I didn't know attornies would lie :)

**ROID** · 06-23-2011, 09:57 AM

If you sign a contract with an attorney and pay him X but later decide you do not want the services of the attorney, does the attorney get to keep all of X ?

**Big Pimpin** · 06-23-2011, 11:00 AM

What does the contract say about terminations of services?

As an attorney once told me, a signed contract is nothing but the beginning point of negotiation.

**withoutrulers** · 06-23-2011, 11:04 AM

I found out recently that anyone who wears a suit and smiles at you while shaking your hand is in fact a steaming bag of shit. You might consider pitting another attorney against this shiester.

**Chubby** · 06-23-2011, 11:10 AM

everyone is capable of lying.

**LAM** · 06-23-2011, 11:13 AM

Homer Simpson says it takes 2 people to lie: one to tell it and another other to believe it..lol

**Big Pimpin** · 06-23-2011, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by withoutrulers

I found out recently that anyone who wears a suit and smiles at you while shaking your hand is in fact a steaming bag of shit. You might consider pitting another attorney against this shiester.

NOTE:

Only about .1% of attorneys will sue another attorney and there's a fair chance if you go to an attorney seeking to sue another attorney, said attorney will rat you and your case out to the other ole boy attorney.

Typically your State Bar website will list attorneys along with their specialties and the good attorneys tend to be the ones that will sue other attorneys.

I have an attorney in ATL that hates most attorneys because they are dumbasses and he literally has case after case where he has sued other attorneys and won. One attorney hired him because they had a 6 figure judgment against another law firm and he wasn't getting anywhere. My attorney went into this law firm and within 2 hours had the firm shut down and heading toward bankruptcy. Needless to say he gets his rocks off kicking corrupt attorney ass.

Attorneys are a close knit corrupt bunch. Buyer beware.

**withoutrulers** · 06-23-2011, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by Big Pimpin

NOTE:

Only about .1% of attorneys will sue another attorney and there's a fair chance if you go to an attorney seeking to sue another attorney, said attorney will rat you and your case out to the other ole boy attorney.

Typically your State Bar website will list attorneys along with their specialties and the good attorneys tend to be the ones that will sue other attorneys.

I have an attorney in ATL that hates most attorneys because they are dumbasses and he literally has case after case where he has sued other attorneys and won. One attorney hired him because they had a 6 figure judgment against another law firm and he wasn't getting anywhere. My attorney went into this law firm and within 2 hours had the firm shut down and heading toward bankruptcy. Needless to say he gets his rocks off kicking corrupt attorney ass.

Attorneys are a close knit corrupt bunch. Buyer beware.

This is useful info thank you. And I stand by my assessment about suit wearers. The analogy also works with cigar smokers as well. Cigar smoker=human garbage

Did you have to pay far out the ass to hire the talented lawyer?

**jagbender** · 06-23-2011, 12:50 PM

Attorney

I can tell that you are lying, your lips are moving.

**maxpro2** · 06-23-2011, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by ROID

If you sign a contract with an attorney and pay him X but later decide you do not want the services of the attorney, does the attorney get to keep all of X ?

We need way more information to help you out. What were the terms of the contract? Why do you not want his services (did he mess something up?) How much work has he done already? What state are you in?

Some states require that the attorney and client submit to arbitration to resolve disagreements about fees.

**maxpro2** · 06-23-2011, 12:54 PM

Oh, and the plural of attorney is attorneys.

**IronAddict** · 06-23-2011, 12:57 PM

An attorney is just practicing to become a politician, and in my experience, they lie like a phuquin rug!

**Big Pimpin** · 06-23-2011, 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by withoutrulers

This is useful info thank you. And I stand by my assessment about suit wearers. The analogy also works with cigar smokers as well. Cigar smoker=human garbage

Did you have to pay far out the ass to hire the talented lawyer?

One type of case my attorney sees and tries over and over is attorneys not paying court reporters for private depositions all over a few misspelled words. Court reporters make little at their real jobs but can make a killing doing depositions. My attorney has sued this one particular show boat attorney over this BS 3 different times and won each time. Needless to say the asshole pays his court reporters now. I bring this up because the poor court reporters can't find attorneys who will sue other attorneys.

**WG 3.0** · 06-23-2011, 03:59 PM

Attorneys lie? Really? No, say it ain't so, looks like all hope is lost.

**ceazur** · 06-23-2011, 04:52 PM

**Chubby** · 06-23-2011, 04:53 PM

The word 'Attorney' is just a title only. Behind that title, there is an imperfect and corruptable human.

**maxpro2** · 06-23-2011, 10:19 PM

Originally Posted by Chubby

The word 'Attorney' is just a title only. Behind that title, there is an imperfect and corruptable human.

This isn't true for just attorneys. And, we don't even know the details of this guy's situation. Until I hear more, I am going to assume that the poster is in the wrong. After all, he signed a contract for services and now thinks he doesn't have to pay for some inexplicable reason.

**maniclion** · 06-24-2011, 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by maxpro2

This isn't true for just attorneys. And, we don't even know the details of this guy's situation. Until I hear more, I am going to assume that the poster is in the wrong. After all, he signed a contract for services and now thinks he doesn't have to pay for some inexplicable reason.

The poster stated in regular type in post 1, paragraph 1, (note that it is not fine print), that he just wants to know if the attorney can keep all of X. No where did he indicate his intentions or thoughts of not paying. His post was wholly interrogative and I submit that your reply was slanderous libel....

**Jeeper** · 06-25-2011, 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by ROID

If you sign a contract with an attorney and pay him X but later decide you do not want the services of the attorney, does the attorney get to keep all of X ?

It completely depends on the terms contained in it. If it does say that the attorney keeps it all then why are you mad???? You had an opportunity to read it and then you signed it. Why get pissed at something you voluntarily entered into?

**ROID** · 06-26-2011, 08:15 AM

Originally Posted by maxpro2

This isn't true for just attorneys. And, we don't even know the details of this guy's situation. Until I hear more, I am going to assume that the poster is in the wrong. After all, he signed a contract for services and now thinks he doesn't have to pay for some inexplicable reason.

He didn't do jack shit. Not one thing but cash the check. He never performed any services because I decided I didn't need his services and he decided he didn't need to give any of the money back. I offered him his retrainer which I gave him triple of his asked retainer and he said too bad.

IMO, he can't afford to give the money back. Its cool. I think I will find away around it and he will realize that it's not worth the money.

**maxpro2** · 06-26-2011, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by ROID

He didn't do jack shit. Not one thing but cash the check. He never performed any services because I decided I didn't need his services and he decided he didn't need to give any of the money back. I offered him his retrainer which I gave him triple of his asked retainer and he said too bad.

IMO, he can't afford to give the money back. Its cool. I think I will find away around it and he will realize that it's not worth the money.

Ok, so basically you breached the contract for no valid reason. If this was anyone other than a lawyer, then you'd be out of luck. Because it is a lawyer, you may have some leeway, but it's not certain without legal research.

Lawyers are bound by the rules of professional conduct, which are based on the ABA model rules but can vary a bit depending on your state. Notably, these rules state that a lawyer cannot charge an unreasonable fee. There may be some room to maneuver there, but you need to find some precedent first.

What state are you in? Many states publish lawyer disciplinary cases on their website. I would start there, looking for court opinions discussing fee disputes between attorney and client.

Another free resource is Google Scholar , which is like a free LexisNexis/Westlaw but not as powerful or accurate because it doesn't show what cases are still good law. Select your state, and do some searches. You are looking for cases that are similar to yours---i.e., ones where the client signed a contract and terminated it before the lawyer did any work.

**maxpro2** · 06-26-2011, 12:15 PM

Some terms that may help you are: breach of contract, performance, and anticipatory breach.

**ROID** · 06-27-2011, 09:07 AM

Originally Posted by maxpro2

Ok, so basically you breached the contract for no valid reason. If this was anyone other than a lawyer, then you'd be out of luck. Because it is a lawyer, you may have some leeway, but it's not certain without legal research.

Lawyers are bound by the rules of professional conduct, which are based on the ABA model rules but can vary a bit depending on your state. Notably, these rules state that a lawyer cannot charge an unreasonable fee. There may be some room to maneuver there, but you need to find some precedent first.

What state are you in? Many states publish lawyer disciplinary cases on their website. I would start there, looking for court opinions discussing fee disputes between attorney and client.

Another free resource is Google Scholar , which is like a free LexisNexis/Westlaw but not as powerful or accurate because it doesn't show what cases are still good law. Select your state, and do some searches. You are looking for cases that are similar to yours---i.e., ones where the client signed a contract and terminated it before the lawyer did any work.

I payed a healthy retainer for a service I thought I might need but didn't need and will never need.

For some reason people think I have a lot of money and it doesn't bother them to steal from me.

Basically the guy is a fucking douche like all other attorneys. He even pretended to be someone else when i called on the phone one time.

I promise you he keeps a gun close by.

I"m gonna drunk email him today just for the hell of it. I'm gonna get my money out of him one way or another.

**ROID** · 06-27-2011, 09:09 AM

Originally Posted by ROID

I payed a healthy retainer for a service I thought I might need but didn't need and will never need.

For some reason people think I have a lot of money and it doesn't bother them to steal from me.

Basically the guy is a fucking douche like all other attorneys. He even pretended to be someone else when i called on the phone one time.

I promise you he keeps a gun close by.

I"m gonna drunk email him today just for the hell of it. I'm gonna get my money out of him one way or another.

correction, I payed 4x the retainer. I wasn't asking for all the money back but I thought at least half would be more than fair for talking to a guy for 20mins.

nuff said

I'm gonna get drunk. or as drunk as 12 beers will let me then i'm gonna get high of that hydro then i'm gonna drink and drive and then i'm gonna hope on a jet plane maybe just because I can do these things

**maxpro2** · 06-27-2011, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by ROID

I"m gonna drunk email him today just for the hell of it. I'm gonna get my money out of him one way or another.

Orrrrrrr, you can take my advice and find legal precedent that you can use against him. Then threaten to file or file a disciplinary complaint with your state's bar. Use that to increase your bargaining position.

You still haven't told me what state you're in.

**maxpro2** · 06-27-2011, 06:34 PM

This is why I'm asking what state you're in: Some Non-Refundable Fees Are Refundable - Lawyer On A Leash

Another example: http://www.abrahamwatkins.com/Firm-N...fundable.shtml

**maniclion** · 06-27-2011, 07:57 PM

If you paid a retainer+ then send him lots of mail asking him to look over the fine print on silly shit like the warranty for your new microwave or the contest details from a product you bought....you know irritating petty shit.....but be serious about it....

**scot smith** · 06-28-2011, 02:03 PM

the only thing worse than a politician

**ROID** · 06-30-2011, 09:25 AM

Originally Posted by maxpro2

Ok, so basically you breached the contract for no valid reason. If this was anyone other than a lawyer, then you'd be out of luck. Because it is a lawyer, you may have some leeway, but it's not certain without legal research.

Lawyers are bound by the rules of professional conduct, which are based on the ABA model rules but can vary a bit depending on your state. Notably, these rules state that a lawyer cannot charge an unreasonable fee. There may be some room to maneuver there, but you need to find some precedent first.

What state are you in? Many states publish lawyer disciplinary cases on their website. I would start there, looking for court opinions discussing fee disputes between attorney and client.

Another free resource is Google Scholar , which is like a free LexisNexis/Westlaw but not as powerful or accurate because it doesn't show what cases are still good law. Select your state, and do some searches. You are looking for cases that are similar to yours---i.e., ones where the client signed a contract and terminated it before the lawyer did any work.

I live in Florida.

The best way I can put this is, I thought I needed a service and then I found out that I did not. I did sign a contract but I'm not going to follow through with something that would do me more harm than good no matter what I have signed. Plus he did not have to do any work. In my twisted mind it seems that we both breached the contract then.

**cacrv** · 06-30-2011, 09:45 AM

Originally Posted by scot smith

the only thing worse than a politician

i think they are in close running

**maxpro2** · 06-30-2011, 09:42 PM

ETHICS, OPINION 93-2

Question 5. If a substantial nonrefundable fee is paid to the attorney and, before any services are performed by the attorney, the client dies, or discharges the attorney, or the services called for by the attorney-client employment agreement are no longer needed for some other reason, could the attorney be subject to discipline for charging a clearly excessive fee in violation of Rule 4-1.5(a) in the event of a refusal to refund any of the "nonrefundable fee?"

As we stated in Opinion 76-27 [since withdrawn], the lawyer might but would not necessarily be guilty of charging an excessive fee. Again, we get into definitions of terms. We interpret the question as referring to a payment by a client to a lawyer of a sum of money designated as "nonrefundable fee," part of which is intended to compensate the lawyer for being available but not for specific services, and part of which is intended as a present payment for legal services to be performed in the future. If the lawyer performs no legal services, obtains no benefits for the client, and has not lost other employment opportunities as a result of agreeing to represent the client, we believe the lawyer might well be guilty of charging an excessive fee if no part of it was refunded. Dealing with an abstract situation, we cannot be more precise.

On the other hand, an attorney of towering reputation just by agreeing to represent a client may cause a threatened lawsuit to vanish and thereby obtain a substantial benefit for the client and be entitled to keep the entire amount paid, particularly if other employment had been lost or declined in order to represent that particular client.

The Committee does not believe that, by designating a retainer as nonrefundable, a lawyer is automatically insulated from a claim that the fee is excessive. Whether or not the fee is excessive under the circumstances is governed by Rule 4-1.5 rather than use of the description "nonrefundable."

This definitely gives you a great argument. What does the contract say specifically about retainer or the fee being nonrefundable? I'm pretty sure in Florida they have fee arbitration whenever a client disagrees with the lawyer. This is great for you because you don't really need an attorney to do this.

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