In Egypt, More Proof That George W. Bush Was Right

**min0 lee** · 02-13-2011, 06:41 AM

Two weeks of massive street protests have given Egyptians their voice and today Hosni Mubarak has heard them. If the events that led to Mubarak's resignation after 30 years as president came as a surprise to many longtime observers of the Middle East, there's one former US policymaker who has some reason to boast that he saw it coming.

President George W. Bush's Freedom Agenda was based on the notion that around the world all men share the desire for liberty. It was our founding fathers who put forth the idea that this was not merely a human aspiration but a natural right, and it was the many generations of our forefathers who fought for that right, both at home and abroad. The Arabs had not been born with that privilege.

Instead, they were ruled by princes and presidents for life whose governance amounted to little more than repression and the instruments of torture used by the various regimes' so-called security apparatuses. With no room to act freely in their political lives, it was little wonder that Arabs turned to violence and extremism.

In the wake of Sept. 11, Bush believed that freedom was not only best for the Arabs, but also a vital national interest that would keep Americans, U.S. allies and interests around the world safe from terrorism. The Freedom Agenda became the cornerstone of the Bush administration's Middle East policy.

Iraq was first on the Freedom Agenda as the 2003 invasion toppled Saddam Hussein, one of the region's bloodiest tyrants, and set in motion a democratic process — free elections, popular representation, accountability and rule by consent of the governed. With the symbolic image of the purple-stained fingers of first-time Iraqi voters still fresh in their minds, the Lebanese were next. After the assassination of former Prime Minister Rafik Hariri, more than a million Lebanese went to the streets on March 14, 2005, to demand their freedom, sovereignty and independence. And suddenly, after years of occupation, Syrian troops were gone from Lebanon. The Bush administration even scored a success in Egypt, where the White House got Mubarak to hold what were the country's freest presidential elections ever, up until now anyway.

The Freedom Agenda's worst setbacks were, paradoxically, an index of its success. In the 2006 Palestinian Authority elections, the electorate brought to power Hamas; and in Lebanon, Hezbollah was also empowered at the polls. The administration had not anticipated that a democratic system would pave the way for parties with nondemocratic ideas.

The unfortunate fact is that assuming Mubarak does keep to his word and step down come September, we may see something similar happen in Egypt, where the Muslim Brotherhood is the most organized, if not necessarily the most popular, party in the country. In Lebanon, Hezbollah has taken over the government, and Iraq is perhaps teetering on the verge of another round of violence. In other words, the Freedom Agenda's scorecard is mixed.

So was Bush right? In one sense, it will be years, perhaps decades or even longer before we can have an accurate accounting. It is worth recalling that all these nascent Arab democracies are just now taking root in a part of the world with a culture and history many times older than that of the United States, arguably the world's oldest democracy. This is a messy process, democracy, and intentionally so. It is not by any means a perfect system, but it is the ideal form of governance to account for the imperfect nature of man, the political animal.

That is to say, in another sense, yes, Bush was right, and every American knows it — for it is only democracy that allows those voices not only to be heard, but to reach consensus without resorting to violence.

In Egypt, More Proof That George W. Bush Was Right : NPR

**Big Smoothy** · 02-13-2011, 08:49 AM

GWB never had a "freedom" and "democracy" agenda in the Middle East.

That was a lie - a lie to seel the Iraq war to ignorant Americans.

The US has publicly supported dictatorship in the Middle East for 90 years.

Most Americans....were too ignorant to know.

Mubarak was the number #2 recipient of economic aid from the US.

The Saud family in KSA, receives MOST aid - they just give it via the private companies like MAIN and Halliburton, Bechtel, and others.

GWB? No.

These policies by the US have been in existence since the 1920s.

If you want to learn more about this, PM me. I'll tell you where to look.

**Dale Mabry** · 02-13-2011, 09:17 AM

If the middle east keeps going in the direction it's going, I think history will be much more kind to GWB. Despite oil being the primary motivation, if those people attain democracy in the next couple of decades, the Bush Doctrine will be a success, albeit based on manipulation. Regardless of political affiliation, those people getting out from under the thumb of the dictators that run that shithole is only good for us.

**Imosted** · 02-13-2011, 09:59 AM

Originally Posted by Big Smoothy

GWB never had a "freedom" and "democracy" agenda in the Middle East.

That was a lie - a lie to seel the Iraq war to ignorant Americans.

The US has publicly supported dictatorship in the Middle East for 90 years.

Most Americans....were too ignorant to know.

Mubarak was the number #2 recipient of economic aid from the US.

The Saud family in KSA, receives MOST aid - they just give it via the private companies like MAIN and Halliburton, Bechtel, and others.

GWB? No.

These policies by the US have been in existence since the 1920s.

If you want to learn more about this, PM me. I'll tell you where to look.

^^^^this if you research you can find that Mubarak was supported by USA same for Saddam. How do you think Iraq military had the ability to fight against Iran? All the weaponry was given by USA. Sadly same story for the Osama Bin Ladin, he was involved with mujaheddin back in the 80s, when Russia invaded Afghanistan CIA and the USA government supported them by training and giving weapons to fight against Russia, Billions of dollars were given, over the years things didn't work out as USA planned, Saddam and Osama turned against their supporter.

**min0 lee** · 02-13-2011, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by Imosted

^^^^this if you research you can find that Mubarak was supported by USA same for Saddam. How do you think Iraq military had the ability to fight against Iran? All the weaponry was given by USA. Sadly same story for the Osama Bin Ladin, he was involved with mujaheddin back in the 80s, when Russia invaded Afghanistan CIA and the USA government supported them by training and giving weapons to fight against Russia, Billions of dollars were given, over the years things didn't work out as USA planned, Saddam and Osama turned against their supporter.

Nothing new here........

We all know we prefer to have a puppet or at least someone who is our Allie.

**Imosted** · 02-13-2011, 10:30 AM

It is sad because my country is being ruled by one of those puppets, but it is all a big chess game for world domination. I prefer to be ruled by a puppet supported by USA then be an Allie of fucking Iran

**DOMS** · 02-13-2011, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by min0 lee

Nothing new here........

We all know we prefer to have a puppet or at least someone who is our Allie.

Originally Posted by Imosted

It is sad because my country is being ruled by one of those puppets, but it is all a big chess game for world domination. I prefer to be ruled by a puppet supported by USA then be an Allie of fucking Iran

You are both 100% correct. In the Middle East, you don't have the choice of picking good or evil. You can only pick the lesser of evils. Unfortunately, the sometimes go on to become the greater evil.

**Big Smoothy** · 02-13-2011, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

If the middle east keeps going in the direction it's going, I think history will be much more kind to GWB.

This has NOTHING to do with GWB.

What about the Hamas elections of 2006?

The oil deal between GWB and Qadaffi?

Nothing to do with GWB, nor the USA.

**Big Smoothy** · 02-13-2011, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by Imosted

^^^^this if you research you can find that Mubarak was supported by USA same for Saddam. How do you think Iraq military had the ability to fight against Iran? All the weaponry was given by USA. Sadly same story for the Osama Bin Ladin, he was involved with mujaheddin back in the 80s, when Russia invaded Afghanistan CIA and the USA government supported them by training and giving weapons to fight against Russia, Billions of dollars were given, over the years things didn't work out as USA planned, Saddam and Osama turned against their supporter.

Imosted,

I am aware of this and have read many books on this.

And what you say is very relevant to some on this thread that actually the recent developments have anything to do with the fake policy spewed out by Ari Fleischer in 2003. And this policy, last what? 2-3 years, and it was a lie to begin with. American do not read about foreign policy nor study history. They watch TV, listen to radio and read a daily newspaper. No wonder people are so wrong on this - again.

**irish_2003** · 02-13-2011, 11:20 AM

unfortunately the Obama administration will take credit for the positive things GW did and said......

**lifterjaydawg** · 02-13-2011, 11:24 AM

Not sure if this has anything to do with GWB or Obama.

**Big Smoothy** · 02-13-2011, 11:27 AM

^ and ^^, Egypt has nothing to do with either of them.

It's the policy of the US for many decades.

**lnvanry** · 02-13-2011, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by Big Smoothy

GWB never had a "freedom" and "democracy" agenda in the Middle East.

That was a lie - a lie to seel the Iraq war to ignorant Americans.

The US has publicly supported dictatorship in the Middle East for 90 years.

Most Americans....were too ignorant to know.

Mubarak was the number #2 recipient of economic aid from the US.

The Saud family in KSA, receives MOST aid - they just give it via the private companies like MAIN and Halliburton, Bechtel, and others.

GWB? No.

These policies by the US have been in existence since the 1920s.

If you want to learn more about this, PM me. I'll tell you where to look.

KSA doesn't receive any aid smoothy...they pay for their hardware and services with cash....cash that they earned from the US consumer from oil.

**min0 lee** · 02-13-2011, 04:29 PM

**min0 lee** · 02-13-2011, 04:30 PM

**DOMS** · 02-13-2011, 04:33 PM

**bandaidwoman** · 02-14-2011, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by Imosted

^^^^this if you research you can find that Mubarak was supported by USA same for Saddam. How do you think Iraq military had the ability to fight against Iran? All the weaponry was given by USA. Sadly same story for the Osama Bin Ladin, he was involved with mujaheddin back in the 80s, when Russia invaded Afghanistan CIA and the USA government supported them by training and giving weapons to fight against Russia, Billions of dollars were given, over the years things didn't work out as USA planned, Saddam and Osama turned against their supporter.

Indirectly it was probably strategically advantageous by supplying egypt with american military weaponary and equipment and so they cannot function if the Americans don’t provide spare parts or contractors to maintain that equipment. There is no Soviet Union vying to replace the United States today. re-equipping and training a military the size of Egypt’s is measured in decades. Thus, if they want to go to war against israel using standard military fare, it would need our support.

**Imosted** · 02-14-2011, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by bandaidwoman

Indirectly it was probably strategically advantageous by supplying egypt with american military weaponary and equipment and so they cannot function if the Americans don’t provide spare parts or contractors to maintain that equipment. There is no Soviet Union vying to replace the United States today. re-equipping and training a military the size of Egypt’s is measured in decades. Thus, if they want to go to war against israel using standard military fare, it would need our support.

That is so true about todays weaponry,
There has been alot of arguments about it in my country(turkey)we are an allie of USA and most of our tanks, weapons and war plains are purchased from USA, spare parts are not the biggest problem. the programming of the advenced weaponry is, USA can stop most of the new planes to be used in a war by a press of a button, without the computer, a F16 fighter jet is just a piece of junk...which sucks but it is the truth.

**bandaidwoman** · 02-14-2011, 02:15 PM

by husband lived in Turkey for two years and loved it.

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