Thread: Got State Pension? NJ Just did the Unthinkable

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

Yes, but they would not be getting paid that much if the unions hadn't raised the wages. And people would have never had to unionize had they been getting paid a decent wage in the first place.

Yes this is true and it is one of the best aspects of what unions can do and have historically done for people with a trade. Many lived very fruitful lives because of it and that should not be overlooked. Hence why them being here is fine just limit the power to collective bargaining on wages and basic benefits, no more, no less. That way they are not a burden on the companies that employ the workers; as it should be if America wants to be a manufacturer again. You can have your cake and eat it too people just need to realize things have to change to a reasonable degree. Selling that without starting a riot like in Wisconsin is going to be the real challenge.

It really shouldn't be as difficult as it is to terminate a union employee, and I know quite a few union folk who should have been fired years ago. It's ridiculous that greedy fucks have to ruin everything.

Yes I agree here too, the same goes for tenured teachers who bring nothing to the classroom (many aren't like this but there are some that suck, I had a few in my public school days). See my post above, remove a lot of the rules that prevent efficiencies while keeping a safe work environment [which insurance companies and OSHA do well already cause the cost is too high not to be] and a union is a viable option.

I read just today that they changed the rules in McCormick Place in Chicago where you can setup your own tradeshow booth yourself now instead of being forced to use grossly overpriced union labor. Looks like our new Gov is doing a good job w/ bringing business back to Chicago so far. Big companies weren't even bothering getting tradeshow booths w/ us because of the union labor.
Anyways, thought I'd share.

Originally Posted by CBR Shadow

I read just today that they changed the rules in McCormick Place in Chicago where you can setup your own tradeshow booth yourself now instead of being forced to use grossly overpriced union labor. Looks like our new Gov is doing a good job w/ bringing business back to Chicago so far. Big companies weren't even bothering getting tradeshow booths w/ us because of the union labor.
Anyways, thought I'd share.

nobody is saying that unions are perfect of which very few things in reality are

Originally Posted by LAM

nobody is saying that unions are perfect of which very few things in reality are

Originally Posted by oufinny

You wonder why all the foreign manufacturers that make cars in the US are all non-union yet the workers are happy and are paid the same as the union BUT they are profitable.

Has it occurred to you that in a lot of those countries it is the law for all of the workers to be paid fair and have the best healthcare, pension and vacation time....

We need a workers party to stand for the rights of us common folk instead of Corporate Sponsored Party 1 or 2....

Originally Posted by ExLe

nothing special about Christie at all...NJ pension funds were mismanaged and underfunded like most states, they also suffered substantial losses by investments in the tech sector during the early 2000's, etc....then there is the lovely Pension Reform Act of 1994 which is when all the problems started for NJ. NJ has high incomes no reason for that state to have pension problems in terms of mathematics. problems occur when politicians stick their dick beaters into thing that they have no real knowledge of to fulfill campaign promises and or win elections.

Originally Posted by LAM

nothing special about Christie at all...NJ pension funds were mismanaged and underfunded like most states, they also suffered substantial losses by investments in the tech sector during the early 2000's, etc....then there is the lovely Pension Reform Act of 1994 which is when all the problems started for NJ. NJ has high incomes no reason for that state to have pension problems in terms of mathematics. problems occur when politicians stick their dick beaters into thing that they have no real knowledge of to fulfill campaign promises and or win elections.

Are you talking about Obama?

Originally Posted by ExLe

Are you talking about Obama?

sure...all these problems started in Nov, 2009. now go eat some more lead based paint chips. and if you ran out i'm sure Rick Perry has some as he has stated the same...30+ years of economic policy that favors capital over labor is surely Obama's fault...

just refer to this graph...since 1980 every major downturn of labors share of the national income occurs during a republican presidency as a direct result of unequal economic policy.

Nonfarm Business Sector: Labor Share (PRS85006173) - FRED - St. Louis Fed

Originally Posted by LAM

sure...all these problems started in Nov, 2009. now go eat some more lead based paint chips..

just refer to this graph...since 1980 every major downturn of labors share of the national income occurs during a republican presidency as a direct result of unequal economic policy.

Nonfarm Business Sector: Labor Share (PRS85006173) - FRED - St. Louis Fed

LAM an insult? That is so unlike you...

Did the wife not give it up tonight?...

Are you still actually going to defend Obama's policies...

Not even the Democrats are voting for his 2nd stimulus...

They broke it up in parts... And they still refused... How sad when your own party has no faith in your policies...

So are you going to blame the Republicans again?...

He didn't create the problems, but he sure as hell doesn't know how to fix them...

Originally Posted by ExLe

LAM an insult? That is so unlike you...

Did the wife not give it up tonight?...

Are you still actually going to defend Obama's policies...

Not even the Democrats are voting for his 2nd stimulus...

They broke it up in parts... And they still refused... How sad when your own party has no faith in your policies...

So are you going to blame the Republicans again?...

He didn't create the problems, but he sure as hell doesn't know how to fix them...

Grover Norquist had republicans and some democrats sign a no tax increase pledge. that is why some Dems did not vote on it. upgrading the US infrastructure is a sure fire way to create jobs for many years to replace those lost in construction, etc. from the housing collapse.

The Taxpayer Protection Pledge Signers
112th Congressional List
http://s3.amazonaws.com/atrfiles/fil...ers%281%29.pdf

http://s3.amazonaws.com/atrfiles/fil...11%2828%29.pdf

* this pledge among other signs (massive lobbying) is the continuing decline of the functionality of representative government in the US. being that an economy is dynamic so is economic policy you increase regulation here, decrease it there, lower taxes here and never raise them there?

Grover designed the tax reforms under GWB in 2001 and 2003. they were designed to reduce federal revenues drastically causing increased deficits since they were not matched with cuts. with the long term goal of shrinking government and entitlement programs eventually ending all the new deal reforms. he is the text book far right conservative bully that grew up in a wealthy family in Mass father was a CEO at Polaroid, etc. that likes to stick it to poor people.

Out of options.
It's a giant shit sandwich and everyone is going to have to take a bite out of it.

States cannot keep on raising income and property taxes on their taxpayers to fund public sector benefits when the taxpayers that funds those benefits are having their salaries and benefits reduced by corporations and are loosing their jobs. Eventually the money will run out.

Originally Posted by DBowden

Out of options.
It's a giant shit sandwich and everyone is going to have to take a bite out of it.

States cannot keep on raising income and property taxes on their taxpayers to fund public sector benefits when the taxpayers that funds those benefits are having their salaries and benefits reduced by corporations and are loosing their jobs. Eventually the money will run out.

the middle class has been taking a bite for 40 years as all the data shows with the 2 income trap. states are not raising income to pay for public sector benefits, that's all political economic bs from tv. public sector pensions on average account for less than 2% of state budgets. state pension plans have been mismanaged for many years and as the FRB has steadily reduced interest rates since the 80's which causes investment funds to be placed in riskier portfolios as an attempt to compensate for inflation, etc.

all these problems started in the 80's with the lose of real income growth as productivity increases and the decline in tax progressivity.

Originally Posted by LAM

Grover Norquist had republicans and some democrats sign a no tax increase pledge. that is why some Dems did not vote on it. upgrading the US infrastructure is a sure fire way to create jobs for many years to replace those lost in construction, etc. from the housing collapse.

The Taxpayer Protection Pledge Signers
112th Congressional List
http://s3.amazonaws.com/atrfiles/fil...ers%281%29.pdf

http://s3.amazonaws.com/atrfiles/fil...11%2828%29.pdf

* this pledge among other signs (massive lobbying) is the continuing decline of the functionality of representative government in the US. being that an economy is dynamic so is economic policy you increase regulation here, decrease it there, lower taxes here and never raise them there?

Grover designed the tax reforms under GWB in 2001 and 2003. they were designed to reduce federal revenues drastically causing increased deficits since they were not matched with cuts. with the long term goal of shrinking government and entitlement programs eventually ending all the new deal reforms. he is the text book far right conservative bully that grew up in a wealthy family in Mass father was a CEO at Polaroid, etc. that likes to stick it to poor people.

Norquist is a douche and these pledges do nothing for us; one guy controls it all yet we have no say? I try to hold out hope but when the deck is stacked against us, there is not much chance of change. Does that mean we should keep the status quo in 2012, no, but I don't see massive changes happening with the GOP making fools of themselves at the debates.

Originally Posted by maniclion

Has it occurred to you that in a lot of those countries it is the law for all of the workers to be paid fair and have the best healthcare, pension and vacation time....

We need a workers party to stand for the rights of us common folk instead of Corporate Sponsored Party 1 or 2....

The downside is that puts in place wage controls, it is in fact the definition of socialism that you speak of.

Originally Posted by DBowden

Out of options.
It's a giant shit sandwich and everyone is going to have to take a bite out of it.

States cannot keep on raising income and property taxes on their taxpayers to fund public sector benefits when the taxpayers that funds those benefits are having their salaries and benefits reduced by corporations and are loosing their jobs. Eventually the money will run out.

Funny you say that my 2 rental houses in Az even though the value of the houses dropped over the past few years I'm still paying for the taxes pre-08 the state says because they can affore to adust the taxs because they would be to law they need to pay for medicade welware ect...

Originally Posted by Dark Geared God

Funny you say that my 2 rental houses in Az even though the value of the houses dropped over the past few years I'm still paying for the taxes pre-08 the state says because they can affore to adust the taxs because they would be to law they need to pay for medicade welware ect...

that's bullshit...property tax's do not fund welfare programs or medicare/medicaid, those programs are funded by the federal government and are part of the annual budget.

http://www.irle.berkeley.edu/researc...ts_oct2011.pdf

Originally Posted by LAM

that's bullshit...property tax's do not fund welfare programs or medicare/medicaid, those programs are funded by the federal government and are part of the annual budget.

the welfare thing i addedbut the taxes..are true we are paying the same even as the value of the house drop but i think that it dose fund thses programs