Thread: A debt deal!

contracting gov stimulus with high unemployment will surely make things better as economic history surely shows...lol tea party suckers! be careful for that you wish for...

917 billion? What a joke. That's less than 25% of what was needed to avoid a downgrade in our credit status.

That's over 10 years as well, so that's just 91.7 billion a year. Don't get me wrong, that's a lot of money, but in comparison to the ~4.6 trillion dollar budget , that's only a reduction of about 2%.

$2.2 Trillion over 10 years. It's a joke.

That's nothing.

Where are the Medicare A-B-C-D cuts? At least?

wow.. they still going full retard.

Originally Posted by Big Smoothy

$2.2 Trillion over 10 years. It's a joke.

That's nothing.

Where are the Medicare A-B-C-D cuts? At least?

they will be on the block the next round when that debt ceiling is reached, they have to be.

GDP will continue to shrink and with no new revenue the debt problem will never get any better.

unfortunately people have been lead to believe that deficit reduction or balancing the budget will help but it definitely will not. neither increase the GDP which is what's needed to keep consumption/the economy going.

fiscal contraction of gov spending only increases the GDP when::

* nations matched the fiscal contraction with large exchange-rate deprecations and boosted exports - there is no one to increase our exports to, all the OECD countries have run out of monies to fuel consumption by their own respective working class due to the '07 crisis to much wealth was lost

* interest rates were very high and deficit reductions had room to reduce them - the FRB is lending at 0% they can go no lower

* countries were already growing strongly in the period before the fiscal contraction took effect - this is obviously not the case in our reality in the US

LAM,

are we fucked?

LAM is right. Unless we hike up taxes and spending dramatically, we will never get back to where we were in the Carter years, nor will we ever have a prayer of catching up with Greece. Thank God we now have a president who is putting us back on the right track.

Originally Posted by minimal

LAM,

are we fucked?

super big time....but the pain will be slow for years as the GDP continues to shrink along with the share of the national income that goes to labor. the only thing that can really speed up the process would be a derivative driven market crash on wallstreet.

but the tea baggers and conservatives pushing this do not realize what they are doing my making this choice and going down this road of "limited" government. the desire to roll back the clock to the pre-big deal days to end these social protections/entitlements are not the end. sure those cuts will eventually send many of the elderly into poverty along with a a majority of blacks and hispanics, it doesn't stop there. there are people on the far, far, far right that make the conservative likes of Irving Kristol and Barry Goldwater tremble and piss in their pants. and they also despise poor whites but only slightly less than minorities and by poor I mean anyone with a net worth of less than an easy 300-400m.

words are subjective and have different meanings depending on the reality of the people using them. and those people have nothing at all in common with the conservatives and tea baggers that are being used to do their dirty work to shrink the gov at both levels.

just picture the anti-utopia and you are just about there...

Originally Posted by GearsMcGilf

LAM is right. Unless we hike up taxes and spending dramatically, we will never get back to where we were in the Carter years, nor will we ever have a prayer of catching up with Greece. Thank God we now have a president who is putting us back on the right track.

your still talking about taxes but know nothing at all about the topic just what has been spoon feed to you. because Reagan said taxes were too high in the 80's didn't make it true then and it doesn't make it true now. they have been constantly reduced to there lowest levels in 50 years or so on both capital and corps. US has the lowest % of GDP going to taxes out of all OECD countries. yet still no supply side where is it? still no jobs where are they? 30 years of neo-liberalism and it still doesn't exist because it is pure fantasy. there is no hard science behind it just the goal of getting taxes as low as possible.


this coming from the guy that has to go find work in communist china because the opportunities in the US are so great thanks to supply-side economics. your children will thank you when they are crossing the border to get into Mexico to work in a factory in 40 years.

Does anyone believe in this shear lunacy. What they are basically saying is, "Sure, we have a ton of debt, we will make sure that instead of doubling it over the next ten years, we will only increase it by 70%". That's fucking stupid, who would ever lend money to someone like that?

Originally Posted by LAM

your still talking about taxes but know nothing at all about the topic just what has been spoon feed to you. because Reagan said taxes were too high in the 80's didn't make it true then and it doesn't make it true now. they have been constantly reduced to there lowest levels in 50 years or so on both capital and corps. US has the lowest % of GDP going to taxes out of all OECD countries. yet still no supply side where is it? still no jobs where are they? 30 years of neo-liberalism and it still doesn't exist because it is pure fantasy. there is no hard science behind it just the goal of getting taxes as low as possible.


this coming from the guy that has to go find work in communist china because the opportunities in the US are so great thanks to supply-side economics. your children will thank you when they are crossing the border to get into Mexico to work in a factory in 40 years.

What do you think are some practical and measurable solutions could be for US besides spending cuts and increasing the tax on the rich/corps?

This country is deff in trouble. I feel bad for the next administration to try and come fix it

I think sometime in the future people will refuse to run for election to become a president of this country.

Originally Posted by minimal

What do you think are some practical and measurable solutions could be for US besides spending cuts and increasing the tax on the rich/corps?

all of the practical methods are going to take time and luck.

basically we need to do the exact opposite of what is being done in the US education system today. we need to do things which are are going to spur ingenuity and creativity vs dumbing down the population. we need to create an optimum learning environment for ideas that will enable us to supply the world markets with things not yet invented.

unfortunately this is the exact opposite of the current neo-liberal strategy of destroying the public education system in the US.

And look who is getting screwed as a result of this "deal." Students.

The corrupt government bails out the banksters, and hands out money to the Pentagon and the Military Industrial Complex, the pharmaceutical companies, and then fucks the students.

Students to feel pinch in debt deal

By Jennifer Liberto [at]CNNMoney
August 1, 2011: 6:08 PM ET


WASHINGTON (CNNMoney) -- Some students will have to start paying off their loans while they're in school under a last-minute debt ceiling deal to keep the country out of default and reduce deficits by at least $2.1 trillion over a decade.
As part of the savings to trim the deficits, Congress would scrap a special kind of federal loan for graduate students. So-called subsidized student loans don't charge students any interest on the principal of student loans until six months after students graduated.

Congress would also nix a special credit for all students who make 12 months of on-time loan payments.

The changes would take place July 1, 2012.


Link: Debt ceiling deal to hit grad students hard - Aug. 1, 2011

Originally Posted by GearsMcGilf

White House, congressional leaders reach debt deal - CNN.com

I may cut my spending by a few hundred over the next ten years also!

That's a great equivalent right there. lol

Originally Posted by LAM

all of the practical methods are going to take time and luck.

basically we need to do the exact opposite of what is being done in the US education system today. we need to do things which are are going to spur ingenuity and creativity vs dumbing down the population. we need to create an optimum learning environment for ideas that will enable us to supply the world markets with things not yet invented.

unfortunately this is the exact opposite of the current neo-liberal strategy of destroying the public education system in the US.

Yes instead of rewarding the shamwow makers or that guy who invented the toy carwash for kids to ride their bikes thru and get rusty chains, or the backwards robe inventors we should give money to the kids who come up with super-efficient PV cells or companies that innovate things like solar thermal air conditioning with absorption chillers, portable xray machines

Originally Posted by Big Smoothy

And look who is getting screwed as a result of this "deal." Students.

The corrupt government bails out the banksters, and hands out money to the Pentagon and the Military Industrial Complex, the pharmaceutical companies, and then fucks the students.

Students to feel pinch in debt deal

By Jennifer Liberto [at]CNNMoney
August 1, 2011: 6:08 PM ET


WASHINGTON (CNNMoney) -- Some students will have to start paying off their loans while they're in school under a last-minute debt ceiling deal to keep the country out of default and reduce deficits by at least $2.1 trillion over a decade.
As part of the savings to trim the deficits, Congress would scrap a special kind of federal loan for graduate students. So-called subsidized student loans don't charge students any interest on the principal of student loans until six months after students graduated.

Congress would also nix a special credit for all students who make 12 months of on-time loan payments.

The changes would take place July 1, 2012.


Link: Debt ceiling deal to hit grad students hard - Aug. 1, 2011

I think this is reprehensible, given the current job market. Making it tougher for students to afford graduate school at a time when they need that education more than ever to be marketable in our economy is not an equitable solution. Students are often living on very little as it is, and loans are harder to get and more expensive than ever. How about taxing the people who can afford to pay rather than screwing students just looking to improve their lot in life?
Very ugly.

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

Does anyone believe in this shear lunacy. What they are basically saying is, "Sure, we have a ton of debt, we will make sure that instead of doubling it over the next ten years, we will only increase it by 70%". That's fucking stupid, who would ever lend money to someone like that?

Putin says America is a "parasite" to the global economy. I agree........The US has to start to live WITHIN IT'S MEANS. I would not lend the US a penny until they do.

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

Does anyone believe in this shear lunacy. What they are basically saying is, "Sure, we have a ton of debt, we will make sure that instead of doubling it over the next ten years, we will only increase it by 70%". That's fucking stupid, who would ever lend money to someone like that?

The Chinese. Then they'll demand land as payment.

Originally Posted by Big Smoothy

And look who is getting screwed as a result of this "deal." Students.

The corrupt government bails out the banksters, and hands out money to the Pentagon and the Military Industrial Complex, the pharmaceutical companies, and then fucks the students.

Students to feel pinch in debt deal

By Jennifer Liberto [at]CNNMoney
August 1, 2011: 6:08 PM ET


WASHINGTON (CNNMoney) -- Some students will have to start paying off their loans while they're in school under a last-minute debt ceiling deal to keep the country out of default and reduce deficits by at least $2.1 trillion over a decade.
As part of the savings to trim the deficits, Congress would scrap a special kind of federal loan for graduate students. So-called subsidized student loans don't charge students any interest on the principal of student loans until six months after students graduated.

Congress would also nix a special credit for all students who make 12 months of on-time loan payments.

The changes would take place July 1, 2012.


Link: Debt ceiling deal to hit grad students hard - Aug. 1, 2011

Because there is more priority on making a buck than there is on getting people educated.

Kick all the bums out of Congress and the White House.

Originally Posted by GearsMcGilf

LAM is right. Unless we hike up taxes and spending dramatically, we will never get back to where we were in the Carter years, nor will we ever have a prayer of catching up with Greece. Thank God we now have a president who is putting us back on the right track.

Gears likes to talk a lot of shit about things he doesn't even know about.

for those who do not know SUPPLY-SIDE ECONOMICS is totally bullshit. it is built around the ideology that taxes prevent "creativity" and that as long as taxes exist people will not create things and come up with new ideas. the fact that there will be no revenue for government that is a totally different issue.

supply side economics is not backed by any true economists except by those on the far right. there are no models, no mathematics, no research, nothing...the basic premise is that you do away with taxes and "magically" people start creating things and everyone has a job and unemployment is ended....yes people this is supply side economics in it's entirety and this is what Gears believes in..

anyone else think this is going to work?

60% tax on anyone who makes over a mil a year.

Originally Posted by myCATpowerlifts

60% tax on anyone who makes over a mil a year.

what about when the top 400 households in the US have more combined income than the bottom 60% of the population combined..

Originally Posted by LAM

what about when the top 400 households in the US have more combined income than the bottom 60% of the population combined..

Sounds like Socialism is the way to go eh?
Take 90% of that moolah and send it to every door step in america.

Originally Posted by myCATpowerlifts

Sounds like Socialism is the way to go eh?
Take 90% of that moolah and send it to every door step in america.

Here's what socialism is: a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.


It IS NOT the redistribution of wealth. Calling it the redistribution of wealth is a political definition used by politicians to get you all fired up by "threatening" your money. It's a scare tactic. That's how most politicians work. They want to scare you into following their "beliefs" which is only a way to their getting to be in power.

I'm sorry if that doesn't jibe with any previous conceptions anyone may have.