Thread: Tell Congress to reject cuts to the Pell Grant program!

Originally Posted by Thee_One

So what's your damn point??

First you say "sign your life away by joining the military for a chance to go to college",
Then you come back and naysay it with this post.

You need to get your shit straight.

That was my way of saying Fuck you.

Originally Posted by TJTJ

Because morally it's the right thing to do.

You're forcing your sacrificial morality on others.

Public funding inflates the cost of tuition (if that wasn't obvious). It should be no surprise universities want to make money. With the ever increasing money(for the sole purpose of attending school) available to students there is no reason why the universities should cut cost. They know students can pay for it with grants and loans.

School funding is also based often times on graduation rates. So another detrimental effect occurs, with more students getting pumped through the system the value of your education is deflated. Graduating more students has the same effect as printing more money.

Another effect is that employers can now require degrees that are unnecessary. Wisconsin requires a bachelors to substitute teach elementary school; if the grade school did their job in the first place no one would need to go to college to learn basic math skills or grammar.
A manufacturer can move into an area and strike a deal with local government and the university to create a program that 'will prepare them for a career with company X'; when in reality the degree is totally unneeded for the position it trains you for.

Too much gov't aid inflates college tuition costs (OneNewsNow.com)

Originally Posted by Thee_One

Why is grade school free to attend (besides taxes).
But "higher education" is SUPER EXPENSIVE?

I'm not saying take from you and give to me.

I'm just questioning the practice to begin with.

Think about it.

Because in order to have a modern functioning society, a minimum standard of education is required.

Moverover, part of the role of the public education system is to create Americans... to give people a sense of patriotism and indoctrinate them in what it is to be an American. (This is why you sang the pledge of allegiance K-12). It's why we learn about American history; it's why we learn about the American Government.

Teaching people to count, multiple, add, and divide is kind of important too if you want to function in our society.

None of this requires higher education. This is why the government doesn't pay for it.

I know you don't pay them back, whats your point? if you have ever had financial aid, then you know that you get free money and loans. Thus when you graduate and have to pay back your loans, you are paying everything back. It might be free at the time, but you still have to turn in a tax return form at the end of the year. Also the profession I'm majoring in isn't hurting. No matter what, people are always getting sick and needing medical care. Also if i cant get a job here in the united states, there is always a demand for "my" career worldwide.

Sorry "bro" but I don't think I will have to worry about a job or money anytime soon...unsubscribed.

Originally Posted by djlance

I know you don't pay them back, whats your point? if you have ever had financial aid, then you know that you get free money and loans. Thus when you graduate and have to pay back your loans, you are paying everything back. It might be free at the time, but you still have to turn in a tax return form at the end of the year. Also the profession I'm majoring in isn't hurting. No matter what, people are always getting sick and needing medical care. Also if i cant get a job here in the united states, there is always a demand for "my" career worldwide.

Sorry "bro" but I don't think I will have to worry about a job or money anytime soon...unsubscribed.

Good. Maybe when you start making an income and paying taxes, your opinion will change.

Originally Posted by M4A3

Because in order to have a modern functioning society, a minimum standard of education is required.

Moverover, part of the role of the public education system is to create Americans... to give people a sense of patriotism and indoctrinate them in what it is to be an American. (This is why you sang the pledge of allegiance K-12). It's why we learn about American history; it's why we learn about the American Government.

Teaching people to count, multiple, add, and divide is kind of important too if you want to function in our society.

None of this requires higher education. This is why the government doesn't pay for it.

Uhhhh.... I understand what you are getting at....and maybe it worked on stupid people.

But the pledge of allegiance never did anything for me. Speaking of 'Merica in class never made me brim with pride for being an American.

More likely the media (movies and television) has the most profound impact on indoctrinating children into buying the idea (without even knowing it) of what it means to be "American".

I agree with your point that minimum requirements should be set. But then why not stop at middle school? Most people don't give a shit by highschool anyway, and by that point the math etc is way beyond what's necessary for 90% of jobs.

Just more food for thought.

The real issue is that we can't start talking about one part of the system (in this case education) without discussing or laying down a general philosophy or idea of what the system "should be" as a whole.

The money for education could easily come from elsewhere.

But of course it all leads back to greed.

Originally Posted by M4A3

Fail. I have a degree in political science.

having a degree doesn't mean you actually have a working knowledge of that subject. I know dozens of college graduates that don't know jack squat about anything. passing tests only requires memorization not intelligence as they are not remotely the same.

Originally Posted by troubador

Public funding inflates the cost of tuition (if that wasn't obvious). It should be no surprise universities want to make money. With the ever increasing money(for the sole purpose of attending school) available to students there is no reason why the universities should cut cost. They know students can pay for it with grants and loans.

this is only because the changes were not implemented properly. you do not see profit seeking in higher learning institutions in any other OECD country expect for the US. but it is not just in tuition there is now the massive college book market scam.

in terms of tax expenditures being used for higher education the US is one of the lowest in the OECD.

Hypothetically speaking, lets say youre an 18yr student who just graduated from PUBLIC High School(that Im sure 95% of you in here have). You want to become a Doctor, Astrophysicist or (Fill in the blank)

Both of your parents made a modest living but then your Mom was laid off because the company outsourced her job to India and your father's hours were cut in half due to a mass layoff.

Now these unfortunate circumstances are no fault of yours.

Are you willing to throw him to the dogs and say tough shit? Or give this bright young man who's willing to learn some assistance?

This is just one of MANY possible events of young men and women today being placed in predicaments due to outside forces and no fault of their own.

And if you want to play the card of "Why should I pay" well we have been for decades, maybe even a couple of centuries and now all of a sudden you have a problem with it?!

Lets not get side tracked with all the bureaucratic red tape and how abysmal our education system is. Which I agree but Thats a whole other bag.

The point is everyone, at some point in their life needs a helping hand.

Originally Posted by LAM

having a degree doesn't mean you actually have a working knowledge of that subject. I know dozens of college graduates that don't know jack squat about anything. passing tests only requires memorization not intelligence as they are not remotely the same.

I didn't go to a shitty school, nor did I lose "my working knowledge".

Originally Posted by TJTJ

Hypothetically speaking, lets say youre an 18yr student who just graduated from PUBLIC High School(that Im sure 95% of you in here have). You want to become a Doctor, Astrophysicist or (Fill in the blank)

Both of your parents made a modest living but then your Mom was laid off because the company outsourced her job to India and your father's hours were cut in half due to a mass layoff.

Now these unfortunate circumstances are no fault of yours.

Are you willing to throw him to the dogs and say tough shit? Or give this bright young man who's willing to learn some assistance?

This is just one of MANY possible events of young men and women today being placed in predicaments due to outside forces and no fault of their own.

And if you want to play the card of "Why should I pay" well we have been for decades, maybe even a couple of centuries and now all of a sudden you have a problem with it?!

Lets not get side tracked with all the bureaucratic red tape and how abysmal our education system is. Which I agree but Thats a whole other bag.

The point is everyone, at some point in their life needs a helping hand.

[insert world's smallest violin pic here]

Originally Posted by M4A3

[insert world's smallest violin pic here]

[Insert lame comeback here]

This is an email my Senator sent me. Looks like we got through to them.

Dear *****

Thank you for contacting me regarding funding levels for the Federal Pell Grant program. I share your concerns about ensuring that all qualified high school graduates, regardless of family income, have the opportunity to attend college.

The Federal Pell Grant program is the single largest need-based, postsecondary student grant program administered by the U.S. Department of Education. It is considered a foundation of Federal financial aid, to which aid from other Federal and non-Federal sources might be added. In FY 2010, approximately nine million students benefitted from a Pell Grant award. These students overwhelmingly come from low- and moderate-income families, and would not otherwise be financially able to attend a postsecondary institution.

In recent years, the Pell Grant program has experienced tremendous growth. I believe that it is vitally important to maintain the effectiveness of the Federal Pell Grant program. In the budget negotiations for FY 2011, I voted for a spending package that kept the Federal Pell Grant award at its maximum level of $5,500. Increasing the number of college graduates is crucial to contributing to an educated workforce, and therefore America’s future success. As such, Pell Grants represent a responsible investment in our future.

President Obama as well as some members of Congress have proposed a number of ideas for the upcoming fiscal year to ensure that the Federal Pell Grant program remains sustainable. I will be sure to keep your views in mind as the Senate carefully examines these proposals. Please do not hesitate to contact my office should you have any further concerns.

Sincerely,
Bill Nelson

Interesting email TJ. Thanks for uploading it.

Originally Posted by M4A3

Why the fuck should the tax payers be subsidizing people's education costs?

If you can't afford it, go to junior college for two years, save money, transfer to a 4 year, and take loans. Problem solved.

Or, join ROTC and let them pay for it. Or enlist for 4 years, then go to college on the GI bill.

Everyone wants something for nothing these days. Get your damn hand out of the tax payer's pocket.

Aaaaand who pays for the GI bill?
moron..

Why would anyone go ROTC? The point of doing good in school is to not join the military.

damn poor people and them free programs.

I'm torn. I didn't qualify for grants until my last semester. I graduated one semester after I turned 25, and until then they based aid on parent's income. My mother had cancer twice, so my parents couldn't really afford to help. So, I put myself through college, and hated my life doing it, but it taught my self reliance which is something almost none of my friends have.

Working 35-45 hours a week and taking a full load of classes will drive most people to insanity. I burned out a few times and went to work construction 60-70 hours a week for a break. It's fucked up when just having a job is a vacation.

The part where I am torn is one side of me fills like I basically missed out on my late teens and early twenties, and if I have to do it, so should everybody else. The other side of me feels that just because I had it rough doesn't mean everybody else should be forced to. If you can make good grades in college, your education should be paid for.

Also, there are two things that need to be changed. First, the standards for getting into college should be much higher. There were a shit load of people at the university that didn't fucking need to be there. Second, college is too god damn expensive. Universities spend too much money on stupid fucking shit. My university didn't need a god damn cathedral library, 10 story bell tower, 10 million dollar outdoor amphitheater. All these cocksucking board members are competing with board members of other schools to see who can waste the most fucking money.

Bah! I am going to get pissed off if I think about this for one second longer. Fuck it!

Originally Posted by Gissurjon

Aaaaand who pays for the GI bill?
moron..

its paid for in blood and tears

Originally Posted by Gissurjon

Aaaaand who pays for the GI bill?
moron..

And at least we will have gotten something for our money moron.

A person who served in the military has EARNED THAT MONEY.

Originally Posted by Dark Geared God

its paid for in blood and tears

Exactly.

Originally Posted by M4A3

And at least we will have gotten something for our money moron.

A person who served in the military has EARNED THAT MONEY.



Exactly.

His next statement will be the unjust war blah balh blah

Originally Posted by Dark Geared God

His next statement will be the unjust war blah balh blah

And then we'll be forced to remind him that the military doesn't decide what wars they fight. The just go where they are ordered.

They fight for us, and for each other.

Well hello there "Gimmie Generation." Your right you all deserve for someone else to pay for part of your education, because you deserve it. Hell your breathing right - your contributing. To start you out, after college, it would also only be fair to provide you with a house. We wouldn't want you to feel too pressured to do this on your own. After all there are rich kids who's parents bought them one. Why should you be different.
A social program that is based on need that everyone has to pay for is unjust. Why should you benefit from a program when someone who is rich can't. It's political theft. And no I'm not rich by any stretch of the imagination, and probably never will be. But, I can still tell the difference between right and wrong.

People of America(or at least here) don't expect anyone to give you something you didn't earn. If they do say "Thank You" and realize that they are giving you something you are now owed. You are adults who will bitch about welfare programs until it's your hand out that is slapped.

Man UP!

Originally Posted by TJTJ

The point is everyone, at some point in their life needs a helping hand.

that's not even the real issue..

there is a small percentage of the US population that refuses to live in the present, they simply just don't understand the long term effects of globalization and trade liberalization. people in the US wonder why so many IT jobs are going to India well because the "average" IT guy in India has a double masters and has a working knowledge of hardware and software and in the US you have trouble finding a guy with a MIS degree or CS degree that can't swap out memory in a PC or flash a BIOS w/o needed help. I had to fire some guys in a lab that I managed years ago because their degrees were basically worthless, that had no hard skills at all. having worked in telecom and traveling all over the world I can say from experience that I have learned the most from non-Americans in the field.

Indian's get free higher education, China just invested 2T dollars in their education system in '09 from the ground up and the US is cutting funding from the ground up...we rank in the middle of the OECD in terms of rankings for math, science, etc. in the next 30-40 years the US will be at the bottom of the barrel.

http://www.all4ed.org/files/Facts_Fo...dv_Jan2009.pdf

U can always enlist in the Army for 3 years, and with the GI bill your entire college career will be paid for when u get out.

Originally Posted by exphysiologist88

I also used the pell grant to get me through college. I come from a very poor family and had absolutely no help there.

Same here on all counts.

Grants, loans, three jobs, and something called Veterans Educational Assistance Program (VEAP) enabled me to get through college.

Originally Posted by Prince

U can always enlist in the Army for 3 years, and with the GI bill your entire college career will be paid for when u get out.

and with that degree you can work in the service sector for $8-$14 hour unless you want to sell your soul and go work on wallstreet.

after each recession more and more white collar jobs are being lost permanently. all the high paying jobs in the US that can be shipped overseas are and this trend will only get worst in the future. this is why the college loan default rate is once again at an all time high. there is simply a lack of jobs in all markets in the US right now.

The other issue relates to graduate school loans. These loans are also being cut, and these days it takes more than a four year degree to be successful in many careers.