The F-35 Fighter Jet Welfare Fiasco

**Big Smoothy** · 01-14-2011, 08:53 AM

All this talk about...."cutting spending." "The National Debt is a problem."

The usual suspects are named in this article: Lockheed-Martin, BAE Systems, Northrup-Grumman and more.

Price tag: $382 billion dollars minimum - that we know of. And it's a stinker. "Design Problems." Note the GOP and Obama promising to cut $100 million. 1 plane is $92 million.

--

F-35 looking more like white elephant

by Mathieu Rabechault – Thu Jan 13 WASHINGTON (AFP) – The F-35 fighter jet, set to replace a large part of the US warplane fleet, has become the most expensive weapons program ever, drawing increased scrutiny at a time of tight public finances.

Following a series of cost overruns and delays, the program is now expected to cost a whopping 382 billion dollars, for 2,443 aircraft.

The so-called 5th generation fighter was built with features designed to help avoid enemy radar and ensure American supremacy in the skies for decades.

But there is now the potential for competition from China, which this week unveiled its first radar-evading combat aircraft and fueled a sense of a military rivalry between the two powers.

At home, the Lockheed Martin F-35 is getting increased criticism even from some at the Pentagon.

Defense officials say the original cost estimates have now doubled to make each plane's price tag reach some 92 million dollars.

At the same time, the contract awarded in 2001 had been planned to last 10 years, but has been extended to 2016 because of testing and design issues.

Lockheed Martin, which is working with Northrop Grumman and BAE Systems, is developing three versions of the aircraft, which are being designed for ground attack as well as reconnaissance missions.

The F-35A is designed to replace the F-16 and A-10 of the US Air Force, while the F-35C is designed for deployment on aircraft carriers to supplant to F-18, and the F-35B would have a vertical takeoff capacity and replace Harrier aircraft.

US Defense Secretary Robert Gates has warned the cost overruns cannot continue and expressed particular concern over the short take-off and vertical landing variant.

"The culture of endless money that has taken hold must be replaced by a culture of restraint," he said recently.

Entire: F-35 looking more like white elephant - Yahoo! News

**vortrit** · 01-14-2011, 10:28 AM

I want one.

**maniclion** · 01-14-2011, 02:43 PM

If these things can't go to the moon and back they are a waste of money.......I heard that soon we will be warring over the moon and other planetary bodies, we gotta be ahead of the competition.....

**hagaroids** · 01-14-2011, 02:53 PM

mere pocket change.

**ZECH** · 01-14-2011, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by maniclion

we gotta be ahead of the competition.....

This^^
With the announcment of China's stealth plane, the US will kick back into gear in being the best in the air. They were only suppose to make 80 or so raptors, but now that number will go up. Watch spending go thru the roof.
Gotta do it.

**PreMier** · 01-14-2011, 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by Big Smoothy

All this talk about...."cutting spending." "The National Debt is a problem."

The usual suspects are named in this article: Lockheed-Martin, BAE Systems, Northrup-Grumman and more.

Price tag: $382 billion dollars minimum - that we know of. And it's a stinker. "Design Problems." Note the GOP and Obama promising to cut $100 million. 1 plane is $92 million.

--

Entire: F-35 looking more like white elephant - Yahoo! News

Visualizing Obama's budget cuts. [VIDEO]

**Big Smoothy** · 01-14-2011, 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by dg806

This^^
With the announcment of China's stealth plane, the US will kick back into gear in being the best in the air. They were only suppose to make 80 or so raptors, but now that number will go up. Watch spending go thru the roof.
Gotta do it.

The "China rival" and "China threat" line is laughable.

A lot of this started before the last mid-term election.

China's rising GDP growth (threat), high test scores in Shanghai (threat) and now, China made a jet (copied) that has alleged problems (threat).

Another excuse to funnel more taxpayer money into these companies.

Nothing with with defense and weaponry and R & D, it's the the amount of it, and the supposed reasons for it.

There always has to be a bogey-man.

**ROID** · 01-15-2011, 04:21 AM

Well if tax money is going to be wasted then I would prefer it get wasted on the military and technology.

It's not like they would give back the tax payer's money, they would just spend it on some other bullshit.

**Big Smoothy** · 01-15-2011, 05:50 AM

Originally Posted by ROID

Well if tax money is going to be wasted then I would prefer it get wasted on the military and technology.

It's not like they would give back the tax payer's money, they would just spend it on some other bullshit.

It's all apart of taking too much to begin with.

The Military Industrial Complex is a powerful machine.

It's takes money out of your pocket.

They are just as bad and corrupt as the banks on Wall St.

**ROID** · 01-15-2011, 06:37 AM

Originally Posted by Big Smoothy

It's all apart of taking too much to begin with.

The Military Industrial Complex is a powerful machine.

It's takes money out of your pocket.

They are just as bad and corrupt as the banks on Wall St.

I agree.

I would like to see the break down of the 93million per aircraft.

I bet there would be a lot of bogus expenses.

**Big Smoothy** · 01-15-2011, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by ROID

I agree.

I would like to see the break down of the 93million per aircraft.

I bet there would be a lot of bogus expenses.

Spot-on, ROID.

There should be a break down, and we - who are paying for it - should know where this $$$ is going.

Won't happen though. This....is disgusting.

**Dark Geared God** · 01-15-2011, 02:34 PM

I'm sure bush had sum thang to do with it

**vortrit** · 01-15-2011, 02:40 PM

**Dark Geared God** · 01-15-2011, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by vortrit

**ROID** · 01-15-2011, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by Big Smoothy

Spot-on, ROID.

There should be a break down, and we - who are paying for it - should know where this $$$ is going.

Won't happen though. This....is disgusting.

I just made up my mind to stop watching political news and stop listening to talk radio. It just upsets me what goes on with our government.

I think any elected official's sole purpose is to just to do things that benefit themselves and their friends and the other 99% of the population just gets screwed over year after year. Our government is a joke to me.

Something kind of interesting. Sara submitted an application to the CIA a while back. She speaks Arabic so she would be a good candidate. Part of her interview involved her watching BBC news to keep up with current events and reporting what she watched in phone interviews with a guy. I guess the point was no American news agency is legitimate and you can't trust anything they say when it comes to politics or world events.

Off the wall but I thought it was interesting. Hell, maybe she got the job and the CIA is after my gears.

**maniclion** · 01-15-2011, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by dg806

This^^
With the announcment of China's stealth plane, the US will kick back into gear in being the best in the air. They were only suppose to make 80 or so raptors, but now that number will go up. Watch spending go thru the roof.
Gotta do it.

I was somewhat serious about being able to fly into space....You know the privately owned SpaceShipOne cost what 35mil.... If our pilots could sit on stand-by in orbit at a spacestation it would save us a whole lot of money and allow closure of some airbases.....

I'm also worried about what we are stocking up for with that many new jets?

**PreMier** · 01-15-2011, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by maniclion

I was somewhat serious about being able to fly into space....You know the privately owned SpaceShipOne cost what 35mil.... If our pilots could sit on stand-by in orbit at a spacestation it would save us a whole lot of money and allow closure of some airbases.....

I'm also worried about what we are stocking up for with that many new jets?

war.

i still dont understand the f35.. the f22 is a superior fighter jet in the air. i guess they just want to get rid of all the 15's and 18's?

**min0 lee** · 01-15-2011, 04:31 PM

I never had respect for the Chinese when it comes to making anything, the Japanese I can trust more.
Since I was a kid they were known for making inferior copies of American and Europe products.
Originality isn't part of their culture, neither is quality control.
Top 10 Chinese rip offs

Top 10 Chinese Knockoff Netbooks » M.I.C. Gadget

Google=Goojje

Full List
CHINESE FAKES
HiPhone and APhone A6
iPed
Goojje
Nat Nat Shoes
Shanzhai Street
China's White Houses
China's Next Top Model
Shanghai's World Expo Song
China's Fine-Art Factory
Huanhai Landscape VA3 and Lifan 320

Read more: Full List - Top 10 Chinese Knockoffs - TIME

**Big Smoothy** · 01-15-2011, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by ROID

I just made up my mind to stop watching political news and stop listening to talk radio. It just upsets me what goes on with our government.

Good on you.

I stopped watching TV sometimes in mid 2004.

I stopped listening to political talk radio earlier than that.

The political TV and radio shows are shallow, emotional, and designed to make people angry.

Ratings drive the silliness.

And there's a lot of misinformation on those programs.

**OfficerFarva** · 01-15-2011, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by min0 lee

I never had respect for the Chinese when it comes to making anything, the Japanese I can trust more.
Since I was a kid they were known for making inferior copies of American and Europe products.
Originality isn't part of their culture, neither is quality control.
Top 10 Chinese rip offs

Top 10 Chinese Knockoff Netbooks » M.I.C. Gadget

Google=Goojje

Full List
CHINESE FAKES
HiPhone and APhone A6
iPed
Goojje
Nat Nat Shoes
Shanzhai Street
China's White Houses
China's Next Top Model
Shanghai's World Expo Song
China's Fine-Art Factory
Huanhai Landscape VA3 and Lifan 320

Read more: Full List - Top 10 Chinese Knockoffs - TIME

When I was at work I was talking with the guys and told them I was buying an Iphone4. One of them told me he could get me one for dirt cheap so I told him to bring it and I'll check it out. I didn't ask how he got it for cheap but when I seen it I discovered how. The case it came in and the the hardware it self looked exactly like an Iphone4 and even felt like one. Than I booted it up and it had some really shitty software running on it. I told him he could keep it.

**DOMS** · 01-15-2011, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by min0 lee

I never had respect for the Chinese when it comes to making anything

Chinese quality control is absolute shit. You think the Osprey had a bad track record? Just wait until those thing drop every other flight.

It's kinda hard to be stealthy when you're burning up in a rice field.

**min0 lee** · 01-15-2011, 06:05 PM

LOL...I would worry more about them malfunctioning than an actual attack.

**theCaptn'** · 01-15-2011, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by Big Smoothy

The "China rival" and "China threat" line is laughable.

.

werd . . Big Smoothy and other jews are the real threat. Roll in the pork bombers I say

**Big Smoothy** · 01-16-2011, 02:05 AM

Originally Posted by theCaptn'

werd . . Big Smoothy and other jews are the real threat. Roll in the pork bombers I say

I have no Jewish relatives in my family tree, on both sides of my family.

I'm pure Goyim.

**ROID** · 01-16-2011, 04:57 AM

Originally Posted by Big Smoothy

Good on you.

I stopped watching TV sometimes in mid 2004.

I stopped listening to political talk radio earlier than that.

The political TV and radio shows are shallow, emotional, and designed to make people angry.

Ratings drive the silliness.

And there's a lot of misinformation on those programs.

Fox news runs smear campaigns against democrats and MSN runs smear campaigns against republicans. It's nothing to do with news anymore.

**min0 lee** · 01-16-2011, 06:49 AM

Originally Posted by ROID

Fox news runs smear campaigns against democrats and MSN runs smear campaigns against republicans. It's nothing to do with news anymore.

This.

**Curt James** · 01-16-2011, 07:06 AM

Originally Posted by ROID

I agree.

I would like to see the break down of the 93million per aircraft.

I bet there would be a lot of bogus expenses.

Department of Defense or Department of Money Sucking? | Dailycensored.com

And this might bring a few laughs (or tears).

There was a man who computed his taxes for 1997 and found that he owed $3407. He packaged up his payment and included this letter:

Dear IRS:

Enclosed is my 1997 Tax Return & payment. Please take note of the attached article from the USA Today newspaper. In the article, you will see that the Pentagon is paying $171.50 for hammers and NASA has paid $600.00 for a toilet seat.

Please find enclosed four toilet seats (value $2400) and six hammers (value $1029).

This brings my total payment to $3429.00. Please note the overpayment of $22.00 and apply it to the 'Presidential Election Fund', as noted on my return. Might I suggest you the send the above mentioned fund a '1.5 inch screw'. (See attached article - HUD paid $22.00 for a 1.5 inch Phillips Head Screw.)

It has been a pleasure to pay my tax bill this year, and I look forward to paying it again next year. I just saw an article about the Pentagon and 'screwdrivers'.

Sincerely,
I. Getscrewed Everyear

**ROID** · 01-16-2011, 07:17 AM

Originally Posted by Curt James

Department of Defense or Department of Money Sucking? | Dailycensored.com

And this might bring a few laughs (or tears).

There was a man who computed his taxes for 1997 and found that he owed $3407. He packaged up his payment and included this letter:

Dear IRS:

Enclosed is my 1997 Tax Return & payment. Please take note of the attached article from the USA Today newspaper. In the article, you will see that the Pentagon is paying $171.50 for hammers and NASA has paid $600.00 for a toilet seat.

Please find enclosed four toilet seats (value $2400) and six hammers (value $1029).

This brings my total payment to $3429.00. Please note the overpayment of $22.00 and apply it to the 'Presidential Election Fund', as noted on my return. Might I suggest you the send the above mentioned fund a '1.5 inch screw'. (See attached article - HUD paid $22.00 for a 1.5 inch Phillips Head Screw.)

It has been a pleasure to pay my tax bill this year, and I look forward to paying it again next year. I just saw an article about the Pentagon and 'screwdrivers'.

Sincerely,
I. Getscrewed Everyear

lol......

if it only worked that way

**Big Smoothy** · 01-16-2011, 11:01 AM

Let me clarify:

I stopped watching TV entirely sometime - at some point - in 2004.

Cheers. From a Yank, American.

**Curt James** · 01-16-2011, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by Big Smoothy

Let me clarify:

I stopped watching TV entirely sometime - at some point - in 2004.

Cheers. From a Yank, American.

With you on that count, Big Smoothy. I canceled cable when I turned 40. That was 2002. Of course with the same or similar content on the Internet it's not such a sacrifice at all.

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