Thread: Wis. GOP strips public workers' bargaining rights

Love it

you already know how i feel on this......i'm investing in Kleenex (Kimberly-Clark)....there's alot of whining and crying now and i want to capitalize on this......it's on the rise over the last couple weeks

Honestly, even though I don't agree with the way it was done, I don't see what was wrong with his demands. He wanted to remove collective bargaining for benefits which is needed, they should be paying like everyone else, and require all raises above the annual col increase to be voted on by the public. I see nothing wrong with any of that, let the voters decide if they are getting their money's worth, their money is footing the bill.

keeping wages low is a brilliant way to increase tax receipts to the IRS

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

Honestly, even though I don't agree with the way it was done, I don't see what was wrong with his demands. He wanted to remove collective bargaining for benefits which is needed, they should be paying like everyone else, and require all raises above the annual col increase to be voted on by the public. I see nothing wrong with any of that, let the voters decide if they are getting their money's worth, their money is footing the bill.

when the dems did it it was way cool now not so much eh.

Originally Posted by irish_2003

you already know how i feel on this......i'm investing in Kleenex (Kimberly-Clark)....there's alot of whining and crying now and i want to capitalize on this......it's on the rise over the last couple weeks

You should invest in whaaaaambulance services, too.

Wisconsin should be applauded for finally cutting up the Dems credit card. I feel so much happier knowing this was finally done. Frankly, the dems fucked themselves, there I said it. You got paid to do a job and when it got tough you ran away, fucking cowards. Those that left should all be removed from office for dereliction of duty. Its a damn democracy, this walking out of it to prove a point shows nothing more than an unwillingness to debate in open session because they have no good argument to present. This is what we call a reckoning and I am proud to be here to see it.

Originally Posted by oufinny

Wisconsin should be applauded for finally cutting up the Dems credit card. I feel so much happier knowing this was finally done. Frankly, the dems fucked themselves, there I said it. You got paid to do a job and when it got tough you ran away, fucking cowards. Those that left should all be removed from office for dereliction of duty. Its a damn democracy, this walking out of it to prove a point shows nothing more than an unwillingness to debate in open session because they have no good argument to present. This is what we call a reckoning and I am proud to be here to see it.

believe me.....our "silent majority" spoke loudly in the November elections......they lost, we won.....and we're still winning.....another vote is tomorrow at 11am....we will win again

Originally Posted by irish_2003

believe me.....our "silent majority" spoke loudly in the November elections......they lost, we won.....and we're still winning.....another vote is tomorrow at 11am....we will win again

just like charlie sheen

Originally Posted by LAM

keeping wages low is a brilliant way to increase tax receipts to the IRS

It doesn't take an IQ above 75 to figure out that this was on public paid government union employees that are PAID by our tax dollars - not to mention, they had more pay and benefits leaps and bounds over the same private sector jobs spectrum. I was in the union for a long time and if theres one thing I know, it's that the only thing the union is exceedingly good at it's lobbying for their own pockets. Under the guise of 'the working man', most are protected when they work a helluva lot less for allot more bennys than the average joe. They are simply another political arm of the democratic party where they scratch each others back off the tax payers wallets.

Now if we could get all the deadbeats off welfare, drill our own oil and make some nuke plants, resolve the border abomination, etc. we would be in a damned good recovery, but the dems want their welfare vote/save a woodcrested thumpernutter and the republicans don't have the nuts to make it happen.

for those who think the vote was illegal......the 24 hour notice wasn't required in this case.....they did give more than the minimum 2 hour notice thru email as well as posting on the senate floor

19.84 Public notice.
(3) Public notice of ev...ery meeting of a governmental body shall be given at least 24 hours prior to the commencement of such meeting unless for good cause such notice is impossible or impractical, in which case shorter notice may be given, but in no case may the notice be provided less than 2 hours in advance of the meeting.

the emails and posting on the senate bulletin board were posted around 4pm.....more than the minimum 2 hours required

Originally Posted by LAM

keeping wages low is a brilliant way to increase tax receipts to the IRS

Yes it is when you and I are paying the wages. When it comes to public employees' wages, there are no rich fat cats lighting cigars with $100 bills getting rich off of the backs of the workers. We have state govts on the verge of bankruptcy. Union workers have to tighten their belts just like the rest of us if their state is to remain solvent. Being a union worker does not entitle anyone to unsustainable benefits that the rest of us don't have access to. Even the the most socialist president in our history, FDR, was against unionization in the public sector. They are putting a stranglehold on the taxpayers, not rich fat cats.

20 states are now in the process of removing collective bargaining......kudos to my governor and the silent majority!!!

Originally Posted by irish_2003

20 states are now in the process of removing collective bargaining......kudos to my governor and the silent majority!!!

Originally Posted by GearsMcGilf

Yes it is when you and I are paying the wages. When it comes to public employees' wages, there are no rich fat cats lighting cigars with $100 bills getting rich off of the backs of the workers. We have state govts on the verge of bankruptcy. Union workers have to tighten their belts just like the rest of us if their state is to remain solvent. Being a union worker does not entitle anyone to unsustainable benefits that the rest of us don't have access to. Even the the most socialist president in our history, FDR, was against unionization in the public sector. They are putting a stranglehold on the taxpayers, not rich fat cats.

so instead of fixing they take away, that's a great solution to a problem...don't remember anything being taken away from Wall Street

Originally Posted by irish_2003

20 states are now in the process of removing collective bargaining......kudos to my governor and the silent majority!!!

and let the recalls begin...anyone remember any GOP governors running on this platform?

Originally Posted by LAM

and let the recalls begin...anyone remember any GOP governors running on this platform?

this is what the GOP did to the dems just now

Originally Posted by Dark Geared God

this is what the GOP did to the dems just now

actually it's what they did to the american people not the Dems..since the decline of unions in the 80's under Reagan wages in non-farm payroll have remained mostly stagnant except in the financial sector where it has increased several hundred percent. makes perfect sense to punish union workers for having contracts

Originally Posted by LAM

actually it's what they did to the american people not the Dems..since the decline of unions in the 80's under Reagan wages in non-farm payroll have remained mostly stagnant except in the financial sector where it has increased several hundred percent. makes perfect sense to punish union workers for having contracts

You know both are linked - like when you hear about a dem not allowing non-union bidding on projects for their states. There is a reason the unions put so much money into democrat campaigns and have so much washington lobbying. Both have always played hide the weinie since the beginning.

You show me the facts of your claim of 'remained mostly stagnant'. My wages and bennies were top notch and rose steadily. There is a reason why the Wisconsin union government workers were so far above the rest in wages than the private sector. If what you claim is true, then would a teachers salary be wht.. oh 150k average by now if it were not for Reagan instead of the nearly 100k it is now? Back up your claims, otherwise your farting in the wind.

Originally Posted by Dark Geared God

when the dems did it it was way cool now not so much eh.

No, underhanded tactics such as this are wrong regardless of political ideology, but legal is legal. Besides, this has zero effect on me, I'm not interested on sucking on the tax dollar teet.

Originally Posted by phosphor

You show me the facts of your claim of 'remained mostly stagnant'. My wages and bennies were top notch and rose steadily. There is a reason why the Wisconsin union government workers were so far above the rest in wages than the private sector. If what you claim is true, then would a teachers salary be wht.. oh 150k average by now if it were not for Reagan instead of the nearly 100k it is now? Back up your claims, otherwise your farting in the wind.

You're joking, right? It is fairly common knowledge that wages have been stagnant since the 80s. In fact all you would have to do is google average annual wage and you would probably find 50 graphs that all look the same, a flat line. The irony is in the fact that since 1980 the top marginal tax rate has dropped from 70% to 33% and the gap between the people paying that rate and the middle class is exponentially growing. So you tell me, are they spending that money they are saving on the tax cut or are they saving/investing it. It's their money, they have the right to do whatever they want with it, but if the government sees this as bad for the economy, which it is, they need to intervene. I think simplifying the tax code would do this, and it would give a %age cut to the wealthy, even though it would effectively raise their taxes.

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

You're joking, right? It is fairly common knowledge that wages have been stagnant since the 80s. In fact all you would have to do is google average annual wage and you would probably find 50 graphs that all look the same, a flat line. The irony is in the fact that since 1980 the top marginal tax rate has dropped from 70% to 33% and the gap between the people paying that rate and the middle class is exponentially growing. So you tell me, are they spending that money they are saving on the tax cut or are they saving/investing it. It's their money, they have the right to do whatever they want with it, but if the government sees this as bad for the economy, which it is, they need to intervene. I think simplifying the tax code would do this, and it would give a %age cut to the wealthy, even though it would effectively raise their taxes.

So what your telling me, if I understand correctly, is that your in favor of higher tax rates for the rich? Meanwhile, 40% of our population (at least) make what they deem poverty levels and suck off the government's tits, pay no federal and get thousands extra when they do their taxes. This is nothing more than classic redistribution. The givers and the takers. If, let's say one would argue that trickle-down does not work, does shaking down the rich to fill a neverending stream of takers (that more often than not, never leave the system) work? That is a definite no. If you simplify the tax code - where EVERYONE pays their fair share, it would put a fire in many low income earners to do more, not less. Right now, they feel entitled to all of their programs, not caring that it's another persons money.

Let's say you are right about the stagnant union wages. It wasn't for me, but for all the other unionized people. Look at the large gap in wages between private and union employees. It is a stark contrast and large gap when all the perks are put in the figures and for the tax payers to bear the burden over and over is nonsense. For them to be in a nice, lush position and being protected as they are, many do not have the drive or ambition to go above and beyond in their workplace and many blatently do as little as possible.

My sister in massachussets told me a few days ago about what she goes through wit the unionized teachers out there on a regular basis. The teachers union were in contract negotiations for 2 years with the schools in regards of higher pay and benefits. They already get 100k+ a year average - at least in her area. For those 2 years, they refused to sign letter of recommendations for the seniors and refused email communication with the parents. When confronted by this, they would always parrot what they were told to say - we are busy. When the negotiations were finalized, magically they started signing the letters and communicating again. Even now though, they are outright rude to the parents on any issues. If they don't like hearing what the parents have to say, they take it out on their children at school. They still maintain a lethargic attitude and do the minimum to get by. Complaints fall on deaf ears, since they are protected after all. This is not all teachers I assume in this area, but most have accepted this as the normal climate in their school system there. Thats what you get when the factors of a union envoronment involved - it insulates the teacher and creates an egotistical, overpayed nightmare.

Police, firefighters, military and politicians need to be the next to have pay cuts. The military should have to start paying for their own healthcare too no free ride on the tax payers backs.

Originally Posted by LAM

so instead of fixing they take away, that's a great solution to a problem...don't remember anything being taken away from Wall Street

Wall Street wasn't entitled to anything either. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Originally Posted by irish_2003

20 states are now in the process of removing collective bargaining......kudos to my governor and the silent majority!!!

I think the state BUDGET SHORTFALLS are one of the main reasons.

The money is NOT there.

And these shortfalls may be a long term phenomenon.

Let's face it guys, there are many different facets as to why this country is in the shape it is - some areas are a much bigger blame than others. There are many things we can point to instead of this particular issue. The way I see it imho, is that this is just a piece of the puzzle. It's a start, but without many further drastic changes, this will just be seen as a plan with no backbone.

Many businesses that run off or in part from government funding follow the usual loophole tactics year after year, creating prolly billions in waste alone. Many have a budget in spending and they go right up the max level of their allowance each year for fear of the government reducing their levels for the next year. This problem area alone prolly drawfs the union issue by far, but it's just a guess.

I know for some the union issue is a touchy subject. I like aspects of the union and loathe other aspects. I realize that it takes away from the middle class by doing this - but I also have to also accept that this is artificially driven off the taxpayers backs. I also believe that fireman, police, and especially military personal should be exempt from the subject, since they put their lives on the line a helluva lot more than the average union joe - or me.

My governor in my state, Mitch Daniels, signed an executive order to abolish bargaining, etc. about 6 yrs ago the day after he took office - same thing Wisconsin just went through with the circus event. Not a whole lot of news covered that one. We are also well into the black on the books unlike many other states. While I would like to say him doing this made it happen, it would be a lie. It was only a small part of the whole plan implemented that Indiana is in the good shape that it's in.

Originally Posted by LAM

so instead of fixing they take away, that's a great solution to a problem...don't remember anything being taken away from Wall Street

Taking away IS the fix.

This whole issue is tearing me apart. On the one hand I think teachers, police, firefighters, etc are DRASTICALLY underpaid. When entertainers (including athletes) are making close to minimum wage while public servants are raking in millions of dollars I'll think the ship has been righted.

BUT, I'm firmly against public servants being unionized. If the people doing the work would stop paying union dues and instead put that money toward health insurance and retirement plans then I'd support thier cause.

If you don't like athletes and entertainers making millions then stop watching sports and stop listening to music.



How they're putting a strain on the US economy is beyond me. It's more like the other way around.