Thread: Entitlement???

Originally Posted by malfeasance

And that is up from 16.6% the year before. For the rest of us, the average effective tax rate fell from 12.8% to 12.4%, so your point is what?

they should be paying more IMO.

I brought this up the other month but I guarantee it will only apply to residential homes and not to business properties....

Analysis: Mortgage tax break eyed to help cut debt
Analysis: Mortgage tax break eyed to help cut debt - Yahoo! Finance

instead of bringing up wages the GOP is going to fight to make EVERYONE poor who is not already rich. there will be no opportunities in the future to "come up" they are going to make sure of this.

the same amount is spent on subsidizing big business but that is not on the chopping block.

Originally Posted by Prince

they should be paying more IMO.

How much is enough, Prince? What is the limit to our greed for other people's money?

Originally Posted by malfeasance

How much is enough, Prince? What is the limit to our greed for other people's money?

they have reduced the opportunities for others to make money in the future so they should pay more now.

why is one persons right more important than another?

the exploitation of the USD as the world's primary reserve currency is going to end soon and only those at the top benefited from it, those at the bottom are the ones that are going to feel the pain.

Originally Posted by malfeasance

How much is enough, Prince? What is the limit to our greed for other people's money?

You honestly believe in trickle down economics?

Time for a revolution... U start first

Originally Posted by LAM

when company's go from being held by the public to private less emphasis is place on high employment and more on profits. it has accounted for a 20-50% decrease in the national income that goes to labor in advanced OECD countries.

Do you honestly think that the purpose of a corporation is to create jobs? It is not. The purpose of a large corporation, just like a small business is to generate a profit (if it does business legitimately and honestly) for it's owners and shareholders. If it can do this successfully, then job creation is a bi-product of a business being well run. Without the evil profit, businesses don't expand and continue to create jobs. States and municipalities all over the country are staring at future bankruptcy now because so many public agencies have been treated as jobs programs.

Originally Posted by GearsMcGilf

Do you honestly think that the purpose of a corporation is to create jobs? It is not. The purpose of a large corporation, just like a small business is to generate a profit (if it does business legitimately and honestly) for it's owners and shareholders. If it can do this successfully, then job creation is a bi-product of a business being well run. Without the evil profit, businesses don't expand and continue to create jobs. States and municipalities all over the country are staring at future bankruptcy now because so many public agencies have been treated as jobs programs.

That's what they (the business leaders and shareholders) want you to believe because it benefits them and only them.

Originally Posted by GearsMcGilf

Without the evil profit, businesses don't expand and continue to create jobs. States and municipalities all over the country are staring at future bankruptcy now because so many public agencies have been treated as jobs programs.

I didn't say anything about profit being evil, you are labeling the words nor did I say what the purpose of a corporation is I am simply stating what all the data shows. the accumulation of wealth is is not a bad thing but when so much of that wealth is concentrated and HOW that wealth was acquired eventually will have negative effects on others.

* considering you have to go to Communist China to find employment it is fascinating to see you still defend the current US model. given what has transpired over the past decades where do you see your children working in a reality based world in 25 years?

privatization isn't a bad thing but when to many industries have been privatized and when profits are not shared even remotely between the remaining workers it causes systemic problems in a place with constant inflation and the ever increasing costs of goods and services by those same places that desire to increasing profits annually. privatization reduces employment and the GDP, profits and accumulated wealth are no longer part of the active economy.

tax receipts at the federal level have decreased for 2 reasons in the US, the overall decline in GDP since 1980 and the reduction of taxes on corporations and capital. at the state level from declining wages combined with high and underemployment and declining property taxes. it is the same problem effecting all the OECD countries except the ones with higher levels of social protection, taxes and public owned businesses. there are literally hundreds of reports floating around the net on these topics along with all the economic data from all OECD countries on the OECD website.

the US is named specifically time and time again in the ILO Global Wage Reports as we have the lowest rate of unionization out of all OECD countries and the highest percentage of low paid workers at 25% of the labor force. It also states how low wages have helped cause economic burst cycles and also how they slow the recovery from them.

Occupational Employment and Wages, May 2010
Retail Salespersons

Minimum wages and collective bargaining Towards policy coherence
http://www.ilo.org/wcmsp5/groups/pub...cms_100786.pdf

Summary Part III on Page 79
Global Wage Report 2011/11
http://www.ilo.org/wcmsp5/groups/pub...cms_145265.pdf

Federal Reserve Board of St Louis
Metropolitan vs. Non-Metropolitan Trends in Earnings Inequality and Education Returns in the 8th District: 1970-2000
http://research.stlouisfed.org/berg/wheeler.pdf

i decided to become a liberal today....so i quit my job and signed up for every welfare program i could....i'm also going to max out my credit cards and have no intention of ever paying them back....and if it's not enough i'm blaming you and i'm going to demand that all of you who earn your money pay more so i can have the same quality of life that you workers have

Originally Posted by Zaphod

That's what they (the business leaders and shareholders) want you to believe because it benefits them and only them.

Only nonprofit charities exist for purely philanthropic purposes, not public nor private businesses.

I'm not defending the policies of any administration over the last 30 years. I think some of the deregulation of the financial services industries has shot us in the foot (i.e. Glass Stegall 1997, etc). I also think foreign competition and globalization is just as much of a culprit as any of the policies of past administrations.

There is a myriad of problems that have caused stagnant wages and loss of manufacturing in the US. It's not a problem that can realistically be attached to one of the parties. For instance, how do we compete in manufacturing when a business can have a product manufactured 6,000m away in china and shipped to the US for 50-60% of what it would cost, just for the materials, to have it manufactured in the US? It's not possible.

Originally Posted by GearsMcGilf

There is a myriad of problems that have caused stagnant wages and loss of manufacturing in the US. It's not a problem that can realistically be attached to one of the parties. For instance, how do we compete in manufacturing when a business can have a product manufactured 6,000m away in china and shipped to the US for 50-60% of what it would cost, just for the materials, to have it manufactured in the US? It's not possible.

actually in terms of wages there isn't a myriad of problems and if you read the reports they have been identified in the OECD countries . you are simply trying to discredit the data because it conflicts with your ideology.

as to your example of manufacturing in China isn't that what import/export quotas are for and charging tarrifs on imports? those policies are the exact opposite of free market principles that is what other countries do to discourage high import rates but the US went the opposite way because of the easy money enabled by the FRB with low rates and the exploitation of the dollar hedge-money.

the majority of defense contractors have relocated production across the border in Mexico, factory workers their make $5 USD/day. those products are imported back into the US tariff free and sold for premium prices at substantial profits due to the reduction of payroll and benefits, etc. the same with auto manufactures and others.

but back to wages...

the decline in wages started at the exact same time that the US adopted neo-liberal economic policies in the late 1970's. in the 16 years prior to this the income gap had been decreasing between the highest and lowest paid (owner to worker) in the public sector according to the income data at the census. during this same period of time is when the Trilateral Commission was formed and the OECD Guidelines for Multinational Corporations were released and if you read these documents you would see how they caused the other to occur. all of these things occurred BEFORE globalization and before NAFTA and to all of the OECD countries. at that time the ONLY common elements between them was adopting neo-liberalism and the OECD Guidelines.

the unions were busted in the early 80's and then years later the manufacturing jobs left and have continued to leave since. one did not cause the other but one occurred before the other for a reason and that was to reduce the power of labor to fight for higher wages, labor was left at the mercy of the CPI. the ILO reports even state that the CPI is ineffective and has been for quite some time it also states that the minimum wage should be based more in align with the median income to reduce poverty levels, reliance transfer from the gov to subsidize incomes and to reduce the effects that inflation has on the lowest wage earners.

Privatization, Entry Regulation and the Decline of Labor’s Share of GDP: A Cross-Country Analysis of the Network Industries
http://eprints.lse.ac.uk/4552/1/Priv...Industries.pdf

Sadly we can keep complaining about thse problems but are they ever truly going to get fixed? I think not and if so it wont be anytime soon.

Originally Posted by irish_2003

i decided to become a liberal today....so i quit my job and signed up for every welfare program i could....i'm also going to max out my credit cards and have no intention of ever paying them back....and if it's not enough i'm blaming you and i'm going to demand that all of you who earn your money pay more so i can have the same quality of life that you workers have

That doesn't make you a liberal, that makes you an American.

I want some of that free money mate

Originally Posted by irish_2003

i decided to become a liberal today....so i quit my job and signed up for every welfare program i could....i'm also going to max out my credit cards and have no intention of ever paying them back....and if it's not enough i'm blaming you and i'm going to demand that all of you who earn your money pay more so i can have the same quality of life that you workers have

my god you are stupid...

conservatives created the welfare state with their low wage neo-liberal economic model in the late 70's. half the country is making 1980's wages because Reagan killed the unions THEN they shipped the jobs away to leave Americans fighting over the scraps and wage increases at the mercy of the outdated CPI.

Originally Posted by LAM

they have reduced the opportunities for others to make money in the future

I would like to see you explain this. #1 on the list is Bill Gates. He must really be keeping you down, since he is at the top of the list. Please list three things he has done to reduce your opportunities "to make money," and explain how you have been harmed by his three actions.

Then explain exactly how increasing his taxes helps you.

Originally Posted by irish_2003

i decided to become a liberal today....so i quit my job and signed up for every welfare program i could....

Originally Posted by Zaphod

You honestly believe in trickle down economics?

This has what to do with my question?

Originally Posted by malfeasance

This has what to do with my question?

Since those at the top are taking more and more from everybody else, where are the supposed benefits from that? Corporations are making money hand over fist and the rich are getting a bigger and bigger piece of the pie where are all the jobs and benefits the rest of us are supposed to be getting? Why aren't our wages going up? Why is the cost of living increasing so fast?

So it has everything to do with your question.

Originally Posted by malfeasance

I would like to see you explain this. #1 on the list is Bill Gates. He must really be keeping you down, since he is at the top of the list. Please list three things he has done to reduce your opportunities "to make money," and explain how you have been harmed by his three actions.

Then explain exactly how increasing his taxes helps you.

first I never named an individual you did...

everyone likes to use the 1 in a million people that come up with a new product and get rich but his happens how often and out of how many people? this is what your hoping for the 1 in 300 million long shot you call that opportunity?

Bill Gates came out with an OS when computers were just coming into the market place as the IC chip was progressing rapidly n the 70's. back then everything was command line, Windows came out which was nothing but a GUI front end to DOS. windows came out in '83 and beside apple no other OS has made it big in the market.

20 years ago a person could get 2 jobs to make enough to "come up". now workers are happy with the one POS jobs that they have. getting 2 jobs is no longer a reality in the US, it's in the past. based on that opportunity in the future will be less than it is now. a country with a declining GDP for the past 30 years is not progressing it is regressing. nothing gets better with a steadily declining GDP.