Thread: Local high schools want to have their graduation in a church - UPDATED 6/4 post 84

Originally Posted by DOMS

This is the butt hurt that I was talking about.

Here you go:

That's not good butt hurt. Here is good butt hurt:

Weightlifter

Originally Posted by DOMS

Bio, I'm going to have to side with Neil on this. Sometimes, marriages fall apart. Often it's mutual, but I've seen far too many people get married (especially young) and watch as one of them changes for the worst.

I've seen this scenario play out at least three times: The couple gets married. As the woman ages, she lets herself go and gets fat. Then, because she's no longer attractive and enjoys the perks thereof, she becomes better. Then she starts to take it out on the husband. There's no fixing that, the woman is set in her new ways and the only option (all three times) was for the man to leave.

I've also seen a guy get so super-possessive that the woman, if she wants any sort of freedom, has to leave.

So yeah, some divorces do have to happen.

I guess I need to clarify. I'm not some hard nosed ultra-religious crack pot individual who thinks divorce should never happen. there are instances that divorce needs to happen. I also think that divorce is too prevalent and people now days find it easier to quit than show some commitment and work through it. I'm making a generalization here and not specific to any circumstance. Neil started a thread about his divorce and nothing I read in there indicated anything other than him giving up on his marriage vows. I used his divorce as an example here to show the utter lunacy of him calling you a hypocrite for your avatar when he has been so free publicly with his own life that is much more morally suspect than a cartoon

Originally Posted by NeilPearson

So if you take the highest estimate that is based on people with an association with a temple then I guess it would be higher... I'm actually surprised its not 100%. Why be associated with a temple if you weren't

I've done my research on world-wide religions way before today. I have a special interest in Japan. For the Japanese, religion is an everyday thing, but not for one day a week. They take it very seriously and use it in their relationships with family members. A lot of homes (don't have the number) even have family shrines in the home.

So for that article to claim that Japan has little religion is, for me, far beyond ludicrous. it's almost nonsensical.

Originally Posted by NeilPearson

Covenant usually implies a religious covenant in this situation which it wasn't.

There was no "as long as you both shall live" in my vows.

It was a legal contract. I ended it legally. What's the problem?

do you prefer Vow or promise to covenant? arguing semantics here when the truth is you gave up shows you have nothing

Originally Posted by bio-chem

pol pot is an excellent example. I'm not excusing anything the US has done in our past. what I am saying is look at the outcome of societies that reject religion. The Khmer Rouge did just that. for the purposes of this debate the example is one of the best I can think of

There is a difference between Rejecting Religion and not allowing it to be forced upon others....nobody here is denying the religious their rights, they are only enforcing the rights of the non-religious....

I am constantly put in awkward situations where everyone is praying with their heads bowed and I'm just standing their looking around, I had to huddle up with my football team before games while they did their lords prayer thing, here at work they say prayer before we eat at company luncheons, funerals always do this to me.....I don't complain I just wait patiently, but I wouldn't allow my graduation to force me to hold my ceremony in a Church because it's a special time for me, I don't want my diploma hand-off pictures to have a crucifix in the background misrepresenting my beliefs....

Originally Posted by DOMS

I've done my research on world-wide religions way before today. I have a special interest in Japan. For the Japanese, religion is an everyday thing, but not for one day a week. They take it very seriously and use it in their relationships with family members. A lot of homes (don't have the number) even have family shrines in the home.

So for that article to claim that Japan has little religion is, for me, far beyond ludicrous. it's almost nonsensical.

I only know about the statistics I read. If wikipedia is wrong, someone should update it. There are references to their claims though. It probably depends on who you ask

Originally Posted by bio-chem

do you prefer Vow or promise to covenant? arguing semantics here when the truth is you gave up shows you have nothing

There was no reason to stay in the marriage. There were no kids. We didn't like either other that much. We never spent time together. Why continue it?

Originally Posted by maniclion

There is a difference between Rejecting Religion and not allowing it to be forced upon others....nobody here is denying the religious their rights, they are only enforcing the rights of the non-religious....

I am constantly put in awkward situations where everyone is praying with their heads bowed and I'm just standing their looking around, I had to huddle up with my football team before games while they did their lords prayer thing, here at work they say prayer before we eat at company luncheons, funerals always do this to me.....I don't complain I just wait patiently, but I wouldn't allow my graduation to force me to hold my ceremony in a Church because it's a special time for me, I don't want my diploma hand-off pictures to have a crucifix in the background misrepresenting my beliefs....

Like I said before. as long as doctrine isn't being preached it is only a nice building. You won't see crosses at an LDS building, but it wouldn't bother me in the least to have a graduation in either a catholic or protestant church, a mosque, or a synagogue.

everyone of the examples you gave doesn't make sense to me. them expressing their beliefs in those situations doesn't force anything upon you. you aren't praying if you don't want to. there is nothing awkward about it. I have attended religious ceremonies of catholics, protestants, and other religions and while I don't participate it doesn't bother me in the slightest to show patience and respect for another individual as they express their spirituality.

Originally Posted by NeilPearson

There was no reason to stay in the marriage. There were no kids. We didn't like either other that much. We never spent time together. Why continue it?

and how did it get to that point? how did it go from total love and selflessness on your wedding day (I'm assuming those were true then) to no love and selfishness? if you weren't spending time together you weren't making time. not making time to spend with your wife doesn't tell me that you know how to treat a woman. the problem isn't the divorce. It's all those little decisions you made that allowed your marriage to fail that led to the divorce that shows your true character.

I'm sure it seems like I'm taking a hard line ass hole stance on this, and I probably am. I won't however sit here and be called a moral hypocrite by a guy who claims he is without sin and is perfect. I also feel people giving up on marriage shows a real problem in the US right now. marriage should be viewed as more than a business contract. marriage is special and should be treated that way.

Originally Posted by bio-chem

Like I said before. as long as doctrine isn't being preached it is only a nice building. You won't see crosses at an LDS building, but it wouldn't bother me in the least to have a graduation in either a catholic or protestant church, a mosque, or a synagogue.

everyone of the examples you gave doesn't make sense to me. them expressing their beliefs in those situations doesn't force anything upon you. you aren't praying if you don't want to. there is nothing awkward about it. I have attended religious ceremonies of catholics, protestants, and other religions and while I don't participate it doesn't bother me in the slightest to show patience and respect for another individual as they express their spirituality.

I just don't like it when people assume you are a christian. Just because I'm white, quiet, forgiving, nice and respectful doesn't mean I am a christian...and during prayer I alway's get a glance or 2 from someone like "WTF don't you see we have our heads bowed and are holding our sacred seance to the imaginary bringer of this food we ordered from the chinese restaurant" Of course it doesn't bother you because you are biased toward religion, I am not....

Originally Posted by maniclion

I just don't like it when people assume you are a christian. Just because I'm white, quiet, forgiving, nice and respectful doesn't mean I am a christian...and during prayer I alway's get a glance or 2 from someone like "WTF don't you see we have our heads bowed and are holding our sacred seance to the imaginary bringer of this food we ordered from the chinese restaurant" Of course it doesn't bother you because you are biased toward religion, I am not....

No you are biased against it.

what I'm saying is it doesn't bother me when people around me express religious beliefs contrary to mine openly. it doesn't effect my beliefs or my relationship/lack of with God in any way.

are you really so thin skinned that a glance from someone you are eating dinner with offends you? something like that could be used as a great opportunity to discuss your beliefs civilly. but you use it as a point of separation and want them to stop expressing their beliefs in your presence? sounds pretty immature in my opinion. I've prayed with many differing religions with different beliefs than mine and not once have i been offended or given offense to them. its not that hard

Originally Posted by bio-chem

and how did it get to that point? how did it go from total love and selflessness on your wedding day (I'm assuming those were true then) to no love and selfishness? .

I'm not sure we were ever really in love. I think we just thought we were. I don't think it went from total love and selflessness to no love and selfishness. I don't think it really changed much. There was never really love and I don't think either one of us was particularily selfish.

Originally Posted by bio-chem

if you weren't spending time together you weren't making time. not making time to spend with your wife doesn't tell me that you know how to treat a woman.

It has nothing to do with not knowing how to treat a woman. She worked a lot and when she wasn't working, she was out with her horses... which I was selflessly helping to fund for about $1000 a month even though she would make a big deal about me wanting to get a $200 video card or something once a year.

Originally Posted by bio-chem

the problem isn't the divorce. It's all those little decisions you made that allowed your marriage to fail that led to the divorce that shows your true character..

It's not the little decisions. We weren't right for each other from the start. We made a young foolish mistake and stuck it out for 10 years. You know nothing about my true character from some random postings on the internet that are mostly designed just to stir up shit.

Originally Posted by bio-chem

I'm sure it seems like I'm taking a hard line ass hole stance on this, and I probably am. I won't however sit here and be called a moral hypocrite by a guy who claims he is without sin and is perfect. I also feel people giving up on marriage shows a real problem in the US right now. marriage should be viewed as more than a business contract. marriage is special and should be treated that way.

It's nothing personal. I think the religious by definition are hypocrites because a human can't possibly live up to the unrealistic standards of religion. That's why Jesus told people not to judge. He realized there wasn't anyone that could live without sin as defined by religion.

On the other hand, I am without sin because I don't believe the things I do are sins.

Some marriages are special and should be treated that way. Mine wasn't really all that special. We were just kind of roommates for the most part.

Originally Posted by NeilPearson

It's nothing personal. I think the religious by definition are hypocrites because a human can't possibly live up to the unrealistic standards of religion. That's why Jesus told people not to judge. He realized there wasn't anyone that could live without sin as defined by religion.

On the other hand, I am without sin because I don't believe the things I do are sins.

Some marriages are special and should be treated that way. Mine wasn't really all that special. We were just kind of roommates for the most part.

don't try and use the words of Jesus when you don't believe them or understand them. just makes you look ignorant.

i'm forced to go back to an extreme example to prove my point. hitler didn't appear to think what he was doing was a sin. doesn't mean he was perfect. your logic is unbelievably flawed.

there is no gradation of marriage. some being special and some not being special. the covenant/vow/promise of marriage is always special and should be treated as such.

Originally Posted by bio-chem

No you are biased against it.

what I'm saying is it doesn't bother me when people around me express religious beliefs contrary to mine openly. it doesn't effect my beliefs or my relationship/lack of with God in any way.

are you really so thin skinned that a glance from someone you are eating dinner with offends you? something like that could be used as a great opportunity to discuss your beliefs civilly. but you use it as a point of separation and want them to stop expressing their beliefs in your presence? sounds pretty immature in my opinion. I've prayed with many differing religions with different beliefs than mine and not once have i been offended or given offense to them. its not that hard

I don't care that people express their beliefs in front of me or even for my sake, it's the look as though I am a demon spawn because I'm staring off into the clouds while everyone is praying, or one time I was scribbling in my notebook and got a dirty look or the time I took a swig of beer during their prayer and one of my co-workers who was saying a prayer decided to add m little prayer for god to reach my soul and bless me oh heavenly father...

You pray so you can camouflage into them, I don't pray so I do what I do, write, drink and daydream....I live in the moment physically and spiritually, freely that is my belief system....

Originally Posted by maniclion

You pray so you can camouflage into them, I don't pray so I do what I do, write, drink and daydream....I live in the moment physically and spiritually, freely that is my belief system....

I absolutely don't pray so i can "camouflage into them". I never compromise my beliefs to fit in. but allowing someone else to worship how they see fit doesn't make me do that.

Originally Posted by bio-chem

I absolutely don't pray so i can "camouflage into them". I never compromise my beliefs to fit in. but allowing someone else to worship how they see fit doesn't make me do that.

You don't stick out like a sore thumb because your actions mimic theirs, but I'm sure you are saying your own prayers, like if you were with muslims you wouldn't be praisng allah and their prophet....