Thread: Anonymous speaks about the traitorous National Defense Authorization Act

Originally Posted by troubador

...and your equals.

Maybe people are equal in their inalienable rights or in some 'eyes of god' sense but people are definitely not equal in their ability and contributions. The engineer who designed the motor is much more valuable than the worker who sticks a bolt in it and should be paid accordingly.

Without the guy to stick the bolt in the hole to assemble the engine who else do you think is going to build it? It's not an Autobot so it sure isn't going to build itself and more like it.

I'm not saying they should be making the same amount of money, which some seem to think is what socialism is. It isn't. In socialism income is based on your own merit and your own contribution.

Originally Posted by Witmaster

You and I will just have to agree to disagree on this one.

If I am wrong then why are there so many Italians that have become wealthy by their own innovation, vision and intelligence? Italy is quite socialist, no? The only difference between Italy and the US is that the deck isn't stacked in favor of the wealthy.

Originally Posted by Zaphod

If I am wrong then why are there so many Italians that have become wealthy by their own innovation, vision and intelligence? Italy is quite socialist, no? The only difference between Italy and the US is that the deck isn't stacked in favor of the wealthy.

Socialism requires a certain cultural mindset to be successful. It works in Norway for instance because people see the benefits that socialism provides as a way to free themselves from basic worries of survival and apply their efforts to bettering themselves. Plus they aren't buried in foreign entanglements and commitments that keep them from focusing on their own country.

If people want socialism just to suckle them from cradle to grave it won't work. It definitely could not work here the same way it works there without people changing their attitudes en masse.

Originally Posted by Zaphod

Without the guy to stick the bolt in the hole to assemble the engine who else do you think is going to build it?

That's an easy one... the next guy. I could find someone to replace him within five minutes in an unemployment line. I have a friend who works on an engine assembly line while he's getting his degree and literally his main job is to pull a tag off engines as they go down the line.

Isn't Italy's economy in the shitter?

Norway is sitting on a fountain of black gold. They'd have a good economy no matter what system they adopted.

Originally Posted by troubador

Isn't Italy's economy in the shitter?

Norway is sitting on a fountain of black gold. They'd have a good economy no matter what system they adopted.

after the banking collapse in 2007 the ECB lent out monies to many EU country's at the same rate that they lend to germany which has a strong and healthy economy. now with the global recession GDP, corp profits, etc. are all down and debt is increasing.

norway is a high tax country, high union, high worker protection, high tariff, country, very protectionist. they did not buy into trade liberalization as many other country's did. the more open a country is to trade the more it's economy is exposed to external forces from other nations.

I'm not entirely sold on completely unfettered capitalism or communism/socialism. Most first world countries are hybrids even if they label themselves one way or another.

Socialism does not lead to communism necessarily or historically. In the 20th century, communism came into being through violent revolution (in Russia, China, Cuba, and Central America) after oligarchical political systems failed to take greivances seriously. The slippery slope to Communism theory just does not have any historical data to back it up.

Now reactionary politics mixed with public yearning for spectacle leading to fascism, there's plenty of historical precedent for that. Don't let people whip you into a frenzy with loaded language and imagery and you won't be so susceptible to mass manipulation.

Originally Posted by LAM

norway is a high tax country, high union, high worker protection, high tariff, country, very protectionist. they did not buy into trade liberalization as many other country's did. the more open a country is to trade the more it's economy is exposed to external forces from other nations.

Yeah, in Norway's case that external force is an influx of money from the export of their oil. They're the third largest oil exporter in the world.

European Commission : Trade : Norway (Bilateral relations)

Originally Posted by troubador

Isn't Italy's economy in the shitter?

Norway is sitting on a fountain of black gold. They'd have a good economy no matter what system they adopted.

Our economy really went south before Italy's did.

There are a number of countries sitting on oil and they aren't that well off.

what 5 star general said

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense, a theft. The cost of one modern, heavy bomber is this: a modern, brick school in more than 30 cities."

?

''In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes.''


anyone?

It's is a little off topic but its all relevant

Dwight D. Eisenhower
April 16, 1953
Washington, D.C.

"Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together."

too bad he can't be our NEXT president.

Originally Posted by banker23

Still no need to wear a mask in the USA unless you are a hypocrite and want to hide your masked self from your public self. Masks=cowardice in my book.

Body wtf you talking about? even you are wearing a mask...you know how Banker23? banker 23...why dont you use your real name? put up your adress? let me guess no you are not gonna use your real name nor put up your adress...
this means that you are also a coward!!!!!

Being secure is not being a coward idiot!!!!

Originally Posted by Imosted

Body wtf you talking about? even you are wearing a mask...you know how Banker23? banker 23...why dont you use your real name? put up your adress? let me guess no you are not gonna use your real name nor put up your adress...
this means that you are also a coward!!!!!

Being secure is not being a coward idiot!!!!

Agreed ^

If I may add, privacy is NOT a crime.

Originally Posted by Imosted

Body wtf you talking about? even you are wearing a mask...you know how Banker23? banker 23...why dont you use your real name? put up your adress? let me guess no you are not gonna use your real name nor put up your adress...
this means that you are also a coward!!!!!

Being secure is not being a coward idiot!!!!

I need one because I am possibly doing something improper and talking about it here...so yes I am afraid of consequences and in essence a coward as regards this matter. Thank you for pointing it out. I was aware of the irony even as I was posting it originally so kudos on picking it out. The guy in the video is doing nothing illegal and has no reason to hide and neither do I in the normal course of my day.

So doing something wrong=needing a mask. Villains and evildoers need them. Heroes and saints don't.

Originally Posted by banker23

I need one because I am possibly doing something improper and talking about it here...so yes I am afraid of consequences and in essence a coward as regards this matter. Thank you for pointing it out. I was aware of the irony even as I was posting it originally so kudos on picking it out. The guy in the video is doing nothing illegal and has no reason to hide and neither do I in the normal course of my day.

So doing something wrong=needing a mask. Villains and evildoers need them. Heroes and saints don't.

Do you know what anonymous do around world? or who they are? what they stand for? what kind of illigal activities they are involved in?

Originally Posted by troubador

That's an easy one... the next guy. I could find someone to replace him within five minutes in an unemployment line. I have a friend who works on an engine assembly line while he's getting his degree and literally his main job is to pull a tag off engines as they go down the line.

The problem is eventually you run out of "next guys."

What is wrong with your friend pulling a tag off an engine? If it has to come off it has to come off.

Originally Posted by Imosted

Do you know what anonymous do around world? or who they are? what they stand for? what kind of illigal activities they are involved in?

I have no idea. I thought it was the name the guy was using. Don't listen to me; I am oviously clueless here and I have some kind of deep psychological hatred of masks that clouds my reason apparently.

Originally Posted by Witmaster

Holy shit... who the fuck emasculated this crowd??!?


Come on people… This is NOT the end of your world. Sack up and take stock of what you’ve got and move forward with your lives. Sheesh.

What really amazes me is the inconsistency among the masses. I listen and read so many different points of views on this matter and it is COMICAL to see the hypocrisy.

I’ve seen so many on who march in complete lock-step in support of the OWS movement and the agenda to overthrow free enterprise and endorse the federal government to FORCE private business owners to surrender their assets. If they refuse, imprison them.

You wanted government MANDATED healthcare that penalizes those who refuse to participate.

Then these SAME PEOPLE go completely APE SHIT at the thought of the Federal government ratcheting down legislation to defend against TERRORISM?!?!?

You're getting precisely what you asked for. Your individual freedoms and liberties have slowly been eroding away right in front of your own eyes... often with your own blind support in the name of whatever silly agenda is the flavor of the month.

Some eloquent jackass puts on a mask and records a dramatic appeal to oppose this "government intrusion", yet that same cock sucker whole heartedly will support some twisted socialist agenda that undermines everything the constitution stands for. Yet... people will blindly follow this tool, so long as it appeases their emotional reactions.

Sure.... "V for Vendetta" has a certain appeal... if you want to end up looking like the rebels in Egypt and Libya.

Just sayin’

Horseshit! The constitution is about protecting the people from the government which is what the drafters had just fought their previous government over. Violating a person's fucking constitutional rights isn't manly. On the contrary, I think anyone who puts their faith and power into the hands of politicians is a pussy of epic proportions.

Since September 1st, 2011, almost as many people have died in this country from being struck by lightning as terrorist activities. Terrorism is a threat and should be dealt with, but fucking Jesus Christ, it's not worth throwing away your constitutional rights.

Originally Posted by KelJu

Horseshit! The constitution is about protecting the people from the government which is what the drafters had just fought their previous government over. Violating a person's fucking constitutional rights isn't manly. On the contrary, I think anyone who puts their faith and power into the hands of politicians is a pussy of epic proportions.

Since September 1st, 2011, almost as many people have died in this country from being struck by lightning as terrorist activities. Terrorism is a threat and should be dealt with, but fucking Jesus Christ, it's not worth throwing away your constitutional rights.

AnonNewsWire - Call to exercise constitutional rights


Author: Anonymous
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 20:54:05 +0000
Greetings, people of the world we are anonymous.

We have observed your abuse of power and we are being forced to assume the position of government no longer suits us.
Know this, We will defend our freedom as a collective and the infrastructure of control you have comprised shall collapse upon itself.
We shall as the people hold you accountable in our own court with the people as the jury.
Going against the peoples will shall be considered treason and punishable as the highest crime.

Humanity should not allow its self to be duped into conflict among yourselves.
Do not be drawn into confusing inner battles amongst yourselves with political parties, race, religion, gangs, etc. Do not allow the media to divert your attention from the primary bane that inflicts your lives by making you slaves to the system. Nor should you put your faith in the media as it is under the control of the same which control the same monetary system destroying life as we know it.


the people of the country had a dream and dreams inspired us to become great, we call upon all those true to themselves to see the nightmare for what it is and know you can awaken from it and set things right among the people here as well as those affected by the system world wide.

The dangers of a world government are real as we see with the current system.

Remember these words from the declaration of independence and let them echo through the known world that all people should be free and should rise against anything man puts before them to cause them trespass as a people.


We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security.

Originally Posted by TJTJ

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security.

Our government, in its infinite wisdom, has made it a crime to even talk about overthrowing the US government. The thing that MADE this country and the thing that makes it possible to change it when it no longer serves the people.

Who are the crackpots? The ones that see what's wrong? Or the ones that are content to go along with whatever the government takes away?

I think every state should secede. The state is supposed to be independent. The Fed is there just as a back up.

Originally Posted by KelJu

Horseshit! The constitution is about protecting the people from the government which is what the drafters had just fought their previous government over. Violating a person's fucking constitutional rights isn't manly. On the contrary, I think anyone who puts their faith and power into the hands of politicians is a pussy of epic proportions.

Since September 1st, 2011, almost as many people have died in this country from being struck by lightning as terrorist activities. Terrorism is a threat and should be dealt with, but fucking Jesus Christ, it's not worth throwing away your constitutional rights.

I suppose this is the catch 22... you'll never know how many (if any) terrorist plots were thwarted and prevented from occurring in the U.S. due to the proactive intervention of our national security agencies. It's difficult for people to measure the "positive" effectiveness of an effort when the result is a negative.

I certainly make no claim to be an expert on domestic terrorism in the U.S., but I have read several stories of terrorist plots and attempts being stifled by the effect implementation of our intelligence agencies and law enforcement.

We do know (and have suspected) for quite some time that terrorist organizations have long been looking for opportunities to employ a weapon of mass destruction on U.S. soil. They haven’t (yet) thanks to our government’s efforts to stop them.

Now I agree with you… the constitutional rights of the American People is one of the most sacred possessions we have as a nation. It’s what made us so awesome. But you missed my point.

This nation is steadily becoming a society of spoiled piglets suckling on Uncle Sam’s teats. We have collectively allowed, and even demanded that the government invade our and overtake our freedoms. We did this blindly in the name of our own self-serving agendas with the belief it would only negatively impact others than ourselves.

Well now the government has stepped it up a notch and suddenly these same hypocrites who so blindly endorsed the government’s invasion of OTHER people’s rights, suddenly take offense and cry for rebellion.

Like I said, it’s comical.

If you think waging another civil war is the answer then I would have to say you are utterly deceived by blind ambition. Make no mistake… this same government that passed these intrusive laws would not hesitate to do whatever it took to crush a rebellion.

No… I still believe this pervasive problem can be solved in the voting booth…. However, it will take a revolution of THOUGHT to change our elected aristocracy.

I don’t place my faith in politicians, however, I do still believe in our way of government. Democracy has and will always prevail so long as we can set aside our selfish differences and unite behind common reformation. That may be a bridge too far but it’s still something I believe in.

Charlie Chaplin final speech in The Great Dictator

Originally Posted by Witmaster

I suppose this is the catch 22... you'll never know how many (if any) terrorist plots were thwarted and prevented from occurring in the U.S. due to the proactive intervention of our national security agencies. It's difficult for people to measure the "positive" effectiveness of an effort when the result is a negative.

I certainly make no claim to be an expert on domestic terrorism in the U.S., but I have read several stories of terrorist plots and attempts being stifled by the effect implementation of our intelligence agencies and law enforcement.

We do know (and have suspected) for quite some time that terrorist organizations have long been looking for opportunities to employ a weapon of mass destruction on U.S. soil. They haven’t (yet) thanks to our government’s efforts to stop them.

Now I agree with you… the constitutional rights of the American People is one of the most sacred possessions we have as a nation. It’s what made us so awesome. But you missed my point.

This nation is steadily becoming a society of spoiled piglets suckling on Uncle Sam’s teats. We have collectively allowed, and even demanded that the government invade our and overtake our freedoms. We did this blindly in the name of our own self-serving agendas with the belief it would only negatively impact others than ourselves.

Well now the government has stepped it up a notch and suddenly these same hypocrites who so blindly endorsed the government’s invasion of OTHER people’s rights, suddenly take offense and cry for rebellion.

Like I said, it’s comical.

If you think waging another civil war is the answer then I would have to say you are utterly deceived by blind ambition. Make no mistake… this same government that passed these intrusive laws would not hesitate to do whatever it took to crush a rebellion.

No… I still believe this pervasive problem can be solved in the voting booth…. However, it will take a revolution of THOUGHT to change our elected aristocracy.

I don’t place my faith in politicians, however, I do still believe in our way of government. Democracy has and will always prevail so long as we can set aside our selfish differences and unite behind common reformation. That may be a bridge too far but it’s still something I believe in.

despite what the media claims there are not a large number of "intelligent" terrorists that want to sacrifice themselves in an act of cowardice that kills just about only the innocent. shouldering a weapon and fighting another "soldier" is what the overwhelming majority prefer. all of the people that have been caught in the US that have failed attempts at domestic terrorist acts where all short-bus material. making bombs is crazy easy and with the wide availability of electronics and wireless devices out on the market detonating them remotely is even easier. we used to make them out of R/C controllers/servos, a single throw switch, a battery and some model rocket igniters back in the 80's in middle school.

I can not think of a bigger waste of time that worrying about terrorism.

its up to the House to squash it or turn it into law