Thread: House GOP sending Obama a message on health repeal

Good. I hope they do it.

Originally Posted by DOMS

Good. I hope they do it.

why?

Originally Posted by LAM

why?

Not the least of reasons is that the person being helped can't have their citizen status checked.

Put another way, the health care system is open to illegals.

Nancy promised that if we passed it, we could at least find out what's in it. Yet, most people still don't know WTF is in it. Only that our premiums are going up and, like it or not, we have no choice but to buy into it. Perhaps the fact that it's an unconstitutional piece of legislation has something to do it. Perhaps that we're also going to be paying for it two years before any of the benefits kick in is also rubbing some people the wrong way. When the dems have to bribe members of their own party to pass it also should tell even the biggest Obamabots among us that there's something wrong with it.

Originally Posted by GearsMcGilf

Nancy promised that if we passed it, we could at least find out what's in it. Yet, most people still don't know WTF is in it. Only that our premiums are going up and, like it or not, we have no choice but to buy into it. Perhaps the fact that it's an unconstitutional piece of legislation has something to do it. Perhaps that we're also going to be paying for it two years before any of the benefits kick in is also rubbing some people the wrong way. When the dems have to bribe members of their own party to pass it also should tell even the biggest Obamabots among us that there's something wrong with it.

health care premiums have risen at 7x the rate of inflation for the past 30 years due to a lack of regulation. all of the info has been posted on the white house website almost 2 years ago.

Health Reform in Action | The White House

Originally Posted by GearsMcGilf

When the dems have to bribe members of their own party to pass it also should tell even the biggest Obamabots among us that there's something wrong with it.

Not only that, but Obama had to butcher his own bill in order to get it passed. Not only did the majority of Americans not want it, but, at the end, Obama didn't even get the bill pass that he wanted. It's a bastardized version.

Originally Posted by DOMS

Not only did the majority of Americans not want it, but, at the end, Obama didn't even get the bill pass that he wanted.

how do you figure when that was one of the major selling points of his campaign? straight up lies (Palin & death panels) and deception from the GOP turned many people against something so really didn't understand.

Originally Posted by LAM

how do you figure when that was one of the major selling points of his campaign?

I have no idea what you're trying to say here.

Originally Posted by LAM

straight up lies (Palin & death panels) and deception from the GOP turned many people against something so really didn't understand.

Lies? You mean like Obama saying that he's going to get rid of special interest groups and then hiring nothing but RIAA lawyers into his administration? Like that? Or did you mean how he said that he would end the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, but didn't? Or do you mean like how he said that he close GITMO, but didn't? Stuff like that?

All of which has nothing to do with the fact that he had to do tons of back room deals (with big pharmco) and bill butchering to get the Republicans to back his bill. He was less concerned with passing a bill that would help Americans and more concerned with passing a bill that he can call his "legacy."

Originally Posted by DOMS

I have no idea what you're trying to say here.



Lies? You mean like Obama saying that he's going to get rid of special interest groups and then hiring nothing but RIAA lawyers into his administration? Like that? Or did you mean how he said that he would end the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, but didn't? Or do you mean like how he said that he close GITMO, but didn't? Stuff like that?

All of which has nothing to do with the fact that he had to do tons of back room deals (with big pharmco) and bill butchering to get the Republicans to back his bill. He was less concerned with passing a bill that would help Americans and more concerned with passing a bill that he can call his "legacy."

The troops excited Iraq in accordance with the plan that the Dems drew up and Bush signed before leaving office.

Bill Summary & Status - 110th Congress (2007 - 2008) - S.433 - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

Healthcare "reform" was one of the key selling points during his campaign. the POTUS is powerless over lobbyists and special interest groups w/o the full support of the Senate and Congress who are responsible for the actual passing of legislation that allows change to occur.

What people don't realize is the Obama's bill which will force people to have health insurance by 2014 is a good thing. The requirement spreads risk more broadly, controlling insurance premiums for everyone and allowing federal government to prohibit insurers from denying coverage to higher-risk Americans with preexisting medical conditions.

90% of campaign contributions from insurance providers, etc. go to Republicans so it's very easy to see why they are so against it. The only states fighting Obama's healthcare reform are those with GOP governors.

i don't have insurance....i don't want it either.....i'll sit before i'll purchase or accept any "forced" plan.....solve the medicare plan....send all the old people to prison clinics!!! they'll get better care and it won't cost as much

Obama campaigned on true healthcare reform, in particular that all Americans would have access to the same quality Healthcare that members of Congress have access to right now. The monstrosity, hodgepodge of compromise and compulsory purchase of private insurance is not what he campaigned on. The "death panels" are what they are, whether you like the term or not.

the obamacare bill will soon be invalid because of the term "illegal immigrants" in the bill....the National Society of Journalists want the use of that term made illegal......i think i just found a way to get rid of this bill lol!!!

Originally Posted by irish_2003

the obamacare bill will soon be invalid because of the term "illegal immigrants" in the bill....the National Society of Journalists want the use of that term made illegal......i think i just found a way to get rid of this bill lol!!!

causing 30 million people to lose health care coverage and eliminating the doughnut hole for seniors by reducing cost of brand name drugs by 50%...this helps who exactly? this is good why?

seniors DON'T NEED THESE DRUGS THEY"RE BEING PRESCRIBED.......americans need to get rid of their dependency on pharmaceuticals........it's amazing how these drugs are pushed through and then 2 years later is a lawsuit commercial.......we're spoonfed that we need to be medicated for everything......i think i need to medicated better so i can deal with this administration

When you refer to 30 million losing healthcare coverage, are you referring to illegals or american citizens? If you are referring to illegals, they have no business receiving a dime's worth of any entitlement program on the taxpayers' dime. So, if that's what you are referring to, that part benefits all 300 million of us.

The whole GOP repeal effort is nothing but posturing for the 2012 election...we all know its not going to be repealed in the end. freaking DC bureaucrats, what a joke

Originally Posted by GearsMcGilf

When you refer to 30 million losing healthcare coverage, are you referring to illegals or american citizens? If you are referring to illegals, they have no business receiving a dime's worth of any entitlement program on the taxpayers' dime. So, if that's what you are referring to, that part benefits all 300 million of us.

honestly I'm not sure the Census hasn't tracked individual’s citizenship or legal status as a resident on the form since 1980. all numbers of illegals in the US are basically estimates according to Pew only about 55% are from Mexico

Originally Posted by lnvanry

The whole GOP repeal effort is nothing but posturing for the 2012 election...we all know its not going to be repealed in the end. freaking DC bureaucrats, what a joke

It has to do with the commerce clause in the constitution which allows congress to regulate commerce between the states, etc. health care or health insurance is a service, that is not debatable. the person is not forced to buy health insurance for a specific company or plan, they have options depending on what's offered by employers.

Hawaii has had near universal "employer mandated" health insurance since 1974. everyone in the state has primary care coverage and they have the lowest co-pay, premiums and the lowest costs of medicare beneficiary in the country, because of preventive health-care from child hood. the poor/un-insured don't have to go to the ER when they are sick, which reduces all sorts of costs and expenditures.

the medicare bill signed by Bush which allowed the formation of health savings accounts (HSA) was designed to allow persons to save monies for future health care expenses on a tax free bases. while this may look good on paper the majority of the middle class can't afford it or at least not maxing out yearly contributions. traditional IRA's can be rolled over into HSA and the maximum yearly contributions I believe are higher than traditional IRAs and at death those monies go the the beneficiary, estate, etc. high wage earners can not contribute to traditional IRA's but they can to HSAs even if they have an employer sponsored retirement plan, etc. some say this was simply another way for the rich to be able to save more money and pay less taxes along with making it harder for the formation of any type of "socialized" healthcare in the US since HSAs are basically controlled by the account holder.

as with just about everything in the US, it's all about the almighty $

Originally Posted by LAM

The troops excited Iraq in accordance with the plan that the Dems drew up and Bush signed before leaving office.

Bill Summary & Status - 110th Congress (2007 - 2008) - S.433 - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

And Obama has increased the US troop presense in Afghanistan. Great job ending those wars.

Originally Posted by LAM

Healthcare "reform" was one of the key selling points during his campaign. the POTUS is powerless over lobbyists and special interest groups w/o the full support of the Senate and Congress who are responsible for the actual passing of legislation that allows change to occur.

Which is yet another thing that the inexperienced Obama didn't know. But that didn't stop him from making it a big part of his campaign. Along with other promises that he made and broke, because it was someone else's fault, I'm sure.

Originally Posted by LAM

What people don't realize is the Obama's bill which will force people to have health insurance by 2014 is a good thing.

Despite the fact that many informed people have give reasons why it's not. Such as the billions spent in administration costs and the fact that it's open to illegals. Which is something you keep trying to ignore. It's been opened to illegals on purpose. "In fact, lawmakers have blocked language specifically designed to ensure illegal aliens could not access the proposed health care system."

Originally Posted by LAM

The requirement spreads risk more broadly, controlling insurance premiums for everyone and allowing federal government to prohibit insurers from denying coverage to higher-risk Americans with preexisting medical conditions.

I could almost get behind this. If I didn't know that Obama had to make backroom deals (a euphemism for making deals without the publics knowledge) with big pharma. Maybe this is true and that it hasn't been perverted into something that benefits the medical companies. Here's hoping.

Originally Posted by LAM

90% of campaign contributions from insurance providers, etc. go to Republicans so it's very easy to see why they are so against it. The only states fighting Obama's healthcare reform are those with GOP governors.

You are either lying or uninformed.

List of states with Republican or Democrat governors. List of states fighting the reform (usually through lawsuits by state attorney generals or state constitutional amendments). So I'm to believe that California, Colorado, Pennsylvania, and Washington (to name some) are Republican states?

Even in states that are traditionally Republican, Obama had to make special deals with Democratic senators to get their backing.

Cornhusker Kickback: Perhaps the most well known in the Senate bill, the provision, included at the behest of Sen. Ben Nelson (D-NE), ensures that Nebraska would be the only state to have the full amount of its increased Medicaid costs paid for by the federal government.

The Louisiana Purchase: The Senate bill provides extra Medicaid funding for any state in which every county has been declared a disaster area. Because of Hurricane Katrina, Louisiana is the only state that would qualify for the money. The $300 million provision for Louisiana was slipped in late in the process to persuade Sen. Mary Landrieu (D-LA) to support the health care takeover.

Gator Aid: At the request of Sen. Bill Nelson (D-Fl), the Senate bill includes a formula for protecting certain Medicare Advantage enrollees from billions in cuts. The formula would only apply to five states, most notably to Florida in which 800,000 of the state's one million Medicare Advantage users would be exempt from cuts.

And more spending/kickbacks to get it passed by Democrats in traditionally Democratic states:

New England Handouts: In addition to the $100 million included in federal Medicaid payments for Nebraska, the bill provides two New England states with even more money Medicaid funding. According to CBO, the Senate bill now contains about $600 million in extra Medicaid cash to Vermont, and about $500 million in additional money for Medicaid to Massachusetts, making these three states the only to receive such funding. Despite claims that these cushy extras for a few states would be scaled back, reports indicate that the White House is still making deals so these states can keep the handouts.

The Dodd Clinic: Section 10502(a) of the bill provides $100 million for construction at an unnamed "health care facility" affiliated with an academic health center at a public research university in a state with only one public academic medical and dental school. Senator Chris Dodd (D-CT) later sent a press release saying that he was securing the money for the University of Connecticut, and then Dodd bragged that, "These provisions will bring millions of dollars to the state so that Connecticut's residents can receive quality, affordable health care."

And that's just the stuff we know about now.

Yes, it's clearly the Republicans who are bought out...

Originally Posted by LAM

Hawaii has had near universal "employer mandated" health insurance since 1974.

Because Hawaii is just like Georgia... Oh, god...

Originally Posted by DOMS

And Obama has increased the US troop presense in Afghanistan. Great job ending those wars.



Which is yet another thing that the inexperienced Obama didn't know. But that didn't stop him from making it a big part of his campaign. Along with other promises that he made and broke, because it was someone else's fault, I'm sure.



Despite the fact that many informed people have give reasons why it's not. Such as the billions spent in administration costs and the fact that it's open to illegals. Which is something you keep trying to ignore. It's been opened to illegals on purpose. "In fact, lawmakers have blocked language specifically designed to ensure illegal aliens could not access the proposed health care system."



I could almost get behind this. If I didn't know that Obama had to make backroom deals (a euphemism for making deals without the publics knowledge) with big pharma. Maybe this is true and that it hasn't been perverted into something that benefits the medical companies. Here's hoping.



You are either lying or uninformed.

List of states with Republican or Democrat governors. List of states fighting the reform (usually through lawsuits by state attorney generals or state constitutional amendments). So I'm to believe that California, Colorado, Pennsylvania, and Washington (to name some) are Republican states?

Even in states that are traditionally Republican, Obama had to make special deals with Democratic senators to get their backing.

And more spending/kickbacks to get it passed by Democrats in traditionally Democratic states:
And that's just the stuff we know about now.

Yes, it's clearly the Republicans who are bought out...

of course the Dems make backroom deals, they all do. the main difference is the deals made by the Dems actually benefit people, while the deals and economic policies made by the GOP mainly only big businesses and the top 2%.

illegals regardless of there country of origin if you have kept up with the subject you would see that less (from Mexico) are leaving even because of the downturn in the economy because it is getting harder to leave the country from down south. and as with everyone in this country they have access to emergency room care but not primary care, not quite sure why so many just can't comprehend that.

the US is the only country with a for profit health care system and according the the last WHO report our heathcare system ranks below Cuba at #17. in 2009 50% of all personal bankruptcies in the US were due to medical expenses according to data on the IRS website.

Originally Posted by LAM

of course the Dems make backroom deals, they all do. the main difference is the deals made by the Dems actually benefit people, while the deals and economic policies made by the GOP mainly only big businesses and the top 2%.

So speaketh the acolyte of Black Jesus. Thy sect can do no wrong.

Originally Posted by LAM

illegals regardless of there country of origin if you have kept up with the subject you would see that less (from Mexico) are leaving even because of the downturn in the economy because it is getting harder to leave the country from down south. and as with everyone in this country they have access to emergency room care but not primary care, not quite sure why so many just can't comprehend that.

Which compleetly ignores the fact that they're already here and number in the 10s of millions. But that's okay since they're already here and only coming in some number less than 600,000 a year.

What's stopping you from understanding that they'll have more access to services that they have no right to? But since they're getting some, why not give more?

Originally Posted by LAM

the US is the only country with a for profit health care system and according the the last WHO report our heathcare system ranks below Cuba at #17.

And how much better would it be without 10s of millions of illegals from leaching on it?

Cuba? With a population of only a 11 million? That country? The one that has an open and citizen friendly government that wouldn't ever lie about it's statistics? That one? You mean the country that has legions that are willing to risk their lives to get out of it and into the USA? That one? Because I can't imagine that you're talking about that Cuba.

The vast majority of the countries "above" the USA are countries so small that they barely qualify as a single state in the USA and some so small that they only qualify as a city in the USA. Add to that the propensity of European countries to fudge the numbers way more than the USA does (see infant deaths).

Originally Posted by LAM

in 2009 50% of all personal bankruptcies in the US were due to medical expenses according to data on the IRS website.

One has to wonder what the percentage of deaths across the world are for those that don't have access to health care...

Originally Posted by DOMS

Which compleetly ignores the fact that they're already here and number in the 10s of millions. But that's okay since they're already here and only coming in some number less than 600,000 a year.

What's stopping you from understanding that they'll have more access to services that they have no right to? But since they're getting some, why not give more?



And how much better would it be without 10s of millions of illegals from leaching on it?

honestly I could care less about illegals when it comes to this topic, my concern is for US Citizens. but the fact remains that even those illegals that are here regardless of their country of origin that do have access to "preventive" health care statistically will be healthier in their old age, costing less in the future.

Doing nothing is never a solution to a problem. the US has some of the highest death rates due to preventable illnesses.

PREVENTABLE WASTE OF LIFE, January 20, 2010, 303 (3): 282 — JAMA

Among Rich Nations, U.S. Has Highest Rate of Preventable Deaths - Bloomberg

I have a serious question. 2 months ago, wasn't the GOP slamming Obama for focusing on healthcare when jobs were the issue the people cared about? I guess I missed the memo that we were back on to healthcare, I guess they already solved that pesky 10% unemployment issue.


and to irish...

Originally Posted by irish_2003

i don't have insurance....i don't want it either.....i'll sit before i'll purchase or accept any "forced" plan.....solve the medicare plan....send all the old people to prison clinics!!! they'll get better care and it won't cost as much

Who do you think pays for you if you get into an accident and get $2.5million in medical bills? I'd like to know your monthly payment on that. This is why our healthcare costs are so high. And how self-destructive could you be to not want this when you have no insurance, all it would take is a few chemo treatments and the hospital would own every possession you have and your ability to become financially successful for the next 7 years would end with your first bankruptcy. You do realize when the rich folk talk about "those people" in the healthcare debate they're not referring to other people, they're talking about you.

Originally Posted by LAM

honestly I could care less about illegals when it comes to this topic, my concern is for US Citizens. but the fact remains that even those illegals that are here regardless of their country of origin that do have access to "preventive" health care statistically will be healthier in their old age, costing less in the future.

Not really thinking this through, huh?

The stream of illegals that besiege this country will turn into torrent when they learn that they can get free health care. Then the system will collapse.

So yes, please tell me again how illegals don't matter.

Originally Posted by LAM

Doing nothing is never a solution to a problem. the US has some of the highest death rates due to preventable illnesses.

There is a huge difference between the mess that Obama is pushing and doing something truly productive. Instead of socialised medicine, it would make more sense to truly regulate the health care industry. Plus, frivolous medical lawsuits need to come to an end. Doctors spend way too much on medical insurance.

The health care industry has fought tooth and nail to prevent the level of regulation that is needed, but they gave in easily to Obamacare. Why is that? Oh, it's because the former caps their profits, while the later will raise it.

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

I have a serious question. 2 months ago, wasn't the GOP slamming Obama for focusing on healthcare when jobs were the issue the people cared about? I guess I missed the memo that we were back on to healthcare, I guess they already solved that pesky 10% unemployment issue.

Lowering unemployment is a lot harder than stopping a piece of shitting legislation.

Originally Posted by LAM

of course the Dems make backroom deals, they all do. the main difference is the deals made by the Dems actually benefit people

Oh, and I almost forgot:

Originally Posted by DOMS

Not really thinking this through, huh?

The stream of illegals that besiege this country will turn into torrent when they learn that they can get free health care. Then the system will collapse.

So yes, please tell me again how illegals don't matter.



There is a huge difference between the mess that Obama is pushing and doing something truly productive. Instead of socialised medicine, it would make more sense to truly regulate the health care industry. Plus, frivolous medical lawsuits need to come to an end. Doctors spend way too much on medical insurance.

The health care industry has fought tooth and nail to prevent the level of regulation that is needed, but they gave in easily to Obamacare. Why is that? Oh, it's because the former caps their profits, while the later will raise it.

how exactly does an illegal with no job or "employer" get primary health care?

to date the GOP has not written or supported any real type of health care reform or legislation that does not directly benefit the pockets of providers. Not many will argue that the bill passed by Obama isn't perfect but some reform is better than none and that's all the GOP ever offers. if we don't pay for health care now by providing preventive care we will pay triple in the future.