Thread: Fuck Israel and Zionist ; Israel attacks Gaza aid fleet

Originally Posted by bandaidwoman

Here at EMory University the neurosurgeons considered to be some of the best in the world are Lebanese. I have noticed that 3 years in a row the chief neurosurgical residents ( nominated by their peers to be best in the neurosurgical residency) have all been from Lebanon.

Professor Issam A. Awad MD

This guy was a Tindal scholar here at Emory, incredibly world wide famous ( Susie Tindal was a neurosurgeon here who perfected transsphenoidal pituitary surgery.)

and educated in English speaking countries. his life has been here in the west from the moment he left high school. I wonder why?

Originally Posted by Ejams

U sure love 2 hide Muslim achievements. Muslims built & taught in the worlds 1st university, they invented algebra, the started modern day science. They where the 1st people to use street lights, some 300 years before they appeared in Europe. The financial system used in the U.S 2day is based on the work of Abu Khaldoun, a famous Muslim mathematician.The worlds leading brain & heart surgeons are Muslim. The Muslims where the 1st people to have an organisation to look after the poor & widowed. There is much much more but I'm so sick of this argument, look it up yourself.

I personally don't consider past muslim achievements to be relevant to anything about the religion, and what is going on with Islam today.

Same as Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism, and other religions.

Achievements of people, that just happened to follow a particular religion is not relevant to me.

What IS relevant, is what this book called the Quran advocates, and being considered the "direct word of god" has seriously screwed up the minds of over 1.2 billion people on this Earth.

I've worked with muslims, becamse friends a 2 and have talked with them about their beliefs and Quran.

It's horsesh*t.

Originally Posted by Big Smoothy

I personally don't consider past muslim achievements to be relevant to anything about the religion, and what is going on with Islam today.

Well.. if you allow me BS , i disagree with you.

Ejames is right ,the past Muslims were the Pioneers in most of the fields and they were the first to put the basis of the Most sciences.

and as a Muslim i can say that these achievements were very much related to the religion..why ??
its very simple..

Muslims at these ages were very close to the teachings of islam.
the first word of the Qur'an revealed to the prophet was " Read".
the Qur'an insists in many verses on the importance of thinking and learning.
the prophet Mohamed(PBUH) said " Ask for science,even if it was in China "

So what i want to say is that Muslims were in certain ages the Leaders of the World,they Guided the human being to what we r in today,and that's becoz we were very close to the Qur'an and we were taking it as the source in making laws.but today in muslim countries most of our laws are of foreign origin.

Today Muslims are out of the science race becoz all of our Dictator governments became less caring to science and mostly caring on how to stay stick on their chairs as presidents,Those Dictators who are supported by the US policy as they get alot of benefits from this regardless to our suffers.

Originally Posted by bio-chem

and educated in English speaking countries. his life has been here in the west from the moment he left high school. I wonder why?

You follow the money, plain and simple. Second, most americans are not bilingual and can't qualify to train in a superior fellowship program in Lebanon or other countries for that matter because they can't speak another language. AS for the money, many will flock to china and India where their technical univeristies make MIT look like daycare. Third, he was probably a reject like me. University of Taiwan and two other major chinese universities rejected me but dartmouth, stanford, and cornell dididnt. Sometimes it is much more competative in our own countries than here.

Third, my point was the religion, just pointing out many, many muslim researchers and scientists are productive and contribute to science but westerners dont realize how imbedded they are into our own R and D, I can't stop bumping into at them research conferences. It's not the religion, its the environment. People on this forum keep mixing the two up.

Originally Posted by bandaidwoman

You follow the money, plain and simple.

Completely ignoring biochem's point. Nice.

Originally Posted by bandaidwoman

Second, most americans are not bilingual

Which has nothing to do with the the topic of Muslims not inventing or creating much of anything in 1500 years.

Originally Posted by bandaidwoman

many will flock to china and India where their technical univeristies make MIT look like daycare.

Bitter about Muslims not doing jack in regards to inventing or creating anything, and bitching about it in a passive aggressive way? Check.

Originally Posted by DOMS

Completely ignoring biochem's point. Nice.

nope, most of us study in america because of better funding (dartmouth gave me 100 grand) and we come from countries ( lebanon is very competative like taiwan) where we can't compete with our uber nerdy compatriots.

Which has nothing to do with the the topic of Muslims not inventing or creating much of anything in 1500 years.

In medicine, almost all research is creative and inventive and there are many muslims doing the research and inventing that ignoramuses don't bother to look up. I have just given you a small taste of their capabilities and innovativeness in medicine, you are completely ignoring it.

Let's start with my ex-collegue, Kamal Badr MD, why don't you look up how his research has contributed to the recent advances in glomerulonephritis? He holds at least three patents? (We were sad to lose him but lebanon university gave him better pay so he went back to his country) How does this not constitute creative and inventive? Oh wait, it kills xenophobes that so many foreigners might be so iimportant in medical advances in this country?

So what were you saying muslims have not invented or created anything in 1500 yrs. I guess his 2006 patent does not count.

How about (gasp an Iranian muslim !) Kavah Kajavih, also an ex collegue of mine http://www.gaspine.com/about/bio_KevahKhajavi.php who is a top neurosurgical reasearcher. At least the Falcons and Walter Reed don't give a crap that he is muslim.

Then there is Hassan sayegh, who was my cardiology fellow, a former NIH research award recipient.http://www.piedmontheart.org/phy/Pag...geID=PHY001171

Then there is a egyptian muslim Kamal Mansour MDthe cardiothoracic surgeon here who has had over 20 research publications( all original medical work).

This is just the tip of the iceberg..

Originally Posted by bandaidwoman

nope, most of us study in america because of better funding (dartmouth gave me 100 grand) and we come from countries ( lebanon is very competative like taiwan) where we can't compete with our uber nerdy compatriots.

Because your third-world "greatness" can't fund it because it hasn't done jack in doing...ya know...things that the rest of the world wants.

Originally Posted by bandaidwoman

Let's start with my ex-collegue, Kamal Badr MD

You mean the guy who had to go to a Western country/school to get most of his medical education (emphasis mine)?

"Dr. Badr received his MD from the American University of Beirut (AUB) in 1980 and completed Residency training at the AUB-Medical Center followed by a 4-year fellowship in nephrology at the Brigham and Women’s and Children’s Hospitals, Harvard Medical School. He joined the faculty at Vanderbilt University as Assistant and then Associate Professor (1986 to 1992), and then at Emory University as Professor of Medicine, nephrology section Chief at the Atlanta VA Hospital, and Director of the Center for Glomerulonephritis (1992 to 2000)."

Yeah, he just needed the West's money...right.

Compare his achievements to say, Carole Greider (American) and Jack Szostak (British), and their discovery of telomeres.

So yes, a third-world Muslim may amount to something if they make use of all the the first-world has to offer. Say, that reminds me of someone on this board, I just can't remember who...

Originally Posted by DOMS

Completely ignoring biochem's point. Nice.




Which has nothing to do with the the topic of Muslims not inventing or creating much of anything in 1500 years.



Bitter about Muslims not doing jack in regards to inventing or creating anything, and bitching about it in a passive aggressive way? Check.

I don't know why I even bother. She holds this guy up as a bastion of medical awesomeness, quick to point out just how foreign he is, and then when it's shown all of his schooling is coming from right here in the US he is labeled a foreign reject? my gosh, what a silly attempt to thread the needle and have it both ways. I don't give two shits how competitive foreign universities are compared to the US. by a whopping majority medical and scientific advances are done right here at US universities. the idea that MIT doesn't hold up to foreign universities shows the ridiculousness of her posts, and yet for some reason I let myself get sucked in yet again.

Let's not forget he did this in a country racked by civil war and invasion at one point by Israel. Conditions are now better or why else would he return to Lebanon?

Once again, you are detracting from the argument, I have just proven to you that the muslim religion itself is not the problem, finis.

Indians and chinese ( non muslim) also come to our country to benefit from the post graduate environment here. So what is your point?

I know how great the west is, but the initial argument is that the religion of islam does not produce creativity and science but I just refuted that. But, just like Lebanon, and China, and India, they are now plundering our knowledge and bringing it back to their country as the conditions get better. II don't see and Serbian scientists producing any worthwhile research in their own marginal country despite the fact that they are christian.

Originally Posted by bio-chem

I don't know why I even bother. She holds this guy up as a bastion of medical awesomeness, quick to point out just how foreign he is, and then when it's shown all of his schooling is coming from right here in the US he is labeled a foreign reject? my gosh, what a silly attempt to thread the needle and have it both ways. I don't give two shits how competitive foreign universities are compared to the US. by a whopping majority medical and scientific advances are done right here at US universities. the idea that MIT doesn't hold up to foreign universities shows the ridiculousness of her posts, and yet for some reason I let myself get sucked in yet again.

Both of you are confusing religion with environment, both of you have not refuted that islam prevents creativity and invention, I just showed you muslims that did. You both are so emotional about "defending" how great the west is.

Yes the west is great which is why we are seeing a flood of Serbian scientists coming to america because their country, like many of the middle east, tribal infighting, corruption etc, and exists in marginal conditions. Yet no one uses the argument that being christians is why they must do so.

In fact, I know it infuriates you so much that muslims are capable of such astonishing medical research that your react by saying they had to come to the west to do so? How does that tie into the hypothesis that being muslim means you are incapable of producing anything inventive?

Laugh, but if your "ivy leagues" accepted me and Univeristy of Taiwan rejected me for being unqualified, then you are truely ignorant.( and I really wanted to go because my family was there). There isn't a flood of americans vying for the top spot at a Japanese or Taiwanese university ( harder to get into than harvard) because you can't get in, simple

I am looking to china in the future or latin america ( brazil) because in my field, stem cell therapy for type 1.5 diabetes or LADA they are leaps and bounds ahead of us. WHere I used to do research, cold spring harbor laboratory, many of the molecular biologists fled to china and europe and brazil to do embryonic research, yes america is great, but it is no longer the mecca for scientific research like it used to be. The reason why Badr went back to Lebanon, now as for the Iranian neurosurgeon, he would have to be a moron to leave the Falcons. $$$$$$$

Originally Posted by bio-chem

I don't know why I even bother. She holds this guy up as a bastion of medical awesomeness, quick to point out just how foreign he is, and then when it's shown all of his schooling is coming from right here in the US he is labeled a foreign reject? my gosh, what a silly attempt to thread the needle and have it both ways. I don't give two shits how competitive foreign universities are compared to the US. by a whopping majority medical and scientific advances are done right here at US universities. the idea that MIT doesn't hold up to foreign universities shows the ridiculousness of her posts, and yet for some reason I let myself get sucked in yet again.

Very true.

To give credit where's it due, a lot of useful research and advancement also come from facilities in Europe. Most notably German, British,and French.

Muslims took care of a lot of them overseas..no refunds

Originally Posted by bandaidwoman

Both of you are confusing religion with environment, both of you have not refuted that islam prevents creativity and invention, I just showed you muslims that did. You both are so emotional about "defending" how great the west is.

Yes the west is great which is why we are seeing a flood of Serbian scientists coming to america because their country, like many of the middle east, exists in marginal conditions. Yet noone uses the argument that being christians is why they must do so.

Okay, so what're saying is that every place where Muslims reside on this planet is shit. You do realize that by saying they have to come to the West to get anything of substance done, and that none of it gets done "back home" says just that?

Additionally, you're saying that they have to go to places where Muslims don't set the law in order to get anything done. This is the most telling thing that you have said about Muslims and their culture. It's also part of what I and biochem are saying.

Originally Posted by doctormomen

Well.. if you allow me BS , i disagree with you.

Ejames is right ,the past Muslims were the Pioneers in most of the fields and they were the first to put the basis of the Most sciences.

and as a Muslim i can say that these achievements were very much related to the religion..why ??
its very simple..

Muslims at these ages were very close to the teachings of islam.
the first word of the Qur'an revealed to the prophet was " Read".
the Qur'an insists in many verses on the importance of thinking and learning.
the prophet Mohamed(PBUH) said " Ask for science,even if it was in China "

So what i want to say is that Muslims were in certain ages the Leaders of the World,they Guided the human being to what we r in today,and that's becoz we were very close to the Qur'an and we were taking it as the source in making laws.but today in muslim countries most of our laws are of foreign origin.

Today Muslims are out of the science race becoz all of our Dictator governments became less caring to science and mostly caring on how to stay stick on their chairs as presidents,Those Dictators who are supported by the US policy as they get alot of benefits from this regardless to our suffers.

It's certainly OK to disagree, doctormomen.

Yes, many government in the Muslims world are dictatorships supported by American backroom deals and oil money.

Even your nation of Egypt (which I hope to visit one day) has Mubarak being propped up the US, as he received the #2 largest amount of US foreign aid in the world.

And the Saud family.

And many more.....

Good point, doctor.

Originally Posted by DOMS

Okay, so what're saying is that every place where Muslims reside on this planet is shit. .

You obviously haven't been to singapore, Malaysia or turkey, you should, beautiful countries. Once again you confuse religion with geographic politics, why don't you read up on stratfor, just order the basic 300 dollar subsription, they analyze these areas and explain the problem more objectively, I know you have liked what they have had to say in the past.

Originally Posted by Big Smoothy

It's certainly OK to disagree, doctormomen.

Yes, many government in the Muslims world are dictatorships supported by American backroom deals and oil money.

Even your nation of Egypt (which I hope to visit one day) has Mubarak being propped up the US, as he received the #2 largest amount of US foreign aid in the world.

And the Saud family.

And many more.....

Good point, doctor.

China is following suit, people forget china supported president mugabe in zimbabwe, also, out of the future urgent addiction to oil, they support the oil rich Iran, Russia and Venezuala totalitarian governments. It's amazing how both superpowers help finance some pretty shady characters, but that is the privelige of being super powers no? Unfortunately, the chinese nation has no ethical qualms about this since chinese are ultimately pragmatists above being "ethical". At least this country allows a healthy showing of disgust for some of our actions.

Originally Posted by bio-chem

I don't know why I even bother. She holds this guy up as a bastion of medical awesomeness, quick to point out just how foreign he is, and then when it's shown all of his schooling is coming from right here in the US he is labeled a foreign reject? my gosh, what a silly attempt to thread the needle and have it both ways. I don't give two shits how competitive foreign universities are compared to the US. by a whopping majority medical and scientific advances are done right here at US universities. the idea that MIT doesn't hold up to foreign universities shows the ridiculousness of her posts, and yet for some reason I let myself get sucked in yet again.

Yes, it is interesting that she claims that Asian Universities are so much more competitive than western ones. Yet, when you look at the whopping majority (if not 100%) of scientific breakthroughs, over the last hundred years, they all have come from European and US universities. When I was in China, I spent a lot of time, on the side, proof reading essays for students applying for graduate schools, PhD programs, and Med school in the US, UK, Canada, and Australia. Basically, every student I met who was reasonably fluent in English and academically competitive was trying to get into a western Ivy League university and most of them were science related. Not a single one was studying Japanese or Portuguese to study in Japan or Brazil.

Sure, Islamic law has nothing to do with why the middle east has remained so backward for the last 1500 years. Prior to Islam, it was a bastion of creativity, with great contributions to mathematics and science. However, after Islam was spread by the sword for hundreds of years, the whole region remained stagnant and they would still be living in tents and shearing sheep if it weren't for the discovery of oil. Please show some examples if something they export, other than oil, terrorism, and their hateful ideology.

Originally Posted by Big Smoothy

It's certainly OK to disagree, doctormomen.

Yes, many government in the Muslims world are dictatorships supported by American backroom deals and oil money.

Even your nation of Egypt (which I hope to visit one day) has Mubarak being propped up the US, as he received the #2 largest amount of US foreign aid in the world.

And the Saud family.

And many more.....

Good point, doctor.

This video is Awesome!

Originally Posted by bandaidwoman

You obviously haven't been to singapore, Malaysia or turkey, you should, beautiful countries. Once again you confuse religion with geographic politics, why don't you read up on stratfor, just order the basic 300 dollar subsription, they analyze these areas and explain the problem more objectively, I know you have liked what they have had to say in the past.

Singapore and Malaysia I can buy, but Turkey? Seriously?

Oh, and Singapore and Malaysia have worthwhile attributes because the have so many people that aren't Muslim.

Singapore (wiki): "It has a diverse population of close to 5 million people made up of Chinese, Malays, Indians, Asians of various descents, and Caucasians. 42% of the population in Singapore are foreigners who work and study there. Foreign workers make up 50% of the service sector" and "Buddhism is the dominant religion in Singapore, with 42.5% of the resident population declaring themselves adherents at the most recent census."

Malaysia (wiki): "50.4% Malay, 23.7% Chinese, 11.0% Indigenous, 7.1%, Indian, 7.8% Other" and "approximately 60.4% of the population practiced Islam; 19.2% Buddhism; 9.1% Christianity; 6.3% Hinduism; and 2.6% practice Confucianism, Taoism and other traditional Chinese religions". Unlike Singapore, this one counts as an official Islamic country, barely.

However, I'm feeling magnanimous, so I'll simply agree that all three countries are fine, shining examples of Muslim culture. Singapore has a population of 4,987,600, Malaysia has 27,467,837, and Turkey has 74,815,703. That's a total of 107 million people. Supposedly there are about 1.4 billion (the numbers are between 1.2 and 1.6) Muslims in the world. That means that about 7% of Muslims worldwide are any good.

Wow. That's awesome.

Originally Posted by GearsMcGilf

Sure, Islamic law has nothing to do with why the middle east has remained so backward for the last 1500 years. Prior to Islam, it was a bastion of creativity, with great contributions to mathematics and science. However, after Islam was spread by the sword for hundreds of years, the whole region remained stagnant and they would still be living in tents and shearing sheep if it weren't for the discovery of oil. Please show some examples if something they export, other than oil, terrorism, and their hateful ideology.

I never really considered this line of reasoning. The Egyptians made their greatest discoveries when the believed in the Egyptian pantheon. Then the Muslim religion showed up and...nothing.

A very interesting insight, Gears. Well done.

Originally Posted by DOMS

However, I'm feeling magnanimous, so I'll simply agree that all three countries are fine, shining examples of Muslim culture. Singapore has a population of 4,987,600, Malaysia has 27,467,837, and Turkey has 74,815,703. That's a total of 107 million people. Supposedly there are about 1.4 billion (the numbers are between 1.2 and 1.6) Muslims in the world. That means that about 7% of Muslims worldwide are any good.

Wow. That's awesome.

Great points. But, I was a bit skeptical already when she used Singapore and Malaysia as examples successful Muslim countries. That's like saying that Sikhism is the reason for India's emerging economy. Ethnic Chinese make up 24% of the Malaysian population and dominate the economy to this day, to the tune of 70%. IOW, ifleft entirely to the Muslim Malays, 70% of country's economy would be nonexistent.

Inequalities exist between different ethnic groups, with a major issue being that the Chinese minority accounts for 70% of the country's market capitalization, even though it only makes up about one-third of it.[112]

Malaysia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by GearsMcGilf

Great points. But, I was a bit skeptical already when she used Singapore and Malaysia as examples successful Muslim countries. That's like saying that Sikhism is the reason for India's emerging economy. Ethnic Chinese make up 24% of the Malaysian population and dominate the economy to this day, to the tune of 70%. IOW, ifleft entirely to the Muslim Malays, 70% of country's economy would be nonexistent.

"Inequalities exist between different ethnic groups, with a major issue being that the Chinese minority accounts for 70% of the country's market capitalization"

I'm willing to bet the source of the "inequalities" is that the Chinese actually do something to make the money. Such as going to school, building businesses, and being globally aware.

So many cries of inequality stem from one of group of people doing little or nothing and then bitching about another group that actually does something to improve their lives.

I've learned quite a bit in this thread. Very nice.