Thread: Strong corporate profits amid weak economy - What's up with that?

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

There is no way we are getting out of this by cutting revenue. We overspend by a trillion dollars a year. If we continue to cut $100 billion extra each year without changing revenue we will amass $4.5 trillion more in debt over the next 10 years. Revenue has to be increased and unless jobs are created, the only way to do that is increase taxes, anyone who has taken 8th grade math should be able to make that conclusion very easily. A simple solution would be to jack up corporate taxes by closing loopholes and only replace them with hiring incentives that lead to jobs, but that would be too easy.

Revenue is not the problem in this country, it is spending. Until the US moves away from subsidizing everything and everyone, we will never get out from under the debt. Healthcare that is nationalized is not the answer, having some of the highest corporate taxes is not the answer, nor are loopholes in the tax system. Massive, striking changes are what are needed. The tax code needs to be completely redone, simple as that.

^^^^ i vote for a simple flat tax (at least for individuals). any takers? Even your local crack dealer would pay because he wants to buy his flat screens and pimped rims. That would also prolly mean internet tax would be instituted as well.

Originally Posted by oufinny

Revenue is not the problem in this country, it is spending. Until the US moves away from subsidizing everything and everyone, we will never get out from under the debt. Healthcare that is nationalized is not the answer, having some of the highest corporate taxes is not the answer, nor are loopholes in the tax system. Massive, striking changes are what are needed. The tax code needs to be completely redone, simple as that.

How do you not understand, I am not saying that having a high corporate tax rate is a good thing, I am saying that they don't pay that rate anyway, their rate is much much lower. Hell, G.E.'s tax rate was effectively -65% and most top companies pay under 15% now. Now you have Big Pimpin paying a fortune %-wise in taxes while creating jobs yet GE cut 1/5 of it's American workforce. A flat 15% with no loopholes would be great but they will never do it, these companies are paying less now, you would effectively be raising taxes on them anyway. How is raising taxes by cutting out loopholes any different than just raising the rate? In both scenarios you are effectively raising revenue in the exact same manner, by making them pay more money to the gov't.

Oh, and our problem was caused both by dropping revenue AND overspending. If the tax rates would have stayed at 2000 levels and the Bush tax cuts never enacted we would have $2.74 trillion less in debt. Had that created any jobs it may have been worth it, but we actually lost 1.5 million jobs from 2001 to today.

Originally Posted by phosphor

The tired old mantra labeling profit as evil is as un-american as anything else I can think of. Many companies have diversified their portfolios into other areas of the world less hard hit, knowing that the dollar continues to get raped and no end in sight on federal spending. This county has a credit rating just above a homeless crackhead.

Sure, capitalism has it's flaws - like the ceo reaping millions while laying off 10000 workers. When they do shady shit like that, you hurt them where it counts - you don't buy their products. Naysayers of big biz like to get on their soapbox and preach about obscene profits and ceo kickbacks, but there are many companies that don't do that and they all get lumped into the same pile if they are making a profit. So, what are they supposed to do - the ones legit anyways, still making profits (or even the ones giving millions to CEO's - if they didn't take bailout money, it's nunya). Give it back? Let their ass hang in the wind, hoping the economy gets better? Or do they save/invest it into areas more stable in case of financial meltdown. This whole article is just a thinly veiled attempt to stir the pot between the have's and the have-nots.

socializing the losses of for profit company's isn't capitalism.

allowing Wall Street banks to commit fraud isn't capitalism.

passing legislation to force the people's of a state to use tax payer monies to bail out Wall Street banks isn't capitalism; it is the makings of a banana republic which is the current direction of the US.

US taxpayers have bailed out Wall Street 2x now in the past 100+ years. And every time the recessions get worst and worst and every time there is a shift of wealth from the poor to the rich. the next recession will cripple the "middle class"

Dale, it can be argued that many jobs lost are a direct reflection of NAFTA and what it continues to do to many job sectors. You can throw 2.74 trillion at the government, but that won't create anything but government jobs which is the same as not having the money to begin with. I agree with the overspending - they should lead by example instead of spending like drunken sailors, but to not enact the Bush tax cuts just to coverthe overspending just further enables the monster. Too bad nobody in Washington has the balls to make the hard cuts that need to take place instead. In the end, they're all republicrats.

Originally Posted by oufinny

Revenue is not the problem in this country, it is spending. Until the US moves away from subsidizing everything and everyone, we will never get out from under the debt. Healthcare that is nationalized is not the answer, having some of the highest corporate taxes is not the answer, nor are loopholes in the tax system. Massive, striking changes are what are needed. The tax code needs to be completely redone, simple as that.

revenue is a problem..remember the US has had a debt problem since WWII

as long as the US continues to us it's military for the spread of "democracy" which we all know is nothing but a guise for globalization the country will remain in debt. warring bankrupts nations

Welcome to UCA

Originally Posted by phosphor

Dale, it can be argued that many jobs lost are a direct reflection of NAFTA and what it continues to do to many job sectors. You can throw 2.74 trillion at the government, but that won't create anything but government jobs which is the same as not having the money to begin with. I agree with the overspending - they should lead by example instead of spending like drunken sailors, but to not enact the Bush tax cuts just to coverthe overspending just further enables the monster. Too bad nobody in Washington has the balls to make the hard cuts that need to take place instead. In the end, they're all republicrats.

I agree on NAFTA, but that started in 1994, you would figure putting money in these job creators pockets would have at least made that break even. I don't think most of our jobs are going to Canada or Mexico, though. Basically what you have now is corporations raking in billions of dollars in profit, paying no US tax, cutting the US workforce, and hiring overseas. Why should we be giving them tax breaks for that? People like Big Pimpin have their priorities screwed up, IMO. Business is bad here because no one is working and everyone is broke. International business has very little bottom line on the small business owner and as the middle class shrinks, so does the opportunity for a non-service based small business in the U.S. to grow.

As for that $2.74 trillion, I want the gov't spending that money on investing in private business to get us off foreign oil with the next source of energy. I am sick of being at the whim of the middle east. I would also like a lot more invested in education and health. Obviously we need to fix our situation with education and the way our system is run, and when I refer to health I am not talking Obamacare. I think premiums need to be in line with lifestyle. If you smoke, drink alcohol, eat poorly, etc., you should pay a lot more in healthcare costs than a health person. WRT energy, China has invested hundreds of billions on renewable energy and even more on finding our next fuel source. You want to see your dollar lose value real quick, watch what happens when the next energy source is priced in Yen instead of dollars. I had a discussion with a conservative client yesterday, he doesn't want the gov't involved at all, he wants the energy market to sort itself out. The problem is, a corporation's sole interest is profit not what's best for the country, as long as their is more profit in oil they won't change. They may invest a little bit here and there in new and renewable energy sources to get tax breaks, but implementation is up to them, they never release the data from their R&D even though we are all funding it.

I think this international company bullshit where companies buy a mailbox in another country needs to go to be honest with you. Stiff tariffs on imports, huge tax incentives for exporting. If it's too expensive to do business here in the U.S., go sell Ipads to Africans, their corporate tax rate is probably pretty low. At the end of the day, I do agree that the American people are significantly to blame, but they are too stupid to change their behavior. I don't think the market is going to sort itself this time, their needs to be intervention, and not a $700billion dollar bailout. Reform the tax code and rape companies who send jobs overseas.

Originally Posted by LAM

revenue is a problem..remember the US has had a debt problem since WWII

as long as the US continues to us it's military for the spread of "democracy" which we all know is nothing but a guise for globalization the country will remain in debt. warring bankrupts nations

The US was not a debtor or welfare state prior to WW2 that is why; and the insane cost of the war. Remember, taxes up until Raegan were astonomical, I think the top rate was 60-70% (I was 2, sorry if I don't remember it perfectly). The cold war drained our wealth and because we outspent the USSR, we effectively won and now Russia is just a pariah nation with a vote on the security council and an ex-president that still runs the country. That said, there are a myriad of problems in the US. I could write a freaking novel but it will fall on deaf ears and there will be many of you that will try to discredit any facts presented, that is the reality of our country and the two party system. The only thing that is agreed upon is something needs to be done, many don't believe our President has our best interests at heart, I am one of them, but what do you expect from someone bought and paid for by the unions. Republicans are paid for by corporations, all liberals say this at one time or the other, and Democrats are thought to be ran and controlled by unions. There is truth to it all. Two ways to get rid of this: term limits to eliminate the incentive to avoid hard decisions in favor of a life of service (Ted Kennedy, Strom Thurman, the list is long and sad) and elimination of all campaign financing from any corporation or NGO. Term limits will most likely never happen, who would vote themselves out? It would have to come from the President and he would need major support, O'Bama aint that guy! And most of the congress get all of their money from campaign financing so why would they stop that either? It is a massive catch 22, we know what needs to be done but no one will do it as it takes all the incentives away.

Some time long ago the idea of public service was lost and the country moved away from the ideas the founders originally in envisioned. Franklin, Jefferson, Adams never could foresee the world we live in but they sure as SHIT would not have let it get this bad. We have a true Oligarchy in America, there are those that are in office and in power (CEOs, Military etc...) and the rest of us who get a vote that amounts to dick shit. We all are pissed, we all aren't getting representation and when tough decisions are being made (Wisconsin), congressman are running for cover instead of fighting the good fight as the people voted them in to do (we call them cowards , if they were Republicans, I would say the same shit so bight your tongues liberals). I have legally been voting for 11 years, have little faith much of it made a difference but I will continue to voice my opinion at the polls and to anyone who asks it because I did vote. If you don't vote, STFU, you don't get the right to speak in my eyes. For those on here that are in this thread, I truly hope you voted otherwise you should sit on the sideline as you haven't earned the right in my eyes.

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

At the end of the day, I do agree that the American people are significantly to blame, but they are too stupid to change their behavior. I don't think the market is going to sort itself this time, their needs to be intervention, and not a $700billion dollar bailout. Reform the tax code and rape companies who send jobs overseas.

Don't short change the public like that, it is that attitude to motivates complacency not action. The majority of the public is a lot smarter than you think and a lot of the VOTING public are relatively well educated and can think for themselves. You don't need to have a law degree to change your behavior, you need elected officials to sell the idea. JFK did a damn good job of rallying a country behind ideas, if he could do that during arguably one of the most turmoil filled 10 years in our history, it can be done again. Regardless of the party affiliation, a true leader can inspire and educate at the same time. Clinton had a knack for capturing and bringing an audience into his speeches, I don't agree with all he said but he was the closest we came to that level of JFK inspiration outside of Reagan in the later years of his Presidency (think his speech to Gorbechov (sp?)).

Originally Posted by oufinny

Some time long ago the idea of public service was lost and the country moved away from the ideas the founders originally in envisioned. Franklin, Jefferson, Adams never could foresee the world we live in but they sure as SHIT would not have let it get this bad. We have a true Oligarchy in America, there are those that are in office and in power (CEOs, Military etc...) and the rest of us who get a vote that amounts to dick shit.

the US is nearing on being the world's first true Banana Republic if we keep going in the same direction...

Originally Posted by oufinny

Don't short change the public like that, it is that attitude to motivates complacency not action. The majority of the public is a lot smarter than you think and a lot of the VOTING public are relatively well educated and can think for themselves. You don't need to have a law degree to change your behavior, you need elected officials to sell the idea. JFK did a damn good job of rallying a country behind ideas, if he could do that during arguably one of the most turmoil filled 10 years in our history, it can be done again. Regardless of the party affiliation, a true leader can inspire and educate at the same time. Clinton had a knack for capturing and bringing an audience into his speeches, I don't agree with all he said but he was the closest we came to that level of JFK inspiration outside of Reagan in the later years of his Presidency (think his speech to Gorbechov (sp?)).

When a large lump of the population votes against their financial interests and the blue states subsidize the red states while those red states say kill these programs, and while the government tries to cut 20% of the budget but they are not willing to touch 85% of it, I think my statement is pretty accurate.

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

When a large lump of the population votes against their financial interests and the blue states subsidize the red states while those red states say kill these programs, and while the government tries to cut 20% of the budget but they are not willing to touch 85% of it, I think my statement is pretty accurate.

You want to touch the 85%, do what your illustrious savior and President said he would do, get out of two wars that we no longer need to fight. Once you do that, the need for a massive military and defense budget will diminish greatly.

Originally Posted by oufinny

You want to touch the 85%, do what your illustrious savior and President said he would do, get out of two wars that we no longer need to fight. Once you do that, the need for a massive military and defense budget will diminish greatly.

He's definitely not my savior, but if you think our meddling in the middle east ends with any of these 3 wars you are sorely mistaken.

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

He's definitely not my savior, but if you think our meddling in the middle east ends with any of these 3 wars you are sorely mistaken.

the US has 4% of the world populations yet we consume 25% of the crude oil, we will never be "out" of the middle east until we got off the oil (and plastics).

Oh but he has a new plan to solve the energy crisis today... he is a genius didn't you know? He wants to invest in increasing bio fuels, solar, increase crude in the US and natural gas. Wait what was that Mr. Liar? You want the oil industry, that one I have worked in all my working life, to turn on the spigot and give you more oil all while you close off our biggest resource. The guy is so back and forth while finding more and more ways to throw money at problems with no concept how any of this works. The more I learn and read about O'Bama, the more clear it is he was far from ready for an office of this caliber. He should have stayed a Senator, the world would be a better place.

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

Reform the tax code and rape companies who send jobs overseas.

This!