Thread: Suicide. Anyone thought about it?

Originally Posted by myCATpowerlifts

He may do what I used to do to christians, and hear out only the most impractical followers statements, and made judgements on that alone.

From what I've read, one of the things he seemed to do what let his thoughts on Christianity effect his thoughts on Buddhism.

Originally Posted by myCATpowerlifts

The buddhist idea of letting go and being natural are like the taoists and like the native americans back before we slaughtered them all..

Apparently, being "natural" involved war, cannibalism, and infant sacrifice.

Originally Posted by DOMS

From what I've read, one of the things he seemed to do what let his thoughts on Christianity effect his thoughts on Buddhism.

Clever observation.

Apparently, being "natural" involved war, cannibalism, and infant sacrifice.

yea that's mexico natives for ya, but nothern natives weren't so much about that. And you're focusing on the most negative aspect of certains people's in certain cultures. I'm not saying they were perfect, but at least they didn't destroy the environment OR themselves. We did that.

Buddhism is for punks

Originally Posted by myCATpowerlifts

The drove several species of animal to extinction and waged war constantly.

They only reason they didn't cause more damage was due to a lack of technology. Animal hides and sticks were about the limit of what the could do.

Originally Posted by DOMS

The drove several species of animal to extinction and waged war constantly.

They only reason they didn't cause more damage was due to a lack of technology. Animal hides and sticks were about the limit of what the could do.

OH come on dude.
That's a strawman if i ever saw one.

All humans wage war over territory and resources, as do ALL living creatures.

And they're whole spirituality and stance on life was to recycle, not waste, only use what they need etc.

What animals are you referring to??
Don't say bison/buffalo.

Originally Posted by DOMS

That's a person failing, not life. Life is full options and the ability to make what you want of it.

Most people won't try to make much of their lives. Which is why I stand by my statement that most poor people deserve to be poor.

I'm very sorry that you believe that.

This is my experience of life:
One person can plant 10 seeds and ten plants will come up.
Another will plant the exact same seeds and for whatever reason, 20 plants come up.
Likewise, another person can plant 10 seeds and nothing comes up.

We can all put in the same effort, the same energy and yet everyone yields differently and for those who yield the least, life has no joy.

I find it interesting that those who reap the most in life don't even know the source of their blessings. They are so proud and haughty, they believe they accomplished by their own will, their own power.

Originally Posted by lwb357

I'm very sorry that you believe that.

This is my experience of life:
One person can plant 10 seeds and ten plants will come up.
Another will plant the exact same seeds and for whatever reason, 20 plants come up.
Likewise, another person can plant 10 seeds and nothing comes up.

We can all put in the same effort, the same energy and yet everyone yields differently and for those who yield the least, life has no joy.

I find it interesting that those who reap the most in life don't even know the source of their blessings. They are so proud and haughty, they believe they accomplished by their own will, their own power.

You're new, so I'll bring you up to speed.

I grew up as poor as you can in this country. I was homeless and starved for many years. Often going without even for a day or more.

I did accomplish what I have by my own will and my own power. No one gave me anything.

My view on the poor isn't because I have and they don't. It's because I was there and know first hand how they live.

Originally Posted by DOMS

You're new, so I'll bring you up to speed.

I grew up as poor as you can in this country. I was homeless and starved for many years. Often going without even for a day or more.

I did accomplish what I have by my own will and my own power. No one gave me anything.

My view on the poor isn't because I have and they don't. It's because I was there and know first hand how they live.

Okay, so that is what God used to create the energy to get where you are. However, he also blessed you with a crop when you planted whatever seed you have planted.

When I plant my seeds, nothing comes up.

Life is about succeeding more often than you fail. If you had not succeeded, you would still be where you started.
It's like climbing stairs if the net effect of life is that you have been allowed to climb more steps than you went backward (and everyone takes steps backwards occasionally), then you are ahead of where you started.

People who consider suicide (what this thread was about) are those who never seem to get ahead on the steps no matter how much energy they pour into it. So, at the end of the day it seems as if there is just no hope.

People don't commit suicide because of where they have been in life. They commit suicide because it seems as if there is no hope to move forward from where they are. Even if where they are is only in their mind.

Originally Posted by DOMS

The drove several species of animal to extinction and waged war constantly.

They only reason they didn't cause more damage was due to a lack of technology. Animal hides and sticks were about the limit of what the could do.

I just scrolled fast and it stopped on this post, let me guess...you are talking about...the Chinese?

Just wait until they flood 3 Gorges Dam...whole cities will be under water, are they going to clean out those cities of every building, of all the garbage, how about the land fills, sewage systems, etc.... It's going to be such a shock to the ecosystem I'd hate to see how hard the planet tries to buck us off when it goes down NEXT YEAR...

I don't care what people do to one another, but when they drag the world down with them....that's just selfish to future generations....

Originally Posted by lwb357

Okay, so that is what God used to create the energy to get where you are. However, he also blessed you with a crop when you planted whatever seed you have planted.

When I plant my seeds, nothing comes up.

Life is about succeeding more often than you fail. If you had not succeeded, you would still be where you started.
It's like climbing stairs if the net effect of life is that you have been allowed to climb more steps than you went backward (and everyone takes steps backwards occasionally), then you are ahead of where you started.

People who consider suicide (what this thread was about) are those who never seem to get ahead on the steps no matter how much energy they pour into it. So, at the end of the day it seems as if there is just no hope.

People don't commit suicide because of where they have been in life. They commit suicide because it seems as if there is no hope to move forward from where they are. Even if where they are is only in their mind.

I think the highlighted is the key point here.
People feel that they will never be happy again, and that's why they kill themselves.

Its ignorance really.

Originally Posted by lwb357

People don't commit suicide because of where they have been in life. They commit suicide because it seems as if there is no hope to move forward from where they are. Even if where they are is only in their mind.

A person is culmination of all the events preceding the current moment. You cannot separate the person from his past.

That's not to say that they are somehow victims. Rather, it means they have made decisions about their lives that have brought them to their current situation. In other words, they have steered themselves to their current location.

But yes, they have wrongly convinced themselves that they have no hope--keeping in mind that they are the ones oppressing themselves.

Originally Posted by myCATpowerlifts

I think the highlighted is the key point here.
People feel that they will never be happy again, and that's why they kill themselves.

Its ignorance really.

I wouldn't say it's ignorance. I know that when one emotion overpowers all others, even when your telling yourself it's irrational the emotion just overwhelms, if you don't have a coping mechanism (for me it's playing my guitar or writing) to act as a conduit for that emotion to drain out then it just builds and builds into a harmful explosion.

Originally Posted by maniclion

I just scrolled fast and it stopped on this post, let me guess...you are talking about...the Chinese?

Just wait until they flood 3 Gorges Dam...whole cities will be under water, are they going to clean out those cities of every building, of all the garbage, how about the land fills, sewage systems, etc.... It's going to be such a shock to the ecosystem I'd hate to see how hard the planet tries to buck us off when it goes down NEXT YEAR...

I don't care what people do to one another, but when they drag the world down with them....that's just selfish to future generations....

Your example of the Chinese bolsters my argument about American Indians. As the Chinese have developed more advanced technology, they have done more damage to the world around them.

Had the American Indians lasted long enough, the would have done the same.

Originally Posted by DOMS

Your example of the Chinese bolsters my argument about American Indians. As the Chinese have developed more advanced technology, they have done more damage to the world around them.

Had the American Indians lasted long enough, the would have done the same.

I don't know, it could go either way. Many Native American tribes based their decisions on the 7th Generation Principle. "If we build this now what are the Pro's vs. Cons 7 generations from now?" Not all of them did of course but you know it sounds like a wise way to ensure survival of our species, I'd like to see such a rule worked into our capitalist system. There just has to be a balance between Laissez-faire and responsibility to future generations. I believe that Laissez-faire drives progress, but I truly believe we can do it with 7th Generation Principles applied....

Also me and my friend were discussing how for our capitalist system to work a little greed is a good motivator, but we have been way too lenient with the Bernie Madoffs who abuse the system and then get slaps on the wrists, he should be executed for all of the people he hurt. That's why these guys do this they usually just get a slap on the wrist, we both think he'll be let go in less than 10 years.

And we have got to remove the system that allows politicians to play the game for the benefit of their bank accounts, also the FDA who allows pharma, to hire the agents who should be looking out for our best interest, on as consultants which is little more than a bribe. Too many medications are hitting the market that end up doing more harm than good. Nasal Sprays that cause nosebleeds and sore throats, depression meds that make you suicidal, pain meds that cause worse pain or deaths.

And then there is the Justice system where laws stay in place just to keep the budget higher so they can enforce more laws that keep the budgets high. Give them fixed budgets that aren't influenced by how well they enforced the laws. Capitalism and Justice is a bad mixture, it's the only reason marijuana and steroids are still demonized.... And telling us that making quotas for traffic tickets is a myth.

Take the money from a drug bust, or all the speeding tickets and transfer it to education.

Originally Posted by DOMS

Your example of the Chinese bolsters my argument about American Indians. As the Chinese have developed more advanced technology, they have done more damage to the world around them.

Had the American Indians lasted long enough, the would have done the same.

Obviously we have shown them the way because a good example we have not set for the world. freaking fat ass kids in elementary schools having heart attack, CVD, etc.

they say American Indian was on the decline before Columbus came. when they started agriculture they formed into into larger groups and there was more disease, etc.

Originally Posted by maniclion

I don't know, it could go either way. Many Native American tribes based their decisions on the 7th Generation Principle. "If we build this now what are the Pro's vs. Cons 7 generations from now?" Not all of them did of course but you know it sounds like a wise way to ensure survival of our species, I'd like to see such a rule worked into our capitalist system. There just has to be a balance between Laissez-faire and responsibility to future generations. I believe that Laissez-faire drives progress, but I truly believe we can do it with 7th Generation Principles applied....

Also me and my friend were discussing how for our capitalist system to work a little greed is a good motivator, but we have been way too lenient with the Bernie Madoffs who abuse the system and then get slaps on the wrists, he should be executed for all of the people he hurt. That's why these guys do this they usually just get a slap on the wrist, we both think he'll be let go in less than 10 years.

And we have got to remove the system that allows politicians to play the game for the benefit of their bank accounts, also the FDA who allows pharma, to hire the agents who should be looking out for our best interest, on as consultants which is little more than a bribe. Too many medications are hitting the market that end up doing more harm than good. Nasal Sprays that cause nosebleeds and sore throats, depression meds that make you suicidal, pain meds that cause worse pain or deaths.

And then there is the Justice system where laws stay in place just to keep the budget higher so they can enforce more laws that keep the budgets high. Give them fixed budgets that aren't influenced by how well they enforced the laws. Capitalism and Justice is a bad mixture, it's the only reason marijuana and steroids are still demonized.... And telling us that making quotas for traffic tickets is a myth.

Take the money from a drug bust, or all the speeding tickets and transfer it to education.

Can't argue with any of this.

Originally Posted by LAM

Obviously we have shown them the way because a good example we have not set for the world. freaking fat ass kids in elementary schools having heart attack, CVD, etc.

Because it's always, always, always someone else's fault and never the person actually committing the deed.

Originally Posted by LAM

they say American Indian was on the decline before Columbus came. when they started agriculture they formed into into larger groups and there was more disease, etc.

The only decline that I'm aware of was in the south-west. A drought had decimated entire tribes. Though I wouldn't be surprised if they were. Of all the cultures that I read about, they steamed to be the most stagnant.

Originally Posted by DOMS

Because it's always, always, always someone else's fault and never the person actually committing the deed.

if the child learns bad behavior from the parents, it's most definitely their fault. children are born stupid, their heads are empty, all of their behavior is learned for their environment. social scientist and genetic researchers have all confirmed the powerful effects that modeling. this is why many families carry the same "characteristics" from generation to generation...

Originally Posted by LAM

if the child learns bad behavior from the parents, it's most definitely their fault. children are born stupid, their heads are empty, all of their behavior is learned for their environment. social scientist and genetic researchers have all confirmed the powerful effects that modeling. this is why many families carry the same "characteristics" from generation to generation...

And, barring death, they all grow into adults and make decisions for themselves.

"But, oh no! They had a rough childhood! They can never be responsible for the themselves. Ever!"

At some point everyone becomes accountable for themselves and must make the decision to stay where they are, slide back, or progress. If they choose not to move forward, it's their own fault.

Originally Posted by DOMS

And, barring death, they all grow into adults and make decisions for themselves.

"But, oh no! They had a rough childhood! They can never be responsible for the themselves. Ever!"

At some point everyone becomes accountable for themselves and must make the decision to stay where they are, slide back, or progress. If they choose not to move forward, it's their own fault.

sure "some" behaviors can be changed or modified. but you should read up on psychology and the development of the human psyche, it is not so easily changed. if it were it would be easy to convert the sociopath or psychopath into a "normal" person with a full functioning super ego.

Originally Posted by LAM

sure "some" behaviors can be changed or modified. but you should read up on psychology and the development of the human psyche, it is not so easily changed. if it were it would be easy to convert the sociopath or psychopath into a "normal" person with a full functioning super ego.

I have, and do, read up on psychology. It, particularly NLP, is a minor hobby of mine.

I didn't say it was easy--few worthwhile things are--but it's a choice that most people must make. If you do not change, you have only yourself to blame.

It a bad sign these days that so many blame their problems on someone else.

NLP is for the conscious mind the remaining 90% of the subconscious mind is inaccessible...

I'm thinking about it right now. My office, cubicle job, is that boring.