Thread: Guns vs. Government - the discussion of violence in the U.S. and abroad

Originally Posted by dogsoldier

semantics.

Sex...bestiality...semantics...

All just a joke!

How many of you here that wanna to carry weapons were in the service?

Mutha phuqas!

I'll take that weapon and shove it up your ass and pull the trigger, and you'd like it, cause having a dude shoot you up the ass happens nightly.

Originally Posted by dogsoldier

If you read about the history of gun control in America you will change you opinion. The roots of gun control are deeply founded in racism. Remember, racism does not necessarily mean against one of another color. The elites do not want the peasants armed, plain and simple.

Minorities vote for the left because they have had the "victim" mentality beat into them forever. The nanny state of the democrats is the highest form of racism. "You are too stupid to think for yourself so here is some goodies to vote for us".

I agree with you there. That is prejudice against a social status though. Its not race specific. They do not want the poor or middle class to have a voice. They think because they are wealthy they are smarter than us and have the right to decide for us. Well we have TWO voices. When they stop listening to the one that talks they will have to listen to the one that booms.

Originally Posted by LAM

I'm all for 1st Amend rights but in reality they are not really applicable in the time we live in.

having civilians armed in public isn't a good idea either to combat the threat outside of the home, this causes an array of other problems when you are talking about civilians whom are not weapons experts discharging firearms in public.

You mean 2nd admendment don't you?
And the argument about armed civilians causing more harm than good has been proven not to be true. There is a very low percentage of accidents by ccw carriers. Most often, they never even have to fire a gun.

Originally Posted by LAM

Law Enforcement and Private Citizens Killed by Concealed Handgun Permit Holders

http://www.vpc.org/studies/ccw2009.pdf

With the probable number of ccw in the whole united states, that probably equates to about .000001%. Yep very big deal.
I'm using a 50 million ccw%. Even if it isn't that high, you can see the number percentage wise in negligible.

Originally Posted by ZECH

You mean 2nd admendment don't you?
And the argument about armed civilians causing more harm than good has been proven not to be true. There is a very low percentage of accidents by ccw carriers. Most often, they never even have to fire a gun.

There are no numbers at all that would even accurately show how many crimes have been stopped by ccw holders. The generally don't go to the police and say "Hey, I stopped someone from carjacking me. You might want to write this down..."

Since the country hasn't turned into one giant Deadwood gun battle we can only assume ccw holders at minimum are not making things worse. If anything they are making things better and not by being vigilantes, just by being ordinary armed citizens that occasionally happen to be in the right place at the right time. The handful of deaths caused by ccw holders only reinforces this. Other demographics cause much more death by far.

I'll take this to the next level. I believe machine gun ownership should be legal with a class 3 stamp. I know that they are legal for personal ownership now, but they have to be registered before '86. Which makes them all high dollar collectors pieces now. ex. M16 = about $16,000. Reagan passed this in '86 for no reason at all.

Crime with Legally Owned Machine Guns
In 1995 there were over 240,000 machine guns registered with the ATF. (Zawitz, Marianne,Bureau of Justice Statistics, Guns Used in Crime [PDF].) About half are owned by civilians and the other half by police departments and other governmental agencies (Gary Kleck, Targeting Guns: Firearms and Their Control, Walter de Gruyter, Inc., New York, 1997.)
Since 1934, there appear to have been at least two homicides committed with legally owned automatic weapons. One was a murder committed by a law enforcement officer (as opposed to a civilian). On September 15th, 1988, a 13-year veteran of the Dayton, Ohio police department, Patrolman Roger Waller, then 32, used his fully automatic MAC-11 .380 caliber submachine gun to kill a police informant, 52-year-old Lawrence Hileman. Patrolman Waller pleaded guilty in 1990, and he and an accomplice were sentenced to 18 years in prison. The 1986 'ban' on sales of new machine guns does not apply to purchases by law enforcement or government agencies.
---
The other homicide, possibly involving a legally owned machine gun, occurred on September 14, 1992, also in Ohio (source).
In Targeting Guns, Kleck cites the director of ATF testifying before Congress that he knew of less than ten crimes that were committed with legally owned machine guns (no time period was specified). Kleck says these crimes could have been nothing more than violations of gun regulations such as failure to notify ATF after moving a registered gun between states.

That's one "possible" civilian murder in about 80yrs. I see no reason that as a law abiding citizen I shouldn't be able to buy a new one for the $1800 it's probably worth. Hell, the ATF let me buy two new silencers.

I have no problem with letting individuals do whatever the fuck they want. I dont think we need AT-4's in the civilian population but automatic weapons dont bother me. Plus it will be better to have machine guns when the world turns to zombies. Just saying.

Originally Posted by BillHicksFan

What makes you so certain about that?

The fact that the UK ban gun is retarded.

Criminals will still get guns. You are just disarming law abiding citizens who will actually follow the law.

And if criminal don't have easy access to guns, then they'll just use knives.

UK knife crime. LOL!!!!

Victims of Knife Crime - Tragic Stories of Knife Crime Victims UK

Originally Posted by LAM

in that case either a .40 or .45. don't need the high capacity of a 9mm when you have increased stopping power of the higher calibers

if you are also a fan of knives I suggest the CKRT Hissatsu folder.

It's not about "stopping power". It's about shot placement. Most people suck at shooting cardboard. Under the stress of a real life death force encounter, they are going to shoot even worse. They need all the capacity they can get in a handgun.

Originally Posted by robbiek426

I have no problem with letting individuals do whatever the fuck they want. I dont think we need AT-4's in the civilian population but automatic weapons dont bother me. Plus it will be better to have machine guns when the world turns to zombies. Just saying.

I may not NEED a fully automatic weapon but if I want one I should be able to go out and buy one without getting special permission from anyone. Aside from generating more money for the government to waste on utter bullshit it makes purchase and ownership something the government can take away. It ceases to be a right.

Not everybody has that luxury, did you ever consider that? VA hospitals are always in the worst areas possible so the government can save money on building on cheap land. Examples, downtown Phoenix, east orange nj, bonham tx etc. people need health care more than others.

Last year, I drew down on a bum for charging at me with a toaster oven in his hand like he was going to hit me with it. lucky for him, he backed up and walked away calling me names and making a spectacle of himself.

Originally Posted by LAM

National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund: Preliminary 2011 Fatality Statistics

http://www.bradycenter.org/xshare/pd...s-misdeeds.pdf

National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund: Causes of Law Enforcement Deaths

National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund: Preliminary 2011 Fatality Statistics

I found a much easier solution than carrying even though I have a CCW, I just don't go to shitty places or areas that are high in crime.

In a country that has double the rate of bi-polar disorders (at 4.4% of the pop) of any other country (of which only 50% are under treatment) and a shrinking economy that is going down the crapper and a totally fucked up political system. I couldn't think of a much worst idea than getting more firearms out on the streets.

Originally Posted by LAM

did you even look at the links because only 1 is from brady the rest are from the national law enforcement memorial fund.

you honest believe that arming more people in a large violent population with a growing mental health problem is going to make things "better"? seriously...

Hell fucking yes I do

I rural Alabama, guns per capita are probably the highest then anywhere in the world. I came into this world already owning a nice collection of guns handed down by my grandfather. I was shooting a 410 gauge by the time I was 5. I was shooting a 20 gauge by the time I was 6 and was shooting everything but my dads .30-06 by the time I was 10. I didn't even hunt, I just enjoyed shooting.

To say guns were ingrained into our culture is an understatement. But, we also had the fewest gun fatalities per capita. We had crazy rebel flag wearing south will rise again lunatics running around armed to the tit, yet gun violence was almost unheard of.

I can't help but to believe that gun violence is more related to culture than the availability of guns.

Originally Posted by KelJu

I rural Alabama, guns per capita are probably the highest then anywhere in the world. I came into this world already owning a nice collection of guns handed down by my grandfather. I was shooting a 410 gauge by the time I was 5. I was shooting a 20 gauge by the time I was 6 and was shooting everything but my dads .30-06 by the time I was 10. I didn't even hunt, I just enjoyed shooting.

To say guns were ingrained into our culture is an understatement. But, we also had the fewest gun fatalities per capita. We had crazy rebel flag wearing south will rise again lunatics running around armed to the tit, yet gun violence was almost unheard of.

I can't help but to believe that gun violence is more related to culture than the availability of guns.

agreed......i blame it on rap music

We shot our bows at school and had our shotguns in the truck. Try that in school today.

Originally Posted by ZECH

We shot our bows at school and had our shotguns in the truck. Try that in school today.

Hell, we had 22 rifle rifle marksmanship as part of our PE when I was a kid.

My mother bought me my first rifle when I was 10. It was a single shot 22 short. She bought it from Woolworth's.

And as a kid, we would grab our 22's hop on our bikes head down to the lake front and shoot rats. When the cops showed up they usually joined in or gave us pointers.

And this was all in NY State, Buffalo to be exact.

Things have changed.

Fuck lam and anyone who thinks like him. They guy buys guns as much as the rest of us yet he argues that its a bad idea to arm citizens to defend themselves.

Originally Posted by Killermonkey

Fuck lam and anyone who thinks like him. They guy buys guns as much as the rest of us yet he argues that its a bad idea to arm citizens to defend themselves.

further evidence all the stuff he posts is just to get a rise out of you

Perhaps, however I still despise people who shit on the constitution.