Thread: The Truth About the Economy

don't go confusing the "idealogues" out there with facts and data. the trickle-down effect from supply-side economics is going to kick in any day now, just you wait!

Robert Reich has been saying this for some time. I believe he's correct.

He wrote a book called $upercapitalism about 3-4 years ago with a follow up (not as good) called Aftershock.

I believe his take. But his solutions, as usual are.....not going to happen, IMO.

It's too late for that.

Robert Reich has been saying this for some time. I believe he's correct.

He wrote a book called $upercapitalism about 3-4 years ago with a follow up (not as good) called Aftershock.

I believe his take. But his solutions, as usual are.....not going to happen, IMO.

It's too late for that.

Originally Posted by Big Smoothy

I believe his take. But his solutions, as usual are.....not going to happen, IMO.

It's too late for that.

the nation is far to divided, to many people deeply intrenched in their ideology's. the US acted like "one nation" for a couple of weeks after 9-11.

unfortunately a nation of immigrants from all over the world living in one country will never work as one, this is the biggest weakness of the country.

the US is like 99% immigrants I think most country's in the OECD are like 10% or less.

ILO says economic crisis cut global wage growth by half
ILO says economic crisis cut global wage growth by half

The report’s main findings include:

* 50 per cent of countries have adjusted their minimum wages either as part of the regular minimum wage review process or with the aim of protecting the purchasing power of the most vulnerable workers. This is a departure from earlier crises during which minimum wage freezes were the pattern.

* For low paid workers, who are especially vulnerable to fall into poverty, there is need for a better articulation between minimum wages and social and labour market policies.

* Wages are better aligned with productivity in countries where collective bargaining covers more than 30 per cent of employees, and minimum wages reduce inequality in the bottom half of the wage distribution.

* Collective bargaining and minimum wages, along with well-designed income policies, can lift the incomes of workers in the recovery.

Originally Posted by LAM

the nation is far to divided, to many people deeply intrenched in their ideology's. the US acted like "one nation" for a couple of weeks after 9-11.

Agree. Many divisions, and mostly the bizarre 'ideology' which is more same

the US is like 99% immigrants I think most country's in the OECD are like 10% or less.

99%?

How is this so?

That would mean 99% of the population was born outside the US, out of 310 million?

How is this calculated?

On a side note, the US has enough people, IMO. Too many people, at 310+ million.

we're broke, bottom line

Originally Posted by Big Smoothy

Agree. Many divisions, and mostly the bizarre 'ideology' which is more same

99%?

How is this so?

That would mean 99% of the population was born outside the US, out of 310 million?

How is this calculated?

On a side note, the US has enough people, IMO. Too many people, at 310+ million.

in terms of the original indigenous population of northern america

both sides spend way too much money, and there is no quick fix.

There you go, you can't break it down any simpler than that!

Complete with stick figures, why is this so hard to comprehend!

Effects of Flat Tax Reforms on Economic Growth in the OECD Countries
http://bora.nhh.no/bitstream/2330/22...sen%202008.pdf

Unrestricted capitalism destroys economies but out of fear of being called a socialist people keep their mouth shut.

Originally Posted by Gissurjon

Unrestricted capitalism destroys economies but out of fear of being called a socialist people keep their mouth shut.

that's the group think mentality. people have been brainwashed into thinking there is only way and anyone that speaks out against the status quo is a commie! lol, wtf is it the 50's again!

I hope they like camping cause they will all be sleeping under a bridge somewhere in tent in there 70's and 80's.

The trickle down theory is a bullshit one. How do you become super rich? well you hold on to most of your money. Has anybody noticed how these super-rich folks always have credit cards, they're not even spending their own money, rather they use up astronomical amounts of credit that creates false wealth for the lenders through interests and lets the rich hold on to their "actual money" as long as possible. meanwhile their real money is making them more money, increasing their abiltiy to use credit which then further increases the amount of un-printed money in circulation.

Plus the super-rich buy their cars from Europe, vacation outside the U.S. and keep money off-shore, all while paying 16% in taxes in the U.S. Soooo where is it trickling down from?

economy is messed right now

interesting videos

cant wait to see where we are as a country in couple years

Originally Posted by Gissurjon

Unrestricted capitalism destroys economies but out of fear of being called a socialist people keep their mouth shut.

Where the hell is there unrestricted capitalism?

Originally Posted by LAM

in terms of the original indigenous population of northern america

so technically they were immigrants too, right? What year does the citizen lose immigrant status? 20yrs? 100? 250? 500? Does that make Israelis all immigrants too?

I'm talking about when the US first became a formal country until when they closed Eilis Island. about 35million people came over from Europe. that's more than the total population of like 70% of OECD countries right now. that's a whole lot of people with different religions, upbringing and value systems.

Originally Posted by troubador

Where the hell is there unrestricted capitalism?

wall street, the US banking system and the MNE's and TNE's. they can pretty much do what they want. a lot of the major industry's are self-regulated or regulation is voluntary.

neo-liberal economic policy is all about unregulated capitalism and the restriction of movement and wages of labor. the Internet and telecommunications allows capital to reach all corners of the globe.

Originally Posted by teddykgb29

both sides spend way too much money, and there is no quick fix.

we would have to spend so much on social welfare, ETIC, mortgage deductions, etc. if wages were more equal:

""Rising income disparities would be less troubling if increased inequality had been accompanied by broadly shared prosperity. But in fact, at roughly the same time as income growth accelerated for the highest-income ouseholds, it slowed to a sputter for low- and even middle-income Americans. The average income of households in the top 1 percent of the distribution grew by a remarkable 241 percent between 1979 and 2007 (the latest year for which the CBO data are available), after adjusting for inflation. Meanwhile, average income for households in the bottom fifth of the income distribution grew by only 11 percent (less than half a percent per year), and average income for households in the middle fifth grew by only 19 percent (less than 1 percent per year). Median earnings for male workers – the earnings of the man in the exact middle of the earnings distribution – were about the same in 2009 as in the late 1960s.2 Median earnings for women rose through the 1980s and 1990s, as a rising share of women started working full-time and as more women obtained college degrees, but in the most recent decade, women’s earnings also stagnated (even before the recession). 3 In sum, after several decades following World War II during which the incomes of low-, middle-, and high-income households all rose steadily together, living standards started rising far more quickly for those at the top of the distribution and far more slowly for all other groups."

Is the Distribution of Tax Burdens and Tax Benefits Equitable
http://finance.senate.gov/imo/media/...0Aron-Dine.pdf

Sources of Income for All Households, by Household Income Category, 1979 to 2007
http://www.cbo.gov/publications/coll..._by_source.pdf

Anybody want to comment on the points of Reich's presentation?

Originally Posted by troubador

Where the hell is there unrestricted capitalism?

In the U.S.

It is well demonstrated it the food industry. Fast food only has to contain 30% of the actual meat to claim to be of that meat.

why? well the laws got in the way so they were changed.

Are you getting it?

As long as the politicians continue to battle each other, the economy isn't going to improve. They can't seem to agree on anything.

One thing is for sure, spending has been higher than revenues for quite a few years now - so it's not a real surprise the debt levels are around the 14 trillion mark. That's the key to the problem right now. Go ahead and raise taxes, it won't make a difference if the spending isn't controlled.

Here's just ONE example of literally hundreds every year:

WASHINGTON—In an effort to reduce wasteful spending and eliminate non-vital federal services, the U.S. government announced plans this week to cut its long-standing senator program, a move it says will help save more than $300 billion each year. Established in 1789 as a means of overseeing the passage of bills into law, the once-promising senator program has reportedly failed to contribute to the governing of the nation in any significant way since 1964. Last year alone, approximately $450 billion was funneled into the legislative chamber, an amount deemed fiscally unsound considering how few citizens actually benefit in any way from its existence.

Originally Posted by Big Smoothy

Anybody want to comment on the points of Reich's presentation?

he's spot on. you know this stuff is fairly easy to understand, it's the macroeconomics that's a bitch because of globalization and trade deficits, etc.

that's why I posted that information on wages, people just don't understand the relationship that they play in the economy and how keeping them stagnant for so many has hurt the country and not helped it.

Originally Posted by LAM

he's spot on. you know this stuff is fairly easy to understand, it's the macroeconomics that's a bitch because of globalization and trade deficits, etc.

that's why I posted that information on wages, people just don't understand the relationship that they play in the economy and how keeping them stagnant for so many has hurt the country and not helped it.

Good point, LAM.

Sadly, Robert B. Reich is....spot on.

This is the end result, as I've said.

It's the result This isn't a temporary dip.