't taking place. It is a mock science intended to deceive and control.

The other sciences will flourish. New technologies like medicine, biology, physics, chemistry, engineering, ect, those sciences will continue to reveal awesome and beautiful things about our universe, and/or improve our lives.

Originally Posted by DOMS

It means that they've recently given you positive reps and want to give you more, but the system makes them wait to do so.

Where's you science now, Mr. Science Man?!

Gotcha, I didn't know what they were talking about.
It is touching it know people actually approve of my babble.

Originally Posted by KelJu

It depends on what branch of science you are talking about. The sciences that are looking for answers to how we should behave will always be corrupted by people. In those situations, real science isn't taking place. It is a mock science intended to deceive and control.

The other sciences will flourish. New technologies like medicine, biology, physics, chemistry, engineering, ect, those sciences will continue to reveal awesome and beautiful things about our universe, and/or improve our lives.

awesome, you articulate things a lot better than I could. It's too bad people are just no longer interested in science.I am a guest chemistry lecturer two days a month at my daughters private school so I can try to show the new generation how exciting this field can be. All hope may not be lost.

Originally Posted by KelJu

So what about the atheist scientist? Are they motivated to see knowledge by their belief in nothing?

Come on man, don't be like that you know as well as I that people have their own motivations. Some may be scientific purists in it just for science, some for better understanding of their god, some to research a cure for cancer that took their mother at a young age, some just because everyone told them they were brilliant, some scientists may not be motivated at all and were forced by their parents into the field, you know the endless possibilities....

Originally Posted by maniclion

Come on man, don't be like that you know as well as I that people have their own motivations. Some may be scientific purists in it just for science, some for better understanding of their god, some to research a cure for cancer that took their mother at a young age, some just because everyone told them they were brilliant, some scientists may not be motivated at all and were forced by their parents into the field, you know the endless possibilities....

Did I come across as a dick in my response? If so, I really do apologize.
I was becoming highly frustrated that nobody was understanding what I was trying to say.

I agree that religion is a lot of people's reason for trying to excel. There are plenty of reasons to motivate someone to go into the lab and come with with a solution to problems. Money, notoriety, pride, compassion, love, hate, religion, faith, and just the dopamine reward alone causes people to work hard to solve problems.

I wasn't implying at any point that religion is useless or isn't a primary motivator to some people to become scientist.

I was only saying that you can't use science to prove or disprove matters of faith. That one sentence could have saved me a lot of grief had I said it sooner.

Originally Posted by KelJu

I was only saying that you can't use science to prove or disprove matters of faith.

I had no idea this is what you meant. And it's a statement that I agree with.

Good thread guys, can't believe I've missed the bulk of this one.

Good read though. Props all round.