Thread: The American Dream

Originally Posted by BillHicksFan

I labelled you a patriot and I'd go as far as to say that you resent Carlin because of his outspoken views on America, not his bitterness (which is actually passion in disguise). Where you see bitterness, I see brutal honesty on a range of topics that many people can relate to 100%.

So you're going to label me based on what you think I think and not what I said? That's a great game. My turn.

I label you a cross dresser and a pedophile. You get up most mornings, put on a dress. Then you grab a handful of candy and get into your panel van. Then you drive down to the preschool and try to diddle the boys. You're a fucking sick person.

That's an easy game. Let's continue playing the game of "I label based not on what he said."

But it's no wonder you get your jollies off Carlin. He bashes the US and you're not even American. Americans spell it "humor", not "humour." "Swallow your pride"? So you find having to listen to comedians that aren't from your country (Australian?) to be distasteful? Keep throwing that flag waving stuff around. It's so not hypocritical.

Originally Posted by BillHicksFan

You say that you agree with him on some topics however you state that "the world is better off now that he's dead." Really?

It's not so much the underlying message. It's the way he delivers it. Full of despair and hopelessness. He talks about the corporations owning the US and politicians being corrupt. But certainly I mustn't agree with that because I don't like him. Oh wait, that's what I said here.

Originally Posted by BillHicksFan

What entertainers do you have now who can relate to the the mainstream US and get them to think about the world in which they live?

I don't rely on entertainers to learn about my country and its politicians. Instead, I look at a broad spectrum of sources, educate myself, and craft an informed opinion.

But hey, if you, and people like you, need a puppet show in order to learn, knock yourself out.

Originally Posted by phosphor

For Carlin, it was his shtick and he was very good at it. You know up front what your getting with him. Whether he be viewed as bitter or speaking his mind, it was his thang.

Complaining, it was the shtick that became his life. He went from commenting on random illogical stuff to talking about what was wrong and what needed to change to bitter preaching. You can go on YouTube and see his transformation over the years.

Funny


Still funny, with a touch of bitter


Completely Bitter

Originally Posted by Imosted

So tell us with your infinite wisdom How things work? If you say this is Geriatric Dumbass.

Its not up to us to know how it works, You don't have to be smartest person in the world and know everything , you jus have to be smart enough to know that you r not and surround yourself with the right people.

Originally Posted by DOMS

Complaining, it was the shtick that became his life. He went from commenting on random illogical stuff to talking about what was wrong and what needed to change to bitter preaching. You can go on YouTube and see his transformation over the years.

I see your point. Well met.

Originally Posted by phosphor

I see your point. Well met.

I used to like his act.

Originally Posted by troubador

Legislating away competition is also not a capitalist move.

one of the many aspects of the managed market economy here in the US, but that has been going on since the 70's in the auto industry to keep US auto manufactures competitive in their own country.

the constant de-funding of public education from the university level on down in the US is is going to hurt us the most in the long run. less & less US students are getting engineering degrees or advanced degrees in sciences. kids are lazy nobody wants to work hard using their brains anymore. recent data is showing that most of the brightest in the US are moving to business degrees preparing for fields in financial markets because that's the industry/market were the guaranteed money is.

Originally Posted by Big Smoothy

That "American Dream" term has been used, abused, and propagandized by the gov and media so much it's become a farce, and the butt of jokes.

the American Dream has been a farce for quite some time. owning a house in a decent neighborhood with good schools, having a a car or two, and saving money for retirement ALL depends on having STEADY jobs with INCOMES THAT RISE...

Originally Posted by Big Smoothy

Indeed, LAM.

I teach in East Asia.

Very competitive. Education is serious stuff. Parents can be very difficult and demanding.

The difference is enormous.

I'm not saying this is good, but East Asia is growing by leaps and bounds in many ways.

Many of my students are in the US to study now, and will go to the US to study....but they will return to work in East Asia.

They know that the American economic model has many flaws.

yOU LI POAK, POAK FIED RI?

The American Dream morphs through generations, it never dies....The great thing about America though is that we can have dreams and if you try hard enough the dream can come true and t doesn't have to be the same dream as everyone else.

Right now a large portion of the American people have the dream that they will win a large amount of money, become a day trader and get that sudden winning stock or get famous and have money thrown in their laps and not have to do shit, thats why we have people recording horrible assaults in McDonalds instead of trying to help, they'd rather be known as the viral video uploader than as the hero who stood up for a beaten down soul....As with any Dream some people are so wrapped up in it that they forget reality in their pursuit of it....

Originally Posted by maniclion

Right now a large portion of the American people have the dream that they will win a large amount of money, become a day trader and get that sudden winning stock or get famous and have money thrown in their laps and not have to do shit, thats why we have people recording horrible assaults in McDonalds instead of trying to help, they'd rather be known as the viral video uploader than as the hero who stood up for a beaten down soul....As with any Dream some people are so wrapped up in it that they forget reality in their pursuit of it....

Spot-on.

The age of videos, and 15 minutes of fame.

Picking a winning stock or winning the lotto. A dream.....

The US seems a bit creepy of late, but perhaps that's just from my brief snippets from the US media.

Originally Posted by Big Smoothy

Spot-on.

The age of videos, and 15 minutes of fame.

Picking a winning stock or winning the lotto. A dream.....

The US seems a bit creepy of late, but perhaps that's just from my brief snippets from the US media.

What Dream do you think Selby was having a Requiem for? Mrs. Goldberg with her gameshow fanaticism, Harry with his big score....gonna get a lot of bread man. lots of bread....

Originally Posted by DOMS

I label you a cross dresser and a pedophile. You get up most mornings, put on a dress. Then you grab a handful of candy and get into your panel van. Then you drive down to the preschool and try to diddle the boys. You're a fucking sick person.

Originally Posted by DOMS

But it's no wonder you get your jollies off Carlin. He bashes the US and you're not even American. Americans spell it "humor", not "humour." "Swallow your pride"? So you find having to listen to comedians that aren't from your country (Australian?) to be distasteful? Keep throwing that flag waving stuff around. It's so not hypocritical.

I don't get off on bashing America as some of my favourite people and ideals are American. I'm just dead against ignorance, racism, bigotry, patriotism and self importance. All of which the US have no shortage of so I enjoy listening to people such as Carlin, Carl Sagan and Bill Hicks as it makes me feel sane to know that others feel just as I do. All were humanists who only wanted this planet to be a better place, they realised that we as a race are doomed if we don't change our attitudes as a whole.

As for spelling, well big fckn deal. You use American spelling and I use traditional English spelling. Who cares?

Originally Posted by DOMS

It's not so much the underlying message. It's the way he delivers it. Full of despair and hopelessness. He talks about the corporations owning the US and politicians being corrupt. But certainly I mustn't agree with that because I don't like him. Oh wait, that's what I said here.

George got darker in his older days as his career was not in jeopardy of failure and he didn't have anything to lose by expressing his most passionate feelings towards the country he loved. Bill Hicks never watered down his material and as a result his career suffered for it. I don't watch these guys simply for laughs, I watch them because they make you think and that's a rare trait to find in comedy but to be honest, I don't even class these two characters as comedians.

Originally Posted by DOMS

I don't rely on entertainers to learn about my country and its politicians. Instead, I look at a broad spectrum of sources, educate myself, and craft an informed opinion.

But hey, if you, and people like you, need a puppet show in order to learn, knock yourself out.

I don't care for your politics nor mine. Though I'm fucking relieved that we don't have a fundamentalist Christian in the Whitehouse who gets excited at the idea of blowing the shit out of innocent women and children and who claims to have a direct line of communication to God himself. Obama is a breath of fresh air compared to that bible thumping warlord. Any American who continues to support him (and all Bush apologetics) should be ashamed to have ever supported such a demon, and his father was just as bad. Early days of post 9/11 I can understand how he managed to get the public behind him however it shouldn't have taken long to realise he's nothing but a twist evil fuck with a deadly, greedy agenda and it's your reputation as an American citizen that has suffered as a result.
For the record, this is just to clarify my opinions as you have referred to me as an "Obama lover" when in reality it is simply the resentment I hold for your former president that leaves me boggled as to why Obama receives such a bad wrap.

Fuck George Bush and his pathetic, incompetent son.

Originally Posted by LAM

the constant de-funding of public education from the university level on down in the US is is going to hurt us the most in the long run.

The universities are also involved in some major bullshit. A lot of them are taking students' money just to give them useless degrees; they keep info from students about the way things really work. Funding in my state (and maybe the rest also?) is based on the percent of graduates a school produces, so they just pump them through. I knew a kid with a Master's in Exercise Science who couldn't take blood pressure(actually he didn't have any idea where to even begin). Now having two science degrees, whenever I hear about funding public education and giving more kids a chance at college I always think 'Why? Much of the education is poor quality and half the degrees are worthless.' It's a rigged business; university jobs are created, it brings people and businesses into the area under the guise that it will provide a needed useful service... which is only true part of the time.

What I just went through with college was unreal. To say my experience was disappointing would be a huge understatement. It was a sick joke they put me through.

Originally Posted by troubador

The universities are also involved in some major bullshit. A lot of them are taking students' money just to give them useless degrees; they keep info from students about the way things really work. Funding in my state (and maybe the rest also?) is based on the percent of graduates a school produces, so they just pump them through. I knew a kid with a Master's in Exercise Science who couldn't take blood pressure(actually he didn't have any idea where to even begin). Now having two science degrees, whenever I hear about funding public education and giving more kids a chance at college I always think 'Why? Much of the education is poor quality and half the degrees are worthless.' It's a rigged business; university jobs are created, it brings people and businesses into the area under the guise that it will provide a needed useful service... which is only true part of the time.

There is a new term I'm parroting.

The Education Industrial-Complex.

FAFSA increases student loan ceilings --> Unis & colleges raise tuition --> FAFSA raise student ceilings again --> Unis & colleges & vocational school raise tuition.

A BA from the University of Washington (public state Uni of course) is now over $11,000 per year.

X 4 years.

= $44,000 minimum for a BA that will get you a job staking shelves in a grocery store.

And, more tuition hikes are on the way because of the budget shortfalls....

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/an...brew-link.html

GICH!

Originally Posted by maniclion

The American Dream morphs through generations, it never dies....The great thing about America though is that we can have dreams and if you try hard enough the dream can come true and t doesn't have to be the same dream as everyone else.

Right now a large portion of the American people have the dream that they will win a large amount of money, become a day trader and get that sudden winning stock or get famous and have money thrown in their laps and not have to do shit, thats why we have people recording horrible assaults in McDonalds instead of trying to help, they'd rather be known as the viral video uploader than as the hero who stood up for a beaten down soul....As with any Dream some people are so wrapped up in it that they forget reality in their pursuit of it....

Agreed to your first part.But most people all over the world do not realise that if you work hard in your own country,your dreams will be realised too !!

To your second part,not only Americans,but many people in my country India,particularly my state Punjab,have,or have been made to see dreams of big dollars (1$=45 Indian rupees approx),of people coming back to their native land just cause someone put a truckload of money in their bags?? NO !! They had to work hard !! Put people still hope they will become rich overnight.

Even here,people will do the same McDonalds thing..why the people??Even the police will stand as spectators watching a fight,and when things turn crazy,step in. You really cant do much about it..good souls are hard to find.

does McDonalds in India serve a Big Mac with an all beef patty?

Originally Posted by theCaptn'

does McDonalds in India serve a Big Mac with an all beef patty?

lol my fiance was hindu. Funny shit.

Originally Posted by jasjotbains

Agreed to your first part.But most people all over the world do not realise that if you work hard in your own country,your dreams will be realised too !!

To your second part,not only Americans,but many people in my country India,particularly my state Punjab,have,or have been made to see dreams of big dollars (1$=45 Indian rupees approx),of people coming back to their native land just cause someone put a truckload of money in their bags?? NO !! They had to work hard !! Put people still hope they will become rich overnight.

Even here,people will do the same McDonalds thing..why the people??Even the police will stand as spectators watching a fight,and when things turn crazy,step in. You really cant do much about it..good souls are hard to find.

It is much harder for a Dalit in your country to realize their dreams, in the US everyone has equal opportunity for the most part to realize their dreams, sure some are more privileged due to their parents financial status, but nothing holds us back once we become adults.....

Originally Posted by gamma

Its not up to us to know how it works, You don't have to be smartest person in the world and know everything , you jus have to be smart enough to know that you r not and surround yourself with the right people.

It is up to you to learn but i wasn't saying it in that way. Realist is a troll and a retard so i was just poking him. You might not know him but anyways bro