Thread: House GOP sending Obama a message on health repeal

Originally Posted by DOMS

Lowering unemployment is a lot harder than stopping a piece of shitting legislation.

I agree, and since it's so difficult we should just keep kicking the can down the road and dealing with issues that aren't really going to become issues until 2014 when most of the controversial portions go into effect. That sounds like the smartest idea. There will be fallout if the GOP spends any significant time on repealing healthcare and not creating jobs.

I am interested to know who here has actually read the healthcare bill.

I've read the entire document from stat to finish, it's been posted on the white house website for about 1.5 years now.

There's very little that's objectionable.

My favorite is the death panels. The first thing anyone opposed to it brings up and there is nothing in either versions about a death panel. LOL

I'd give you more rep but it won't let me.

Originally Posted by LAM

how exactly does an illegal with no job or "employer" get primary health care?

At the very least, the expansion to Medicaid benefits will also apply to illegals. Increase benefits of any kind will increase the torrent of Mexicans, which feeds into a downward spiral.

Originally Posted by LAM

to date the GOP has not written or supported any real type of health care reform or legislation that does not directly benefit the pockets of providers.

So, because the Republicans will pay back their special interest groups, it's okay for the Democrats to do so too?

It's hilarious how you think your group can do no wrong. To be fair, I was like that years ago. It really is funny from this side of that mentality.

Originally Posted by LAM

Not many will argue that the bill passed by Obama isn't perfect but some reform is better than none and that's all the GOP ever offers

No. It. Is. Not!

That is such horrible thinking. Making something worse is not superior to keep things the same.

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

I agree, and since it's so difficult we should just keep kicking the can down the road and dealing with issues that aren't really going to become issues until 2014 when most of the controversial portions go into effect. That sounds like the smartest idea. There will be fallout if the GOP spends any significant time on repealing healthcare and not creating jobs.

Fixing unemployment takes a long-term thoughtful approach, but it starts now. Stopping legislation that will cause more damage to an already damaged economy can be done now and have results now.

To think that both can't be done at the same is incorrect.

Republicans had an opportunity to help write the legislation but refused. Having read the legislation myself there is more good than there is bad. By a very wide margin.

Originally Posted by Zaphod

Republicans had an opportunity to help write the legislation but refused.

Because socialized medicine isn't a good idea for the USA.

But oh yes, it's the Republicans' (anyone else but me!) fault. Obama was so hell bent on passing it (for whatever his personal reasons) that he allowed it to go though even though both the Republicans and his fellow Democrats piled on the pork for states and corporations.

His bill was more important than actually doing any real good.

But yes, let's blame someone else. Not Obama or his party.

It isn't socialized medicine.

Originally Posted by DOMS

At the very least, the expansion to Medicaid benefits will also apply to illegals. Increase benefits of any kind will increase the torrent of Mexicans, which feeds into a downward spiral.

So, because the Republicans will pay back their special interest groups, it's okay for the Democrats to do so too?

It's hilarious how you think your group can do no wrong. To be fair, I was like that years ago. It really is funny from this side of that mentality.


No. It. Is. Not!

That is such horrible thinking. Making something worse is not superior to keep things the same.

how is providing more preventive health care to US citizens which saves money in the long run making things worst?

exactly which special interests groups that support the Dems benefit financially from less people dying in the US from preventable disease, decreased co-pays, insurance premimums and medicare costs?

using illegals/immigration to prevent health care reform has got to be the weakest argument I've ever heard. You obviosuly are talking out of your ass and haven't read the document. Because if you had you would know that Under the Affordable Care Act, undocumented immigrants are not able to enter the exchanges to purchase coverage nor are they able to obtain tax credits to purchase insurance. Undocumented immigrants will receive absolutely no assistance from the government.

Summary of the new health care reform law
http://www.kff.org/healthreform/upload/finalhcr.pdf

Originally Posted by LAM

how is providing more preventive health care to US citizens which saves money in the long run making things worst?

If the bill was passed in the form that they claimed that it was going to be, it would be good. But that didn't happen.

Originally Posted by LAM

exactly which special interests groups that support the Dems benefit financially from less people dying in the US from preventable disease, decreased co-pays and medicare costs?

Because all the backroom deal that he made were for the benefit of the people. Right...

Originally Posted by LAM

using illegals/immigration to prevent health care reform has got to be the weakest argument I've ever heard.

So, the 20 million illegals here, and the hundreds of thousands coming across the border--who can make use of the "free" health care--don't matter? Nor does it matter that they'll come here in even larger numbers for any health care, versus the none that they get back home? That they'll put a strain on the health care system that it can't take? Just like they're putting a crushing weight on the economy of California?

If you can't understand basic numbers, I can't help you.

Originally Posted by DOMS

If the bill was passed in the form that they claimed that it was going to be, it would be good. But that didn't happen.



Because all the backroom deal that he made were for the benefit of the people. Right...




So, the 20 million illegals here, and the hundreds of thousands coming across the border--who can make use of the "free" health care--don't matter? Nor does it matter that they'll come here in even larger numbers for any health care, versus the none that they get back home? That they'll put a strain on the health care system that it can't take? Just like they're putting a crushing weight on the economy of California?

If you can't understand basic numbers, I can't help you.

where is the free health-care for "illegal immigrants". please post a link or quote the verbage from ANY document that states such.

Get the Facts Straight on Health Reform | The White House

Originally Posted by DOMS

If the bill was passed in the form that they claimed that it was going to be, it would be good. But that didn't happen.



Because all the backroom deal that he made were for the benefit of the people. Right...




So, the 20 million illegals here, and the hundreds of thousands coming across the border--who can make use of the "free" health care--don't matter? Nor does it matter that they'll come here in even larger numbers for any health care, versus the none that they get back home? That they'll put a strain on the health care system that it can't take? Just like they're putting a crushing weight on the economy of California?

If you can't understand basic numbers, I can't help you.

Perhaps you should stay away from basic numbers because there is nothing to do with providing illegal immigrants with healthcare in the bills.

If you can't understand basic wording in the bill, I can't help you.

Originally Posted by LAM

where is the free health-care for "illegal immigrants". please post a link or quote the verbage from ANY document that states such.

Get the Facts Straight on Health Reform | The White House

From the link you gave:

Absolutely not. Under the Affordable Care Act, undocumented immigrants are not able to enter the exchanges to purchase coverage nor are they able to obtain tax credits to purchase insurance. Undocumented immigrants will receive absolutely no assistance from the government.

The above quote starts with "Absolutely not." Then it goes on to cover only one portion of the system.

In a link I gave, it shows that there is no verbage for forcing any part of the system to actually check if the person is illegal. Actually, the politicians, especially Black Jesus, made it a point to not put such terms in the health care bill. And if it's not supposed to be used by illegals, why not put that in the bill?

"But, oh no! There'll certainly enforce it!" You mean just like how California denies (tax payer funded) tuitions to illegals? No, they don't. As a matter of fact, they stated it was unconstitutional to deny them. You think that if the Democrats aren't going to deny tuition to illegals that they're going to deny medical benefits? Anyone who says that is full of shit.

Also, the health care reform extends Medicaid, which illegals already use to great detriment. The Medicaid benefits increase means that the benefits to illegals increase.

Originally Posted by Zaphod

Perhaps you should stay away from basic numbers because there is nothing to do with providing illegal immigrants with healthcare in the bills.

If you can't understand basic wording in the bill, I can't help you.

See my above post and suck it.

Try reading the actual healthcare bill. As smart as you claim to be it should be easy reading. It was for me.

Originally Posted by Zaphod

Try reading the actual healthcare bill. As smart as you claim to be it should be easy reading. It was for me.

I've read the parts that interest me. I've also looked for the parts that don't seem to be there. You know, the part that specifically denies illegals access to the system. But by all means, show me that part. I'm talking about the part that denies California from claiming that the new medical system isn't unconstitutional.

Oh, but you can't.

I need to provide proof against your fantastical claims? You need to find some shred of evidence to bolster your claims, buddy.

Until then just sit & spin.

Originally Posted by Zaphod

I need to provide proof against your fantastical claims? You need to find some shred of evidence to bolster your claims, buddy.

Until then just sit & spin.

I've already pointed out that:

• The system doesn't force anyone to check the citizen status of anyone using it.
• That illegals are already using Medicaid and that the bill is going to extend that resource.
• That, as an example, California has said that tuitions can't be withheld from illegals.

So unless you can show me the part of the bill that specifically states that illegals are denied access to the new health care system (not just in part), that illegals aren't using Medicaid, and that California can't determine that illegals have a constitutional right to the system, you're full of it.

Originally Posted by DOMS

I've already pointed out that:

• The system doesn't force anyone to check the citizen status of anyone using it.
• That illegals are already using Medicaid and that the bill is going to extend that resource.
• That, as an example, California has said that tuitions can't be withheld from illegals.

So unless you can show me the part of the bill that specifically states that illegals are denied access to the new health care system (not just in part), that illegals aren't using Medicaid, and that California can't determine that illegals have a constitutional right to the system, you're full of it.

you keeping bringing up the point about the system not checking the citizen ship status of the individual.

http://docs.house.gov/energycommerce/ppacacon.pdf

See Section: Sec. 1312 PPACA (Consolidated) 82 on Page 101

now you can suck it!


Sec. 1312 PPACA (Consolidated) 82
(e) ENROLLMENT THROUGH AGENTS OR BROKERS.—øAs revised
by section 10104(i)(2)¿ The Secretary shall establish procedures
under which a State may allow agents or brokers—
(1) to enroll individuals and employers in any qualified
health plans in the individual or small group market as soon
as the plan is offered through an Exchange in the State; and
(2) to assist individuals in applying for premium tax credits
and cost-sharing reductions for plans sold through an Exchange.
(f) QUALIFIED INDIVIDUALS AND EMPLOYERS; ACCESS LIMITED
TO CITIZENS AND LAWFUL RESIDENTS.—
(1) QUALIFIED INDIVIDUALS.—In this title:
(A) IN GENERAL.—The term ‘‘qualified individual’’
means, with respect to an Exchange, an individual who—
(i) is seeking to enroll in a qualified health plan
in the individual market offered through the Exchange;
and
(ii) øAs revised by section 10104(i)(3)¿ resides in
the State that established the Exchange.
(B) INCARCERATED INDIVIDUALS EXCLUDED.—An individual
shall not be treated as a qualified individual if, at
the time of enrollment, the individual is incarcerated,
other than incarceration pending the disposition of
charges.
(2) QUALIFIED EMPLOYER.—In this title:
(A) IN GENERAL.—The term ‘‘qualified employer’’
means a small employer that elects to make all full-time
employees of such employer eligible for 1 or more qualified
health plans offered in the small group market through an
Exchange that offers qualified health plans.
(B) EXTENSION TO LARGE GROUPS.—
(i) IN GENERAL.—Beginning in 2017, each State
may allow issuers of health insurance coverage in the
large group market in the State to offer qualified
health plans in such market through an Exchange.
Nothing in this subparagraph shall be construed as requiring
the issuer to offer such plans through an Exchange.
(ii) LARGE EMPLOYERS ELIGIBLE.—If a State under
clause (i) allows issuers to offer qualified health plans
in the large group market through an Exchange, the
term ‘‘qualified employer’’ shall include a large employer
that elects to make all full-time employees of
such employer eligible for 1 or more qualified health
plans offered in the large group market through the
Exchange.
(3) ACCESS LIMITED TO LAWFUL RESIDENTS.—If an individual
is not, or is not reasonably expected to be for the entire
period for which enrollment is sought, a citizen or national of
the United States or an alien lawfully present in the United
States, the individual shall not be treated as a qualified individual
and may not be covered under a qualified health plan
in the individual market that is offered through an Exchange.

Originally Posted by LAM

now you can suck it!

Sucking it now...

That makes me feel better. The section on who is eligible, not the sucking it!

It's good to know it's not open to illegals. So even if the Republicans can't block it, it has that going for it.

I hope if the Democrats get back in power they repeal the constitution and burn the bill of rights.Burn all the churches and execute all the GOP.