Thread: No More Free Shit!

that rant couldn't be anymore inaccurate.

Originally Posted by Prince

ELECTION 2012 IS COMING

A Nation of Sheep Breeds a Government of Wolves!

Obama: Gone!

Borders: Closed!

Language: English only

Culture: Constitution, and the Bill of Rights!

Drug Free: Mandatory Drug Screening before Welfare!

NO freebies to: Non-Citizens!

We the people are coming.

Oh, hell yes! This is the shit that needs to happen. We'll be so much better off if we do.

I'd like to add pulling our troops out of the Middle East. It's a waste of American lives and money.

not mine, just an email I received.

Originally Posted by LAM

that rant couldn't be anymore inaccurate.

don't u agree with this:

Obama: Gone!
Borders: Closed!
Language: English only
Culture: Constitution, and the Bill of Rights!
Drug Free: Mandatory Drug Screening before Welfare!
NO freebies to: Non-Citizens!

Yes, I now want Obama out of office, not because I don't like him or think he's doing a bad job. I want him out because the GOP is going to make sure Obama is as ineffective as they can and its not doing us the people any good.

Originally Posted by Prince

not mine, just an email I received.

I know that...it's just funny because not a single one of the problems that caused the debt crisis in the US or this unbalanced economy were mentioned. painfully obvious that the writer has not a single clue about the topic he is bitching about but was educated from TV on these topics.

the mercantilist finance system started by the British by "perfected" by the US by the use of the dollar hedgemoney to borrow from the high saving countries of China and Japan in return of US T-notes. giving the US historical and unprecedented access to the world's capital and the ability to live far beyond it's means.

the shift in the US in 1980 going from a manufacturing based economy to that of monetarism is what started the US down the debt path to grow the self-serving US financial/banking sector which relies on public debt. the demise of public unions in the US which took the power of labor to help fight for fair wages as productivity increases and/or inflation, etc. and the increase in the historically low paying service sector. higher paying jobs being replaced with lower paying jobs all to fuel debt which feeds the US banking sector.

the data starts in pages in the high 20 and continues. you can see the growth of the US deficit.
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy11/pdf/hist.pdf

the loss of tax progressivity in the US. taxes for just about every income quintile except the poor are at record lows, yet the know-nothings still complain about high taxes in the US. or comparing US corporate tax rates with country's that we don't even trade with, this shows a complete and udder lack of understand of economics and a loss of touch with reality.

http://www.cbpp.org/archiveSite/4-10-03tax.pdf

and the kicker is not a mention of lobbying and especially that of the banking sector...which is the undisputed cause of many problems in DC. no country in the world permits lobbying to the degree that it is allowed in the US, about 95% of the world does not allow it.

Originally Posted by Prince

Yes, I now want Obama out of office, not because I don't like him or think he's doing a bad job. I want him out because the GOP is going to make sure Obama is as ineffective as they can and its not doing us the people any good.

the problem with this is that the GOP is a one trick pony in DC..they will go back to the same policies such as supply-side tax cuts and financial deregulation that got us into the whole mess. neither of which have ever benefited the working class, these policies only make corporations and the banking sector stronger increase income inequality continuing to make the economy more fragile and unstable insuring plenty of bubble and burst cycles in the future.

that commie lam..

Originally Posted by LAM

I know that...it's just funny because not a single one of the problems that caused the debt crisis in the US or this unbalanced economy were mentioned. painfully obvious that the writer has not a single clue about the topic he is bitching about but was educated from TV on these topics.

the mercantilist finance system started by the British by "perfected" by the US by the use of the dollar hedgemoney to borrow from the high saving countries of China and Japan in return of US T-notes. giving the US historical and unprecedented access to the world's capital and the ability to live far beyond it's means.

the shift in the US in 1980 going from a manufacturing based economy to that of monetarism is what started the US down the debt path to grow the self-serving US financial/banking sector which relies on public debt. the demise of public unions in the US which took the power of labor to help fight for fair wages as productivity increases and/or inflation, etc. and the increase in the historically low paying service sector. higher paying jobs being replaced with lower paying jobs all to fuel debt which feeds the US banking sector.

the data starts in pages in the high 20 and continues. you can see the growth of the US deficit.
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy11/pdf/hist.pdf

the loss of tax progressivity in the US. taxes for just about every income quintile except the poor are at record lows, yet the know-nothings still complain about high taxes in the US. or comparing US corporate tax rates with country's that we don't even trade with, this shows a complete and udder lack of understand of economics and a loss of touch with reality.

http://www.cbpp.org/archiveSite/4-10-03tax.pdf

and the kicker is not a mention of lobbying and especially that of the banking sector...which is the undisputed cause of many problems in DC. no country in the world permits lobbying to the degree that it is allowed in the US, about 95% of the world does not allow it.

Could you point to a thread where you offer suggested solutions?

Originally Posted by Curt James

Could you point to a thread where you offer suggested solutions?

as an analyst my forte is pretty much identifying problems but I have been working on this as it applies to economics. from what the problems that most economists recognize it's going to take all of us to make the changes necessary to get the US going again. I will make some simple categories


Effective
---------
decreasing fed debt and curtailing future growth rates to that less than or equal than real GDP growth (studies show that historically high debt carrying countries do not benefit from deficit reduction in terms of increasing consumption. spending patterns are more determined on the long term outlook of the manageability of the public debt).

education reform from the bottom up to suit the changing world (more vocational schools and training less fluff classes at university to reduce costs and time, etc.)

balancing the economy (far less emphasis on capital and investment, increasing the sectors of manufacturing & production to 1970's levels in time) excluding people (idle human capital) from the workforce reduces GDP growth. everybody has different skill sets and learning potential and the economy needs to reflect this, content workers are far more productive. with the high population of the US if we had a labor participation rate of like 80% the GDP of the US would skyrocket and there would be real income growth across all job markets.

ending most forms of lobbying

closing corp tax loopholes (moving forward towards the lowering of corp tax rates in the future)

simplifying US tax system

ending subsidy's for billion dollar corps (Boeing, big oil, etc)

ending subsidy's for agriculture

breaking up the too big to fail banks

strict banking regulation and oversight (personally I would push for ending derivatives trading)

ending the suppt of for-profit institutions by the federal gov in all forms

increased labor unionization rates. high unionization rates in OECD countries bring up wages for everyone. when wages lag behind productivity rates they can be increased with out causing price inflation (this is economics 101). in the US this is even more important since the CPI is artificially manipulated to understate inflation (inflation as the result of monetary policy from the central bank when it increases the money supply).

healthcare reform (costs could easily be reduced by 30% by reducing unnecessary expensive tests, billing simplification, increased prevention with health care spanning the life)

reducing the size and eventually phasing out Fannie Mae & Freddy Mack

term limits



Not Effective
------------
supply-side tax cuts
banking deregulation
right to work legislation


Red Herrings
----------
US corporate tax rates as compared to non-trading partners
FDA regulations pertaining to big corps and pollution.


Other
-------

less central bank involvement. in theory a independent 3rd party would be optimum for monetary policy but history shows us these institutions do not function as such. on the other hand self-regulation of the money supply definitely DOES NOT work either.

I agree with most of it but what does "drug free" mean?
Is that only for welfare recipients or for all Americans? And if it's for everyone then does that mean stricter drug laws?

Just asking because by definition this whole website revoles around "drugs"

ron pual

I like to think all of my tax money goes to watering the grass at Arlington Cemetary and pays the guards at the Tomb of the Unknowns, you guys are the ones paying for the welfare roaches....

Originally Posted by maniclion

I like to think all of my tax money goes to watering the grass at Arlington Cemetary and pays the guards at the Tomb of the Unknowns, you guys are the ones paying for the welfare roaches....

i have family burried their so i will think the same thing =)

Actually, it's more like this:

There are a few people who get too much free shit, and 38% of that is paid by 1% of the population. This group gets free shit because they they made poor life decisions.

There are is a large majority of people who get some free shit, much much more than they think.

The 1% of people who pay a large absolute amount hold 42% of the wealth and pay 38% of the taxes. Any reasonably intelligent person could figure that since they hold 42% of the wealth, they should pay 42% of the taxes, but this group is smarter than the other groups.

This group fires up the majority of people in to thinking that the 5 people collecting $17,000 are a much more potent driver of our debt than 2 wars, a bank bailout, and big business subsidies. When this group makes poor life decisions, like driving the economy in to the ground, the government prints up more money and gives it to them. The other 99% of the population is on the hook for 62% of that.

In addition, despite sitting on $2 trillion dollars and year over year record profits. , the reason they can't hire is that burdensome minimum wage, unions, and terrible regulations are pinching them too much to hire.

The majority are too stupid and angry that 5 people are getting a free ride to see that the largest driver of our debt is those guys at the top.

Black guy fucks things up, but not as bad as the last guy.

Platform of party looking to unseat black guy is to make sure that the 1% gets more money in their hands, and that the other 99% get reduced services while paying the same amount in taxes. Maybe if we're lucky they'll drive the economy into the ground again too.


To be continued.

Originally Posted by sofargone561

ron paul

Ditto

Originally Posted by LAM

as an analyst my forte is pretty much identifying problems but I have been working on this as it applies to economics. from what the problems that most economists recognize it's going to take all of us to make the changes necessary to get the US going again. I will make some simple categories


Effective
---------
decreasing fed debt and curtailing future growth rates to that less than or equal than real GDP growth (studies show that historically high debt carrying countries do not benefit from deficit reduction in terms of increasing consumption. spending patterns are more determined on the long term outlook of the manageability of the public debt).

education reform from the bottom up to suit the changing world (more vocational schools and training less fluff classes at university to reduce costs and time, etc.)

balancing the economy (far less emphasis on capital and investment, increasing the sectors of manufacturing & production to 1970's levels in time) excluding people (idle human capital) from the workforce reduces GDP growth. everybody has different skill sets and learning potential and the economy needs to reflect this, content workers are far more productive. with the high population of the US if we had a labor participation rate of like 80% the GDP of the US would skyrocket and there would be real income growth across all job markets.

ending most forms of lobbying

closing corp tax loopholes (moving forward towards the lowering of corp tax rates in the future)

simplifying US tax system

ending subsidy's for billion dollar corps (Boeing, big oil, etc)

ending subsidy's for agriculture

breaking up the too big to fail banks

strict banking regulation and oversight (personally I would push for ending derivatives trading)

ending the suppt of for-profit institutions by the federal gov in all forms

increased labor unionization rates. high unionization rates in OECD countries bring up wages for everyone. when wages lag behind productivity rates they can be increased with out causing price inflation (this is economics 101). in the US this is even more important since the CPI is artificially manipulated to understate inflation (inflation as the result of monetary policy from the central bank when it increases the money supply).

healthcare reform (costs could easily be reduced by 30% by reducing unnecessary expensive tests, billing simplification, increased prevention with health care spanning the life)

reducing the size and eventually phasing out Fannie Mae & Freddy Mack

term limits



Not Effective
------------
supply-side tax cuts
banking deregulation
right to work legislation


Red Herrings
----------
US corporate tax rates as compared to non-trading partners
FDA regulations pertaining to big corps and pollution.


Other
-------

less central bank involvement. in theory a independent 3rd party would be optimum for monetary policy but history shows us these institutions do not function as such. on the other hand self-regulation of the money supply definitely DOES NOT work either.

This right here.

everytime i read the tittle to the thread i think of the movie next friday and the little spanish guy! NO MORE LOCKED DOORS!

Originally Posted by Prince

don't u agree with this:

Obama: Gone!
Borders: Closed!
Language: English only
Culture: Constitution, and the Bill of Rights!
Drug Free: Mandatory Drug Screening before Welfare!
NO freebies to: Non-Citizens!

GOP presidents weaken the economy not strengthen it so I would surely rather see another 4 years of Obama getting nothing done with the GOP obstructed than another GOP president that only makes things worst with bad policy hard to overturn which only makes the deep hole we are in even deeper. conservative economic policies don't even work at the state level as the "prosperity" across the southern states and federal tax dollar redistribution to these states is evidence of this.

the borders are open for a reason and not to benefit you or I. in terms of a fence or anything like that for the past 30 years physical barriers across the world have been removed which separated countries, spurred on by the US government.

English was never the official language of the US changing this does nothing to help Americans in terms of economics, red herrings are a waste of time.

Bill of Rights - so is this like reversing the Patriot Act or buying into the delusion of limited government? of which there is not a single report out of academia which supports such. I suspect they know much more about this subject than any politician selling it.

drug testing for welfare? are you talking about TANF or food stamps. there is a lifetime 60 month maximum for TANF benefits and felons and convicts with serious drug crimes have lifetime bans on TANF benefits. all this stuff is on the TANF website and was changed under the welfare reform act of 1996 signed by clinton. all red herrings and have zero effect on the economy. just about any decent sociological report shows that poverty comes first then when disparity sets in abuse of alcohol and drugs comes into play. wall street spends more money on cocaine than they do in the ghetto but they party for a different reason, they have all the money. about 2% of the percentage of the poverty population (14% of the US) stays on various programs for extended periods of time this equates to about 1.25M people out of 300M, a non-issue and complete waste of time.

freebies to non-citizens - these things can be changed and are mainly under control by state governments. social security and healthcare is not available to illegal aliens as it is barely offered to legal aliens. healthcare only babies and children to those born in the US as it has been for many years. but this stuff falls into the red herring department also. poor people with no money don't cause global banking collapses rich greedy people that have an excessive wealth do.

Originally Posted by LAM

GOP presidents weaken the economy not strengthen it so I would surely rather see another 4 years of Obama getting nothing done with the GOP obstructed than another GOP president that only makes things worst with bad policy hard to overturn which only makes the deep hole we are in even deeper. conservative economic policies don't even work at the state level as the "prosperity" across the southern states and federal tax dollar redistribution to these states is evidence of this.

the borders are open for a reason and not to benefit you or I. in terms of a fence or anything like that for the past 30 years physical barriers across the world have been removed which separated countries, spurred on by the US government.

English was never the official language of the US changing this does nothing to help Americans in terms of economics, red herrings are a waste of time.

Bill of Rights - so is this like reversing the Patriot Act or buying into the delusion of limited government? of which there is not a single report out of academia which supports such. I suspect they know much more about this subject than any politician selling it.

drug testing for welfare? are you talking about TANF or food stamps. there is a lifetime 60 month maximum for TANF benefits and felons and convicts with serious drug crimes have lifetime bans on TANF benefits. all this stuff is on the TANF website and was changed under the welfare reform act of 1996 signed by clinton. all red herrings and have zero effect on the economy. just about any decent sociological report shows that poverty comes first then when disparity sets in abuse of alcohol and drugs comes into play. wall street spends more money on cocaine than they do in the ghetto but they party for a different reason, they have all the money. about 2% of the percentage of the poverty population (14% of the US) stays on various programs for extended periods of time this equates to about 1.25M people out of 300M, a non-issue and complete waste of time.

freebies to non-citizens - these things can be changed and are mainly under control by state governments. social security and healthcare is not available to illegal aliens as it is barely offered to legal aliens. healthcare only babies and children to those born in the US as it has been for many years. but this stuff falls into the red herring department also. poor people with no money don't cause global banking collapses rich greedy people that have an excessive wealth do.

I just face palmed... Obama needs to go and half the GOP need to stfu. That said, fuck nancy and Harry and please god get a reformed tax system along with a 50-75 year energy policy. I could care who is in office as long as these two things happen. And who the fuck cares about gay marriage and abortion... It is so far down the ladder it shouldn't be on the radar. Oh and legalize weed for the love of Christ.

Originally Posted by oufinny

I just face palmed... Obama needs to go and half the GOP need to stfu.

* nothing wrong with having an opinion but you don't know jack about economics nor your party..

things would be much better if Obama stayed and half the GOP was GONE. all economic data shows that the US economy functions better under democrats than republicans. every-time the GOP has control of the white house inequality increases making things go from bad to worst. every single time since Reagan, this is economic fact and not opinion.

Partisan Politics and the U.S. Income Distribution
http://www.princeton.edu/~bartels/income.pdf

and that is why you see a decline in labors share of the national income drop when the GOP has control of the White House. the decrease under Reagan is the lowest as the increase in production for the cold war increased earnings for labor.

Nonfarm Business Sector: Labor Share
Nonfarm Business Sector: Labor Share (PRS85006173) - FRED - St. Louis Fed

Why is it that all the low income states are predominately conservative?
http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/regi...highlights.pdf

Why is it that the conservative states get more federal tax dollars than they put in?
The Tax Foundation - Federal Taxes Paid vs. Federal Spending Received by State, 1981-2005


Bush On Jobs: The Worst Track Record On Record - Real Time Economics - WSJ

The New York Times > Business > Image > Presidents and Economic Performance

Op-Chart - Bulls, Bears, Donkeys and Elephants - Interactive Graphic - NYTimes.com

Originally Posted by LAM

* nothing wrong with having an opinion but you don't know jack about economics nor your party..

things would be much better if Obama stayed and half the GOP was GONE. all economic data shows that the US economy functions better under democrats than republicans. every-time the GOP has control of the white house inequality increases making things go from bad to worst. every single time since Reagan, this is economic fact and not opinion.

Partisan Politics and the U.S. Income Distribution
http://www.princeton.edu/~bartels/income.pdf

and that is why you see a decline in labors share of the national income drop when the GOP has control of the White House. the decrease under Reagan is the lowest as the increase in production for the cold war increased earnings for labor.

Nonfarm Business Sector: Labor Share
Nonfarm Business Sector: Labor Share (PRS85006173) - FRED - St. Louis Fed

Why is it that all the low income states are predominately conservative?
http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/regi...highlights.pdf

Why is it that the conservative states get more federal tax dollars than they put in?
The Tax Foundation - Federal Taxes Paid vs. Federal Spending Received by State, 1981-2005


Bush On Jobs: The Worst Track Record On Record - Real Time Economics - WSJ

The New York Times > Business > Image > Presidents and Economic Performance

Op-Chart - Bulls, Bears, Donkeys and Elephants - Interactive Graphic - NYTimes.com

How the f*ck do you figure? Obama and the Dems ruled with a majority iron fist his first two years in office and have nothing to show for it other than Obamacare and a BS credit card bill that doubled, even tripled interest rates on the middle class in the middle of a recession. Obama and his Democrats had 2 years to right the ship but it's sinking even more now.

Originally Posted by Big Pimpin

How the f*ck do you figure? Obama and the Dems ruled with a majority iron fist his first two years in office and have nothing to show for it other than Obamacare and a BS credit card bill that doubled, even tripled interest rates on the middle class in the middle of a recession. Obama and his Democrats had 2 years to right the ship but it's sinking even more now.

how do I figure? Well I figure because it's what all the data shows. you do realize that the effects of economic policy last decades don't you?

recovery from banking failures take at least 5 years so 2007 + 5 = 2012 at the earliest..but fiscal contraction of government stimulus when unemployment is still high makes things worst not better so 2012 is no longer in the picture more like 2016 now

it's ok this stuff is well beyond your abilities and knowledge base...if you have a problem with interest rates doubling then you probably should have a look at the Depository Institutions Deregulation and Monetary Control Act of 1980 which gave banks the right to charge whatever interest rates they choose..the banks are simply making up for profits lost by what are now historically low rates of lending..

Originally Posted by Big Pimpin

How the f*ck do you figure? Obama and the Dems ruled with a majority iron fist his first two years in office and have nothing to show for it other than Obamacare and a BS credit card bill that doubled, even tripled interest rates on the middle class in the middle of a recession. Obama and his Democrats had 2 years to right the ship but it's sinking even more now.

That's bullshit on the credit card thing. I think one of mine went up 1%, the rest stayed the same. Regardless, was it better for us when they could raise it at any time for any reason? When they did that before, they did it on everything you owed including stuff you purchased prior to the rate increase, at least now they can only increase it on further purchases.

• simplifying US tax system
• ending subsidies for billion dollar corps (Boeing, big oil, etc)
• ending subsidies for agriculture
• breaking up the too big to fail banks
• healthcare reform (costs could easily be reduced by 30% by reducing unnecessary expensive tests, billing simplification, increased prevention with health care spanning the life)
• term limits

^^^^ I'm liking all those ideas. (The other ones? Well, most of what you write is like Klingon to me. I do not speak Klingon.)

Thank you for your reply!

Here's a few more:

Bring back Glass Steagall
regulate derivatives
legalize drugs

Originally Posted by TonyMack

Here's a few more:

Bring back Glass Steagall
regulate derivatives
legalize drugs

Everything.

I'm not going to shoot heroin just because some politician says I'm allowed.

But legalizing all these substances would keep jails from overflowing and possibly find money redirected to rehabilitation facilities instead.