Thread: U.S. broke international law by executing Mexican national, says U.N.

Originally Posted by Gissurjon

plus, a fairly big portion of crimes go unreported in the U.S.

It's actually European countries that like to fudge the numbers.

Originally Posted by Gissurjon

My bad, just noticed the link below, which kind of under minds your argument..

If a bitch slap constitutes a violent crime there but not here then the data is not comparable.

plus, a fairly big portion of crimes go unreported in the U.S. That mixed with poor data collection and synchronization, makes things look better than they are.

what about homicides?

If a bitch slap constitutes a violent crime here but not there then the data is not comparable.

plus, a fairly big portion of crimes go unreported in Europe. That mixed with poor data collection and synchronization, makes things look better than they are.

what about homicides?



Gee this is fun. Can we play some more.

Originally Posted by Gissurjon

This clearly refers only to European countrie so how do you know how they stand vs. the U.S.?

U.S.A. IS NUMBER ONE, BRRRRAAAAAAAAH!!!!!

Originally Posted by MDR

You are still missing the point. It would have been easy for the issue of consular access to be cleared up years ago, and it wasn't done. I don't think we need to put innocent U.S. citizens at risk in foreign countries for this loser. The crime was heinous and he deserved to die, but an error was made, and it should have been corrected. Not doing so puts U.S. citizens at greater risk when arrested in a foreign country, and that sucks.

No I'm not, if a person abandons their country or knows they belong in another country but decided to live illegally another country then we should assume they gave up all rights they had in their legal nation since obviously it wasn't good enough for them. If he had been here as a tourist or something I could see his rights to counsel from his homeland, but in my eyes he gave up all rights by staying in the US.

Should we let alien criminals pick and choose which country they want to be represented by if they didn't think their legal nation of origin was good enough for them?
Mexico should be like "Fuck that dude he decided to live illegally in the US instead of legally in his home country of Mexico...thennnn he yells Viva Mexico as his last words. Fock ese' that sheet makes us look bad hOmes, total loser who didn't even grow up here screaming sheet li' dat eh...."

Originally Posted by maniclion

No I'm not, if a person abandons their country or knows they belong in another country but decided to live illegally another country then we should assume they gave up all rights they had in their legal nation since obviously it wasn't good enough for them. If he had been here as a tourist or something I could see his rights to counsel from his homeland, but in my eyes he gave up all rights by staying in the US.

Should we let alien criminals pick and choose which country they want to be represented by if they didn't think their legal nation of origin was good enough for them?
Mexico should be like "Fuck that dude he decided to live illegally in the US instead of legally in his home country of Mexico...thennnn he yells Viva Mexico as his last words. Fock ese' that sheet makes us look bad hOmes, total loser who didn't even grow up here screaming sheet li' dat eh...."

The violation of international law and the Geneva convention is clear in this case. If you don't think that it is important for the U.S. to follow the laws of the world, then you don't value the protection these laws grant U. S. citizens in other countries.

Originally Posted by MDR

The violation of international law and the Geneva convention is clear in this case. If you don't think that it is important for the U.S. to follow the laws of the world, then you don't value the protection these laws grant U. S. citizens in other countries.

Not if the American decided being a US citizen was worth giving up to go live somewhere else illegally. For people following the rules and not abandoning their homeland sure they should be able to be represented by the nation of legal citizenship...

Originally Posted by maniclion

Not if the American decided being a US citizen was worth giving up to go live somewhere else illegally. For people following the rules and not abandoning their homeland sure they should be able to be represented by the nation of legal citizenship...

Citizenship has nothing to do with this case. International law simply does not make that distinction. Unfortunately, you can't pick and choose. You either abide by the Geneva convention or U.S. citizens run a much higher risk of having their rights violated in foreign countries.

Originally Posted by MDR

The violation of international law and the Geneva convention is clear in this case. If you don't think that it is important for the U.S. to follow the laws of the world, then you don't value the protection these laws grant U. S. citizens in other countries.

Much of world law hasn't been written yet, and there really is no world governing organization to enforce it if there was. I honestly do not think Americans are protected by the law outside of the US border. generally if we go to other English speaking countries i think we should be ok, but i wouldn't trust international law to protect me in France, Germany, Italy or many other developed european countries let alone underdeveloped ones.

Originally Posted by MDR

The violation of international law and the Geneva convention is clear in this case. If you don't think that it is important for the U.S. to follow the laws of the world, then you don't value the protection these laws grant U. S. citizens in other countries.

I completely understand what you're saying and taken at face value, I agree with your point. My problem is that we seem to be the only country that abides by the Geneva Convention and any other international laws out there. It's time for the gloves to come off and start participating on a level playing field. Hell, I say the next proven Islamic terrorist we deal with should be beheaded with a rusty machetti on world wide t.v.....right after he's force fed a big old ham sammich. As far as this case is concerned, what would they have done to him if he'd committed the same crime in Mexico? Let's give 'em a taste of their own medicine.

Originally Posted by Curt James

U.S.A. IS NUMBER ONE, BRRRRAAAAAAAAH!!!!!

Did you just make this?

Originally Posted by Gissurjon

What do you know about the mentality of the rest of the world?

What is your source of information?

Life experience.

Originally Posted by DOMS

It's actually European countries that like to fudge the numbers.

if by "fudge" you mean alter, then your statement has little to do with the quote. The quote said unreported. If a crime is unreported it never enters a database and therefore will not be subject to "fudging".

synchronization has been poor between the countless numbers of bureaus and agencies in the U.S.

And i stand firm on my statement that MANY crimes go unreported in the U.S. one reason being the distrust towards law enforcement ,and authority in general, in very large areas of many cities.

Through my Criminal Law and Procedures class (and other classes) I have access to databases that often show a different number than later reported.

Originally Posted by Gissurjon

My bad, just noticed the link below, which kind of under minds your argument..

I didn't make an argument.

Originally Posted by Zaphod

Life experience.

Where did you live?

Originally Posted by troubador

I didn't make an argument.

Thought you were making a statement by posting that, please accept my apology

Originally Posted by Gissurjon

Where did you live?

I've been around. And long enough to see what's wrong with the world.

There are so many cultures that will target American tourists, just because they are American, for the things our government does.

Originally Posted by Zaphod

I've been around. And long enough to see what's wrong with the world.

There are so many cultures that will target American tourists, just because they are American, for the things our government does.

I guess my question is weather you've lived outside the U.S. Before I moved to the U.S. had traveled several times here as a tourist. I came to find out that being a tourist somewhere does not give you an accurate picture of whats really going on, if it did Mexico would not be such a popular tourist destination IMO.

The reason I say traveling is not the same as living is that when you travel you are not very exposed to the true ways of a country. You don't deal with (or at least it is limited) government policies, regulations, laws, culture, peoples true feelings for the country, religious beliefs, etc...

If you did in fact live in the rest of the world and did become very familiar with their way of thinking or mentality, well then I apologize.

IMO, most people do not hate America, they just think they are fat and lazy and consume the world's goods irresponsibly. That, of course, is not the truth.

Originally Posted by Zaphod

I've been around. And long enough to see what's wrong with the world.

There are so many cultures that will target American tourists, just because they are American, for the things our government does.

you mean like how American citizens target muslims/ muslim-Americans for what extremists do?

I'll admit I haven't lived outside the US. But when I go somewhere outside the US it's for more than a few days. I'm not a tourist. I like to see how people really live, so I'll be there for at least a month and not in the touristy places.

Actually my bad for painting the rest of the world with such a broad brush. Not everyone is like that, but the ones that are make the news and tarnish the rest. It just happens often enough to make it a real possibility.

Originally Posted by Gissurjon

you mean like how American citizens target muslims/ muslim-Americans for what extremists do?

Yup! Exactly that.

Originally Posted by Zaphod

I'll admit I haven't lived outside the US. But when I go somewhere outside the US it's for more than a few days. I'm not a tourist. I like to see how people really live, so I'll be there for at least a month and not in the touristy places.

Actually my bad for painting the rest of the world with such a broad brush. Not everyone is like that, but the ones that are make the news and tarnish the rest. It just happens often enough to make it a real possibility.

I agree with that a 100%

Originally Posted by Gissurjon

I guess my question is weather you've lived outside the U.S. Before I moved to the U.S. had traveled several times here as a tourist. I came to find out that being a tourist somewhere does not give you an accurate picture of whats really going on, if it did Mexico would not be such a popular tourist destination IMO.

The reason I say traveling is not the same as living is that when you travel you are not very exposed to the true ways of a country. You don't deal with (or at least it is limited) government policies, regulations, laws, culture, peoples true feelings for the country, religious beliefs, etc...

If you did in fact live in the rest of the world and did become very familiar with their way of thinking or mentality, well then I apologize.

IMO, most people do not hate America, they just think they are fat and lazy and consume the world's goods irresponsibly. That, of course, is not the truth.

Interesting point. I lived in Mexico on a study abroad program for three months, and feel I only got a taste of the culture. This was many years ago. These days I'm not sure I'd make the same decision due to the instability down there. Living with a host family gave me a unique peek into the customs and culture of the community where I lived. I just got accepted into a graduate program for the fall, so I am headed back to school after working for many years. Turns out, I may well get the chance to participate in a similar program in Scotland next year. Always been a place I wanted to see and experience firsthand. Living and studying at the university there is a very exciting opportunity. In any case, hard to know what is really going on somewhere else in the world without firsthand experience beyond the tourist level.

Originally Posted by MDR

Citizenship has nothing to do with this case. International law simply does not make that distinction. Unfortunately, you can't pick and choose. You either abide by the Geneva convention or U.S. citizens run a much higher risk of having their rights violated in foreign countries.

It has everything to do with it, this scumbag had lived in the US since he was 2 years old, suddenly he should have had the assistance of not only a public defender in the US but also his Birth nation should have his back too?

Honestly answer me this, what would Mexico had done for him?

Let's make it fair then, if you get caught in another country for a crime and you are there illegally your nation of legal citizenship is the only line of defense in your trial, no public defender or representation from the host nation.....

Have you ever seen the show Locked Up Abroad?