Thread: Please Repost this Everywhere til We Are Heard:

maybe the republican Gov shouldn't have given all the money away to special interest groups the first 30 days he was in office...

http://legis.wisconsin.gov/lfb/Misc/...os&Darling.pdf

it's in the "special interest" of EVERY SINGLE TAXPAYER to give tax breaks to try to keep companies not only in Wisconsin, but the USA.....those tax breaks are modestly going to cover what the "Cap and Tax" bill is already causing in penalties to companies.....I'd move facilities to countries with less restrictions too.....The Liberals don't have a fucking clue......they NEVER offer solutions or admit to mistakes...they only blame......

collective bargaining has always been a privilege and not a right.....their mob tactics are actually losing support here in Wisconsin.....in addition in the bill it doesn't state that the unions are gone....it only states that now you won't be "forced" into joining a union at your workplace and that a year from now the union can't go back and try to ask for more again......the democrats in Wisconsin who previously had control couldn't get the unions requests passed during their last 18 months in power.....THEY WON'T WIN NOW EITHER!!!

Stay Strong Gov Walker!!!

gOD DAMN i can't even stand to follow politics anymore, everyone turns so childish about it they can't even debate like civilized adults, next thing we'll have fisticuffs in the capitol buildings like those Asians do....

Originally Posted by irish_2003

it's in the "special interest" of EVERY SINGLE TAXPAYER to give tax breaks to try to keep companies not only in Wisconsin, but the USA.....those tax breaks are modestly going to cover what the "Cap and Tax" bill is already causing in penalties to companies.....

would this be the 250+ companies on the S&P 500 sitting on 2T worth of capital that have reported record gains this year?

the same companies that have laid people off, reduced capital spending by 44%.

the same companies not giving employees cost of inflation wage increases

you mean these companies...that need a tax break

Originally Posted by maniclion

gOD DAMN i can't even stand to follow politics anymore, everyone turns so childish about it they can't even debate like civilized adults, next thing we'll have fisticuffs in the capitol buildings like those Asians do....

maybe thats whay u need

Large corps and their lawyers play by differnet rules. They have political power and the money to buy what they want. But, that must also include the school unions that are helping to bankrupt states all over the US. The pay and benifits that teachers have demanded through the threats of unions to the states, is not something the taxpayers can sustain. If they want to become wealthy, enter the public sector.
And yes the Dems are in violation of the law.

Originally Posted by irish_2003

it's in the "special interest" of EVERY SINGLE TAXPAYER to give tax breaks to try to keep companies not only in Wisconsin, but the USA.....those tax breaks are modestly going to cover what the "Cap and Tax" bill is already causing in penalties to companies.....I'd move facilities to countries with less restrictions too.....The Liberals don't have a fucking clue......they NEVER offer solutions or admit to mistakes...they only blame......

collective bargaining has always been a privilege and not a right.....their mob tactics are actually losing support here in Wisconsin.....in addition in the bill it doesn't state that the unions are gone....it only states that now you won't be "forced" into joining a union at your workplace and that a year from now the union can't go back and try to ask for more again......the democrats in Wisconsin who previously had control couldn't get the unions requests passed during their last 18 months in power.....THEY WON'T WIN NOW EITHER!!!

Stay Strong Gov Walker!!!

I don't agree with your anti-union sentiments. You might consiter review of your history. You would not want to be a skilled laborer before labor unions. Do you like your Weekends? Thank the unions that most of us have the option of taking them off. While not a perfect entity unions prevent the powerful and connected from stealing our labor like they do in Indonesia and so many other places where laborers have not wrestled their rights from those in power. Before condemning those groups that so many suffered to organize and maintain it is wise to review all sides of the argument.

Originally Posted by Glycomann

I don't agree with your anti-union sentiments. You might consiter review of your history. You would not want to be a skilled laborer before labor unions. Do you like your Weekends? Thank the unions that most of us have the option of taking them off. While not a perfect entity unions prevent the powerful and connected from stealing our labor like they do in Indonesia and so many other places where laborers have not wrestled their rights from those in power. Before condemning those groups that so many suffered to organize and maintain it is wise to review all sides of the argument.

Amen, I know what it to not be protected.

Wisconsin Dems who left the state to avoid voting are in violation of Wisconsin Statute 946.12, a felony......they should be made an example of......

Wisconsin Statutes 946.12 - Misconduct in public office :: Lawserver

Originally Posted by Glycomann

I don't agree with your anti-union sentiments. You might consiter review of your history. You would not want to be a skilled laborer before labor unions. Do you like your Weekends? Thank the unions that most of us have the option of taking them off. While not a perfect entity unions prevent the powerful and connected from stealing our labor like they do in Indonesia and so many other places where laborers have not wrestled their rights from those in power. Before condemning those groups that so many suffered to organize and maintain it is wise to review all sides of the argument.

Unions are a solution to a problem that no longer exists in the USA.

These teachers make 89k a year with all their benefits. I don't even think they have to contribute anything to their pensions or health.

Fuck them, they should all be fired. 100 teachers were just layed of where I grew up and they don't make have that.

greed, greed, greed.

WI House Dems Warn Gov. Walker Not To Cross NFL Packers

Don't mess with the Packers.

Originally Posted by DOMS

Unions are a solution to a problem that no longer exists in the USA.

You think we would be better off without unions ?

I don't know either way.

Originally Posted by DOMS

Unions are a solution to a problem that no longer exists in the USA.

It will return. But you do have point...the private sector shipped the problems overseas.

I worked both in the private sector (over 25 years) and with the Union.

I work just as hard as I did with the private sector as I do now with the Union but I make less money. But the benefits balance things out.
Now the Union does sometimes protect bums but the private sector isn't all that great.
How many times have I seen a person get better pay or treatment all because either he was related or kissing the bosses ass.
Dammit, they took away our sick time without telling us, they have fired employees once they had to use thier medical....I can go on with the abuse...

Now I can grieve an issue knowing I have some protection, we went to the office asking them for sick time and they told us to leave or your fired....unreal.

Oh wait, there was that time they told me they were going to replace me with 3 Mexicans...nice going private sector.
All of these issues we have with buildings going down and illegals dying is all because of the private sector violating rules.

Originally Posted by irish_2003

Stay Strong Gov Walker!!!

Walker Concocts 'Scoop and Toss' Borrowing Scheme to Pay for $140 Million in Special Interest Spending
Wall Street Bond Holders Win; Wisconsin's Long-Term Debt Rises

Madison-- Republican Gov. Scott Walker plans to pay for $140 million in new special interest spending signed into law in January by extending the state's long term debt in a "scoop and toss" refinancing scheme that will cost untold tens of millions of dollars in additional debt for Wisconsin.

"Scott Walker railed non-stop against budget gimmicks as a candidate and now as governor he's put together a scheme that would make a pay-day lender blush," said Scot Ross, One Wisconsin Now Executive Director. "Gov. Walker created this problem by handing out $140 million in special interest spending to his corporate pals and he's going to make our children pay for it by taking loans the state was ready to pay off and borrow more money on them."

Walker is refusing to provide full accounting of how much in additional costs his "scoop and toss" scheme would cost taxpayers down the road. Since his inauguration in early January, Walker has approved $140 million in new special interest spending that includes:

$25 million for an economic development fund for job creation that still has $73 million due to a lack of job creation. Walker is creating a $25 million hole which will not create or retain jobs. [Wisconsin Legislative Fiscal Bureau, 1/7/11]
$48 million for private health savings accounts, which primarily benefit the wealthy. A study from the federal Governmental Accountability Office showed the average adjusted gross income of HSA participants was $139,000 and nearly half of HSA participants reported withdrawing nothing from their HSA, evidence that it is serving as a tax shelter for wealthy participants. [Government Accountability Office, 4/1/08; Wisconsin Legislative Fiscal Bureau, 1/11/11]
$67 million for a tax shift plan, so ill-conceived that at-best the benefit provided to job creators would be less than a dollar a day per new job, and may be as little as 30 cents a day. [Associated Press, 1/28/01]
Walker made numerous statements before and after his election as governor criticizing borrowing schemes as a means of balancing the state's budget, a sample of which includes:

Soon, we will lay out our plans for the next state budget and we will successfully tackle the three billion dollar deficit. We will do it without raids on segregated funds, or excessive borrowing. [Walker Inaugural Address, 1/3/11]

I throw out a couple examples of things we pointed out there to get this next budget intact to make sure we don't do what the governor has done the last couple of times, which is kick the can down into the future and create even bigger budget deficits we got to get our legacy costs under control. [Walker-Neumann Debate, 8/25/10]

Our budget repair bill will lay the foundation for a structurally sound budget that doesn't rely on short-term fixes and other gap measures that only delay the pain and create perilous uncertainty. [Walker State of the State Address, 2/3/11]

In addition to not disclosing how much more this will cost the taxpayers in the long-run, Walker has not released how much the Wall Street firms and bond lawyers will profit off this deal.

"Gov. Walker's unprecedented power grab is turning his office into the state's largest lobbyist waiting room," said Ross. "Wisconsin deserves to know immediately the long-term cost of this borrowing scheme and what Wall Street firms and bond lawyers stand to make from our tax dollars."

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One Wisconsin Now is a statewide communic

I trust no politician.

Dems Closed Much Larger Budget Shortfall In Wisconsin Without Destroying Worker Rights


We know that Wisconsin's Republican Gov. Scott Walker is framing his bid to roll back public sector worker rights as a necessary measure of fiscal austerity. And we know that's basically bogus. But how bogus? And how accurate are the dire warnings of fiscal crisis? And how standard are the tools Walker's using to address it?

The answers in order: very, overblown, and unconventional.

"Unconventional or nuclear, depending on your point of view," said Pat Kreitlow, a former Democratic senator in Wisconsin, who helped pass the state's current budget.

There's been a lot of confusion about what Walker's doing -- but he's definitely not passing a budget. He's pushing optional legislation in a vehicle that's meant to tweak the budget in the event of a budget emergency. To the extent that there is an emergency, Walker essentially created it, giving him the chance to pass a bill that would permanently deny public workers collective bargaining rights, while he's still riding the wave of his own post-election popularity.

Here's how it came down.

In Wisconsin, budget season is two years long. The current budget window was opened on July 1, 2009, and will close on June 30 of this year. If for unexpected reason, the state finds itself faced with a severe deficit within a biennial window, the legislature must pass what's known a "budget repair bill" -- to close the gap with spending cuts or other emergency measures.

The state has not crossed that threshold.

The previous governor, Democrat Jim Doyle, passed a budget that left the state poised for a surplus this year. When Walker took office in January he chipped away at that surplus with three conservative tax expenditure bills, but not severely enough to trigger a budget repair bill. The current, small shortfall was "manufactured by Governor Walker's own insistence on making the deficit worse with the bills he passed in January," Kreitlow said. But Walker cited that shortfall to introduce a "budget repair bill" anyhow -- a fully elective move that includes his plan to end collective bargaining rights for state employees.

"The trigger had not been reached prior to Governor Walker adding to the previous year's deficit by passing bills that didn't create a single job," Kreitlow said.

Walker will soon have to introduce an actual budget, which will outline spending and revenue policy for the two years between July 1, 2011 and June 30, 2013. And the state's Legislative Fiscal Bureau -- the official scorekeeper -- does project that he'll face a $3 billion shortfall. But Democrats faced a shortfall twice as large ahead of the previous budget cycle and managed to close the gap.

"The $3 billion is a projection based on requests and forecasts, but it's the governor who has to do the hard work of putting together a plan," Kreitow explained. "it is just practically half of the projected deficit that we closed in the last budget bill, which we did by making serious cuts and some very deliberate choices. That's what we expect leaders to do." In 2009, Wisconsin Dems did get just over a billion in help from the stimulus bill, but they made up the rest by giving state agencies less money than they asked for, and through furloughs and other real austerity measures.

"We know it could be closed again by making tough choices," Kreitow said. "But not included in those tough choices would be stripping away labor rights that have allowed there to be labor peace in Wisconsin for over 50 years."

Originally Posted by ROID

You think we would be better off without unions ?

I don't know either way.

Hell yes. Unions were created to deal with things like unfair wages, unfair working hours, scabs, and being killed. Now they're just a drain on society. Witness the teachers' union.

Originally Posted by min0 lee

It will return. But you do have point...the private sector shipped the problems overseas.

That's not it at all.

Like I said to ROID, they're a drain, not a boon.

I'm sure that if you're in a union, they're the best thing since sliced bread. If you're the rest of society, they're a drain of billions on the economy.

Still think we need unions? Look at Walmart. They don't have a union and they're goaded some of their employees to work unreported, and unpaid, hours. Did the big, bad, evil company get away with it? No, the workers reported them to the feds, who leaned on Walmart. Then end result was that Walmart stopped the practice and compensated the employees. This is exactly what the laws were intended to do, which is why we don't need unions.

We don't need the stupid shit that is a by product of unions (the pedophile teachers of NY) and the increase of product prices and services to cover the expenses of the unions.

Your taking about a major outlet that doesn't need bad publicity.
There are hundreds of small companies that get away with it all the time.

Unions are not perfect, but the private sector is far from it.

I was with the rest of society...in fact I took a paycut going to the union.
One of the things that really irked me was they cut the company in half we had to fill the other positions that were cut but at the same wages. More hours in fact.

I may think differently if I owned a business but I don't.

LOL...I have to add that I felt so much like an immigrant peon working for Motorola....now I am American. Go Union!

Originally Posted by min0 lee

Your taking about a major outlet that doesn't need bad publicity.
There are hundreds of small companies that get away with it all the time.

Unions are not perfect, but the private sector is far from it.

I was with the rest of society...in fact I took a paycut going to the union.
One of the things that really irked me was they cut the company in half we had to fill the other positions that were cut but at the same wages. More hours in fact.

I may think differently if I owned a business but I don't.

The law will go after a small company just as fast as a large company.

Originally Posted by DOMS

The law will go after a small company just as fast as a large company.

I've seen to many people go to the labor department and wind up no where...I might add I was supervision at one time but I gave it up.
I can fill this place up with illegal crap they did....firing people because they worried about health insurance costs...letting go of another employee when his wife asked to many questions about health insurance (they were real shady here) violating all of the OSHA rules, and then the stealing from agencies..(oops, sorry about the double billing it was an honest mistake we make with other agencies) .

I know things aren't perfect but there is more to it than that with these politicians..nothing but crooks.

Originally Posted by ROID

These teachers make 89k a year with all their benefits. I don't even think they have to contribute anything to their pensions or health.

if you knew anything about the industry you would know what just about any teacher in any state in the US that wants to make any money has to have their Masters plus.

which means more education and college loans to pay off...

Bagpipes for the win!!

The unions already agreed to double their contributions to their pensions and healthcare. Walker insists that he can't pass his budget without killing the union.

The middle class didn't cause this recession. The rich did. That is why they are rich, because they know how to work the system. Since the rich are responsible for maintaining the economy, and benefit the most from it, let them pay to fix it.

In fact, the governor from Minnesota who is a Yale graduate who has a similar problem is doing with making the middle class poor and killing off the poor....well that may not be a bad thing about the poor...oh wait I was poor once and I might yet be again.

Gov. Dayton Wants To Tax Wealthy To Fix MN’s Deficit « CBS Minnesota