Thread: Can someone explain this Arizona Immigration law thing to me...

What is even crazier is that it isnt even really a new law. The immigration laws are already on the federal books, but Arizonas leaders didnt feel that the government was doing a good enough job, so they implemented their own state level law to protect their citizens and now they are being depicted as rednecks, rascists, and in a wonderful stretch of liberl rhetoric, nazis.

All of this for actually doing what a leader is SUPPOSED to do, by actually upholding the oaths taken while taking office.

If the law is just great. If it is unjust, then it should be abolished. But regardless it is a law and should be upheld.

Originally Posted by Doublebase

please. From what I understand they Arizona state law is now able to profile people that look like they are border jumpers. Am I on the right track? If so, then why is everyone against this? Why are the Phoenix Suns wearing Los Sons uniforms? I must be missing something.

Az law mirror federal law so whats the problem..70% of the state supports the law..they can pull you over only if you do something wrong..so a burnt light swerving..ect....the only ones that are against it are the one that are here unlawfully or they have something vested in the mexicans like gettig welfare bennies ..mexico get about 6 million from people working in AZ they send it back to thee familys in mexico and that just one state,

Originally Posted by jmorrison

What is even crazier is that it isnt even really a new law. The immigration laws are already on the federal books, but Arizonas leaders didnt feel that the government was doing a good enough job, so they implemented their own state level law to protect their citizens and now they are being depicted as rednecks, rascists, and in a wonderful stretch of liberl rhetoric, nazis.

All of this for actually doing what a leader is SUPPOSED to do, by actually upholding the oaths taken while taking office.

If the law is just great. If it is unjust, then it should be abolished. But regardless it is a law and should be upheld.

What LIBERALS compare people to NAZIS. Its a good thing Conservatives would never make such a comparison, EVER.

Originally Posted by suprfast

What LIBERALS compare people to NAZIS. Its a good thing Conservatives would never make such a comparison, EVER.

They never would maybe. lennon and i don't mean john....

Originally Posted by suprfast

What LIBERALS compare people to NAZIS. Its a good thing Conservatives would never make such a comparison, EVER.

What does that have to do with anything? I didn't once say anything supporting any sort of conservative view or conservatives in general. This is a simple argument, and has nothing whatsoever to do with party politics, so I have no idea why the liberal front has gotten behind this so staunchly.

1. It is a federal law.
2. The state government has a duty to uphold the law.
3. The federal government was subjectively not enforcing this law (as evidenced by their reaction to a state enacting their OWN law that is the same as the federal law.
4. People are flipping out because the states government did exactly not only what they SHOULD do, but as they are OBLIGATED to do.

Originally Posted by The Situation

Az law mirror federal law so whats the problem..70% of the state supports the law..they can pull you over only if you do something wrong..so a burnt light swerving..ect....the only ones that are against it are the one that are here unlawfully or they have something vested in the mexicans like gettig welfare bennies ..mexico get about 6 million from people working in AZ they send it back to thee familys in mexico and that just one state,

That's the pathetic thing. The Arizona law is a 100% duplicate of federal law, but because it's a state law now, Arizona can enforce it as it sees fit, and not at the whim of DC politicians that covert the (pathetic) latino vote.

So far, I've heard that the majority of Utah citizens want to duplicate the Arizona law. If you could see the damage that Mexicans have wrought on Utah, you'd understand why.

I'm hoping this will spread across the south-west. Then those bleeding heart states that call it racist can receive the illegals as they run to those states. I wonder how the residents of those states will feel about the law when the their state is overrun.

Originally Posted by DOMS

That's the pathetic thing. The Arizona law is a 100% duplicate of federal law, but because it's a state law now, Arizona can enforce it as it sees fit, and not at the whim of DC politicians that covert the (pathetic) latino vote.

So far, I've heard that the majority of Utah citizens want to duplicate the Arizona law. If you could see the damage that Mexicans have wrought on Utah, you'd understand why.

I'm hoping this will spread across the south-west. Then those bleeding heart states that call it racist can receive the illegals as they run to those states. I wonder how the residents of those states will feel about the law when the their state is overrun.

I live in a bleeding heart state. I say ship them to Venezuela.

Originally Posted by DOMS

That's the pathetic thing. The Arizona law is a 100% duplicate of federal law, but because it's a state law now, Arizona can enforce it as it sees fit, and not at the whim of DC politicians that covert the (pathetic) latino vote.

So far, I've heard that the majority of Utah citizens want to duplicate the Arizona law. If you could see the damage that Mexicans have wrought on Utah, you'd understand why.

I'm hoping this will spread across the south-west. Then those bleeding heart states that call it racist can receive the illegals as they run to those states. I wonder how the residents of those states will feel about the law when the their state is overrun.

i have a house down in AZ so i have seen first hand the damage that these people do when u walk out your front door and no one speaks english and just15 year beore everuone did that has too make you think what is going on.. shit like this happen in the early 80's from cuba..we don'tt need the trash fromover there.

Originally Posted by danzik17

I live in a bleeding heart state. I say ship them to Venezuela.

You've got me vote.

Originally Posted by The Situation

i have a house down in AZ so i have seen first hand the damage that these people do when u walk out your front door and no one speaks english and just15 year beore everuone did that has too make you think what is going on.. shit like this happen in the early 80's from cuba..we don'tt need the trash fromover there.

I can do you one better. I visited Utah back in '93. I stayed there for six months. Then I lived there from 1999 to 2007. Back in '93, there were almost no Mexicans. Now, they're all over the place. The crime, especially the violent sort, has sky-rocketed.

Back then, there was almost no graffiti, and what there was of it, went like "Jeff" or "Skateboarding is not a crime." Now, it's gangs signs, and it's all over the place.

Down town is where the more expensive houses are, so it's almost still 100% non-Mexican. The only place that you'll see graffiti is the road up to the hospital, and it's all over the place. You're going to see someone in the hospital for something serious, but if you're a Mexican, you've still gotta take time out to fuck up someone else's property.

So I've seen the absolute destruction that Mexicans bring to America, and it's why I hate them and want them out.

if they'd just stay in shitwater Mexico, I wouldn't give a rat's ass about them, but they have to insist on coming here and ruining everything they touch.

My whole point still rests in that while I am not shocked at the public outcry, I am thoroughly shocked at the REASON for the outcry. The people of our nation SHOULD be pissed off. They should be pissed that the federal government is making its states enforce federal laws through inaction. Why do we pay FIC then? Why not just SIC?

Originally Posted by jmorrison

My whole point still rests in that while I am not shocked at the public outcry, I am thoroughly shocked at the REASON for the outcry. The people of our nation SHOULD be pissed off. They should be pissed that the federal government is making its states enforce federal laws through inaction. Why do we pay FIC then? Why not just SIC?

They do because, if they don't, then they're labelled racist. Also, a lot of those that do complain are Mexicans that have already made it over here; so they don't count.

Originally Posted by Doublebase

please. From what I understand they Arizona state law is now able to profile people that look like they are border jumpers. Am I on the right track? If so, then why is everyone against this? Why are the Phoenix Suns wearing Los Sons uniforms? I must be missing something.

The "outrage" ironically, is by people who don't even live in Arizona.

Arizona has faced many fiscal problems and crime problems because of ILLegals.

Phoenix is now the kidnap capital of the nation and many analysts believe over 50% of the illegal marijuana is coming from Mexico through Phoenix.

As for profiling, it's common sense. I don't think ILLegal Asian are crossing the Arizona border. Of course, profiling is one means.

Originally Posted by Big Smoothy

I don't think ILLegal Asian are crossing the Arizona border.

All the more reason for them to take that route.

It's a LAW! Plain and simple. If you're here illegally, you have no say in the matter. Get out. Are you in our country illegally?

I'd go door to door. It ain't profiling if you ask everybody.

Phoenix to Wear 'Los Sons' Jerseys to Protest Law - Arizona's NBA team doesn't like immigration changes

Its a protest for the legislation...they don't want to destroy their market base here in AZ. After all, our state is 30% latino according the last census (I'm sure its more like 40%-50% in reality).

30% LEGAL latino community. Who are taxpayers, and who should support the law right along with every other American with common sense. No one is anti-immigration, they are simply anti ILLEGAL immigration.

Originally Posted by jmorrison

What does that have to do with anything? I didn't once say anything supporting any sort of conservative view or conservatives in general. This is a simple argument, and has nothing whatsoever to do with party politics, so I have no idea why the liberal front has gotten behind this so staunchly.

1. It is a federal law.
2. The state government has a duty to uphold the law.
3. The federal government was subjectively not enforcing this law (as evidenced by their reaction to a state enacting their OWN law that is the same as the federal law.
4. People are flipping out because the states government did exactly not only what they SHOULD do, but as they are OBLIGATED to do.

I never said you supported any one side, nor did I say i supported any side. Your statement came across like only liberals would stoop so low as to call another group of people NAZIS. Yes, it sickens me that they(liberals) would even think of calling another group(conservatives) NAZIS. I hate hate that term, HATE IT. I lost family to "NAZIS". Nothing in the US is even close to deserving that title. And no, i have nothing against Germans

Roger that. I didn't lose family to them, but I don't like being labled as a rascist nazi redneck simply because I support our nations laws and I see where you are coming from.

Ok. So what I thought was basically right. I wish every state would implement this law. It seems like everyone here is in agreement. We need an opposing view. Someone play devils advocate.

Originally Posted by Doublebase

Ok. So what I thought was basically right. I wish every state would implement this law. It seems like everyone here is in agreement. We need an opposing view. Someone play devils advocate.

Okay, here goes:

As The Devil, I fully support the illegal (and legal) immigration of Mexicans into the USA. I like things like theft, pedophilia, rape, murder, and the destruction of an organized, decent, society; all of which Mexicans bring to the USA.

Oh, and I also like their gaudy sense of style.

On the surface, I would say this law is bad, profiling isn't right. However, if I fly my happy ass to Italy and speak to an Italian cop in English, he has every right to ask for my passport. This is essentially a "law" everywhere, not just in AZ and not just in the U.S., apparently they are now going to enforce it. What is the point of having laws if you have no intention of enforcing them?

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

On the surface, I would say this law is bad, profiling isn't right. However, if I fly my happy ass to Italy and speak to an Italian cop in English, he has every right to ask for my passport. This is essentially a "law" everywhere, not just in AZ and not just in the U.S., apparently they are now going to enforce it. What is the point of having laws if you have no intention of enforcing them?

The law does NOT allow for profiling. When you apply for a drivers license, you have to prove citizenship or show your work visa. If you have a visa that expires, they set your drivers license to expire on the same date.

I am a white Canadian living and working in Arizona. If my visa expired and I did not leave, I would have an expired drivers license. If the police pulled me over and I couldn't produce a valid drivers license, they could arrest me under the new law.

This law works the same for me as it does for the Mexicans. The police still need just cause for asking for your identification not just because you look Mexican. It's just that in the course of their already routine investigations, if they find someone that is an illegal, they are allowed to arrest them.

I don't see the problem with that.

Originally Posted by NeilPearson

The law does NOT allow for profiling. When you apply for a drivers license, you have to prove citizenship or show your work visa. If you have a visa that expires, they set your drivers license to expire on the same date.

I am a white Canadian living and working in Arizona. If my visa expired and I did not leave, I would have an expired drivers license. If the police pulled me over and I couldn't produce a valid drivers license, they could arrest me under the new law.

This law works the same for me as it does for the Mexicans. The police still need just cause for asking for your identification not just because you look Mexican. It's just that in the course of their already routine investigations, if they find someone that is an illegal, they are allowed to arrest them.

I don't see the problem with that.

It doesn't ALLOW for profiling, it will essentially promote it, though. Who's to say I'm asking for someone's papers because they are Mexican? Who could prove that? Also, how many times have you been asked for your papers and do you think that will change based on this law. It will change for anyone that's brown. I think this is going to be a nightmare down the road, but that's AZ's problem. Police are going to profile, only a fool would suggest otherwise. If there was a recall of all red licorice because the red color additive was poisonous, they wouldn't recall the black licorice just because it wasn't fair.

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

It doesn't ALLOW for profiling, it will essentially promote it, though. Who's to say I'm asking for someone's papers because they are Mexican? Who could prove that? Also, how many times have you been asked for your papers and do you think that will change based on this law. It will change for anyone that's brown. I think this is going to be a nightmare down the road, but that's AZ's problem. Police are going to profile, only a fool would suggest otherwise. If there was a recall of all red licorice because the red color additive was poisonous, they wouldn't recall the black licorice just because it wasn't fair.

I am white and I get asked for my papers EVERY time I get pulled over which isn't that often but it does happen.

I got pulled over on Monday because I hadn't put my new registration stickers on my license plate yet. I produced my drivers license, my insurance and registration and he let me go. He even asked me where I worked. He had no way to know if I was a US citizen or not. Had I not had my license and no proof of insurance or registration, I would have completely expected to be arrested.

This has nothing to do with profiling. They aren't pulling people over for being Mexicans. They are pulling people over for speeding, broken tail lights and not having registration stickers. It's just now they can be charged for being an illegal immigrant as well as the other crimes they were committing that triggered the investigation

Originally Posted by NeilPearson

I am white and I get asked for my papers EVERY time I get pulled over which isn't that often but it does happen.

I got pulled over on Monday because I hadn't put my new registration stickers on my license plate yet. I produced my drivers license, my insurance and registration and he let me go. He even asked me where I worked. He had no way to know if I was a US citizen or not. Had I not had my license and no proof of insurance or registration, I would have completely expected to be arrested.

This has nothing to do with profiling. They aren't pulling people over for being Mexicans. They are pulling people over for speeding, broken tail lights and not having registration stickers. It's just now they can be charged for being an illegal immigrant as well as the other crimes they were committing that triggered the investigation

And it's a Canadian that has to point this out.

Thanks. A least someone gets it.

And right about now is when the Census folk are going door to door to those who did not fill out their census... My idea's sounding better and better!

Originally Posted by DOMS

Okay, here goes:

As The Devil, I fully support the illegal (and legal) immigration of Mexicans into the USA. I like things like theft, pedophilia, rape, murder, and the destruction of an organized, decent, society; all of which Mexicans bring to the USA.

Oh, and I also like their gaudy sense of style.

Originally Posted by NeilPearson

I am white and I get asked for my papers EVERY time I get pulled over which isn't that often but it does happen.

I got pulled over on Monday because I hadn't put my new registration stickers on my license plate yet. I produced my drivers license, my insurance and registration and he let me go. He even asked me where I worked. He had no way to know if I was a US citizen or not. Had I not had my license and no proof of insurance or registration, I would have completely expected to be arrested.

This has nothing to do with profiling. They aren't pulling people over for being Mexicans. They are pulling people over for speeding, broken tail lights and not having registration stickers. It's just now they can be charged for being an illegal immigrant as well as the other crimes they were committing that triggered the investigation

That's not the point. It has nothing to with driving or whatever. A cop has the right to ask for your papers where there is reasonable suspicion that you are an illegal immigrant. While this may happen in a traffic stop, it could and probably will happen in a situation where someone may be jaywalking. Like I said, I think profiling in this case is an obvious use of intelligence, you aren't looking for illegal U.S.Citizens so it makes no sense to pull over crackers. What is going on now is probably going to be significant in shaping U.S. immigration reform, hopefully they get a handle on their shit, but I won't hold my breath.