Thread: Architects and engineers challenge official story of WTC Building 7 collapse

Originally Posted by Prince

"Fires have never before caused the collapse of any skyscraper, even though there are numerous examples of much hotter, larger and longer lasting fires in these buildings," he said. "And in the case of Building 7, the fire that NIST (National Institute of Standards and Technology) said started the collapse had actually burned out over an hour before.

"It could not have caused the collapse as [the government] said," he added, noting that the very "modern" Building 7 was not struck by an aircraft and collapsed "mostly into its own footprint... in just under seven seconds."

Yes, Building 7 is one of the many, many, oddities of 9/11.

Black boxes of the airplanes were never found - but they have found black boxes at the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean after high impact crashes.

Mohammed Atta's passport - in readable condition, was found near the rubble of the WTC towers. That must be pretty strong paper. Paper stronger than black boxes made by engineers that go into planes.

9/11 conspiracies--food for retards.

Originally Posted by DOMS

9/11 conspiracies--food for retards.

just playing devils advocate.

as with any conspiracy theory's or lies there is always some truth intermingled. until 9-11 the patriot act couldn't make it out of committee, then it was passed rather quickly.

Originally Posted by LAM

just playing devils advocate.

as with any conspiracy theory's or lies there is always some truth intermingled. until 9-11 the patriot act couldn't make it out of committee, then it was passed rather quickly.

There's a thread where I gave it real consideration. I've read and watched videos about it. The reality of it can be explained rather simply. However, most of the point on the the conspiracy side involve ignoring or assuming things.

There's a psychological reason why some people find the need to believe in conspiracies. Logic isn't one of them.

Originally Posted by Prince

The bottom line is this: If the building was destroyed purposely - and the evidence is very strong that it was - the question now is, why? And if so, what was the point in covering it up?

America lost nearly 3,000 sons, daughters, mothers and fathers on that fateful day. How does a cover-up do them justice?

I'd rather know who than why or what.

Terrorists had access to the building during its original construction or the U.S. government has all its high profile structures wired to go?

(reaches for tinfoil hat)

It seems likely that it was a controlled implosion or whatever they call it. What building simply collapses like that naturally? If you dump a wheelbarrow full of bricks off a cliff, those bricks don't fall into a neat pile at the bottom of the cliff face.

Originally Posted by Big Smoothy

Mohammed Atta's passport - in readable condition, was found near the rubble of the WTC towers.

You mean Atta was in the driver's seat of this...

and his passport survived? Maybe that dark object mentioned in the video's title above was Mohammed Atta's passport.

Originally Posted by DOMS

9/11 conspiracies--food for retards.

nom nom nom

Originally Posted by DOMS

There's a psychological reason why some people find the need to believe in conspiracies. Logic isn't one of them.

ultimately when it comes to conspiracy's there has to be a purpose, a long term goal as these acts (terrorist or other violent acts such as assassination, etc.) would only be pieces to the puzzle.

one thing is for sure, one way or another it always comes down to money and/or power in the long run.

Originally Posted by DOMS

9/11 conspiracies--food for retards.

Conspiracy is defined as 2 or more people planning to do something/carry out an act.

So, yes, 911 was a conspiracy among the hijackers (if you believe it).

But L.I.H.O.P is not really a conspiracy, but just a strategy by the US government (and Israel) - if you believe that.

The Jersalem Post has already printed several years ago that the Mossad knew of 9/11 before it happened. Interestingly, the US mainstream media, never followed it up. (I think we know why.)

And the massive shorting of American airline stock days befreo 9/11. Maybe the conspirator (terrorists) did it, maybe it was someone else. The shorts came from Germany.

Lots of things to discuss.

And I assume, you've seen the updated version of Loose Change.

Originally Posted by Curt James

Oh, good God. You can tell from the type of blur that the object is way into the foreground and not at the same distance as the towers.

As one Youtube commenter posited, it's probably a bird.

Originally Posted by LAM

ultimately when it comes to conspiracy's there has to be a purpose, a long term goal as these acts (terrorist or other violent acts such as assassination, etc.) would only be pieces to the puzzle.

one thing is for sure, one way or another it always comes down to money and/or power in the long run.

It's what it looks like: some Arabs successfully pulled off, from a logistical stand point, an amazing attack that killed about 3000 people using airplanes.

Originally Posted by Big Smoothy

The Jersalem Post has already printed several years ago that the Mossad knew of 9/11 before it happened. Interestingly, the US mainstream media, never followed it up. (I think we know why.)

And the US government had an internally generated warning, too. The did nothing with that. It was one of many, many such warnings. It's easy to pick out in hindsight, but not so easy before the fact.

Originally Posted by Big Smoothy

And I assume, you've seen the updated version of Loose Change.

I watched the original and I watch the ass raping it got from other videos and printed articles. I'm sure this updated version gyrates into even great self-delusion to "prove" and conspiracy.

Originally Posted by DOMS

Oh, good God. You can tell from the type of blur that the object is way into the foreground and not at the same distance as the towers.

As one Youtube commenter posited, it's probably a bird.

I don't believe they were talking about the big blur in the foreground...



but the smaller flaming blur...



that zoomed away from the plane.

Originally Posted by Curt James

I don't believe they were talking about the big blur in the foreground, but the smaller flaming blur that zoomed away from the plane.

Do you mean the obvious piece of debris?

Originally Posted by DOMS

It's what it looks like: some Arabs successfully pulled off, from a logistical stand point, an amazing attack that killed about 3000 people using airplanes.

it was much more than just an attack by Arabs...

the USD has been under attack for many years, this was simply another method. you don't hear about this stuff unless you are out of the country and away from US controlled media outlets.

everyone (foreign nations) knows that the power of the US has always been behind the USD and it's place as the worlds #1 reserve currency. it's why the WTC was picked not because of the people but to hopefully disrupt the US economy significantly and to hopefully speed up the end of the dollar hedge-money.

It's what the Afghans tried to the USSR during their decade long war but were unsuccessful until the USA came to the aid of Saddam and the Mujahideen, which was basically the pre-Taliban.

Originally Posted by DOMS

Do you mean the obvious piece of debris?

Buzz kill.

A flaming alien super spy from Mars sounds so much cooler.

nom nom nom

Originally Posted by DOMS

It's what it looks like: some Arabs successfully pulled off, from a logistical stand point, an amazing attack that killed about 3000 people using airplanes.

It's good to know that one of this website's members, DOMS, is way more brilliant than numerous architects, structural engineers, and metallurgical engineers. I'm pretty honored to even be responding to your post, with your vast, all-knowing intellect. Keep us the great work!

Originally Posted by maxpro2

It's good to know that one of this website's members, DOMS, is way more brilliant than numerous architects, structural engineers, and metallurgical engineers. I'm pretty honored to even be responding to your post, with your vast, all-knowing intellect. Keep us the great work!

You mean all the architects, structural engineers, and metallurgical engineers that said that the event play out the way that it looks?

You must have some special inside knowledge that no one else has. You must also understand the inner workings of the world in ways that no one else does.

On an unrelated note, you forget to take your meds.

Originally Posted by DOMS

9/11 conspiracies--food for retards.

That's a bit harsh considering all the coincidences and evidence that has been pointed out over the years.
What compelling evidence do you have that proves it was not an inside job or at the very least was allowed to happen ?

There's no shortage of crackpot conspiracy theorists however I don't let them ruin it for the genuine investigators. I'm still waiting for the US to find the elusive WMD in Iraq. That's stands for "weapons of mass destruction" for all the people who have forgotten about them.

To put faith in your government is more retarded than to question their motives with an element of skepticism.

Originally Posted by BillHicksFan

That's a bit harsh considering all the coincidences that have been pointed out over the years.
What compelling evidence to you have that proves it was not an inside job or was allowed to happen at the very least? There's no shortage of crackpot conspiracy theorists however I don't let them ruin it for the genuine investigators.

To put faith in your government is more retarded than to question their motives.

Bill, how dare you question DOMS. He knows exactly what went down that day. Ignore this credible group of scientists who don't know what happened but just want answers because things don't seem to add up scientifically. They are clearly retards because DOMS is omniscient.

But, even though we should all worship DOMS' godlike ability, I do need to make one distinction. What these engineers are advocating is not a conspiracy theory. A conspiracy theory purports to know the answers. For example, "Building 7 was blown up by the Bush administration." In great contrast, these engineers do not know what happened. They are just pointing out why things do not add up scientifically and are seeking answers. And that is what makes them 10x more credible than your typical moronic conspiracy theorist.

The only retard is one who purports to know everything and can easily dismiss these engineers as retards. There is absolutely nothing wrong with staying skeptical. Skepticism leads to understanding. Skepticism should be encouraged, not suppressed.

But, God Bless you DOMS, I guess you're way too smart for all of us.

Originally Posted by BillHicksFan

That's a bit harsh considering all the coincidences and evidence that has been pointed out over the years.
What compelling evidence do you have that proves it was not an inside job or at the very least was allowed to happen ?

What do you have in the way of actual proof that it was an inside job?

As I said before, everything regarding the attack can be explained with everything that can been seen. There are plenty of engineers and scientists that explained the technical side of the crashes.

Originally Posted by BillHicksFan

To put faith in your government is more retarded than to question their motives with an element of skepticism.

No, putting faith the government is less retarded than putting faith in crackpot conspiracy nuts.

A lot of the "facts" on the pro-conspiracy side start with "There's no way...", "It makes no sense..." or some other baseless supposition.

Creating conspiracies is a need that some minds must feel in order to fulfil a psychological need of comfort. The don't want to believe that something happened, so they create ways to fit it into their world view. Elvis isn't dead. Princess Diana was killed on purpose. AIDS is man made. The moon landing didn't happen.

There are legitimate conspiracies, but all too often, it's a refuge for the weak-minded.

Originally Posted by maxpro2

Bill, how dare you question DOMS. He knows exactly what went down that day. Ignore this credible group of scientists who don't know what happened but just want answers because things don't seem to add up scientifically. They are clearly retards because DOMS is omniscient.

But, even though we should all worship DOMS' godlike ability, I do need to make one distinction. What these engineers are advocating is not a conspiracy theory. A conspiracy theory purports to know the answers. For example, "Building 7 was blown up by the Bush administration." In great contrast, these engineers do not know what happened. They are just pointing out why things do not add up scientifically and are seeking answers. And that is what makes them 10x more credible than your typical moronic conspiracy theorist.

The only retard is one who purports to know everything and can easily dismiss these engineers as retards. There is absolutely nothing wrong with staying skeptical. Skepticism leads to understanding. Skepticism should be encouraged, not suppressed.

But, God Bless you DOMS, I guess you're way too smart for all of us.

Hush. The adults are talking.

Originally Posted by DOMS

Hush. The adults are talking.

It's those goddam candy-eating Jews behind this 9/11 . . Big Smoothy is laughing behind our backs!

Larry Silverstien already admitted in an interview that building 7 was brought down intentionally and the BBC broadcasted on 9/11 that building 7 collapsed before it actually fell. Call it what you want but there was more than just a few towel heads behind the events that occurred that day.

Originally Posted by bobbyboy

Larry Silverstien already admitted in an interview that building 7 was brought down intentionally and the BBC broadcasted on 9/11 that building 7 collapsed before it actually fell. Call it what you want but there was more than just a few towel heads behind the events that occurred that day.

Source.

Larry is a real estate developer whose company owned the the 7 World Trade buildings.

Silverstein stated in a September 2002 PBS documentary, 'America Rebuilds', "I remember getting a call from the fire department commander, telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, 'We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it.' And they made that decision to pull and then we watched the building collapse."[18] Conspiracy theorists claim this saying meant actively demolishing the building using explosives presumably stored in advance in the building. Initially, however, this was understood as a call to simply stop the fire fighting efforts and watch the building collapse due to the fires with no people in the building at the time[19].

Don't forget to eat your vitamin-fortified bowl of Crazy-Ohs.

Originally Posted by DOMS

What do you have in the way of actual proof that it was an inside job?

You've attempted to answer my question with another question therefore you haven't answered anything nor have you put any element of doubt in my mind that didn't previously exist.

I don't have proof of anything, just a lot of questions in regards to an overwhelming list of coincidences that are being blatantly ignored by your government.
The public want an independant investigation however even if this was to occur it would be a waste of time and money as the final conclusion would be a pre-determined one, in the government's favour of course.

Before 9/11 happened the Bush election was obviously rigged to the point in made the U.S. look like a circus to the rest of the world.

9/11 occured, the US created a super villan (who denied having anything to do with the attacks for the first time in the history of terrorism) to gain public support for a war that was waged on false pretenses, that defied the U.N. and after ten years of blowing the shit out of innocent people for the sake of oil they eventually find the most wanted man in the world and dispose of him in the sea out of respect for their enemy.


No evidence for Bin Laden being involved in the 9/11 attack
No evidence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq
No evidence of Bin Laden's dead body-- Did they even catch him or did they give him a respectful funeral due to the fact that if it was a disrespectful funeral the true enemy could have been exposed as being.... nobody, which would have been a real bummer for your government.

I'm not even going into details regarding what took place on 9/11 and the apparent investigation. Id be here all day listing the things that don't add up.

Originally Posted by DOMS

As I said before, everything regarding the attack can be explained with everything that can been seen. There are plenty of engineers and scientists that explained the technical side of the crashes.

Same goes for arguments on both sides therefore your statement proves nothing. There are many experts that are not pointing the finger at anybody but merely pointing out the factual evidence that suggests that things do not reflect the story that we've been led to believe.

Originally Posted by DOMS

No, putting faith the government is less retarded than putting faith in crackpot conspiracy nuts.

I agree with you on this one and I clearly stated it in my first comment.

Originally Posted by DOMS

A lot of the "facts" on the pro-conspiracy side start with "There's no way...", "It makes no sense..." or some other baseless supposition.

That's because there is no way that this could have happened and the goverment's version of the truth makes no sense.

Originally Posted by DOMS

Creating conspiracies is a need that some minds must feel in order to fulfil a psychological need of comfort. The don't want to believe that something happened, so they create ways to fit it into their world view. Elvis isn't dead. Princess Diana was killed on purpose. AIDS is man made. The moon landing didn't happen.

Your theory makes no sense in relation to the majority of intelligent people who can see flaws in the official version of the truth.
Asking questions does not make you a conspiracy theorist just a a lawyer is not a conspiracy theorist for questioning an innocent victim. Just as it is the lawyer's role to do his job, it is our role to question authority when we can smell bullshit. Its our role as civilians to do our best to keep our leaders in check because if they could own our souls they would do so in a heartbeat.

Originally Posted by DOMS

There are legitimate conspiracies, but all too often, it's a refuge for the weak-minded.

If the U.S. wanted a conspiracy I couldn't imagine a better way of going about it.

Originally Posted by BillHicksFan

You've attempted to answer my question with another question therefore you haven't answered anything nor have you put any element of doubt in my mind that didn't previously exist.

I'm also not going to put any element of doubt into your mind about Elvis being alive.

You have access to all the same videos, books, and articles that I've read. I'm not going to distillate all that I've learned about the subject. I could do so, but...

Originally Posted by BillHicksFan

Before 9/11 happened the Bush election was obviously rigged to the point in made the U.S. look like a circus to the rest of the world.

...I see there's no point.

false flag terrorism all i have to say


they found explosive residue in the dust. its a whole bunch of bullshit and everyone knows it

I honestly don't understand how people still believe the government's story on 9/11 is anything close to accurate. It's nothing more than a bunch of nonsense. The idea that a 747 can bring down a building that was made to withstand multiple plane impacts is just ridiculous.

Yes, there was jetfuel burning inside the building, but jet fuel (which is Kerosene) does NOT burn anywhere near the temperature required to melt steel. Yes, the steel gerders will lose strength when exposed to heat, however, in no possible way would it cause a pancake collapse. The buildings fell at FREE-FALL speed. There is only ONE possible way that mass can be moved at that rate, and that is with the use of explosives - as with any controlled demolition. Remember all the 9/11 survivors claiming they heard multiple, loud, explosions before the collapse? No, you probably don't because it never made it on the news. But then again, what controversial information makes it on the news these days? This is just one of the MANY inconsistencies in the "official" 9/11 story. I could type until my fingers bleed, but I would rather you go out and verify the information yourself.

Have you ever noticed what happens to those that speak out against the government's propaganda? Willie Nelson has been labeled as a pot-smoking hippy that has no credibility due to his comments on 911. Anyone that goes on CNN or FOX is immediately labeled a "conspiracy theorist" and suddenly their credibility also goes in the garbage. The 9/11 heist is nothing new folks, it's just another old political escapade that has been used by those in power for a very long time. Think of the burning of the Richstag, in which Hitler was able to further his transition of power- just as the patriot act extended the power of the federal government to profound new lengths - under the guise of "homeland security". The "official" 9/11 story is the most perverse, twisted joke I've ever seen proclaimed as the truth, and even more astounding is the people's reaction - they don't give a damn.

I will end this post in the same way that Bill Hicks ended one of his shows.

"Go back to bed, America. Your government has figured out how it all transpired. Go back to bed, America. Your government is in control again. Here. Here's american gladiators. Watch this, shut up. Go back to bed, America. Here is American Gladiators. Here is 56 channels of it! Watch these pituitary retards bang their fucking skulls together and congratulate you on living in the land of freedom. Here you go, America! You are free to do as we tell you! You are free to do what we tell you! "

Thank you.
~M2B