Thread: The US Dollar

Ok, in simple terms, what can we do to prepare for this? Should we spend all of our money? Save it? Buy gold? Buy guns? Rack up credit card debt and not pay it?

Barter, it's smarter.

what you mean the 1st and 2nd Gulf War's weren't about "Democracy"?

the dollar would be so much stronger if we hadn't let manufacturing levels drop below 50% and kept a trade surplus going. greed, sociopathic CEO's and making the big buck now at the expense of the countries future is what killed the country.

I'm a big fan of US dollars. I have a little. I keep them in a jar on my refrigerator. I wanna put more in that jar. That's where you come in.

Originally Posted by LAM

what you mean the 1st and 2nd Gulf War's weren't about "Democracy"?

the dollar would be so much stronger if we hadn't let manufacturing levels drop below 50% and kept a trade surplus going. greed, sociopathic CEO's and making the big buck now at the expense of the countries future is what killed the country.

Unilateralism and special interest groups.

Originally Posted by LAM

what you mean the 1st and 2nd Gulf War's weren't about "Democracy"?

the dollar would be so much stronger if we hadn't let manufacturing levels drop below 50% and kept a trade surplus going. greed, sociopathic CEO's and making the big buck now at the expense of the countries future is what killed the country.

They were about 'democracy' in terms of creating a government that would allow the implementation of western capitalism/US free market as their economic structure. Not saying thats an entirely negative thing, but that's what they wanted to achieve.

Completely agree with the second point. Although, it has been proven that vertical investment by US manufacturing firms actually increases US employment levels in that industry.

Originally Posted by LAM

what you mean the 1st and 2nd Gulf War's weren't about "Democracy"?

the dollar would be so much stronger if we hadn't let manufacturing levels drop below 50% and kept a trade surplus going. greed, sociopathic CEO's and making the big buck now at the expense of the countries future is what killed the country.

Note the part in bold.

I feel the same way. I have begun using the past tense.

Meaning, it's over, and there's no turning back at this point.

Guns,God and ammo?

Our biggest export is trash... what does that say about us as a producing nation?
America

I didn't favor bailing out GM no more than the Repub's Tarp plan but at least GM is now selling more of their crappy cars to Chinamen than Americans....

Originally Posted by bandaidwoman

Our biggest export is trash... what does that say about us as a producing nation?
America

It says that most of the rest of the world is the US' trash can.

Originally Posted by Big Smoothy

I feel the same way. I have begun using the past tense.

Meaning, it's over, and there's no turning back at this point.

history has already shown us that when people (corporations are technically people) are in places of high power and accumulate great wealth it is never relinquished freely. unregulated capitalism, free markets, etc. all sound and look good on paper, but once you factor in the human condition and greed it all goes to shit always has and always will...human beings in general are a rather unsavory bunch when compared to just about every other life-form on the planet.

DOOM DOOM DOOM.

I get tired of hearing all these dooms day scenarios. Not worth the headache to worry.

It could collapse (although I highly doubt it)...but its highly unlikely as long as the world still uses the USD as its currency reserve.

OPEC fully supports petrodollars for many many reason...its a mutually beneficial relationship and I don't see OPEC nations (with the exception of Iran and Venezuela) turning their back on the US policy...after all, we are those countries FIRST and LAST line of defense.

I don't think these USD doomsdayers understand how much US treasuries and USDs are in demand. There is NO good alternative except for commodities that are becoming a bubble in themselves. The USD does not have to play by conventional rules regarding monetary expansion...other countries may not like it, but they have to play by it.

I LOLed at the NK, Iran, Venezuela, and Syria examples....Those are the ONLY examples and its b/c we have an embargo against them, lol. His facts are right, but this author is drawing poor conclusion

The Chinese Yuan is barely on the map...the Ruble isn't on the map at all. The only other currency that is close to challenging the USD is the Euro...and we all know its current situation.


Page 26
http://aric.adb.org/grs/papers/Lee.pdf

Originally Posted by Captdick

Guns,God and ammo?

First 100 Items to Disappear after Collapse

Originally Posted by lnvanry

The Chinese Yuan is barely on the map...the Ruble isn't on the map at all. The only other currency that is close to challenging the USD is the Euro...and we all know its current situation.


Page 26
http://aric.adb.org/grs/papers/Lee.pdf

Nothing you've posted so far makes the US sounds like Nazi Germany or portents the fall of the USA. Therefore, quite simply, it cannot be correct.

Originally Posted by lnvanry

It could collapse (although I highly doubt it)...but its highly unlikely as long as the world still uses the USD as its currency reserve.

OPEC fully supports petrodollars for many many reason...its a mutually beneficial relationship and I don't see OPEC nations (with the exception of Iran and Venezuela) turning their back on the US policy...after all, we are those countries FIRST and LAST line of defense.

There has been a dimishing faith, IMO. These countries, very slowly, and minutely, has reduced USD reserves. No one has faith in the USD medium or long term.

I don't think these USD doomsdayers understand how much US treasuries and USDs are in demand.[/quote]

short-term haven.

Originally Posted by LAM

history has already shown us that when people (corporations are technically people)

In the 1860s, a US Supreme Court cases established corporations (legally) as individuals.

Bad.

Originally Posted by DOMS

It says that most of the rest of the world is the US' trash can.

True, but also how innovative they are in recycling and then transforming it into further exports and making tons of money with very little supply overhead http://hamptonroads.com/2010/03/our-...es-chinas-cash for a short spell I worked in recycling chemistry and we really are overlooking a cheap commodity source to produce products. No need to mine, cut down trees, dig for the metal etc.


I think this country only recycles 1% of its trash for the above.

Originally Posted by bandaidwoman

True, but also how innovative they are in recycling and then transforming it into further exports and making tons of money with very little supply overhead Our trash becomes China's cash | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com for a short spell I worked in recycling chemistry and we really are overlooking a cheap commodity source to produce products. No need to mine, cut down trees, dig for the metal etc.


I think this country only recycles 1% of its trash for the above.

Yeah, or they end up like Ghana and Nigeria.

Originally Posted by lnvanry

I don't think these USD doomsdayers understand how much US treasuries and USDs are in demand. There is NO good alternative except for commodities that are becoming a bubble in themselves. The USD does not have to play by conventional rules regarding monetary expansion...other countries may not like it, but they have to play by it.

the US has been living off of credit for the past 60 years eventually it will run out, we are already starting to pay for a "lifestyle" that most never could have afforded with out government subsidy in one form or another (budget deficit) . with manufacturing down to what 13% of the jobs as a country we offer just about nothing to the world market. don't forget that dollar is backed by absolutely nothing except faith since we no longer produce anything nor is there anything in the near future of any value to be produced in the US. currently the only thing the US produces in quantity is debt, garbage and babies from unwed mothers.

Originally Posted by LAM

the US has been living off of credit for the past 60 years eventually it will run out, we are already starting to pay for a "lifestyle" that most never could have afforded with out government subsidy in one form or another (budget deficit) . with manufacturing down to what 13% of the jobs as a country we offer just about nothing to the world market. don't forget that dollar is backed by absolutely nothing except faith since we no longer produce anything nor is there anything in the near future of any value to be produced in the US. currently the only thing the US produces in quantity is debt, garbage and babies from unwed mothers.

Faith...this is the same faith smoothy is talking about as well:

Here is the amount of faith the world has in the USD expressed quantitatively:
Federal Reserve pays U.S. Treasury record $78.4 billion last year | cleveland.com

This is a statement depicting world demand for US treasuries. They may complain and gripe about how the world needs to move towards a basket of currencies in regards to hard currency reserves (currently the USD, EURO, Sterling Pound, and YEN)...but they choose to continue buying 1 currency above all....the USD. As long as the world continues to do this, the USD will be fine. "Actions speak louder than words"

Here is a side story worth reading:
Currency Wars: How Ben Bernanke Outsmarted China - DailyFinance

China has become aware of its image as a MASS USD consumer...hence why its covering its tracks:
Is The Chinese Government Secretly Buying U.S. Treasuries Through The UK?


I'm not saying that we have done a good job managing our manufacturing base and diversifying our economy (away from financial engineering)...I agree with all your other points. I'm just saying the "faith" is still there and its there by a large margin. Why?


The world has NO OTHER OPTION in the near-to medium term. Unless there is a global catastrophic disaster...the USD will remain the hegemon for the foreseeable future.


A final article from the PRC's equivalent of Hillary Clinton's Deputy.
U.S. power unbeatable for decades: China policy planner | Reuters

Originally Posted by lnvanry

The world has NO OTHER OPTION in the near-to medium term.

It's a simple statement, but so few, especially the chicken littles, will understand it.

It's kind of like those that hope the US "falls." Who's next? China? I bet they'll be so much better as the top dog.

Originally Posted by DOMS

It's a simple statement, but so few, especially the chicken littles, will understand it.

It's kind of like those that hope the US "falls." Who's next? China? I bet they'll be so much better as the top dog.

it's called history...the british pound was also once the world's #1 reserve currency in the 18th & 19th century and they also once ruled the world, look at them now. eventually the same will happen to the US

Here is the amount of faith the world has in the USD expressed quantitatively:
Federal Reserve pays U.S. Treasury record $78.4 billion last year | cleveland.com

Ivanry,

The number #1 holder of US treasuries is......The Federal Reserve.

More than China and Japan.

Faith? I don't think it's mostly faith, but necessity by China, and Japan....and....erm....the Fed.

Originally Posted by LAM

it's called history...the british pound was also once the world's #1 reserve currency in the 18th & 19th century and they also once ruled the world, look at them now. eventually the same will happen to the US

It took two world wars, the loss of most of it's territories, the rise of one it's former colonies, the realities of being just an island, and an industrial revolution to make that a reality.

But yeah, I can see all of that happening (to the USA) again very soon.

Also, keep in mind that neither I or Ivanry has said that it will never happen. We're saying that it's just not going to happen any time soon.

Originally Posted by DOMS

It took two world wars, the loss of most of it's territories, the rise of one it's former colonies, the realities of being just an island, and an industrial revolution to make that a reality.

But yeah, I can see all of that happening (to the USA) again very soon.

Also, keep in mind that neither I or Ivanry has said that it will never happen. We're saying that it's just not going to happen any time soon.

IMO, it will be a long while, but with one caveat: When the next form of energy is identified and produced, whichever country develops that will be rich as shit, and if it's not us, we're fucked. Look what having oil has done for the shithole that is the middle east. Outside of oppressing women and suicide bombing, oil is the only industry they have, yet look how rich they are.

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

IMO, it will be a long while, but with one caveat: When the next form of energy is identified and produced, whichever country develops that will be rich as shit, and if it's not us, we're fucked. Look what having oil has done for the shithole that is the middle east. Outside of oppressing women and suicide bombing, oil is the only industry they have, yet look how rich they are.

This still will not effect us too much short-term, or even mid-term. We can continue to use oil and produce our own.

That scenario would fuck the Middle East up as the price of oil plummets due to a drop in demand. Which I would be very happy with.